BajaNomad

help! information on palapa construction

yachtmerchant - 3-21-2005 at 09:18 AM

Hello to all,
I am new to this forum and have a qusetion. Where can i get information on building a palapa style home. I have worn the net out and only get a little info. Im certain that most Palaperos do not have web sites, but maybe someone here will point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance! YM

Bruce R Leech - 3-21-2005 at 09:30 AM

Welcome to Baja Nomad
talk to other people WHO have had them built for them. and decide if that is really what you want. there are many problems with them. one big problem is they are a real fire hazard and you cant git insurance on them. also they don't last that long and require a lot of maintenance. there are some architects that build theme also.

[Edited on 3-21-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

yachtmerchant - 3-21-2005 at 10:10 AM

Thanks Bruce. Im also looking into straw bale construction, perhaps with a smaller palapa outdoor living space. All help is appretiated and thank you for the welcome! YM

A picture is worth a thousand words...

Pompano - 3-21-2005 at 10:13 AM

yachtmerchant - 3-21-2005 at 10:19 AM

Point well taken! What are some other low cost building alternatives? Thanks! YM

Bruce R Leech - 3-21-2005 at 10:21 AM

we have an expert on straw bail construction here in Mulege. Roy at plia Ecomundo Knows it all . I don't have his email or website But I will git it for you.

Bruce R Leech - 3-21-2005 at 10:24 AM

here is the Link for Roy

http://home.earthlink.net/~rcmathews/

Natalie Ann - 3-21-2005 at 10:29 AM

A couple of interesting websites.... perhaps you could build your house of straw bale and put up a small palapa covered gazebo

http://www.tropicalshade.net/

http://www.escapeartist.com/OREQ6/Straw_Bale_House.html

yachtmerchant - 3-21-2005 at 11:03 AM

Many thanks to all who replied! YM

bajajudy - 3-21-2005 at 11:52 AM

One of the most important things to remember about straw bale houses is that you have to have a really good plumber....leaks are not good

Disagree!!!!!

Skeet/Loreto - 3-21-2005 at 01:13 PM

Sir: I must point out that my 35 years of Experience living in Loreto Baja is not anywhere as described.

My wife and I built 'Rancho Sonrisa" on the Beach North of Loreto That roof consisting of 13,000 properly prepared oja.s went through some real good storm, it is still there And I would strongly suggest that you go take a Look. It sets beween to american "Trophy Houses" that are Monstortsies.

My Palapa of 2,000 Sq Feet was built with 2 and 1/2 Feet into the Sand on the Beach, the Columns are 2 feet Thick. I used Durango Pine Beams setting on top of the inside columns.

In addition I built a 1500 Sq Ft. Palapa without any Metal or nails tied with Rawhide{Similiar to the Mormon church in Utah. It is still in good Shape.

I would strongly suggest that if you want to be different, use some Mexicano Craftman not have to worry about Architects who charge lots of money, look into a Palapa.
There have been very few Fires that I know about in Loreto except for the fire at Trupiu south of Loreto in a Trailer Park where the buildongs where touchingeach other.

Do not take my Word just go to Loreto and ask around.

Skeet/Loreto

I'd highly recommend...

mexpert - 3-21-2005 at 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
we have an expert on straw bail construction here in Mulege. Roy at plia Ecomundo Knows it all . I don't have his email or website But I will git it for you.
that you take a few deep breaths in Roy "the experts" structures before proceeding. PEE-U :barf:

Palapa house

Osprey - 3-21-2005 at 01:44 PM

Check out www.cobworks.com -- I just saw a house they are building with mud/straw (rammed earth) in the mountains near here.

Bob and Susan - 3-21-2005 at 02:02 PM

remember the story....

...and he huffed and puffed and blew the house down:lol::lol:

don't build junk.

Pompano - 3-21-2005 at 03:00 PM

This is Posada...it too burned because of a fire in grass roofs and sides..started in a hot water heater. There was over 1.3 million in damage..late 70's..burned VERY fast with people scrambling to get out with their lives. The wind spread it from rooftop to rooftop over the distance between. I lived above in my hilltop stonehome that had a thatched roof..I got a metal roof fast.

Anna's cafe at Santispac had a grass roof...it burned to the ground. A cafe in Mulege burned...grass roof. Jungle Jims burned...grass roof. And on..and on..

I have friends who have had bale homes in the past ... and I have visited them myself. Uh...stay in one for awhile first. Find out the pros and cons. My sense of smell is too good. The technology and theory is good ... they have been in use for over a hundred years in the Southwest.

yankeeirishman - 3-21-2005 at 04:08 PM

Are you to be out in the boonies? Or the near a town? Is this to be a just a camp or your home? If you just doing a summer thing for a month or two?I say go with your idea of palapa style camp. A home now?and I did my homework on this; straw bail construction is cheap and good, but you are limited to anyone with experience on this (if you are to be a owner builder with contract help). I have settled for concrete block construction. There is plenty of experienced helpers, and material. But now?.this house to be is in San Felipe, not the boonies.
Quote:
Originally posted by yachtmerchant
Hello to all,
I am new to this forum and have a qusetion. Where can i get information on building a palapa style home. I have worn the net out and only get a little info. Im certain that most Palaperos do not have web sites, but maybe someone here will point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance! YM

constr.

comitan - 3-21-2005 at 04:25 PM

Yankeeirishman, something for you ,I'm sure you allready know, build overhangs so that the sun never hits the walls if you want to be comfortable. And or save on electriic for A/C. That goes for anyone building and living in the Southern Baja in the Summertime. (Incl. S>F> its hot.)

Most all of the mountain ranchos

jrbaja - 3-21-2005 at 04:58 PM

have had palapa roofs for hundreds of years. Thay are still using them down here and there are some really good builders. We in fact are combining bamboo for the frame as well as oja roofing.
The reason they burn down so often is because there are drunken gringos under them that aren't smart enough to keep an eye on their barbecues!:lol:
Almost every time!!

Foam boards with wire grids...

Mexray - 3-21-2005 at 06:03 PM

have been discussed here before...there's an outfit up in Mexicali, I believe that makes the Styrofoam like panels with heavy wire grids on each side. You mechanically join them together with clamped steel rings - cut out your windows and doors - frame in the openings - then gunite each side to make a high 'R' value structure.

Don't remember the name of the Company that makes them in Mexico. This system has worked real well in 3rd world countries as a cheap way to manufacture housing. It's easier than cement blocks and goes up faster.

bajalou - 3-21-2005 at 06:12 PM

Mexray
Think you are talking about Tri-D-Panels

There are several other styrofoam form/panels for construction. also Rastra - a post-comsumer scrap plastic beams with channels in them for rebar and electric/plumbing. Put the walls of a good sized house up in a day or so. Then place the conduit etc and fill the whole thing with concrete. Stuco the outside and plaster the inside and it's up. This is manufactured in Mexicali also.

There are contractors familiar with all of these building materials here in San Felipe.

:biggrin:

Pompano - 3-21-2005 at 06:18 PM

Locals owning palapas don't have fires? I wonder where I and the bomberos have been fighting all these fires for over 30 years in the Mulege area? Hmmm...only two were in gringo-land...all the rest of the dozens that I attended were in local-land. Guess human carelessness knows no nationalities. I wonder why no recent new homes for Mexicans include an all palapa construction? :tumble:

Bruce R Leech - 3-21-2005 at 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mex ray
have been discussed here before...there's an outfit up in Mexicali, I believe that makes the Styrofoam like panels with heavy wire grids on each side. You mechanically join them together with clamped steel rings - cut out your windows and doors - frame in the openings - then gunite each side to make a high 'R' value structure.

Don't remember the name of the Company that makes them in Mexico. This system has worked real well in 3rd world countries as a cheap way to manufacture housing. It's easier than cement blocks and goes up faster.


the mice git in to these and destroy them fast.:no: you need to be careful to keep them patched.

yachtmerchant - 3-21-2005 at 08:14 PM

Bruce R Leech - 3-21-2005 at 08:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yachtmerchant

palapas

comitan - 3-21-2005 at 08:19 PM

The worst problem with palapas is termites, when you see little round holes in the stem and find a fine dust on your tables ther'e not going hungery. If you like tile look they have the corrugated panels now with 2 sheets and 1in. closed cell foam insulation between, fireproof and looks good.

yachtmerchant - 3-21-2005 at 08:24 PM

Wow, first of all thanks to all of you for your input, but i have to say i am overwhelmed and not a little more confused than when i started! We want to build a sustianable home we can use a few months out of the year for the next 4 or 5 years and when our daughter gets out of college, move there. I will admit that for all of the reading and researching i have done you could not fill a thimble with my true knowledge of building in this environment. One thing i do know is that i have a very modest budget. The Palapa is so desirable because of its out door living appeal and esthetics. I can see the benefits and downfalls of strawbale construction. What about stucco or concrete blocks or a combination of any of all of these? There must be a way! I hope some of all of you good folks can point me in some productive direction. Again Thank you all so very much and any and all responses will be greatly appretiated! ..... YM

Bruce R Leech - 3-21-2005 at 08:27 PM

I use cement Rock and steel in all my new construction it is cheaper and better than anything else in this claimant. straw bails and palms are only for temporary structures. in my opinion.

yachtmerchant - 3-21-2005 at 08:36 PM

Bruce,
Thanks for the response! What is the basic cost per square foot for this type of construction. Im looking at 1000 to 1200 Sq. Ft. of enclosed living space. Thanks in advance! YM

El Jefe - 3-21-2005 at 09:31 PM

We are building our house on the East Cape out of tridi panel. http://www.tridipanel.com/
It is made in Mexicali and available throughout Baja. The stuff is kind of like straw bale, which we considered strongly, in that it has an insulator core covered with stucco or concrete. It goes up quickly like straw bale, and is very strong. I can't speak for the ecologicalness of the foam core, but of all the available building supplies around it looked the best for us.
The website is for a guy selling it in Vista, CA. He is very helpful if you have questions.

bajajudy - 3-21-2005 at 09:48 PM

When we built our second floor bathroom, we used the tri-panels. Our guy threw cemento at it until it was full and then stuco-ed it and it is as strong as bloques. It is also supposed to be a better insulator than blocks.
Most of the new construction here uses it.
I like palapa roofs...they breathe. Ours is what they call a shade palapa. Not real expensive so if they blow away no biggy and the rest of our house is cemento so the fire hazard is reduced.
WE all have opinions.

El Jefe - 3-21-2005 at 09:59 PM

Judy, we should hook up.
Paula and I will be staying at the Brisa del Mar trailer park while Ian builds the house out at TerraNova. We will be there in May and would love to meet you. Tom

Yankee

Skeet/Loreto - 3-22-2005 at 08:43 AM

Juan a member of this board is building a cinderblock Home in Loreto. you might u2u him and ask His Opinion.

Pom; While I was in Loreto there were only 2 Fires that I remember, one being downtown next to the Cafe Ole another outside of the downtown Area.
I do not count Truipi as that was anAccident getting ready to Happen!!

To Each His Own; I and my Mexicans friends built "Rancho Sonrisa" . I used Chlordane on theOjas, so no Termites, Used Palm Posts brought out of the Canyons by Mule, used Bull Hides from San Javier for Rawhide, Quarried rock from near the Rock Paintings near San
Nicholas,
It had 67 hand Made window made by "Bianco", 6 Fans so I never had to be concerned about A/c.
Stained glass made by a little old couple in Villa constitution, Cabinets hand made.

It was a Dream and an Adventure.

"Thats what it was all about"!!!!!

Skeet/Loreto

yachtmerchant - 3-22-2005 at 09:21 AM

Thanks to all and please keep the ideas and information coming. You guys are awesome and i have learned more in the last 3 day about this process than i have searching the web for 3 weeks! ... YM

Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Juan a member of this board is building a cinderblock Home in Loreto. you might u2u him and ask His Opinion.

Pom; While I was in Loreto there were only 2 Fires that I remember, one being downtown next to the Cafe Ole another outside of the downtown Area.
I do not count Truipi as that was anAccident getting ready to Happen!!

To Each His Own; I and my Mexicans friends built "Rancho Sonrisa" . I used Chlordane on theOjas, so no Termites, Used Palm Posts brought out of the Canyons by Mule, used Bull Hides from San Javier for Rawhide, Quarried rock from near the Rock Paintings near San
Nicholas,
It had 67 hand Made window made by "Bianco", 6 Fans so I never had to be concerned about A/c.
Stained glass made by a little old couple in Villa constitution, Cabinets hand made.

It was a Dream and an Adventure.

"Thats what it was all about"!!!!!

Skeet/Loreto



this is absolutely the worst Ida I have herd of. type in Chlordane on Goggle and read some of the articles. I hope you worn people when they come to visit you.

Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 10:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yachtmerchant
Bruce,
Thanks for the response! What is the basic cost per square foot for this type of construction. Im looking at 1000 to 1200 Sq. Ft. of enclosed living space. Thanks in advance! YM

I really cant give you a figure on that there are to many variables in the quality of construction such as the finish work etc.

yankeeirishman - 3-22-2005 at 11:11 AM

First of all: thanks Skeet/Loreto.
Secondary to yachtmerchant: do what I did....go to the El Dorado Ranch (not the ocean side) with a day and a camera! Stop by all the construction sites, ask a lot of questions (take a translator if you don?t speak Native), take pictures of techniques, and do walk troughs.
Then go to the supply houses (of the area you site is) and ask for prices of materials, they are very happy to do this (management-not a clerk). Vast amount of same material can be bargain to a lower price and free delivery.
Then.... you consult this forum and the Web for building techniques. My only prohibit on construction at Campos Octillio (San Felipe) is not to exceed 14 feet in height. Check you restrictions at your site!!!
The bottom line for learning (for me) on how to proceed on building a house in Baja: this forum and a day at the El Dorado! I have learned more from the good fellows and ladies here, more than anywhere.
I have started to process of building our home here at the campos. First thing I did was to make sure that I could live with the land deal we made. We can! Second thing is to tow an old trailer to our site, to live in during construction. I was to do this during Easter. Thanks to the weather up here at Sacramento?no go. Third phase is to start construction! Email me if I can help you with any thing.
But remember?most here on this forum are a lot more experienced than I am at this La Casa stuff. They will help all that they can, just be crystal clear and detailed with your questions
One request that I have of you: please do not use a leach septic system at you future home. All the waste will just travel to that blue water you swim in!

Very good Advice

Skeet/Loreto - 3-22-2005 at 01:20 PM

You know you can "Do it yourself" or you can pay others to do it for You.

I have never agreed with Canadians or americans going to Baja using their Skills and making all the Money instead of using the Mexicanos and doing it their Way.
Just a matter of Opinion.

Chordane applied in the proper amount the Proper Manner will safely take care of the Termites.

There are many , many homes in the Us that had it used. To Date I have not heard or Seen any Problems from its Proper Use.{It is also real good for those Large Ants on the Beach.

Live Life and enjoy Baja, Do not be Afraid, Life is too much fun.

Skeet/Loreto

Good Luck

Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 05:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
You know you can "Do it yourself" or you can pay others to do it for You.

I have never agreed with Canadians or americans going to Baja using their Skills and making all the Money instead of using the Mexicanos and doing it their Way.
Just a matter of Opinion.

Chordane applied in the proper amount the Proper Manner will safely take care of the Termites.

There are many , many homes in the Us that had it used. To Date I have not heard or Seen any Problems from its Proper Use.{It is also real good for those Large Ants on the Beach.

Live Life and enjoy Baja, Do not be Afraid, Life is too much fun.

Skeet/Loreto

Good Luck


that is why they outlawed it 20 years ago:lol:oh well it only has a 20 year half life. but you are right about one thang it kills Bugs to.want to by some DDT?

Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 05:46 PM

Why Are We Concerned About Chlordane?
Everyone in the United States has been exposed to low levels of chlordane due to its wide spread use. Because chlordane is bioaccumulative, it builds up in our food chain and becomes more concentrated as it moves up our food chain to humans and other wildlife. Fish consumption advisories for some species are in effect for chlordane in the Great Lakes ecosystem. Chlordane remains in our food supply because it was commonly used on crops in the 1960's and 1970's.

What harmful effects can Chlordane have on us?
Likely causes cancer and may cause liver cancer
Can cause behavioral disorders in children if they were exposed before birth or while nursing
Harms the endocrine system, nervous system, digestive system, and liver
How are we exposed to Chlordane?
Infants may be exposed through breast milk
By eating contaminated fish and shellfish
Unborn children exposed through the mother's blood stream
Highest exposure from living in homes that were treated with chlordane for termites
Where can Chlordane be found?
Current uses:

Fire ant control in power transformers
Potential Sources to our Environment:

Found in particles in the water column
Other treated soils
Soil surrounding wooden structures controlled for termites
Water sediments
Transport by atmosphere from other regions; deposited in rain, snow, dust

Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 06:06 PM

Homes Remain Contaminated For Decades
Chlordane is such a highly toxic and persistent chemical that homes treated 20-30 years ago are still showing unsafe levels of chlordane in the indoor air. The problem occurs because the hundreds of gallons of chlordane underneath the home are slowly evaporating, rising through cracks in the foundation or around plumbing pipes and entering the home. One of the first studies to find there was a problem came in the 1970's when the U.S. Air Force randomly tested over 500 apartments and housing units of its airmen. Results showed approximately 75% of the units tested contained chlordane in the air and over 5% were above the National Academy of Sciences "safety guidelines" of 5 micrograms per cubic meter of air (1).

Unfortunately, this is turning out not to be an isolated case. Further studies by the New Jersey Department of Environmental Regulation and other agencies have found similar results in hundreds of homes in New Jersey and New York. Of great concern, when testing 64 homes built before 1980, researchers found more than 30% of the homes contained chlordane levels above the 5 microgram safety limit set by the National Academy of Sciences (2).

Illnesses Linked To Chlordane Home Exposure
There are now several university studies showing even so-called acceptable levels of chlordane in indoor air can cause respiratory and neurological problems. These are outlined by sections below:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Families in apartment complex treated with chlordane show increases in sinusitis, bronchitis, migraines, cough & anemia
JOURNAL: Bulletin of Environmental Contamination Toxicology, 39:903 (1987)

A study of 261 people who were either living or had lived in homes with higher air chlordane levels were found to have nearly three-times more respiratory illnesses, including sinusitis (infection of the sinuses) and bronchitis. The study, conducted at the School of Public Health, University of Illinois, also found other illnesses significantly more often in the chlordane homes. These included chronic cough, anemia, neuritis, ovarian/uterine disease and skin disorders. The migraine headaches, which was the worst acute symptom found, was occurring in 22% of people living in the higher level chlordane homes.

An important point of this study is that researchers divided the 261 people into three groups based on the level of chlordane found in their homes. These included:

LOW EXPOSURE (under 1 microgram of chlordane per cubic meter of air in the home)
MEDIUM EXPOSURE (1-5 micrograms of chlordane per cubic meter of air in the home)
HIGH EXPOSURE (over 5 micrograms of chlordane per cubic meter of air in the home)
Separating people into these groups is done in order to look for what is called a "dose-response" effect, which strongly suggests that the chemical is in fact causing the illnesses. A dose-response effect means that as the amount of chlordane in the air increases, we would also see a corresponding increase in health problems. This is in fact, exactly what the researchers stated they had found. In conclusion, Dr. Clark stated,

"The finding of a dose-response relationship between the indoor air concentrations of chlordane and three self-reported chronic health conditions (migraine, sinusitis, and bronchitis) suggests that chlordane could have chronic human health impacts. The association between chlordane and migraine and bronchitis is consistent with previous reports of these symptoms in chlordane poisoning or incident cases. Aplastic and acute refractory megaloblastic anemia and effects on the female reproductive system have also been associated with chlordane and/or heptachlor exposure. In our study, half the homes judged to have had a proper termiticide application had detectable air levels of chlordane, an average of 2.7 micrograms per cubic meter, months to years following the last application... The United States Environmental Protection Agency has often considered lifetime cancer risks exceeding one in a million as unacceptable. An air level of less than 0.1 micrograms per cubic meter, which appears unachievable, may need to be required to have cancer risks within an acceptable range. On August 11, 1987, on the basis of new evaluations regarding the safety of the cyclodiene termiticides, EPA announced the cancellation of virtually all termiticide uses of chlordane, heptachlor, aldrin and dieldrin."

This study was reported by Dr. J. Milton Clark, Ph.D.
School of Pubic Health, University of Illinois

Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 06:07 PM

Information on how the now banned pesticide chlordane is still harming the health of millions of people in the United States and other countries today.

Doctors and scientists who are knowledgeable on the chlordane problem state millions of adults and children are becoming sick by living in homes built before April, 1988 (the period when chlordane, originally developed by Monsanto, was allowed to be used). Chlordane contaminates the air of over 30 million U.S. homes by diffusion through concrete flooring - ceiling drywall - or outgassing from previously treated indoor areas. Documented health problems can include child cancers, neuroblastoma, leukemia, chronic infections, bronchitis, asthma, sinusitis, infertility, neurological disorders, aggression and depression.

Unfortunately, due to the lack of obvious odor or easily administered test, most occupants are unaware this pesticide is in the indoor air they are breathing hour after hour.

By Wayne Sinclair, M.D.
Allergy, Asthma & Immunology
Richard W. Pressinger, M.Ed.
Tampa, Florida

Chlordane Research Index
Click title below for more information

The Chlordane Problem
Why scientists consider chlordane a health threat surpassing cigarettes and radon -
What is chlordane? - When was the mistake realized -
How widespread a problem? -Which homes affected?
Immune problems worse in chlordane treated homes
Sinusitis, bronchitis, migraines, cough and anemia higher in chlordane homes
Immune system damage & autoimmune disorders
The body's cancer fighting cells are paralyzed by chlordane and how chlordane can literally make the body's immune cells attack healthy tissue by mistake (called autoimmunity)
Hidden neurological problems found
Chlordane suspected of causing chronic fatigue, depression, anger, memory and concentration problems in adults living in a chlordane treated apartment complex
Asthma and allergies higher in chlordane homes
As chlordane has shown strong immune damaging potential
Asthma and allergies are an expected consequence.
Neuroblastoma and leukemia higher
Children develop blood disorders and neuroblastoma following chlordane treatments in the home
Liver damage and chlordane
Chlordane shows the ability to cause liver damage at low exposure levels
Male and female infertility problems
Research shows chlordane can cause infertility and sperm damage
High school closes due to chlordane treatment
Teachers and students complained for 4 years before chlordane was found to be the cause of illnesses in this Virginia High School.
Overweight is a symptom of chlordane exposure
Surprising increases in body weight have been found to occur in test animals exposed to chlordane.
Researchers are not sure if this is due to the ability of chlordane to alter hormones or chlordane's ability to damage brain centers controlling body weight.
Chlordane & Dursban Air Test Results
This table summarizes eight different indoor air testing projects by the U.S. Air Force and Governmental Agencies of over 1000 U.S. homes. Pesticides sampled include 6 chlordane test projects and 2 Dursban test projects. These test results clearly show how serious and widespread the chlordane indoor air problem is in pre-1988 homes.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

75% of U.S. Homes Contaminated
with Chlordane
New research shows that people living in homes built before April of 1988 are most likely breathing the pesticide chlordane each minute they are in the house. In fact, research by the U.S. Air Force and the New Jersey Department of Environmental Regulation has found in tests of over 1000 homes, that approximately 75% contain chlordane in the indoor air and 7% are over the maximum safe levels according to National Academy of Science (NAS) guidelines (1). These figures are suspected of being the same throughout the U.S.

Chlordane's History

Chlordane was the pesticide used to prevent or eliminate termites during the 1950's, 60's, 70's and 80's. However, after many reports of serious illness among both adults and children following its application and links to cancer in animals, chlordane was finally banned by the EPA in March of 1988. Unfortunately, the ban did not take place until over 30 million homes throughout the U.S. had been treated. Concerns in Florida are even greater because of the increased termite problem and the fact that research shows chlordane is higher in homes built on sandy soils.

Most homeowners are unaware that just before the concrete slab was poured for their home's foundation, a pesticide company had come in and saturated the soil with 100 gallons of chlordane per 1000 square feet of area. People were literally building their homes on top of a toxic chemical dump. The public was reassured by the pesticide industry and entomologists that this was a safe procedure and that the chemical would not enter into the home because of the barrier provided by the cement foundation. However, this turned out not to be the case.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Homes Remain Contaminated For Decades
Chlordane is such a highly toxic and persistent chemical that homes treated 20-30 years ago are still showing unsafe levels of chlordane in the indoor air. The problem occurs because the hundreds of gallons of chlordane underneath the home are slowly evaporating, rising through cracks in the foundation or around plumbing pipes and entering the home. One of the first studies to find there was a problem came in the 1970's when the U.S. Air Force randomly tested over 500 apartments and housing units of its airmen. Results showed approximately 75% of the units tested contained chlordane in the air and over 5% were above the National Academy of Sciences "safety guidelines" of 5 micrograms per cubic meter of air (1).

Unfortunately, this is turning out not to be an isolated case. Further studies by the New Jersey Department of Environmental Regulation and other agencies have found similar results in hundreds of homes in New Jersey and New York. Of great concern, when testing 64 homes built before 1980, researchers found more than 30% of the homes contained chlordane levels above the 5 microgram safety limit set by the National Academy of Sciences (2).

Illnesses Linked To Chlordane Home Exposure
There are now several university studies showing even so-called acceptable levels of chlordane in indoor air can cause respiratory and neurological problems. These are outlined by sections below:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Families in apartment complex treated with chlordane show increases in sinusitis, bronchitis, migraines, cough & anemia
JOURNAL: Bulletin of Environmental Contamination Toxicology, 39:903 (1987)

A study of 261 people who were either living or had lived in homes with higher air chlordane levels were found to have nearly three-times more respiratory illnesses, including sinusitis (infection of the sinuses) and bronchitis. The study, conducted at the School of Public Health, University of Illinois, also found other illnesses significantly more often in the chlordane homes. These included chronic cough, anemia, neuritis, ovarian/uterine disease and skin disorders. The migraine headaches, which was the worst acute symptom found, was occurring in 22% of people living in the higher level chlordane homes.

An important point of this study is that researchers divided the 261 people into three groups based on the level of chlordane found in their homes. These included:

LOW EXPOSURE (under 1 microgram of chlordane per cubic meter of air in the home)
MEDIUM EXPOSURE (1-5 micrograms of chlordane per cubic meter of air in the home)
HIGH EXPOSURE (over 5 micrograms of chlordane per cubic meter of air in the home)
Separating people into these groups is done in order to look for what is called a "dose-response" effect, which strongly suggests that the chemical is in fact causing the illnesses. A dose-response effect means that as the amount of chlordane in the air increases, we would also see a corresponding increase in health problems. This is in fact, exactly what the researchers stated they had found. In conclusion, Dr. Clark stated,

"The finding of a dose-response relationship between the indoor air concentrations of chlordane and three self-reported chronic health conditions (migraine, sinusitis, and bronchitis) suggests that chlordane could have chronic human health impacts. The association between chlordane and migraine and bronchitis is consistent with previous reports of these symptoms in chlordane poisoning or incident cases. Aplastic and acute refractory megaloblastic anemia and effects on the female reproductive system have also been associated with chlordane and/or heptachlor exposure. In our study, half the homes judged to have had a proper termiticide application had detectable air levels of chlordane, an average of 2.7 micrograms per cubic meter, months to years following the last application... The United States Environmental Protection Agency has often considered lifetime cancer risks exceeding one in a million as unacceptable. An air level of less than 0.1 micrograms per cubic meter, which appears unachievable, may need to be required to have cancer risks within an acceptable range. On August 11, 1987, on the basis of new evaluations regarding the safety of the cyclodiene termiticides, EPA announced the cancellation of virtually all termiticide uses of chlordane, heptachlor, aldrin and dieldrin."

This study was reported by Dr. J. Milton Clark, Ph.D.
School of Pubic Health, University of Illinois (3).

Home Chlordane Testing Information

Return To Chlordane Research Index



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Immune System Damage & Autoimmune Problems
JOURNAL: Archives of Environmental Health, 43(5):349-352 (1988)
An excellent test to determine how well a person's immune system is functioning is called "proliferative response." This test measures how fast a person's immune system cells multiply in order to eliminate invading bacteria or viruses. In several different tests of proliferative response, conducted at the Southern Illinois School of Medicine, it was found that people living in chlordane treated homes had immune system cells that multiplied only about half as fast as immune system cells of people not exposed to chlordane. (This provides an explanation for the increase in infections shown in the previous study.) In another immune system test conducted by the same scientists, eleven of twelve chlordane exposed people were found to have a condition known as autoimmunity. This is where the person's own immune system mistakenly attacks their own self, which the researchers stated can then result in a variety of other illnesses.




Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 06:09 PM

Neuroblastoma & Leukemia After Chlordane Exposure
JOURNAL: Teratogenesis, Carcinogenesis, and Mutagenesis, 7:527-540 (1987)
Chlordane has also been linked to causing neuroblastoma and leukemia in children along with other blood abnormalities. Severe anemia and leukemia developed in a baby girl following home termite treatment. The case was settled in the California Superior Court (1975). Five cases of brain cancer were also reported to develop in children following prenatal or postnatal chlordane exposure.

A 1987 study at the School of Public Health, University of Illinois Medical Center, reported 25 new cases of various blood problems with the majority occurring following chlordane termite treatment. These included more examples of leukemias and anemias (8).

In a study reported by Velsicol (the manufacturer of chlordane), it was found that when monkeys were exposed for 90 days to air chlordane levels of 100 micrograms per cubic meter of air, they were more likely to develop a condition known as leukopenia (9), which means their disease fighting white blood cells dropped to a dangerously low number. Leukopenia often predisposes an individual to increased colds, flu, and infections. Levels of 250 micrograms per cubic meter of air chlordane have been reported in some chlordane treated homes, which is two and one-half times higher than the level causing leukopenia in the animals.

Chlordane exposure has also been linked to causing an increase in leukemias among agricultural workers. 1,084 death certificates of leukemia cases among Nebraska residents during the years 1957-1974 were matched with 2,168 deaths from other causes. These farmers exhibited a considerably higher risk of acute leukemia in counties where corn was grown in large quantities (10). Similarly, death certificates from Iowa for 1,675 white males over the age of 30 years who died of leukemia were investigated for possible causes of the cancer. Iowa farmers had a higher risk for lymphatic leukemia in counties where there was extensive production of corn and soy bean. There was also an association of death from leukemia with the amount of corn produced per acre. During the period of these studies, one of the major agricultural uses of chlordane was on corn crops.

JOURNAL TITLE: Leukemias and Blood Dyscrasias Following Exposure to Chlordane and Heptachlor

Home Chlordane Testing Procedures

Return To List of Illnesses Caused by Chlordane



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Liver Damage Results from Chlordane Exposure
SOURCE: Science News, November 24, 1984.
The human liver appears to also be vulnerable to damage from exposure to chlordane. After a 48 year-old woman had her home treated for termites with chlordane, she developed symptoms of nausea, sore throat and chest discomfort. Her medical history showed no signs of previous health problems. Blood tests found low levels of chlordane in the woman's blood. Indoor air testing of the woman's home was then performed which found high airborne levels of heptachlor (a breakdown contaminant of chlordane).

Follow-up blood tests of the woman, conducted monthly, showed abnormal liver function indicators that "track exactly with the levels of pesticide in her blood," stated Dr. Alexander, who as a physician had been clinically involved in the case. Even though the levels of heptachlorepoxide (the form stored in the body) never exceeded 3 parts per billion in blood, Dr. Alexander stated, "We're now able to say that she has a mild chemical hepatitis-representing liver damage, caused by these pesticides.."

Home Chlordane Testing Procedures

Return To List of Illnesses Caused by Chlordane



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Male and Female Infertility Increasing Past 50 Years
Evidence Chlordane Could Be Part of the Problem
Several biological problems affecting the male testicles have been occurring with greater frequency over the past 50 years. The summary of the problem, which appeared in the 1993 journal, Environmental Health Perspectives(13), discussed the observed rise in testicular cancer and the medical conditions hypospadias and cryptorchidism, as well as the apparent declining sperm count among the overall male population. Hypospadias is when the testicles do not descend and cryptorchidism is when the opening to the penis appears on the underside of the penis.

According to the researchers at the Statistical Research Unit, University of Copenhagen, Denmark, cancer of the male testicles has increased over 3-fold from 1940 to 1980. The frequency of hypospadias (the opening of the penis on the underside) in England has doubled from 0.15% in 1964 to 0.36% in 1983. Similar increases were also reported from Sweden and Hungary. Recent British data also detected a near doubling of cryptorchidism. This problem has risen from 1.6% of the boys born in the 1950's to 2.9% born in the late 1970's.

The researchers also performed a detailed survey of the international literature on sperm and semen levels published between 1930 and 1991. Compiling information from over 61 papers and 14,947 males, indicated a significant decline in average sperm density form 113 million per milliliter in 1940 to 66 million per milliliter in 1990. The mean semen volume also declined from 3.40 milliliters to 2.75 milliliters (a nearly 20% drop). This means that the total sperm count decreased even more than that expressed by sperm density.

These figures show that men are producing only about half as much sperm per ejaculation today as they did in the 1940's. This should generate concern as research has shown that as sperm count decreases, there is an increase in the risk of birth defects, miscarriages and general problems with the child. Therefore, these figures suggest that we should be observing a greater number of health and neurological problems among our children due to the connection between lower sperm count and lower sperm quality resulting from exposure of the male population to widespread environmental chemicals.

In conclusion the researchers stated,

"Recent data clearly indicate that the semen quality has markedly decreased during the period 1938-1990, and concomitantly the incidence of some genitourinary abnormalities including hypospadias, maldescent, and cancer has increased. Such a remarkable increment in the occurrence of gonadal abnormalities over a relatively short period of time is more likely to be due to environmental rather than genetic factors. Generally, it is believed that pollution, smoking, alcohol, and sexually transmitted diseases play a role."

Because of the widespread contamination of chlordane in American homes (the chemical emits vapors for decades after treatment) and its link with causing abnormalities in blood and childhood blood and brain cancer, Dr. David Ozonoff, of the Boston School of Public Health, stated there is an "urgent need for legislation creating a national program for monitoring homes known to have been treated to detect persistent contamination with these highly dangerous pesticides."

This persistent exposure to the U.S. population raises serious concerns regarding the effects of the chemical upon male and female fertility. Therefore, it is important to look at the research that addresses this issue.



Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 06:15 PM

before it was outlawed Chlordane was labeled for subsoil treatment only. never to be used on any part of a house exposed to air.

I hope this will stop at least some people from using it .it is not worth it give me the bugs any day over that.:no:

All Talk and no Facts.

Skeet/Loreto - 3-22-2005 at 07:21 PM

Please furnish the names and Cities and Case of those socalled Deaths- Provable or jijust Scare Tatics>

he I am at 73 most of the time people think I am still in my50"s. Slep under my Chlordane treated Palapa for 18 years.

Where is the Beef?

If as suggested in those reports were true there would be 20 Thousand law Suits as the Asbestos thing.

No Proof as yet and I hope to live til I am 105

Skeet/Loreto

Bruce R Leech - 3-22-2005 at 07:49 PM

every thang I have posted are facts, taken from the AMA website there are hundreds of other articles and I could not find one that was positive for the kind of use you are doing the point is if you are old and stubborn and cant read the label that is your business go ahead . what I take exception to is you advising other people to take chances with there lives and the lives of there Friends and family.
:yes:

yankeeirishman - 3-22-2005 at 10:41 PM

Why Are We Concerned About Chlordane? I am not! Say...what are these dark soft spots in my throat?! Chlordane warnings? Hell....add up a few hundred thousand septic leach systems ....

Correction

Skeet/Loreto - 3-23-2005 at 08:13 AM

I did not advise anyone to use anything. I stated "How I used the Stuff" in my Palapa!

I know How to read and I know How to use those things and at the time I was not very "Old'.

I would think that you are too "Young" to know the difference in a goodly amount of BS put out by some Liberals/Enviors Nuts.


there have been many things taken off the Market because a bunch of Nuts gpt enough Power to force the Issue{Political]

The Stuff was used for years below the Ground for Sub-Terra Protection.
Where are the Millions of Lawsuits from the Thousands and Thousands of People who have been exposed.?

Yes I am Old but I am not so Old that I cannot tell the difference in an Envior Nut Posting of Scare tactics.

I bet you are Afraid to use a Cell Phone as you may get Radiated!!

Come on Bruce: Let each person read the label and make up their own Mind .

It is referred to as "Responsibility for your own Acts"

Skeet/Loreto
"The Old Man"



Anonymous - 3-23-2005 at 09:10 AM

You know...we used this stuff too on our rental housing back in the late 60's. I am still alive and healthy. So far. Wait until the subject of Acetone comes up! Or how bout the micro dust from synthetic rubber tires we drive our cars on, laying about the road? My favorite is the fumes of gasoline...enriched with cancer starters. No. I am not an environmental nut, just pointing out that there are all sorts of material and chemicals that have negative properties I think you both are right if you think about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I did not advise anyone to use anything. I stated "How I used the Stuff" in my Palapa!

I know How to read and I know How to use those things and at the time I was not very "Old'.

I would think that you are too "Young" to know the difference in a goodly amount of BS put out by some Liberals/Enviors Nuts.


there have been many things taken off the Market because a bunch of Nuts gpt enough Power to force the Issue{Political]

The Stuff was used for years below the Ground for Sub-Terra Protection.
Where are the Millions of Lawsuits from the Thousands and Thousands of People who have been exposed.?

Yes I am Old but I am not so Old that I cannot tell the difference in an Envior Nut Posting of Scare tactics.

I bet you are Afraid to use a Cell Phone as you may get Radiated!!

Come on Bruce: Let each person read the label and make up their own Mind .

It is referred to as "Responsibility for your own Acts"

Skeet/Loreto
"The Old Man"



Anonymous was me!

yankeeirishman - 3-23-2005 at 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
You know...we used this stuff too on our rental housing back in the late 60's. I am still alive and healthy. So far. Wait until the subject of Acetone comes up! Or how bout the micro dust from synthetic rubber tires we drive our cars on, laying about the road? My favorite is the fumes of gasoline...enriched with cancer starters. No. I am not an environmental nut, just pointing out that there are all sorts of material and chemicals that have negative properties I think you both are right if you think about it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I did not advise anyone to use anything. I stated "How I used the Stuff" in my Palapa!

I know How to read and I know How to use those things and at the time I was not very "Old'.

I would think that you are too "Young" to know the difference in a goodly amount of BS put out by some Liberals/Enviors Nuts.


there have been many things taken off the Market because a bunch of Nuts gpt enough Power to force the Issue{Political]

The Stuff was used for years below the Ground for Sub-Terra Protection.
Where are the Millions of Lawsuits from the Thousands and Thousands of People who have been exposed.?

Yes I am Old but I am not so Old that I cannot tell the difference in an Envior Nut Posting of Scare tactics.

I bet you are Afraid to use a Cell Phone as you may get Radiated!!

Come on Bruce: Let each person read the label and make up their own Mind .

It is referred to as "Responsibility for your own Acts"

Skeet/Loreto
"The Old Man"



yachtmerchant - 3-25-2005 at 07:37 PM

Bruce R Leech - 3-25-2005 at 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yachtmerchant


I agree

construction techniques

yachtmerchant - 3-25-2005 at 07:53 PM

Thank you to all who have replied to my original post. I have learned a lot about construction methods in Baja, i have also learned a lot about colordane(sp?) and a lot of other interesting but relatively diverse (if not irrelevant) issues, none of which i do not appretiate, but a lot of which has nothing to do with my original query. So now that everyone has aired out their respective positions, is there someone here who can give me information about the per square footage cost of concrete block structures or bale structures, palapa structures or any combination of these. Im talking a 1200 sq ft dwelling with an outdoor living/cooking space and the typical amenities i.e. cooking stove, power, refridgeration etc. I understand there are many variables but i seem to get a lot of advice but a lot of "non" answers as well, not that i do not appretiate any and all input. I want to build a dwelling about 1200 sq ft with a bedroom and a bathroom/shower, with an outdoor kitchen and living area, with septic, solar or whatever and need concrete input on the guesstimated cost. Again i offer my thanks for the responses in the past and thanks in advance for what you may be willing to share with me now. Saludos.. jim

Bruce R Leech - 3-25-2005 at 08:09 PM

that is what makes this forum so much fun you git your questions answered and a Lot moor. we all love Baja or we wouldn't be here. you will git accustomed to it and enjoy like the rest of us. Skeet Loreto is a Nice man we just disagree on the pesticide thing he writs some really good posts on this forum and I hope I git a chance to meet both of you some day. don't give up, hang in there. good luck on your project.

construction techniques.....

yankeeirishman - 3-25-2005 at 09:41 PM

Welcome to the Brady Bunch Show! You learned more about people than houses, didn?t you! Here?s a draft of my La Casa I plan to do at Campo Ocotillo. The main living area will be about 1300 sq feet. I plan to construct this as an early 1900s style adobe. No thrills. It?s at about 25k. I am doing a lot of the construction with hired Mexican help. All materials will be bought locally. If you wish to see the final detail prints on this, email me sometime next month.

yachtmerchant - 3-26-2005 at 05:48 AM

Yank
thank you, the house design looks great and i would like to learn more about your project. Thanks to everyont that have responded. Its all good! .... jim

yankeeirishman - 3-26-2005 at 08:50 AM

Oh thanks Pompano! Now I'll have to call it the Nipple House! As soon as you said what it looked like, I saw it too. Perhaps I wasnt thinking housing as I was drawing:lol:

Palapa and construction costs

latitude26n - 3-26-2005 at 07:35 PM

Yatchmerchant-
Here's a photo of one reason we don't put palapa over our main living quarters. But the main reason is the huge amount of dirt that filters through the leaves in our windy/dusty location. Neither is something I want to find in my bed every night.
Your location is a variable in your construcion cost. We have to add another 30% to the cost of materials for our location to cover the delivery. We're outside of any big towns and have 30 mile of bad dirt road and the truck drivers have gotten wise. Our ballpark construction cost is $35 dollars/s.f. for "Obra Negra" which means building shell only. No fixtures or finish work. This is for block with foam/cement roof and does not include the "pasta" coat (final stucco finish which can add a few more thousand), underground water storage out of block and cement, septic, solar system and water pumping, vinyl windows, property walls and fences. Tallying up all of this stuff is an ongoing process.

yachtmerchant - 3-26-2005 at 08:41 PM

Latitude,
This is good stuff and i thank you for the response. What do you think the finished cost will be for you? Where we are there is good hard road access and utilities are onsite. I understand what you are saying about the palapa over the main structure. our rough draft of the Casa call for a two bedroom, one bath stucco/adobe structure with a palapa structure enclosing an outdoor kitchen and living area. Are we going wrong with the outdoor kitchen? This is a basic set up, stove, fridge,sink and some workable counter/bar space. This would need to have an enclosure for those times when an enclosure is essential. Do you have reccommendations for the enclosere? we were thinking of a short wall with a palapa roof that could be enclosed with some type of screening. What say you? I truely appretiate all of your help! Saludos! .. jim

constr.

comitan - 3-26-2005 at 08:49 PM

My house has an outdoor kitchen along with indoor we built the oudoor for summer cooking, as it turns out it was alway to windy to use the burners we do use the oven. We have friends that have a totally outdoor kitchen they had to build a wall to be able to use the stove. It gets cold even in the Baja to go to an outside kitchen in the morning to make coffee and breakfast.

outdoor kitchen

latitude26n - 3-27-2005 at 07:05 PM

I agree with Comitan. I'd put the stove, fridge, dishes and food storage inside where they can be sealed up more effectively (from dirt and the everpresent ants). But then, I've got a thing about ants. Tarantulas and scorpions I can live with but I really hate ants in my food!

As Comitan also mentioned, there are times that you don't want to deal with the elements when dining so I'd also have a small eating counter or bar indoors. Then you can make a spacious outdoor BBQing and dining area outdoors without screens.

Another tip is you can't have enough shaded areas. This is where we enjoy the palapa. Be generous with the shaded areas off of your house, garage etc, and you'll maximize the use of your property.

kill kill kill! I love to kill!

yankeeirishman - 3-27-2005 at 08:09 PM

Hey....try this for your aunts...er ants!
There are two ways to kill ants. The first is to dehydrate them by laying out piles of instant grits ( a corn product usually located in the cereal section of the grocery store) at the point of entry and along their trail. They will think of the grits as a food source and consume the pellets. The grits will in turn absorb moisture from the ant's body, thus killing it (instant grits are specially formulated to absorb water more rapidly that regular grits, thus they are more effective). The second method to kill ants is to feed them a mixture of 1 part active dry yeast, 2 parts molasses, and 1 part sugar. They will be attracted to the sugar in the mixture and will eat it readily. Once consumed the yeast will produce gas in the ant, and because they can't expel the gas, it will kill them.

Another method of elimination involves the elimination of the nest. If you can find the nest, you can try pouring boiling water over the nest. If that isn't sufficient, you can try adding cayenne pepper to the boiling water, or using citrus extracts. If you have multiple nests, you could dig up a bucket of ants from one nest and dump it on another nest. Ants are very territorial, and they will readily hunt and kill invading colonies

Juan

Juan - 3-28-2005 at 01:35 PM

The contractor who did the "black construction" (primarily roof and walls) on my house in Loreto told me a "good palapa roof" should contain approximately 40 ojas per square meter.

After looking at many of the palapa roofs in town I think the contractor was right. The roofs that are short on ojas can usually be seen from a distance. These roofs are usually on gringo houses. Also, when you look at the ojas from underneath a poor roof is obvious from the distance between the stalks of the ojas. A poor roof will have more room betwee the stalks than a good one. The contractor showed me a few of the houses he had done and the difference was quite obvious. My roof is about 6 or 7 inches thick throughtout, including the overhangs.

Bill Benzinger, owner of the Oasis resort here in Loreto, told me a good roof will last about 12 years but if you have it sprayed with varnish it will last much longer. I had my ceiling sprayed but that was only 2 or 3 years ago so I can't say much about the longlivity in my case. One big advantage with the varnish is that it seals the ceiling and stops the dust and bug excrement from falling on your floor, tables and other flat surfaces.

Good luck with your project, Juan

Good Thread

Skeet/Loreto - 3-28-2005 at 02:04 PM

Juan , I had 44 Ojasa per meter.
First: They have to be cut in October after the full Moon!

Second; they must be soaked in the Estuary for at least 48 Hours prior to putting in Place[Agood pond or Pila will do}

I took a Good commercial Water Sealer and put about a Drop of Chlordane to each 5 Gallon bucket. I sprayed the undeside before it was installed.

After putting all of the Ojas in place I sprayed the Sealer with a High Grade Varnish, very thin Appliciation.

I had one small Hole created by a Termite, I scraped it out and resealed.

My wife, 2 d0gs, 2 Kitty Cats, a Good Number of Bats, all lived there for a number of years.{the Bats only visited at Night during certain Months}.

Lots of Luck

Skeet/Loreto

can you say palapa?

Sharksbaja - 3-28-2005 at 03:34 PM















we like it.............. the way it is.:coolup:

bajajudy - 3-28-2005 at 04:19 PM

Sharksbaja:your palapa is beautiful!
I also have an outdoor and inside kitchen and only use the oven outside. Between the wind and the weather(too cool or too hot) that is all that works for me. If you plan to be here at all in summer the outside oven is a blessing. We used to have laminada sheet metal around the stove before we built the inside kitchen and even then the burner would blow out.
Suerte

thanx, funny thing is...

Sharksbaja - 3-28-2005 at 04:23 PM

that's the one thing we need, an oven. Our wind events in our area of Mulege are not as extreme as along the playas so the stove top usually suffices.

Worldtraveller - 3-28-2005 at 11:50 PM

Different part of the world, but much of Namibia is covered with palapa-type thatch roofs. Very long native grasses & occasionally palm fronds are used.

If properly constructed, they are virtually leak-proof even in bad bad storms. Major maintenance is required every 5 years or so, with annual touch-ups recommended. However, impossible to keep the spiders away. Dust could be kept under control w/ a coating.

Most were quite charming, until the building codes began requiring ugly lightning rods & external gravity-fed automatic sprinklers

Correctamundo Pompano

Sharksbaja - 3-29-2005 at 12:53 AM

I am afraid to say that the previous owner was dying in L.A. with scirosis and hoping for a transplant. We bought it through Roberto Sr. Have pretty much restored the whole house.
Actually only lost a couple of fronds in the Hurricaine after which the home sat years unattended till we purchased it.
I did manage to get stuck with the previous utilitiy bills tho.
We have multiple rainbirds with a dedicated pump for fire control if necessary. (probably would not help in a fire like Tripui) It is good for airborne embers.The lower house is built with cinder block and cemento. It also utilizes native palm, cardon and organpipe cactus in it's construction. Great acoustics for music.

yankeeirishman - 3-29-2005 at 09:10 AM

I am! Can you email the details with a shot of the property? BTW keep up the VERY funny photoshots!
Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano
I was quite sure I recognized the place..albiet the new remodel. Sorry to hear about Ron's battle with scirosis, but can understand the circumstances. Godspeed to a new liver, amigo..the homeguard wishes you well. During his time in Mulege, he was a welcome addition to the morning coffee crew at Sam's DonnaMoe Pizza shop a bunch of years ago. Whatever happened to his cousin, Ms.... from Virginia? We affectionately called her Olive Oil. Sam was smitten with her.

**Which reminds me..when are we going to get a morning sidewalk coffe club going again? Quite a few people would like a nice outside breakfast or just coffee like the old days. Similar to Ole's in Loreto. Pelicano outside seating would be perfect, Pierce & Val! The idea translates to more $$$$**

I know you will enjoy your new palapa home, Sharksbaja. I always liked the palapa cottages 'tropical' design at the Orchard. Roberto, among other things, has a ..er..flair for the romantic aspects of life. Especially liked the swim-up bar and wine cave at Harry & Shirley Eller's cottage. I think they moved to Kansas.

I have quite a bit of extra buildable land left on Coyote Bay that I should do something with...hmmm.:light: Would anyone care for a home in Bahia de Concepcion?