BajaNomad

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mtgoat666 - 10-12-2020 at 10:24 AM

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

JZ - 10-12-2020 at 12:44 PM

Don't be shy, go ahead and say what you really mean.

Any of us who celebrate Columbus Day and/or don’t want statues torn down or cities to be renamed are white supremacist racists.

David K - 10-12-2020 at 01:54 PM

Right, history was never meant to be only about good events.
It is the learning from bad events that makes us a better nation.
Erasing the "bad" events from the books and removing statues of "bad" people, doesn't change the past... it only promotes the bad to happen again.

>>>Learn your history or else you will be condemned to repeat it!

There is a certain banned Nomad who almost weekly pops back using a new handle who often condemns my books, claiming it glorifies an 'evil period' in Baja's history. Not in the slightest! I only report the details, as best we know them, so these churches and ruins all over Baja have some additional purpose: to not just entertain but to also educate and increase awareness.

Knowledge is not evil, ignorance is!

BajaTed - 10-12-2020 at 02:08 PM

1st nation native people is the politically correct term

Indigenous people haven't been happy for a quite while.

The "Manifest Destiny" of the continental states will never be apologized for or understood by anyone of eurocentric background.



apple - 10-12-2020 at 02:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Right, history was never meant to be only about good events.
It is the learning from bad events that makes us a better nation.
Erasing the "bad" events from the books and removing statues of "bad" people, doesn't change the past... it only promotes the bad to happen again.

Too often in America we willfully ignore the "bad events" that are the foundation of our country. Indigenous People's Day is a chance commemorate the suffering that native people experienced in the wake of Christopher Columbus's exploration of North America.

pacificobob - 10-12-2020 at 02:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Don't be shy, go ahead and say what you really mean.

Any of us who celebrate Columbus Day and/or don’t want statues torn down or cities to be renamed are white supremacist racists.


if the shoe fits.......

David K - 10-12-2020 at 02:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by apple  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Right, history was never meant to be only about good events.
It is the learning from bad events that makes us a better nation.
Erasing the "bad" events from the books and removing statues of "bad" people, doesn't change the past... it only promotes the bad to happen again.

Too often in America we willfully ignore the "bad events" that are the foundation of our country. Indigenous People's Day is a chance commemorate the suffering that native people experienced in the wake of Christopher Columbus's exploration of North America.


You do know that bad things happened to Indians (North American Natives) long before old Chris showed up? If not Columbus, then the next one to come along. Blaming Columbus for all the ills of a foreign invasion is really small thinking.

apple - 10-12-2020 at 03:05 PM

I don't see where I blamed Columbus for "all of the ills of a foreign invasion".

And, I'm sure life was not all sunshine and butterflies in North America prior to European colonization, but it probably wasn't as bad as the genocide that accompanied colonization.

mtgoat666 - 10-12-2020 at 03:23 PM

Can’t you all just enjoy indigenous day without squabbling?

David K - 10-12-2020 at 04:10 PM

apple, I wasn't directing the answer at you but at all those who have blamed Columbus for the ills of European conquest.

mtgoat666 - 10-12-2020 at 04:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
apple, I wasn't directing the answer at you but at all those who have blamed Columbus for the ills of European conquest.


While I posted this thread to honor indigenous peoples,... you have despoiled it by defending Columbus.

On his first voyage in 1492, Columbus landed on an unknown Caribbean island after a three-month journey. On his first day in the New World, he ordered six of the natives to be seized, writing in his journal that he believed they would be good servants.
Columbus was the first European slave owner in the new world.

Why should a convicted child trafficker receive a statue?

Ken Cooke - 10-12-2020 at 04:22 PM

It's not about removal from 'history' or some lame conservative talking point. It's celebrating a child trafficker, and someone who tortured an entire island's population, inducing suicide until everyone died - and then giving him a statue and an annual parade that I don't understand.

To the Winner Goes the Spoils ?

MrBillM - 10-12-2020 at 05:59 PM

But the losers got to Horse around a lot.

Along with (now) Casinos and Heap Big Wampum !

So, it all evens out.

wessongroup - 10-12-2020 at 06:34 PM

Comparing social Norms and Mores 1492 and 2020 is a bit much

At that time is was normal to achieve "Conquest" of lands ... with very little concerns for the people losing their land and Culture ... the Moores were just then "leaving" the Iberian Peninsula .. which they had invaded and taken over

I wasn't involved in any of that .... and being punished for my Fathers Sins isn't Legal nor Moral .. IMO

btw ... my wife is 47% Native American and 49% Iberian Peninsula and I've never had a racist thought about her or her relatives .. or anyone else ... I usually go by ... Is the individual a JERK or NOT :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 10-13-2020 by wessongroup]

mtgoat666 - 10-12-2020 at 06:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup  


btw ... my wife is 47% Native American and 49% Iberian Peninsula and I've never had a racist thought about her or her relatives .. or anyone else ... I usually go by ... Is the individual a JERK or NOT :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 10-13-2020 by wessongroup]


What is the other 4%? Salamander?

wessongroup - 10-12-2020 at 08:32 PM

European ... :biggrin::biggrin:

surabi - 10-12-2020 at 10:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup  
Comparing social Norms and Mores 1492 and 2020 is a bit much

At that time is was normal to achieve "Conquest" of lands ... with very little concerns for the people losing their land and Culture ... the Moores were just then "leaving" the Iberian Peninsula .. which they had invaded and taken over

I wasn't involved in any of that .... and being punished for my Fathers Sins isn't Legal nor Moral .. IMO

btw ... my wife is 47% Native American and 49% Iberian Peninsula and I've never had a racist thought about her or her relatives .. or anyone else ... I usually go by ... Is the individual a JERK or NOT :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 10-13-2020 by wessongroup]


The "Moores"? I love it when someone posts something they think is intelligent and highlight their ignorance.

del mar - 10-12-2020 at 11:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup  
Comparing social Norms and Mores 1492 and 2020 is a bit much

At that time is was normal to achieve "Conquest" of lands ... with very little concerns for the people losing their land and Culture ... the Moores were just then "leaving" the Iberian Peninsula .. which they had invaded and taken over

I wasn't involved in any of that .... and being punished for my Fathers Sins isn't Legal nor Moral .. IMO

btw ... my wife is 47% Native American and 49% Iberian Peninsula and I've never had a racist thought about her or her relatives .. or anyone else ... I usually go by ... Is the individual a JERK or NOT :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 10-13-2020 by wessongroup]


The "Moores"? I love it when someone posts something they think is intelligent and highlight their ignorance.


KAPOW!:lol:

wessongroup - 10-12-2020 at 11:56 PM

Got it ... History is invalid :lol::lol:

"The fall of Granada in 1492 marked the end of Muslim rule in Spain, although a Muslim minority persisted until their expulsion in 1609.[10]"

btw there were a lot of folks in that general time period who believed the earth was FLAT .. another reason the comparing the thinking at that time with current thinking is disingenuous at best

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors#:~:text=The%20Moors%20we...

Gee, wonder how the Islamic folks took over this "region" .... history indicates by "Conquest" ... Think of Tours France :biggrin::biggrin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

Thanks for the opportunity to demonstrate the ignorance and anal-retentive thinking which is so readily shared here :biggrin::biggrin:
Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup  
Comparing social Norms and Mores 1492 and 2020 is a bit much

At that time is was normal to achieve "Conquest" of lands ... with very little concerns for the people losing their land and Culture ... the Moores were just then "leaving" the Iberian Peninsula .. which they had invaded and taken over

I wasn't involved in any of that .... and being punished for my Fathers Sins isn't Legal nor Moral .. IMO

btw ... my wife is 47% Native American and 49% Iberian Peninsula and I've never had a racist thought about her or her relatives .. or anyone else ... I usually go by ... Is the individual a JERK or NOT :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 10-13-2020 by wessongroup]


The "Moores"? I love it when someone posts something they think is intelligent and highlight their ignorance.


KAPOW!:lol:






[Edited on 10-13-2020 by wessongroup]

pacificobob - 10-13-2020 at 07:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke  
It's not about removal from 'history' or some lame conservative talking point. It's celebrating a child trafficker, and someone who tortured an entire island's population, inducing suicide until everyone died - and then giving him a statue and an annual parade that I don't understand.


spot on ken

StuckSucks - 10-13-2020 at 09:21 AM

This is an informative video about Columbus Day, how it came about. Non-preachy.

Why the US celebrates Columbus Day

John Harper - 10-13-2020 at 09:59 AM

Currently reading "Undaunted Courage" by Stephen Ambrose about the Lewis and Clark expedition. They passed by many deserted native villages on the way up the Missouri River. All were decimated by smallpox. In addition, the rest of the native population was already afflicted with syphilis on a massive scale. Many of the party became infected as well due to relations with native women.

John



[Edited on 10-13-2020 by John Harper]

David K - 10-13-2020 at 10:23 AM

What's next, Walt Disney was a pedophile?
Will this new generation have anything good to celebrate from the past?

mtgoat666 - 10-13-2020 at 10:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
What's next, Walt Disney was a pedophile?
Will this new generation have anything good to celebrate from the past?


I am sure we can find something good to celebrate from our past. I am also sure that it is wrong to celebrate bad things from our past. You can learn from your mistakes, but you should not celebrate your mistakes, especially when your mistakes are barbaric crimes against humanity.

AKgringo - 10-13-2020 at 10:42 AM

Not sure about Disney, but that Saint Nicholas guy sounds pretty creepy. Making a list of which kids are naughty or nice? Sneaking into their rooms at night?

And what about his helpers....were they paid well for their efforts, or just forced to do "the man's" work? :fire:

pacificobob - 10-13-2020 at 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
What's next, Walt Disney was a pedophile?
Will this new generation have anything good to celebrate from the past?


disney a pedo? don't know. but, he had a we deserved reputation as an antisemitic.

[Edited on 10-13-2020 by pacificobob]

John Harper - 10-13-2020 at 10:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Not sure about Disney, but that Saint Nicholas guy sounds pretty creepy. Making a list of which kids are naughty or nice? Sneaking into their rooms at night?

And what about his helpers....were they paid well for their efforts, or just forced to do "the man's" work? :fire:


Don't forget Krampus, who carried off bad children. Maybe QAnon can help out with that one.

John

[Edited on 10-13-2020 by John Harper]

David K - 10-13-2020 at 10:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Not sure about Disney, but that Saint Nicholas guy sounds pretty creepy. Making a list of which kids are naughty or nice? Sneaking into their rooms at night?

And what about his helpers....were they paid well for their efforts, or just forced to do "the man's" work? :fire:


LOL, good point!
Let's just erase all history and remake the mistakes all over again!
Some here don't understand that memorials of the past don't need to be for only politically correct events.