BajaNomad - Junípero Serra statues

Thank you for apologizing, David. Now, I don't feel as angry as I have felt after trying to figure out your words and motives. Take care of yourself and your family.

OK
Everyone else go back to the slime toss.....
At least two good guys are back in some form of harmony....

BajaNomad - 6-29-2020 at 05:36 PM

Ken---------I cannot access that article without a subscription to that newspaper.
Barry

Delete your mercurynews.com cookies in your browser settings. It appears you've reached your monthly limit of free article access. Delete the cookie(s), and this will reset.

fyi

Barry A. - 6-29-2020 at 06:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Ken---------I cannot access that article without a subscription to that newspaper.
Barry

Delete your mercurynews.com cookies in your browser settings. It appears you've reached your monthly limit of free article access. Delete the cookie(s), and this will reset.

fyi

Thank you, Doug. I am not sure what you mean but I will try my best to accomplish what you say. I don't know anything about "cookies" (or "browers") other than they are great to eat, normally.

wessongroup - 6-29-2020 at 06:42 PM

An interesting point made in the "comments" on a site

“So, I have made my mission to protect that statue. Why not put a sign there that says why it’s there. Our Jewish brothers and sisters around the world have monuments to the Holocaust. In Germany, they even having existing concentration camps for [people] to come in and see. This means that they cannot deny what happened because there are Holocaust deniers. If you remove all evidence of slavery, it’s like it never happened. That’s exactly what’s happening. Let it stand, put up another statue with signage.”

[Edited on 6-30-2020 by wessongroup]

mtgoat666 - 6-29-2020 at 06:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Ken---------I cannot access that article without a subscription to that newspaper.
Barry

Delete your mercurynews.com cookies in your browser settings. It appears you've reached your monthly limit of free article access. Delete the cookie(s), and this will reset.

fyi

Thank you, Doug. I am not sure what you mean but I will try my best to accomplish what you say. I don't know anything about "cookies" (or "browers") other than they are great to eat, normally.

Or right click the link, and open in incognito mode (if using google chrome browser)

AKgringo - 6-29-2020 at 07:32 PM

Thanks for the tip Goat! With Microsoft edge, I was able to right click on the link, then open it in a "private window".

Tioloco - 6-29-2020 at 08:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

An interesting point made in the "comments" on a site

“So, I have made my mission to protect that statue. Why not put a sign there that says why it’s there. Our Jewish brothers and sisters around the world have monuments to the Holocaust. In Germany, they even having existing concentration camps for [people] to come in and see. This means that they cannot deny what happened because there are Holocaust deniers. If you remove all evidence of slavery, it’s like it never happened. That’s exactly what’s happening. Let it stand, put up another statue with signage.”

[Edited on 6-30-2020 by wessongroup]

That is the take away here. History will be doomed to repeat itself if we forget the bad lessons that have already been learned.

But unfortunately, some are too soft to handle the brutal reality of our history. They would prefer to erase it. At least they wont have to see it repeated in their lifetime. Screw the next generations. Lets spare the feelings of the here and now.

Sad but true.

Ken Cooke - 6-29-2020 at 09:04 PM

I posted this on Facebook:

We are not erasing history by removing statues.

We are ending a celebration of genocide.

Tioloco - 6-29-2020 at 09:19 PM

I posted this on Facebook:

We are not erasing history by removing statues.

We are ending a celebration of genocide.

I Respectfully disagree. I have never celebrated genocide. On the contrary. I am glad I have had the opportunity to study it and respect the sacrifices that have been made for the freedom of ALL Americans. We are very, very fortunate.

Watch this

Ken Cooke - 6-29-2020 at 09:26 PM

Ken Cooke - 6-29-2020 at 09:43 PM

Tioloco - 6-29-2020 at 09:45 PM

Looks similar to what I saw with people burning police cars and police stations. Not the way to do it. But time will tell what happens here in the end. I hope for the best for ALL Americans.

A Catholic perspective

Ken Cooke - 6-29-2020 at 09:54 PM

LancairDriver - 6-29-2020 at 10:47 PM

Anyone have any ideas how this will all end?

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/old-america-dead-three-s...

motoged - 6-29-2020 at 11:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

Anyone have any ideas how this will all end? ...

Here is one view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQRzxEobWco

pacificobob - 6-30-2020 at 09:25 AM

I posted this on Facebook:

We are not erasing history by removing statues.

We are ending a celebration of genocide.

well said Ken!

pacificobob - 6-30-2020 at 09:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

Anyone have any ideas how this will all end? ...

Here is one view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQRzxEobWco

yikes! thats some harsh observations, and sadly, likely to be spot on. thanks for the link.

[Edited on 6-30-2020 by pacificobob]

Not the way to do it?

Ken Cooke - 6-30-2020 at 11:01 AM

Looks similar to what I saw with people burning police cars and police stations. Not the way to do it. But time will tell what happens here in the end. I hope for the best for ALL Americans.

Taking the knee at NFL games was also stated as, "Not the way to do it." So, if non-violent, silent protest is, "Not the way to do it" and not setting your children atop a topled Serra statue is, "Not the way to do it", then what is the "right way"? for urgent, social/structural change?

Don Pisto - 6-30-2020 at 01:02 PM

Looks similar to what I saw with people burning police cars and police stations. Not the way to do it. But time will tell what happens here in the end. I hope for the best for ALL Americans.

won't solve anything Ken but its a start! :yes:

paranewbi - 6-30-2020 at 04:39 PM

Looks similar to what I saw with people burning police cars and police stations. Not the way to do it. But time will tell what happens here in the end. I hope for the best for ALL Americans.

How about teaching your children that your opinion doesn't matter where you work...your there to work! And do it well as EXPECTED. If your talented enough to make big bucks where few do then count your blessings and thank your boss for the opportunity...don't risk his well being (business) for your personal BS. Because that's what you bring to him.

IF you want to have your say about the past then accept that your past will be in question also...and more and more that is evident by what you posted on the internet, not what was written in a history book or exhibited in public. Good luck defending your sins in the public forum...unless you think you don't have any, just wait and someone will eventually point it out.

mtgoat666 - 6-30-2020 at 04:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi

Looks similar to what I saw with people burning police cars and police stations. Not the way to do it. But time will tell what happens here in the end. I hope for the best for ALL Americans.

Perhaps you angry old white Football fans should be less sensitive. Don’t be a snowflake that gets enraged every time you see a more-successful black man express an opinion you don’t like!

pacificobob - 6-30-2020 at 05:15 PM

X2 goat.

Tioloco - 6-30-2020 at 05:36 PM

Goat and Pacifico-

You guys are sad. Continually inserting false narrative to cover your own bias. People like you are why this country is so divided. Real pieces of work. If you were young, there would be hope for you. Unfortunately, the world has passed you by and you will be soon forgotten in the dust.
Oops... Did I say “Unfortunately” ?
Even I make mistakes from time to time.

TMW - 6-30-2020 at 10:36 PM

Change takes time, a long time, it's like eating an elephant one bite at a time. I think the protesters want it all at once and I don't think that's going to happen. We had a black president for 8 years, what really has changed during that time. One way to look at it was that Trump was elected.

Ken Cooke - 6-30-2020 at 11:15 PM

The protesters goal was to lessen and/or eliminate the impact Junipero Serra's reign had on the physical and emotional well-being of the people who were exposed to his proselytizing and foreign lifestyle. The Indigenous people were described in the video as, "...disgusting..." and this self-hatred has been internalized for generations - according to the narrator of the Los Angeles video. These protests are born out of a desire for a better life both for the protesters as well as the children in attendance at the protests. 46% of the American population is now unemployed, so "Working hard and pleasing your boss" sounds nice, but the narrator's goal is removing a generational grasp that was placed on her people - something more profound than a mere pat on the back at the workplace. This action goes much deeper.

Can't We ALL Just Get Along ?

MrBillM - 7-1-2020 at 10:26 AM

While I can certainly understand AND agree with the position that those F-ing Friars "might" not properly be objects of historical adoration, at the same time I am unequivocally opposed to the lawless activities engaged in by the mob and would like to see everyone caught subject to serious jail time as a lesson to others.

The same is true of the Confederate symbols (in effect) celebrating a treasonous period attempting to preserve the unpardonable sin of slavery.

Remove those symbols through lawful political action. Jail the criminals.

As an (humorous ?) aside, although I find those who embrace the whole "Confederate" legacy a bunch of ignorant, racist hicks, my penchant for needling those who go nutty over the question too easy a target to ignore.

SO .................. I checked EBay this a.m. for some 5" x 3" (postcard-size) Confederate Flag Decals. NO LUCK. ALL novelty items of that sort GONE. No problema, though. I found numerous otra sources and ordered a quantity to send out now and then or paste in various locations as whimsy dictates.

" Double, double toil and trouble .......... Fire burn and caldron bubble.
For a charm of powerful trouble .......... Like a hell-broth boil and bubble."

Fun is where you find it.

Don Pisto - 7-1-2020 at 10:39 AM

Mexico re-brands 1520 Spanish defeat as 'Victorious Night'
Associated Press Associated Press•June 30, 2020
MEXICO CITY (AP) — Officials in Mexico City held a small ceremony and unveiled a plaque Tuesday to re-brand the way the 1520 defeat of Spanish conquistadores in Mexico's capital has been remembered.

For centuries, Mexicans called June 30, 1520 “La Noche Triste,” or the “Sad Night,” the name given to it by the eventually victorious Spaniards. That was because hundreds of Spaniards and their Indigenous allies died when Hernán Cortés and his troops fled the increasingly rebellious Aztec capital, now Mexico City.

On Tuesday, Mexico City officials unveiled a plaque and banners celebrating the Spanish defeat, calling it “The Victorious Night.”

The ceremony is symbolic of how Mexicans have struggled with how to mark the 500th anniversary of the 1519-1521 Conquest.

At that time, Aztec warriors under their new leader, Cuitláhuac, attacked the Spaniards as they fled from the island city of Tenochtitlan, across a narrow causeway.

Once they reached dry land, Cortés reportedly sat and wept under a tree. The original “Tree of the Sad Night” was later burned.

But on Monday, city Culture Secretary José Alfonso Suárez del Real y Aguilera planted a small tree of the same kind — a Montezuma cypress — at the site and unveiled the “Victorious Night” plaque.

“Let’s break with these legends of sadness and tears, and recognize the strength, the courage and the audacity of the Mexica peoples who stood up the invaders,” Suárez del Real y Aguilera said.

Drawing a parallel with the current coronavirus pandemic, he urged Mexicans to remember that the Aztecs were defeated as much by smallpox and other European diseases that the Spanish brought, as by their swords. “Let’s recognize that, if it hadn’t of been for the smallpox, the Conquest surely would not have been as easy and simple as it was to cruelly attack people dying of hunger and an unknown disease.”

The fleeing Spaniards dropped some of the gold they had looted from the Aztec capital, then known as Tenochtitlán. Some of the gold was later found and was tested recently, confirming it was likely Aztec gold.

Cortés retreated from Mexico City, regrouped, gained more Indigenous allies and in 1521 returned to conquer the Aztec capital. The Spaniards went on to conquer the rest of Mexico in the ensuing years.

Mexico has struggled with how to mark the 500th anniversary of the conquest, which resulted in the death of a large part of the country’s pre-Hispanic population.

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador has demanded an apology from Spain for abuses committed during the conquest.

SFandH - 7-1-2020 at 11:50 AM

Interesting, thanks. Good for AMLO!

Getting it Done and Getting us Together Again

MrBillM - 7-1-2020 at 12:30 PM

To Heck with halfway measures. EVERY country accused of historical oppression should issue a Mass Mea Culpa. The UN would be an appropriate venue.

Something like:

"WE [insert offending peoples] DO HEREBY APOLOGIZE AND ASK FORGIVENESS FOR EVERY HISTORICAL EVIL PERPETRATED BY ANY OF OUR ANTECEDENTS ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME !

They could even engrave it on a memorial plaque and present it (on bended knee, of course) to be enshrined on a towering (nonwhite) Obelisk . Perhaps in Geneva. With a chorus formed by representatives from each offending nation singing " .......... Come on people now, Smile on your brother, Everybody get together, Try to love one another, Right now ..........."

There could be a cathartic annual "World Weeping Day" to atone for the sins of history.

This could work. Let's all get on that Bus to righteous realization and rapprochement.

Then move on.

pacificobob - 7-1-2020 at 02:20 PM