BajaNomad - Covid-19 deaths in USA fall to the lowest levels since March

There is such an outcry against a relatively minor percentage of deaths attributed to a contaigon juxtaposed against a great percentage of children aborted without a thought by you and those who shed tears over a virus.

[Edited on 6-30-2020 by paranewbi]

I sincerely commend you on all the help you have given to others.

However, the problem with your statement above, is that "children" are not aborted. Fetuses are aborted. They aren't referred to as babies or children for a reason- because they aren't.

John Harper - 7-1-2020 at 05:00 AM

If these anti-abortion people put half their effort into promoting birth control and sex education as they do to trying to outlaw legal abortion rights they might find one issue solves the other.

Americans clearly do not like their "rights" infringed on, whether it's firearms, or personal health decisions (masks and abortions).

John

paranewbi - 7-1-2020 at 05:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

Ah, the old 'terms mean what we decide' switcheroo. So a woman is no longer pregnant with 'child'? And that 'baby' shown on your sonogram is just and organism?

Some of us think life begins at conception, just as evil is conceived in the mind, not when it manifests itself. Even our legal system accounts 'intent' as part of a criminal act.

When two elements come together within the womb the biological intent is to combine and reproduce... no matter what you want to call it, the act of reproduction is intent on producing you. But you beat that 25% odds of being expelled. Yea!

paranewbi - 7-1-2020 at 05:59 AM

If these anti-abortion people put half their effort into promoting birth control and sex education as they do to trying to outlaw legal abortion rights they might find one issue solves the other.

Americans clearly do not like their "rights" infringed on, whether it's firearms, or personal health decisions (masks and abortions).

John

Billions of dollars have been dedicated to birth control and sex ed John, ignorance still abounds. And with all of that effort the numbers still increase.

Rights come with acceptance of the consequences. Unless your a product of the 'entitled' generation which now defines 'rights' as entitlements.

And then you equate the government edict to wear masks with abortions? Ever hear the word 'convoluted' John? You accept being told you can't go to a bar, the beach, congregate (unless your 'protesting'), have a family holiday gathering, attend a venue of worship, or even leave your house, and you must cover your mouth to avoid a biological exchange by spewing a fluid from you body (and in some places be fined for not doing so)?

Yet you would never accept being told to cover your little baby-maker, or suffer a consequence, and in fact the government will actually help you out of the consequences of your actions. Oh yea, the sanctity of the bedroom!

Let the name calling begin...

A Complicated Question

MrBillM - 7-1-2020 at 09:13 AM

Setting aside the "Bible" while discussing the abortion, it is still a complicated one involving diametrically-opposing interests and moral values. Given that, it is a debate which will never be resolved. Depending on the political balance at any given time, one side or the other will dominate the legal position with the other side unswayed in opposition and determined to swing the political weight back their way.

Personally, given my lifelong generally negative view of children and the fact that both sides have salient points in their favor, I've withdrawn from favoring either position.

As I've said many times (well many, many, many), "there's a lot to be said for kids. Unfortunately, almost all of it bad."

But, that doesn't necessarily mean that we should kill them before they get a chance to prove that they might be one of the few worthwhile.

Decisions, decisions.

paranewbi - 7-1-2020 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM

Setting aside the "Bible" while discussing the abortion, it is still a complicated one involving diametrically-opposing interests and moral values. Given that, it is a debate which will never be resolved. Depending on the political balance at any given time, one side or the other will dominate the legal position with the other side unswayed in opposition and determined to swing the political weight back their way.

Personally, given my lifelong generally negative view of children and the fact that both sides have salient points in their favor, I've withdrawn from favoring either position.

As I've said many times (well many, many, many), "there's a lot to be said for kids. Unfortunately, almost all of it bad."

But, that doesn't necessarily mean that we should kill them before they get a chance to prove that they might be one of the few worthwhile.

Decisions, decisions.

Succinctly; We pick and choose our poison.
Doesn't mean we have to swallow what others choose.
And it will never mean I have to swallow what the Government says I have to.

And it seems a lot of people are chokin' that down without thinking.

thebajarunner - 7-1-2020 at 11:27 AM

Murder a pregnant woman and you get charged with TWO homicides.

Considering Consequences

MrBillM - 7-1-2020 at 11:55 AM

One wonders whether those pondering the killing of a Pregnant Woman takes that additional count into consideration ?

Ya Think ?

John Harper - 7-1-2020 at 12:44 PM

Billions of dollars have been dedicated to birth control and sex ed John, ignorance still abounds. And with all of that effort the numbers still increase.

Yet you would never accept being told to cover your little baby-maker, or suffer a consequence.

So, outlawing abortion will cure ignorance? Who knew. I thought unplanned pregnancies in the US were already at a record low?

If you're worried about other countries abortion rates, what do you expect us to do? Other countries are sovereign nations, what do you suggest we do? Bomb them until they outlaw abortions? Starve them into submission?

Also, I do practice safe sex (per government approved methods) which according to you is submitting to government control? I sure has hell don't want nor need an unwanted pregnancy, don't need the government to compel me about the consequences.

Wearing a mask is just "common sense" for a highly communicable disease transmitted by air, suggested by healthcare officials worldwide. What possible problem do you have with that? Is it that much of an imposition?

You have a "right" not to use "common sense?" What possible advantage is that to anyone?

Is this really the hill you "freedom" and "rights" people want to die on?

Why not the epic battle over reusable grocery bags versus the "freedom" and "right" to use disposable plastic bags? That crusade not as big an imposition of government power as wearing masks to you?

Pick your battles. Or, troll away.

John

[Edited on 7-1-2020 by John Harper]

mtgoat666 - 7-1-2020 at 07:54 PM

July 1, 2020.

The United States on Wednesday saw a record number -- 48,477 -- of new coronavirus cases reported in a single day, according to data complied by Johns Hopkins University.

Wednesday's total eclipses the previous high of new cases reached on June 26, when 45,255 new coronavirus cases were reported across the US.

It took a little more than two months for the US to record its first 48,000 cases, the university's data says.

There have been 2,683,894 cases of coronavirus in the country, according to Johns Hopkins University. More than 128,000 people have died.

surabi - 7-2-2020 at 12:37 AM

[Edited on 6-30-2020 by paranewbi][/rquote]
When two elements come together within the womb the biological intent is to combine and reproduce... no matter what you want to call it, the act of reproduction is intent on producing you.
[/rquote]

I've got news for you. Women have been aborting unwanted children forever and will be forever. Even primitive tribes had herbs they used for abortion. Women have been so desperate that they go for back-room abortions where they end up with sepsis and die. Is that preferable to you than safe procedures in a sterile environment? Because that's what will happen if legal abortion isn't available.
Or does your "pro-life" stance only extend to those who you deem entitled to live?

paranewbi - 7-2-2020 at 02:29 PM

And you know Caj.... a day ago I was asked what I had done for diminishing the use of abortion and I recounted a list of my actions for the poser on this thread.
The only response was I was called 'a real mother Theresa'.

Well if you didn't take notice. I have posted that my wife is a Covid Nurse and tends to Covid patients several days a week. She was just tested yesterday, again, and we are thankful she came up negative (although she would desire to be building up anti-bodies if possible).

She lays it on the line everyday to give comfort to those who are sick and we both know, as my family does, if she passed from her efforts, we would all celebrate her life.

Some of our children and grandchildren are also of that mind in their personal lives and I'm proud that we walk the walk and don't just talk.

SFandH - 7-2-2020 at 05:18 PM

Now that hospital patients are getting younger in average age, watch for the phrase "cytokine storm" in news reports. It's what killed young/middle-aged adults in great numbers during the second wave of the 1918 flu pandemic.

[Edited on 7-3-2020 by SFandH]

JZ - 7-2-2020 at 07:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Now that hospital patients are getting younger in average age, watch for the phrase "cytokine storm" in news reports. It's what killed young/middle-aged adults in great numbers during the second wave of the 1918 flu pandemic.

[Edited on 7-3-2020 by SFandH]

You dudes that are begging for a 2and wave to hit are just awful human beings.

You have literally said this a 100 times on here, give it a rest already.

mtgoat666 - 7-2-2020 at 07:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

You dudes that are begging for a 2and wave to hit are just awful human beings.

You have literally said this a 100 times on here, give it a rest already.

The second wave has already hit.
Some countries did well responding to the virus. Several like the USA failed miserably.
Trump is desperately spinning to explain How his leadership was so winning and the second wave is everybody else’s fault.
Flat earthers and the selfish and oblivious are wandering around maskless, spreading the virus like a zombie contagion.
Trump moved his convention another city to avoid the social-distancing rules, and now that city has made masks mandatory.
Sweden is opening a government inquiry into why their lax stay-open approach failed so miserably (highest death rate in Europe).
Most of us our shaking our heads saying “I told you so.”

RFClark - 7-2-2020 at 07:44 PM

Goat,

Most of those wandering around w/o masks are protesters. Nothing wrong with masks! Glad you like them! We agree On something! Only 3 or so percent have had the Wuhan Virus. We never left the 1st wave.

You probably aren’t happy about the job numbers either! Live with it!

AKgringo - 7-2-2020 at 07:50 PM

Actually, there are a few countries with more deaths per million population than Sweden; https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat...

[Edited on 7-3-2020 by AKgringo]

JZ - 7-2-2020 at 08:31 PM

This is the 1st wave. 2nd wave will be just before winter.

What SFandH is hoping for is a wave where the virus mutates and becomes more deadly (although caj13 already thinks the death rate in Canada is 8% - lol).

[Edited on 7-3-2020 by JZ]

BajaNomad - 7-2-2020 at 08:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

The second wave has already hit.

'The United States is still in the “first wave” of Covid-19 infections. “You hear people saying, ‘We’re heading into a second wave,’ [but] it’s not,” Dr. Greg Poland, professor of medicine and infectious diseases at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, founder and director of Mayo Vaccine Research Group, tells CNBC Make It. “It’s all part of this ongoing reservoir of infection in the U.S.” '

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/28/what-second-wave-of-covid-19...

Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb has been indicating this for some time:

From mid-June:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/12/coronavirus-spread-isnt-the-...

Within the last week:

mtgoat666 - 7-3-2020 at 07:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

The second wave has already hit.

Semantics. When I look at the curve, I call it a second wave. You say tomato, I say to tomato.

But we can rest assured, no need to worry, yesterday Our magnificent leader says we got it under control....

"The crisis is being handled. ... Some areas that were very hard-hit are now doing very well. Some were doing very well, and we thought they may be gone and they flare up, and we're putting out the fires," he said.

I feel so much better knowing that!

[Edited on 7-3-2020 by mtgoat666]

elgatoloco - 7-3-2020 at 09:03 AM

Goat,

Most of those wandering around w/o masks are protesters. Nothing wrong with masks! Glad you like them! We agree On something! Only 3 or so percent have had the Wuhan Virus. We never left the 1st wave.

You probably aren’t happy about the job numbers either! Live with it!

Your conscious bias and obvious xenophobic viewpoint is plain to see in the term you continually use to refer to Covid 19. It makes it difficult, for me at least, to give any merit to anything you may have to say about anything at all. Of course I may have it all wrong and its an unconscious thing you are doing but................

caj13 - 7-3-2020 at 10:38 AM

And you know Caj.... a day ago I was asked what I had done for diminishing the use of abortion and I recounted a list of my actions for the poser on this thread.
The only response was I was called 'a real mother Theresa'.

Well if you didn't take notice. I have posted that my wife is a Covid Nurse and tends to Covid patients several days a week. She was just tested yesterday, again, and we are thankful she came up negative (although she would desire to be building up anti-bodies if possible).

She lays it on the line everyday to give comfort to those who are sick and we both know, as my family does, if she passed from her efforts, we would all celebrate her life.

Some of our children and grandchildren are also of that mind in their personal lives and I'm proud that we walk the walk and don't just talk.

Ha Ha Ha, I guess i win the pool. My post deifying mother Paranewbi Teresa didn't last for more than 1/2 an hour, but of course Paranewbis derogatory post is still here - interesting!

Paging mr admin guy, you are being ordered by para to remove this post as well -

caj13 - 7-3-2020 at 10:44 AM

Hey RF,
I'm sure with your vast knowledge of Medical History, you know that the worst pandemic of all time - the 1918"Spanish flu" actually came from the good old USA - right - heartland - Kansas!

so lets make sure USA accepts responsibility for the most massive killing spree in the history of the planet,

The "Spanish Flu " needs to be renamed the "Kansas Flu" before you start with your attempts to rename the covid 19 pandemic as a political stunt.

JZ - 7-3-2020 at 11:38 AM

Hey RF,
I'm sure with your vast knowledge of Medical History, you know that the worst pandemic of all time - the 1918"Spanish flu" actually came from the good old USA - right - heartland - Kansas!

so lets make sure USA accepts responsibility for the most massive killing spree in the history of the planet,

The "Spanish Flu " needs to be renamed the "Kansas Flu" before you start with your attempts to rename the covid 19 pandemic as a political stunt.

This might be the case. But has not been accepted as 100% fact as you are stating it to be.

caj13 - 7-3-2020 at 04:04 PM

This might be the case. But has not been accepted as 100% fact as you are stating it to be.

almost assuredly its true, all research and info point to camp funston (ft riley) and the spread followed the railroad routes across america to eastern seaboard, and other military training camps, and then infected sailors boarded ships went to war in Europe , spreading the disease. There is good evidence that the disease in funston probably came from haskell County bout 300 miles away from camp funston

heres some actual research untainted with your political leaning, pretty good summary of previous work, and pulling it all together
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340389/

caj13 - 7-4-2020 at 05:58 AM

This is the 1st wave. 2nd wave will be just before winter.

What SFandH is hoping for is a wave where the virus mutates and becomes more deadly (although caj13 already thinks the death rate in Canada is 8% - lol).

[Edited on 7-3-2020 by JZ]

Hey JZ, I must have been drunk when I said that - i don't remember making that statement, would you care to point me to where i said it?

motoged - 7-4-2020 at 10:41 AM

heres some actual research ......, pretty good summary of previous work, and pulling it all together
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340389/

Good link....not too long to read/look at. It might, however, require some critical thinking skills to integrate the info.

JZ - 7-4-2020 at 11:36 AM

Hey JZ, I must have been drunk when I said that - i don't remember making that statement, would you care to point me to where i said it?

My sincere apologies. It was Alm, the rice, beans, and rocks guy from BoLA.

Mutating Hopes and Dreams

MrBillM - 7-5-2020 at 09:00 AM

While the BEST mutation scenario would be one in which COVID became less virulent and eventually disappeared, I would have to say (from a personal AND practical standpoint) that a second-best would be a mutation which resulted in a heavier dose of illness and death for those younger, especially young adults and children.

THAT would dramatically change the current blase attitude among the populace which is continuing to bring about increased spread.

[Edited on 7-5-2020 by MrBillM]

monoloco - 7-6-2020 at 10:58 AM

Simpson's Paradox
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1278750652160634880.html?...

pacificobob - 7-6-2020 at 11:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

Simpson's Paradox
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1278750652160634880.html?...

excellent, thanks for posting monoloco. i hope everyone will read this. however, I'll wager the ones who need to read it most will not.

motoged - 7-6-2020 at 12:43 PM

The Densa cohort...

pauldavidmena - 7-6-2020 at 12:47 PM

A concise analysis of recent trends bolstered by data and remarkably free of political bias.

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

Simpson's Paradox
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1278750652160634880.html?...

motoged - 7-8-2020 at 11:00 AM

The heading for this thread seems quite inaccurate now when we look at the horrible surge of Covid 19 in USA since "opening" attitudes and personal behaviours took hold.

I certainly understand the frustration and impatience of folks unprepared for the "sacrifices" needed for the notion of "a greater good".

"Rugged individualism" would be better applied to those prepared to do the right thing, and NOT a rationalization for avoiding personal and community well-being.

The gong show of how the USA is failing so radically to manage the health crisis can be attributed to a lack of governmental leadership , but the leadership issue is not the real issue (and too easy a target). I think it runs deeper than that and a closer look at how "independence" and the John Wayne mentality/values fall short of what holds a society together.

Consider the concept of inter-dependence when looking for ways to keep a society's fabric somewhat intact. It isn't a socialist concept as some here have suggested.... but a notion basic to all spiritual doctrines and (I hate to say it) religions.

"Freedom" is not operationalized by doing whatever a person wants to do....but selfishness and self-centerdness are.

RFClark - 7-8-2020 at 12:25 PM

I wonder (Not!) if a large portion of the increases in cases, but generally not deaths is due in part to a lot more testing and the riots, looting, arson, muggings, shootings and “largely peaceful protests? That said shootings and shooting deaths are way up in large cities

The different gatherings violent and largely peaceful alike have failed to follow reasonable guidelines and then there have been the Virus Parties! Remember Darwin never runs out of “awards”!

On a slightly different point. About 110,000 Americans die each month from a variety of causes. I wonder what that number is for the last 4 months?

John Harper - 7-8-2020 at 02:19 PM

I wonder (Not!) if a large portion of the increases in cases, but generally not deaths is due in part to the opening of churches across the South, people shunning mask requirements for political reasons, bar patrons ignoring social distancing, and other forms of selfish and anti-civil behavior

I agree.

John

BajaNomad - 7-8-2020 at 02:40 PM

About 110,000 Americans die each month from a variety of causes. I wonder what that number is for the last 4 months?

"Total predicted number of excess deaths since 2/1/2020 across the United States: 115,061 - 159,464"

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

excess_cdc.jpg - 145kB

It's Always a GOOD Bet .............

MrBillM - 7-8-2020 at 03:25 PM

............. To bet on the BAD.

Expect the worst from people. You'll never be disappointed and (occasionally) be pleasantly surprised.

RFClark - 7-8-2020 at 03:44 PM

Interesting!

More interesting deaths have been well below predicted and have been falling for the last month! Currently a significantly fewer number of people are dying each week then any other week on this chart!

elgatoloco - 7-8-2020 at 06:12 PM

I agree.

John

RFClark - 7-8-2020 at 06:48 PM

Goodness!

Those “Damned hard drinking red neck Christians!” are responsible for everything bad in the world! The “righteous” Looters, rioters, arsonists, muggers and generally peaceful protesters who didn’t wear masks or social distance, being ‘immaculate of thought and purpose” carried no disease! (Serious Irony Here!)

That said it doesn’t matter because the chart the “Head Nomad” posted clearly shows a big decrease in total deaths from all causes for at least the last month!

Prior to that the same chart shows a big spike in deaths from when Cuomo (D-NY) and Murphy (D-NJ) sent all of those folks in the extended care facilities to their deaths!

BajaTed - 7-8-2020 at 06:59 PM

Arizona is the hottest spot in the world in more ways than one.
It will be 122 this weekend.
33% positivity rate for those tested, best in the world.
The experiment continues.......

RFClark - 7-8-2020 at 07:24 PM

That’s getting close to herd immunity levels! And yet the death rate In AZ(1.83%) is a very small fraction of NY(8.1%) or NJ(8.79%) for example!

SFandH - 7-8-2020 at 07:43 PM

That’s getting close to herd immunity levels! And yet the death rate In AZ(1.83%) is a very small fraction of NY(8.1%) or NJ(8.79%) for example!

33% is nowhere near herd immunity. Do you happen to know the number? For measles, it's 94%.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art...

I bet the number of deaths increases this month. It's a lagging indicator. Hospitalizations are going up in the outbreak states. ICUs are flooded in AZ with very sick people.

https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-icu-91-percent-capacity-1-4...

[Edited on 7-9-2020 by SFandH]

RFClark - 7-8-2020 at 07:54 PM

Yes and according to the CDC for COVID viruses it’s around 60%

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-achieving...

SFandH - 7-8-2020 at 08:07 PM

Yes and according to the CDC for COVID viruses it’s around 60%

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-achieving...

Looks like it is debatable:

"According to Johns Hopkins, 70%-90% of the population (230-300 million Americans) needs to develop protective antibodies to COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity.

Approximately 2.74 million Americans have tested positive for the coronavirus, over 130,000 of which have died (case fatality of 4.74%). By contrast, the case fatality of the flu in the U.S. is roughly 0.1%.

Absent the existence of a COVID-19 vaccine, any reasonable extrapolation of the data -- even at half the current case fatality rate, means we will see a seven-figure body count that exceeds 5 million deaths before we can attain herd immunity."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/vaccine-reach-herd-immunity-scient...

JZ - 7-8-2020 at 09:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Approximately 2.74 million Americans have tested positive for the coronavirus, over 130,000 of which have died (case fatality of 4.74%). By contrast, the case fatality of the flu in the U.S. is roughly 0.1%.

Absent the existence of a COVID-19 vaccine, any reasonable extrapolation of the data -- even at half the current case fatality rate, means we will see a seven-figure body count that exceeds 5 million deaths before we can attain herd immunity."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/vaccine-reach-herd-immunity-scient...

This is faulty logic. Fatality rate is a fraction of what you posted.

3M have been confirmed by testing. That is the tip of the iceberg of the number of ppl who have had it.

"Our best estimate right now is that for every case that was reported, there actually were 10 other infections," CDC Director Dr Robert Redfield told reporters on June 25th.

[Edited on 7-9-2020 by JZ]

Bajazly - 7-9-2020 at 12:01 AM

3M have been confirmed by testing. That is the tip of the iceberg of the number of ppl who have had it.

"Our best estimate right now is that for every case that was reported, there actually were 10 other infections," CDC Director Dr Robert Redfield told reporters on June 25th.

So we have 10x infections as reported, 30m, less than 10% of the population, still a long way to go to cover the herd. If we do get to the 100k a day, which is looking pretty likely, only 300 days till we all have had it or died... and the herd moves on.

BajaMama - 7-9-2020 at 06:19 AM

4 Months in, twice as many people have died from covid than a bad year of flu, so we know it is more deadly than flu. How deadly? Until excess deaths are calculated when this is over we won't know. We are up to nearly 59K cases a day, at this rate we will have more data than we ever wanted. And now aerosol transmission is suspected. What is crazy to me about this disease is how politicized our leadership has made it.

BajaTed - 7-9-2020 at 06:40 AM

It goes beyond politics, American exceptionalism was explained to me when I was in Europe. We think were different and are exceptions to social norms in other countries. Too many cowboy movies I guess.

bajaric - 7-9-2020 at 07:28 AM

As a couple people have pointed out, on the far right side of the chart for weekly number of deaths it drops way off; fewer total deaths. To me this indicates that the spike in deaths in April / May were people who would have died pretty soon anyway, and they checked out a couple months early.

Apparently the antibodies might disappear within a few months, so looks like having it once does not provide lifetime immunity. I think this will end up being like the flue where an annual vaccination is required.

Of course, that will bring out the anti vaxxer crowd. Seems like there is a distrust of scientists, and authority in general, fueled by innumerable conspiracy theories floating around the internet.

JZ - 7-9-2020 at 07:33 AM

42% of all US Covid deaths are from nursing homes. Think about that. Fixing that alone will be a huge step in the right direction. NY and NJ let Covid patients back in, killing many thousands.

The avg age of those inflected has plummeted, so the death rate will continue to drop.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nurs...

[Edited on 7-10-2020 by JZ]

motoged - 7-9-2020 at 10:07 AM

The avg age of those inflected has pummeled, so the death rate will continue to drop.

[Edited on 7-9-2020 by JZ]

Pummelled? Or plummeted?

RFClark - 7-9-2020 at 10:33 AM

“ As a couple people have pointed out, on the far right side of the chart for weekly number of deaths it drops way off; fewer total deaths. To me this indicates that the spike in deaths in April / May were people who would have died pretty soon anyway, and they checked out a couple months early.”

That spike probably represents exactly that. Those were the people in care facilities who weren’t in good health to begin with and died as a result of NY and NJ turning the Virus loose in those facilities. If you invert that spike and place it in the current trough it looks like they will cancel each other out. That means there might not be much or any increase in overall deaths from this Virus. Only time will tell!

surabi - 7-9-2020 at 11:22 PM

That’s getting close to herd immunity levels!

What is it with you people banging on about herd immunity? There has been zero, ZERO scientific evidence to suggest that having this virus confers any immunity whatsoever. In fact, they've found that antibodies shown in those who have had it decrease significantly in a short period of time. And no proof at all that even those who show antibodies can't get re-infected.

Talking about herd immunity in reference to COVID is ignorant nonsense based upon nothing but something some other ignorant person determined to ignore scientific findings said or wrote.

mtgoat666 - 7-10-2020 at 02:40 AM

El Centro is totally over-run with pandemic...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/california-coronavirus-imp...

John Harper - 7-10-2020 at 05:03 AM

These Covid-19 deniers are getting close to complete herd stupidity.

I agree.

John

pacificobob - 7-10-2020 at 06:50 AM

These Covid-19 deniers are getting close to complete herd stupidity.

I agree.

John

bingo

pauldavidmena - 7-10-2020 at 07:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

These Covid-19 deniers are getting close to complete herd stupidity.

I agree.

John

bingo

You might say herd stupidity is contagious.

I'm here all week. Try the fish tacos.

mtgoat666 - 7-10-2020 at 07:23 AM

A virologist, an epidemiologist and a scientist walk into a bar...

Of course they didn’t

mtgoat666 - 7-10-2020 at 07:27 AM

[Edited on 7-10-2020 by BajaNomad]

Covid Deaths actually underestimated

caj13 - 7-17-2020 at 07:02 PM

So I'm sure Gnuey and his minions heads will explode. But here is the actual science, the data, then analysis, the techniques used - etc. Turns out a careful, well thought out, well supported analysis of the data shows the number of deaths being underestimated.

If you have issues with the claims made in the paper - why vent here? why not email the corresponding author

Dr. Weinberger at Yale, and explain to him how they got it all wrong?

His contact info is right in the paper

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...

gnukid - 7-18-2020 at 08:33 AM

News Flash

Everyone is dying all the time

Go Out

Enjoy Fresh Air, Sunshine, Get Exercise

Today Is Your Day

JZ - 7-18-2020 at 09:55 AM

"So two people I know felt like chit so they made appointments to have the test. They felt better after 2 days so they canceled their appointment and never took the test. A week later they both recieved a positive result in the mail. WTF is that? I wonder how often this is happening. Has anyone else heard of this happening?"

Alan - 7-18-2020 at 10:24 AM

Unfortunately I have difficulty believing any of these reports. Everyone has an agenda so I don't think an honest answer can be found when all of the inputs have been skewed.

caj13 - 7-18-2020 at 04:05 PM

"So two people I know felt like chit so they made appointments to have the test. They felt better after 2 days so they canceled their appointment and never took the test. A week later they both recieved a positive result in the mail. WTF is that? I wonder how often this is happening. Has anyone else heard of this happening?"

Right!!!!!!
Medical Malpractice, get me the mail they received, or a scan of them, and we will go after the providers, and demand they be prosecuted.

We really don't like liars around here - at least most of us don't!

caj13 - 7-18-2020 at 04:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

News Flash

Everyone is dying all the time

Go Out

Enjoy Fresh Air, Sunshine, Get Exercise

Today Is Your Day

I get it Gnuey - This data and science crap, it absolutely sucks when it exposes your personal beliefs for what they are - right!

and last time I checked, not "everyone is dying all the time"

some of us are living every day, and wish to continue doing so, we have no interest in our lives being cut short by some D-Bag who thinks they have some sort of right to infect others with potentially deadly diseases!

mtgoat666 - 7-18-2020 at 04:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

News Flash

Everyone is dying all the time

Go Out

Enjoy Fresh Air, Sunshine, Get Exercise

Today Is Your Day

Gnukid paul is 50 year old man with a trust fund and teenage girlfriend, he doesnt care about you over the hill boomers in the covid19 risk category...

Selfish middle-aged children, like paul, cannot be reasoned with; like the children they are, they defend themselves with nonsensical logic...

Barry A. - 7-18-2020 at 04:32 PM

Hmmmm, Gnukid has a "teenage girlfriend"??? Can't be that bad then, unless she is under 18, I suppose.

------and Goat-------you gotta problem with "Trust Funds"?

The Goat is ALWAYS such a nice guy--------we love you, Goat.

JZ - 7-18-2020 at 04:36 PM

I'll post something for you later that will open your eyes.

It's an audio recording of a guy who processes claims for hospitals. I need to upload it.

BTW, the guy that wrote the above is a very wealthy guy who lives in Pacific Palisades. Not a bullchiter by any stretch.

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by JZ]

Hook - 7-18-2020 at 06:45 PM

If someone has a financial incentive to do so, "facts" will be twisted.

Doesn't really matter which side of the coin. But the coin is the incentive.

The adherents from both sides can be easily led along the path, unfortunately.

I believe the number of deaths are underestimated, especially in Mexico. Early on, in the US, too, before tests were more wide spread. Why test someone who has died, when the tests were hard to acquire?

I have heard several reports of local docs and top rate hospitals in the area I own in, in Mexico, who are supposedly returning results in THREE HOURS!!! In all cases, the results of the test determined whether other monetary-related procedures would be allowed IF the results were negative....uh, positive for the person performing the monetary-relate procedure and/or the recipient of the procedure.

Don't believe ANY statistics you hear about the virus in Mexico. I know doctors down there who say it's completely bogus.

[Edited on 7-19-2020 by Hook]

JZ - 7-18-2020 at 06:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

If someone has a financial incentive to do so, "facts" will be twisted.

Doesn't really matter which side of the coin. But the coin is the incentive.

The adherents from both sides can be easily led along the path, unfortunately.

I believe the number of deaths are underestimated, especially in Mexico. Early on, in the US, too, before tests were more wide spread. Why test someone who has died, when the tests were hard to acquire?

I have heard several reports of local docs and top rate hospitals in the area I own in Mexico who are supposedly returning results in THREE HOURS!!! In all cases, the results of the test determined whether other monetary-related procedures would be allowed IF the results were negative....uh, positive for the person performing the monetary-relate procedure and/or the recipient of the procedure.

[Edited on 7-19-2020 by Hook]

Yep.

Hospitals have lost all their elective procedure revenue.

They get $13-14K for handling Covid cases, much more for ICU's.

AKgringo - 7-18-2020 at 07:21 PM

There are two hospitals in Nevada County (CA), and right now they have 0 active covid19 patients. Increased testing has resulted in a five fold increase in reported cases, but they are not showing up in the hospital, or the morgue!

Here is a link, if you are curious about my source; https://mynevadacounty.com/2924/Coronavirus

The data is updated daily, except the number of tests performed, which is done weekly on Monday

mtgoat666 - 7-18-2020 at 08:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

Yep.

Hospitals have lost all their elective procedure revenue.

They get $13-14K for handling Covid cases, much more for ICU's.

My bro is an md who runs a hospital. Asked him about the right wing stories of hospitals milking the system. He says the right wing nut stories are wrong like everything from right wing HQ..
In his particular case they spent $36m on covid19, got $24m fed funds. First traunch was based on precovid Medicare/medicaid revenue, second traunch based on covid census. No payments based on per patient c19

JZ - 7-18-2020 at 09:12 PM

You can choose to believe me or not. I would never lie. I do not like Trump.

30 mins ago my wife told me this story. One of her long time colleagues, from the last 15 years across a couple companies, told her that him and 7 of his friends went to get tested recently. He is a black guy. Nice guy.

They were at a party and later learned that someone had it. They waited in line for an hour and forty five mins in Ventura and gave up.

All received letters in the mail that they tested positive.

[Edited on 7-19-2020 by JZ]

LancairDriver - 7-18-2020 at 09:34 PM

This will all change after November.

JZ - 7-18-2020 at 09:43 PM

Conversation I had with someone two days ago.

https://soundcloud.com/user-936569904/covid-lyft-1/s-ijc4j0o...

[Edited on 7-19-2020 by JZ]

motoged - 7-18-2020 at 11:26 PM

.....BTW, the guy that wrote the above is a very wealthy guy who lives in Pacific Palisades. Not a bullchiter by any stretch.

[Edited on 7-18-2020 by JZ]

Are you saying rich guys don't ever lie?

Some guys know the price of everything....and the value of nothing :light:

pacificobob - 7-19-2020 at 06:46 AM

You can choose to believe me or not. I would never lie. I do not like Trump.

30 mins ago my wife told me this story. One of her long time colleagues, from the last 15 years across a couple companies, told her that him and 7 of his friends went to get tested recently. He is a black guy. Nice guy.

They were at a party and later learned that someone had it. They waited in line for an hour and forty five mins in Ventura and gave up.

All received letters in the mail that they tested positive.

[Edited on 7-19-2020 by JZ]

oh! one guy was black? AND nice? in what reality would these factors matter one ***? that you felt adding these qualifiers somehow contributed to your message really has me wondering .

caj13 - 7-19-2020 at 09:34 AM

Conversation I had with someone two days ago.

https://soundcloud.com/user-936569904/covid-lyft-1/s-ijc4j0o...

[Edited on 7-19-2020 by JZ]

so now the story morphs from second hand information to at least 4th hand - how convenient!

Bahahahhaaaaaa! "Covid related", obviously you have no idea what that term is? or why it's used? And your guy who "works for a company, who works for the hospital, but really works for the patient" what is that?

Anyone going into a hospital now, is temperature checked - thats right, and if they have even a slightly elevated temp - they get tested for Covid - That my Friend is the "covid Related" your genius friend is spouting on and in about.

essentially the test costs are covered - that portion is covid related, and its coded that way on the charts, and the payment system deals with the special regs.

Does that mean they charge the whole visit to Covid? is that what this guy is claiming? because i did not interpret his words that way.

Interesting too - who is this guy, what company does he work for? in what capacity? all of those things are important , hiding behind anonymity and spouting out a bunch of stuff he apparently does not understand - that seems to me to disqualify him from being an "expert".

I guess I'll reserve judgement until I see those magic letters informing people they are covid positive. funny , when I have had my tests, they always call on the phone, did they ever receive a call saying they were positive? seems to me it's bad practice to wait the 3-5 days for the mail to be delivered, while a positive case is roaming around not knowing if they are positive!

caj13 - 7-19-2020 at 09:42 AM

so JZ: there are some issues with your latest "story": according to you:
You can choose to believe me or not. I would never lie. I do not like Trump.

"30 mins ago my wife told me this story. One of her long time colleagues, from the last 15 years across a couple companies, told her that him and 7 of his friends went to get tested recently. He is a black guy. Nice guy.

They were at a party and later learned that someone had it. They waited in line for an hour and forty five mins in Ventura and gave up.

All received letters in the mail that they tested positive."

either the recipients of the letter are incapable of reading english, or your wife got the story wrong, or someone is trying to morph the story into something it is not.

The people in question obviously were contacted by a Contact Tracer - following up on a positive test of some idiot at the party (which idiot? who knows, but anyone at the party officially qualifies for that title IMHO) .
anyway :. The information they got was that someone at the party had tested positive, and they had been exposed, so they needed to be tested!

and just as an aside, what happened to the original story of the 2 people were notified - I keep getting confused, is this the same story or a different one?

Playing Ring around the Covid

MrBillM - 7-19-2020 at 09:48 AM

Face it.

"The Die is cast."

"The Train has left the station."

"The Horse has left the barn."

And the erratic attempts to (sort of) resume work, school, travel and play normality are going to bump along forwards and back, side to side as so-called Hotspots develop and consequent stress is applied to the medical system.

Until November, there won't be ANY politicos in competitive races willing to toss the dice hoping that the numbers will come up right for them.

All of this obsessive debate and diagnosis is just so much mental masturbation. Enjoyable, but affecting nothing.

Wear a mask whenever you may come into near proximity of others. Maintain distance as practicable. Use appropriate daily preventive meds e.g. 12-24 ounces of Stella Artois (or equivalent) + 1-2 ounces of Jamesons.

As one who travels about freely (but cautiously) and a member of the most vulnerable group, following the above regimen has resulted (so far) in immunity from the virus.

Or, maybe, it's just dumb luck.

As DT says "what's the harm ?"

JZ - 7-19-2020 at 09:54 AM

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/07/fact-check-dr-vic...

so JZ: there are some issues with your latest "story": according to you:
You can choose to believe me or not. I would never lie. I do not like Trump.

"30 mins ago my wife told me this story. One of her long time colleagues, from the last 15 years across a couple companies, told her that him and 7 of his friends went to get tested recently. He is a black guy. Nice guy.

They were at a party and later learned that someone had it. They waited in line for an hour and forty five mins in Ventura and gave up.

All received letters in the mail that they tested positive."

either the recipients of the letter are incapable of reading english, or your wife got the story wrong, or someone is trying to morph the story into something it is not.

The people in question obviously were contacted by a Contact Tracer - following up on a positive test of some idiot at the party (which idiot? who knows, but anyone at the party officially qualifies for that title IMHO) .
anyway :. The information they got was that someone at the party had tested positive, and they had been exposed, so they needed to be tested!

and just as an aside, what happened to the original story of the 2 people were notified - I keep getting confused, is this the same story or a different one?

2 separation incidents of fake positives. Well, actually 10.

Dr. Kelly Victory on COVID-19

TMW - 7-20-2020 at 03:02 PM

Dr. Victory practices in San Diego and she talks about the coronavirus. It is an interesting presentation with a lot of info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2rbIDYczvY&feature=shar...

4x4abc - 7-20-2020 at 04:23 PM

the good doctor is confusing/mixing #of cases and #of tests
stopped watching after that display of authority

There are people sick enough to be treated, recovered and active (Cases). And then there are people who have been tested, possibly multiple times (Tests). Both are always listed separately in published graphs.

Screen Shot 2020-07-20 at 4.57.35 PM.png - 122kB

SFandH - 7-20-2020 at 04:30 PM

Also, she emphasizes the fact that most people are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms only but never mentions they are also carriers of the infection that could infect and cause harm to others. I may have missed it, but I don't think she considered that in coming to her conclusions.

But then again, she is a doctor.............

[Edited on 7-20-2020 by SFandH]

RFClark - 7-20-2020 at 06:35 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/01/covid-19-vaccine-from-pf...

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-exactly-where-w...

Generally non political news on Virus treatment and prevention!

The glass is half empty folks don’t need to read it.!

elgatoloco - 7-20-2020 at 07:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

Dr. Victory practices in San Diego and she talks about the coronavirus. It is an interesting presentation with a lot of info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2rbIDYczvY&feature=shar...

JZ - 7-20-2020 at 10:23 PM

SFandH - 7-21-2020 at 08:48 AM