BajaNomad

Baja Travel After Christmas???

fishmaster - 11-17-2020 at 10:42 AM

Greetings,
I'm starting to gear up for my annual trip to Baja. Plan was to leave a couple days after Christmas and spend three week, but I am nervous I'll purchase the insurance, fishing licenses and tourist permits only to have the border close completely with this recent COVID spike.
What do you guys think? Will they completely close the border if this spike continues or will they continue to leave it open for essential travel?
Thanks for your advice.
Steve

gnukid - 11-17-2020 at 01:36 PM

It will be open to enter Mexico if you can pass USA border

You can purchase and print Ins, FMM, Fishing license all the night before you leave, I always do.



[Edited on 11-17-2020 by gnukid]

shari - 11-18-2020 at 11:06 AM

It appears that even when we hear the border is closed & essential travel only from US sources...it is not the case here in Baja. Not one guest that arrived in the last 3 months to Bahia Asuncion has had any problems at all traveling even though they are obviously tourists with fishing, camping gear, trailers, boats etc. They have had their temperatures taken at the border by Guerrero Negro and thats it.

I guess things could change but I doubt it.

BajaBlanca - 11-18-2020 at 11:23 AM

There are zero issues with coming south.

There are still signs everywhere that SAY that the beaches are closed, but they aren't.

Our local cooperative is packed full the entire month of November with a fishing group. When we go to the restaurant, we hear them chatting away sounding soooooooooo happy!

We have been consistently busy, but with smaller groups, for the last couple months.

People tell me our safety measures are stricter than in the States? Every restaurant and our local grocery store has a foot step to sterilize shoes and everyone must wear a mask inside when not eating and the whole time in the market. Everyone gels hands upon entering almost any establishment. We just got back from Loreto, it was great, every place I felt safe.

JZ - 11-18-2020 at 06:27 PM

Go and have fun. Post some pictures and stories about your trip.

medium Cool - 11-18-2020 at 10:21 PM

I agree with the general opinion here. Things south are pretty much good to go, but with protocol to keep things as clean as possible.
There seems to be serious evidence that if you are comprimised in some way, maybe you should take a siesta until this is over. Otherwise travel with enjoyment and take precaution to make sure people around you feel safe.
As always, respect the local vibe, most folks south of the border are excited to see this end, as we are. I am not thinking going south will be an issue, that said there's another sherriff in town soon, coming north who knows

mtgoat666 - 11-19-2020 at 12:22 AM

As of today, in USA:
Over 250,000 dead
Over 3,000,000 actively infected and contagious

I am amused at the general populace not believing the severity. It reminds me of the 1950s, 60 and 70s, when people ignored evidence that smoking kills.... took several decades for people to wise up, ban smoking indoors in public, and quit smoking....

And remember when cars did not have seat belts as standard? Now I would not think about riding in a car w/o a seat belt...

Go to Mexico, have fun,... some of you will catch covid in Mexico, some of you will spread Covid in Mexico small towns where there is no medical care... Many of you will dodge the bullet, some of you won’t. Don’t worry, be happy.

[Edited on 11-19-2020 by mtgoat666]

JZ - 11-19-2020 at 12:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
As of today, in USA:
Over 250,000 dead
Over 3,000,000 actively infected and contagious

I am amused at the general populace not believing the severity. It reminds me of the 1950s, 60 and 70s, when people ignored evidence that smoking kills.... took several decades for people to wise up, ban smoking indoors in public, and quit smoking....

And remember when cars did not have seat belts as standard? Now I would not think about riding in a car w/o a seat belt...

Go to Mexico, have fun,... some of you will catch covid in Mexico, some of you will spread Covid in Mexico small towns where there is no medical care... Many of you will dodge the bullet, some of you won’t. Don’t worry, be happy.

[Edited on 11-19-2020 by mtgoat666]


Follow the science, listen to the doctors.

This is what the WHO says:



"The only time we believe a lockdown in justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources; protect your health workers who are exhausted," Dr Nabarro said.

"But by and large, we'd rather not do it."

Dr Nabarro told The Spectator the economic impact on small countries that rely on tourism and increased poverty levels are two major effects of shutting communities down.

"We really do appeal to all world leaders, stop using lockdown as your primary method of control," he said.

"Lockdowns have just one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer."

Skipjack Joe - 11-19-2020 at 06:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
As of today, in USA:
Over 250,000 dead
Over 3,000,000 actively infected and contagious

I am amused at the general populace not believing the severity. It reminds me of the 1950s, 60 and 70s, when people ignored evidence that smoking kills.... took several decades for people to wise up, ban smoking indoors in public, and quit smoking....

And remember when cars did not have seat belts as standard? Now I would not think about riding in a car w/o a seat belt...

Go to Mexico, have fun,... some of you will catch covid in Mexico, some of you will spread Covid in Mexico small towns where there is no medical care... Many of you will dodge the bullet, some of you won’t. Don’t worry, be happy.

[Edited on 11-19-2020 by mtgoat666]


Wait for Thanksgiving. The numbers will go through the roof. And the vaccine will not be available for Christmas. As Betty Davis said - it's going to be a bumpy ride.

mtgoat666 - 11-19-2020 at 07:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
As of today, in USA:
Over 250,000 dead
Over 3,000,000 actively infected and contagious

I am amused at the general populace not believing the severity. It reminds me of the 1950s, 60 and 70s, when people ignored evidence that smoking kills.... took several decades for people to wise up, ban smoking indoors in public, and quit smoking....

And remember when cars did not have seat belts as standard? Now I would not think about riding in a car w/o a seat belt...

Go to Mexico, have fun,... some of you will catch covid in Mexico, some of you will spread Covid in Mexico small towns where there is no medical care... Many of you will dodge the bullet, some of you won’t. Don’t worry, be happy.

[Edited on 11-19-2020 by mtgoat666]


Wait for Thanksgiving. The numbers will go through the roof. And the vaccine will not be available for Christmas. As Betty Davis said - it's going to be a bumpy ride.


Some hospitals are already maxed out with covid patients in ICU. People wont be happy when their non-priority loved ones are assigned ventilators and treatment based on priority, with non-priority left to die w/o attempts of treatment due to lack of resources.
All of this could have been avoided if people practiced what the public health professionals were recommending....

But trump admin has been dismissing covid guidance for many months. Their example of blatant disregard for pandemic has been adopted by the trump base, and now we are here amidst a massive surge and over 250,000 dead.

Why does no one in trump base care about 250,000 dead? Over 5x greater than typical flu.

John Harper - 11-19-2020 at 09:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Why does no one in trump base care about 250,000 dead? Over 5x greater than typical flu.


They are more concerned with controlling women's uterus and reproductive rights. Once born, they say "Go to Hell," of course.

John

Skipjack Joe - 11-19-2020 at 12:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Why does no one in trump base care about 250,000 dead? Over 5x greater than typical flu.


Trump has taken a lot of flak over this and rightly so but there are some good things he did that aren't mentioned by the left.

The vaccines were created in unprecedented record time. Ok, maybe he shouldn't get credit for that. But Operation Warp Speed is something he should get credit for. Either of the two vaccines should be at hospitals and pharmacies within days after the FDA approves them. He allocated hundreds of millions of dollars for the development of the vaccines and manufactured tens of millions of vaccines without prior knowledge whether they would be effective. That's really thinking ahead and taking responsibility on that level. Perhaps historians will balance that positive against his lack of leadership in containing the virus.

JZ - 11-19-2020 at 12:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Why does no one in trump base care about 250,000 dead? Over 5x greater than typical flu.


Trump has taken a lot of flak over this and rightly so but there are some good things he did that aren't mentioned by the left.

The vaccines were created in unprecedented record time. Ok, maybe he shouldn't get credit for that. But Operation Warp Speed is something he should get credit for. Either of the two vaccines should be at hospitals and pharmacies within days after the FDA approves them. He allocated hundreds of millions of dollars for the development of the vaccines and manufactured tens of millions of vaccines without prior knowledge whether they would be effective. That's really thinking ahead and taking responsibility on that level. Perhaps historians will balance that positive against his lack of leadership in containing the virus.


Take the political bullchit to the political forum. Let's talk about Baja.

Mr. Bills - 11-19-2020 at 12:30 PM

I, for one, am looking forward to the opportunity for another visit to Baja after the holidays and especially to Bahia Asuncion and perhaps to La Bocana this time.

My age now puts me in the higher risk group, but I have no preexisting health issues that would put me at greater risk. We'll see how things go in the States and in Baja between now and then. Hopefully the vacation trip can happen.

The good news that I gather from the Goatman's posts is that he won't be in Baja anytime soon. That means one less person infecting the Baja peninsula with needless, mindless, vitriolic political rants. I think we all need a vacation from that.

John Harper - 11-19-2020 at 12:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

Take the political bullchit to the political forum.


Pot, meet kettle.

John

Lengua - 11-20-2020 at 09:11 PM

Hard to buy in to opinions provided by folks who have establishments in Baja like Shari and Baja Blanca when their livelihood's depend on tourism.....Wouldn't want to get Covid in Baja and depend on getting a bed in a hospital if needed .

fishmaster - 11-23-2020 at 10:45 AM

Thanks for the feedback gang. I feel fine about travel as I believe that acting safely can keep you safe no matter what you do. COVID will just be another level of safety that I practice in Baja. As long as the border doesn't completely shut, I'll be posting a report after the New Year.
Thanks!
Steve

JZ - 11-23-2020 at 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fishmaster  
Thanks for the feedback gang. I feel fine about travel as I believe that acting safely can keep you safe no matter what you do. COVID will just be another level of safety that I practice in Baja. As long as the border doesn't completely shut, I'll be posting a report after the New Year.
Thanks!
Steve


Good approach. Have fun and stay safe.



[Edited on 11-23-2020 by JZ]

Allwaters - 12-20-2020 at 06:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

Take the political bullchit to the political forum.


Pot, meet kettle.

John


Well said- Giess! Si' Hai Genki dess! Mahalo!

motoged - 12-20-2020 at 11:11 AM

It is fascinating to see so many interpretations of the term "essential" when it comes to traveling these days.

"Do what makes you feel good" seems like a fairly selfish standard for social responsibility..... not difficult to see which Nomads subscribe to such thinking.

Oh well..... :rolleyes:

Mr. Bills - 12-20-2020 at 12:33 PM

From the Cambridge English Dictionary:

essential
adjective
US /ɪˈsen·ʃəl/

extremely important or necessary


It seems from this definition of the word that essential can be defined objectively or subjectively.

What you may consider un-necessary may be extremely important to me and essential to my well-being.

In the U.S., where we have a Constitution that guarantees personal freedom and sets limits on the tyranny of government, a subjective interpretation carries equal weight in many situations.

In Mexico and other jurisdictions that do not have constitutions that effectively limit government power it is the government's definition of the word that counts, not yours or mine.

I might be inclined to follow the Mexican government's position on tourist travel but as is often the case with governments, the government of Mexico is sending mixed messages to tourists.

So I wait.

Bajaboy - 12-20-2020 at 12:34 PM

Left a check point yesterday and noticed the car behind me with South Dakota plates. The car rolls to a stop and not once person puts on a mask. We were speechless!

Cancamo - 12-20-2020 at 12:39 PM

Pendejos Gabachos!

Mr. Bills - 12-20-2020 at 12:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Left a check point yesterday and noticed the car behind me with South Dakota plates. The car rolls to a stop and not once person puts on a mask. We were speechless!


Did you engage in virtue signaling and/or social shaming or did you mind your own business, take care of yourself as best you could, and carry on?

I hope the latter. The last election cycle coupled with the pandemic has resulted in enough manifestations of imagined moral superiority in our society to last me a lifetime.

And yes, I do wear a mask when in proximity to other humans when outside my home. Whether others do the same is up to them (or the Mexican authorities in the above example), not me.

Bajaboy - 12-20-2020 at 05:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Bills  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Left a check point yesterday and noticed the car behind me with South Dakota plates. The car rolls to a stop and not once person puts on a mask. We were speechless!


Did you engage in virtue signaling and/or social shaming or did you mind your own business, take care of yourself as best you could, and carry on?

I hope the latter. The last election cycle coupled with the pandemic has resulted in enough manifestations of imagined moral superiority in our society to last me a lifetime.

And yes, I do wear a mask when in proximity to other humans when outside my home. Whether others do the same is up to them (or the Mexican authorities in the above example), not me.


Just kept driving...

Bajazly - 12-20-2020 at 06:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Left a check point yesterday and noticed the car behind me with South Dakota plates. The car rolls to a stop and not once person puts on a mask. We were speechless!


Damn South Dakotans taking their lax pandemic response SOB :(:(

Bajaboy - 12-20-2020 at 09:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Left a check point yesterday and noticed the car behind me with South Dakota plates. The car rolls to a stop and not once person puts on a mask. We were speechless!


Damn South Dakotans taking their lax pandemic response SOB :(:(


Thought the same thing at first...but then figured it might be a full timer from Baja. Regardless, at this point in the game, we should all be wearing masks in said situations. I don't think it's too much to ask for.

Mother of Dragons - 12-21-2020 at 07:26 AM

I’ve been down to baja twice since the border was closed for “essential travel” only and had zero issues going into Baja or coming back to states. If that helps.

motoged - 12-21-2020 at 01:02 PM

Helps with what? :?:

BajaTed - 12-22-2020 at 02:06 PM

Gee; troops approach S.D. car that has window(s) open and one of them speaks back and forth calmly with a mask from some distance to single or multiple occupant(s) of car without mask(s) while standing outdoors.
The mental model of that situation says to me the possibility of transmission is very negligible and they did mumble pendejo gabacho's when done though.

Alm - 12-22-2020 at 04:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  

The mental model of that situation says to me the possibility of transmission is very negligible and they did mumble pendejo gabacho's when done though.

You mean, the car occupants "think" that the possibility of transmission is negligible :). Do not despair, a more transmissible strain of the virus is on the way. 40-something countries banned the flights from UK yesterday or today. Mexico and USA are not on the list.

caj13 - 12-23-2020 at 10:05 AM

I love it - deniers - they do not have the ability to allow evidence, fact, information EVER change their political and personal agenda! Their cognitive dissonance is complete!

Remember when guys here were spouting - it;'s just the flu, get over it. And then posting graphs saying the worst was over, the numbers were going down? and the guys who posted that this would all go away in the summer - and when that didn't happen, it would all vanish November 3rd?

remember when we could cure this with sunshine up your butthole, and huffing lysol and mainlining bleach! and the miracle cure hydroxychloroquine? Masks were bullchit, magical "lockdowns" with cops patrolling keeping you in your house!

we could go on and on how many times some people here have been wrong - consistently, completely wrong, and every time they were wrong - it was a result of their personal biases not allowing them to make reasoned informed decisions! And the best part is the blow whatever legitimacy they have conjuring up bogus laughable excuse and conspiracy theories, then move on to their next spout off!

And now - we are still looking for the acceptable number of deaths from them! 25,000 was a mere drop in the bucket, 100,000 - hell they were dying anyway, 300,000, as long as its not me - who cares,

caj13 - 12-24-2020 at 09:56 AM

so just as food for thought, or a cautionary tale.
a single person not taking the recommended (and mandated) precautions.

7 people dead, 300 isolated - but by God - that individual proved how stupid these restrictions are!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/23/us/oregon-covid-superspreader...

Terry28 - 12-24-2020 at 11:03 AM

caj13, nailed it!!

Covid 19 in my county

AKgringo - 12-24-2020 at 11:44 AM

Nevada county is slightly smaller than the Oregon county 666 cited, at about 100,000. The median age is 49, and senior living and care facilities are a large part of the demographics.

In the last few months, the number of positive tests has exploded! There have now been 44 confirmed covid deaths, and according to local news reports, almost all of them are senior citizens!

Here is a link if anyone is interested; https://mynevadacounty.com/2924/Coronavirus

caj13 - 12-24-2020 at 11:54 AM

David, one case does not define the issue. i don't care how many people you know with covid, because i know 17 million people here in the USA have had or have the disease, and 325,000 are dead. what happens to your buddy is one of millions of data points, each carries the same statistical weight.

Its attitudes from people with the same mind set as you , who ignore or minimize risk , that are a major contributor to the problem. - and that was my point in posting the article. A single individual ignored following guidelines. He Killed 7 people so far and 300 more are sick! Get clue man!

David K - 12-24-2020 at 11:58 AM

Guess you didn't read my post? My "mind set" is to not travel during Covid.

motoged - 12-24-2020 at 12:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Guess you didn't read my post? My "mind set" is to not travel during Covid.


I read your post several times to make sure I didn't miss something. What I saw was a report about you missing a tv spot (not essential, even for a look-at-me type of individual) and missing your short trips to Baja.

I also read : "Nobody wants to be sick but this hyper-fear that everyone has may be unwarranted unless you are old or have pre-existing conditions." .... a clear minimization of risk and insult to those who follow recommended health guidelines.

Your tone seems to be one still rolling through the denier cult....

Please don't pretend to say I misunderstood anything here.

But thank you for staying closer to home than some other Nomads.

Merry Christmas.

Mr. Bills - 12-24-2020 at 12:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
. . . 17 million people here in the USA have had or have the disease, and 325,000 are dead. . . .


I am 70. I am not travelling. I am staying home as much as possible. I choose to wear a mask when I am out and in proximity to others. In other words, I do my best to take care of myself and I do my best not to put others at unreasonable risk of harm - not because Gavin Newsom told me to but because that is the way most people already behave in normal civilized society.

I am not saying this for any pats on the back. I am saying it in order to avoid politicization of my post or being another victim of an unsolicited diatribe on social responsibility.

However, what I would like to point out is that the statistics cited by caj13, 325,000 dead out of 17 million who have contracted the Covid-19 virus, if true works out to an overall Covid-related death rate of 1.9 %.

Each of us needs to answer for ourselves whether shutting down society and the entire worldwide economy is a proportionate response for a disease with a 1.9% death rate, or whether there might be other less draconian alternatives. Perhaps then we can engage in some meaningful discussion rather than remain intransigent in our positions which gets us nowhere.

Feliz Navidad, Nomads, here's to a healthy and happy post-holiday season and new year.

caj13 - 12-24-2020 at 04:00 PM

Mr. Bills, the 1.9% death rate is certainly acceptable to me - If - I'm not part of the 1.9%., AND you are!

see how that works! as long as it doesn't affect me, who cares if someone else dies! in this case, Mr. Bills was the acceptable sacrifice! ;)

Mr. Bills - 12-24-2020 at 04:03 PM

You really are a dick.

Merry Christmas to everyone. Except you and Gavin Newsom.

Bajaboy - 12-24-2020 at 06:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I didn't go to Mexico at all in 2020, the first year in over 22 years without a visit to the land I love!
Two trips planned were cancelled. One was for a TV show. All due to Covid and the travel ban for NON-ESSENTIAL travel.
Now, it is also a matter of precaution and self-well-being that we do not travel.

Of the hundreds of people I know, only one reported he got the disease and has been reporting on his conditions for the past 12 days of the 14 he has off from work for it. It is (for him) no worse than a bad flu (maybe the worst he has had) with a loss of taste and smell plus other typical flu symptoms. He is an EMT an no, he has not taken any of the exotic treatments to speed up recovery.

Nobody wants to be sick but this hyper-fear that everyone has may be unwarranted unless you are old or have pre-existing conditions.


David, got word last night that one of my student's father died of Covid a few days ago. Glad you're friend is okay.

caj13 - 12-24-2020 at 08:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Bills  
You really are a dick.

Merry Christmas to everyone. Except you and Gavin Newsom.


why are you so mad? I agreed with your premise completely? what about that makes me a Dick?

Happy Festivus & Chanukah to you and your family!

BajaNomad - 12-25-2020 at 10:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Bills  

I would like to point out is that the statistics cited... 325,000 dead out of 17 million who have contracted the Covid-19 virus, if true works out to an overall Covid-related death rate of 1.9 %.

Each of us needs to answer for ourselves whether shutting down society and the entire worldwide economy is a proportionate response for a disease with a 1.9% death rate...


I believe you've missed the part about extrapolating what the death rate will be once ICU beds in care facilities run out? Since March the intent was to flatten the curve to insure the best outcome for most people and keep the death rate as low as possible.

"ICU availability in Southern California at 0%, and it’s going to get worse, officials warn"
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-17/southern...

Now over 79.5M global Covid-19 cases confirmed; nearly 18.7M in USA and 1.4M in Mexico (which is not conducting widespread testing). 1.7M global deaths; 330k USA deaths; 121k Mexico deaths.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h...

Bajaboy - 12-25-2020 at 05:17 PM

Blows my mind the things that are deleted here and what is not...seems like any time David gets called out, the posts are deleted

Bajaboy - 12-25-2020 at 10:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
It's Christmas Zac, even if you don't believe in it... I remove stuff that is only used by those on the left who spin it or I know it has been read. Why keep that stuff on the forum? How does it make Nomad better? If only the other side had the grace to remove their stuff, full of hate or name calling... using skin color to insult someone is just so wrong.


Yes DK, let me know if you need money for your back brace. Cheers from Baja.

John Harper - 12-26-2020 at 08:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
Blows my mind the things that are deleted here and what is not...seems like any time David gets called out, the posts are deleted


Well, since we do get to post here for free, no reason to complain if your posts get deleted once in a while. Mine certainly do, doesn't bother me as it just proves the old saying, "truth hurts." Our 1st Amendment rights do not exist on a privately run forum. I'm okay with that.

As a soon to be former "leader" of the free world says, "It is what it is."

John

caj13 - 12-26-2020 at 08:53 AM

I get deleted alot, every time I point out David's logical fallacies and his lack of fact in his right wing nut posts, I get deleted. Obviously, if you have no answer, the solution is to delete the truth, so you can keep pretending! I see it as a clear admission of incompetence and ignorance by the deleter!

You got no legitimate defense or answer - delete the truth! Nice MO David - who did you steal that from? look back in your history books, I'm sure a few excellent examples will come to light!

Lee - 12-26-2020 at 11:05 AM

Look, I get deleted too. Figure it was something I wrote and crossed the line about, strayed off subject. Not my forum and don't make the rules so nothing personal.

I'm with DK on not traveling at this time. Doesn't mean forever, just let things play out a bit before jumping in.

''You want a N-zi government to dictate your every step rather than being responsible for your own actions, as most grown-ups are capable of. Americans are a free people and we have been masked and socially distanced. Thanks to Trump's quick response and Project Warp Speed we have an antidote in less than a year...
'' blah blah blah.

The above is divisive and makes things worse. DK doesn't see that. The country was divided before and the clown in the WH has made it worse. Yup, time to go.

Still, DK is our DK and he's not his misguided politics.

motoged - 12-26-2020 at 11:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Look, I get deleted too. Figure it was something I wrote and crossed the line about, strayed off subject. Not my forum and don't make the rules so nothing personal.

I'm with DK on not traveling at this time. Doesn't mean forever, just let things play out a bit before jumping in.

''You want a N-zi government to dictate ...
'' blah blah blah.

Still, DK is our DK and he's not his misguided politics.


It is a bit of comforting info to see that other folks's posts get deleted as well as mine....I was starting to take it personally.....:wow:

"ad hominem attacks on individuals" get deleted is The Word.... but being called a dick is okay.

Grade one reader:
"Look at Dick. Dick and Jane have a dog. The dog is called Spot. Run, Spot, run.

Oh, Spot just peed on a post. Spot is a bad dog.

Spot needs to respect posts and not pee on them....
Maybe Spot should not be out of the house..."

:biggrin:

P.S. David seems angrier than usual lately with more frequent references to n-zis.... I think he IS his politics, and the election results have been distressing for him. Let's give David a break from inviting him to consider his alliances and just thank him for maps. They are sometimes helpful for those of us who don't rely on gps (although I do use such devices at times...).

[Edited on 12-26-2020 by motoged]

gnukid - 12-26-2020 at 12:10 PM

At Baja Nomads we moved on from fact-checking to fat checking...

surfhat - 12-26-2020 at 02:12 PM

"If you find yourself making excuses and justifications for child molesters, rapists, sexual assaulters, gropers, con men, liars, draft dodgers, pedophiles, N-zi's, white supremacists, traitors, conspirators, you are probably a republican."

These salient words were found on the Daily Kos recently, and stuck me as relevant and real as they come. Just try and deny it. I am sure the 'usual suspects' will carry on nevertheless, and I will be subject to criticism.

I so rarely chime in here, and almost never when it comes to politics, but here you go. Happy New Year everybody, and I mean everybody, in spite of whatever leanings float your leaky boat. haha

I so respect Davids 'mission passion' and all the mapping he has given to all of us.

Politics? Not so much.

It would be nice if some would stick to Peace, Love, and Fish Tacos and keep their opinions to themselves on other issues. Politics and religion, as the old saying goes, brings nothing but discord, and we all have more than enough of that already.

I am sure that is too much to ask for some folks.

Blanca, you are always a breath of fresh air. Your giving nature knows no bounds, and you and Less deserve the best of everything for all the paying it forward that your lives exemplify. Others here should take your fine example more to heart.

Peace, love and fish tacos to all.



Bajaboy - 12-26-2020 at 10:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Look, I get deleted too. Figure it was something I wrote and crossed the line about, strayed off subject. Not my forum and don't make the rules so nothing personal.

I'm with DK on not traveling at this time. Doesn't mean forever, just let things play out a bit before jumping in.

''You want a N-zi government to dictate ...
'' blah blah blah.

Still, DK is our DK and he's not his misguided politics.


It is a bit of comforting info to see that other folks's posts get deleted as well as mine....I was starting to take it personally.....:wow:

"ad hominem attacks on individuals" get deleted is The Word.... but being called a dick is okay.

Grade one reader:
"Look at Dick. Dick and Jane have a dog. The dog is called Spot. Run, Spot, run.

Oh, Spot just peed on a post. Spot is a bad dog.

Spot needs to respect posts and not pee on them....
Maybe Spot should not be out of the house..."

:biggrin:

P.S. David seems angrier than usual lately with more frequent references to n-zis.... I think he IS his politics, and the election results have been distressing for him. Let's give David a break from inviting him to consider his alliances and just thank him for maps. They are sometimes helpful for those of us who don't rely on gps (although I do use such devices at times...).

[Edited on 12-26-2020 by motoged]


I met David before Fox News was around. He was a great guy. I miss that guy!

David K - 12-26-2020 at 10:44 PM

Same guy... loves America and loves Baja. Hates big government and loss of freedom that comes with it.

I find it hilarious how I make a political REPLY to another (goat, etc.) and you are only bent with my reply and not the person who turned a thread political. If you don't want political free discussion then nip it in the bud with the originator instead of the responder. I find it also hilarious that it updest you when I REMOVE my replies. There is just no pleasing you lefties!

Merry Christmas (or Happy Solstice since the mention of Christ makes some of you crazy)!

mtgoat666 - 12-27-2020 at 02:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Same guy... loves America and loves Baja. Hates big government and loss of freedom that comes with it.

I find it hilarious how I make a political REPLY to another (goat, etc.) and you are only bent with my reply and not the person who turned a thread political. If you don't want political free discussion then nip it in the bud with the originator instead of the responder. I find it also hilarious that it updest you when I REMOVE my replies. There is just no pleasing you lefties!

Merry Christmas (or Happy Solstice since the mention of Christ makes some of you crazy)!


There you go again! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

pacificobob - 12-27-2020 at 07:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  
"If you find yourself making excuses and justifications for child molesters, rapists, sexual assaulters, gropers, con men, liars, draft dodgers, pedophiles, N-zi's, white supremacists, traitors, conspirators, you are probably a republican."

These salient words were found on the Daily Kos recently, and stuck me as relevant and real as they come. Just try and deny it. I am sure the 'usual suspects' will carry on nevertheless, and I will be subject to criticism.

I so rarely chime in here, and almost never when it comes to politics, but here you go. Happy New Year everybody, and I mean everybody, in spite of whatever leanings float your leaky boat. haha

I so respect Davids 'mission passion' and all the mapping he has given to all of us.

Politics? Not so much.

It would be nice if some would stick to Peace, Love, and Fish Tacos and keep their opinions to themselves on other issues. Politics and religion, as the old saying goes, brings nothing but discord, and we all have more than enough of that already.

I am sure that is too much to ask for some folks.

Blanca, you are always a breath of fresh air. Your giving nature knows no bounds, and you and Less deserve the best of everything for all the paying it forward that your lives exemplify. Others here should take your fine example more to heart.

Peace, love and fish tacos to all.





well said surfhat. and a good 2021 to you

mtgoat666 - 12-27-2020 at 08:33 AM

I guess there is another way to ook at covid: travel now, because you might be dead from covid by March 1st....

(CNN) The United States reached a grim milestone on Saturday: 1 in 1,000 Americans have died from Covid-19 since the nation's first reported infection in late January.

Census Bureau estimates for the last week of December place the US population at around 330,750,000. On Saturday afternoon, the national death toll from Covid-19 reached 331,116, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

DouglasP - 12-27-2020 at 08:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  

The above is divisive and makes things worse. DK doesn't see that. The country was divided before and the clown in the WH has made it worse. Yup, time to go.


The lack of self awareness in this sentence is astonishing.

gnukid - 12-27-2020 at 09:30 AM

Can you catch the flu running side shore on a cross breeze trolling at 5-7 knots?

Can you catch the flu running the arroyos in a sand rail?

Can you catch the flu eating stuffed jalapeños chased by Don Julio Tequila?

JZ - 12-27-2020 at 10:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
I guess there is another way to ook at covid: travel now, because you might be dead from covid by March 1st....

(CNN) The United States reached a grim milestone on Saturday: 1 in 1,000 Americans have died from Covid-19 since the nation's first reported infection in late January.

Census Bureau estimates for the last week of December place the US population at around 330,750,000. On Saturday afternoon, the national death toll from Covid-19 reached 331,116, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.


Car crashes have killed more ppl under 55 in the US in 2020.

The answer should be to protect those at risk. Not harm everyone





[Edited on 12-27-2020 by JZ]

motoged - 12-27-2020 at 11:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


There is just no pleasing you lefties!

Merry Christmas (or Happy Solstice since the mention of Christ makes some of you crazy)!


David, Why bring Jesus into this discussion? Are you enlisting him as someone backing your political position?

When you take a look at the guy's history, he appears to be a bit of a leftist.....caring for the sick and poor.... some socialist tendencies tend to surface when reviewing his resume.

We just got over the Xmas fooferah....poor Santa busting his butt to celebrate the holiday.... someone asked, "What did Jesus ever do for Santa's birthday?" (that's a joke....) :D

Lee - 12-27-2020 at 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP  
Quote: Originally posted by Lee  

The above is divisive and makes things worse. DK doesn't see that. The country was divided before and the clown in the WH has made it worse. Yup, time to go.


The lack of self awareness in this sentence is astonishing.


Cryptic responses are meaningless. DK's politics come across across as misguided. Just my fracking opinion.

Bet some here are crying tears in their ceverzas that the government is moving Left? Get use to it.

pauldavidmena - 12-27-2020 at 04:10 PM

Since the name of this topic was the cryptic "Baja Travel After Christmas?", I have to answer - just as cryptically - yes, but I don't know how long after Christmas.

It seems that most BajaNomads who have attempted to cross the border for one reason or another over the past few months have been able to do so with very few problems. So if the question is "Can I travel to Baja after Christmas?" the answer is a qualified yes. But if the question is "Should I travel to Baja after Christmas?" it becomes surprisingly subjective.

What would it take for the answer to be "no"? An out-of-control Covid catastrophe? It seems that warnings and guidelines are insufficient, especially when enforcement is lax or non-existent. Many adventurous souls resent the very notion of being restricted in their movements, and they've been able to travel to and from Baja with little or no resistance. Is that sufficient validation of their actions?

I've erred on the side of caution and have cancelled my annual winter getaway to Todos Santos. I've also skipped Thanksgiving and Christmas gatherings with my adult children - much to their disappointment. I realize that my chance of getting sick is statistically minimal - but not zero - and I'm not a betting man.

So for me, I think it's prudent to resist the temptation to escape the New England winter, to escape over nine months of self-imposed exile, and to visit the place I love and instead experience Baja nostalgically and vicariously until the situation becomes more stable and predictable. I want to be able to experience Baja for years, and possibly decades to come, and have no stomach for rolling the dice when the potential drawbacks - however remote - are so dire.

Just my two pesos.

JZ - 12-27-2020 at 04:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  


Just meaningless. Graphs = smoke and mirrors. Everyone is at risk. Kids need masks. Some parents will take that graph literally and say, my kid doesn't need a mask. He's not at risk.

Don't see any real solutions, JZ. You've claimed only the ''at risk'' should lay low. Everyone else just carry on with your life.

Bad advice. Always looks like you're practicing medicine.

Lockdowns aren't hurting everyone. Many benefit from not spreading the virus. The public is demonstrating that no one is in agreement about how to handle things.



Facts are now "smoke and mirrors" - okay.

Life is all about balancing risks. We drive cars, even though they are deadly. 22K under 55 have died in the US from Covid - most because of underlying conditions like obesity. Many millions under 55 have been crushed financially. Millions of others are in depression. That is not a proper balance.

It is criminal to keep school age kids from in person schools. Even Fauci says this now. And the governor of CA sends his kids to school?

Follow the science, the WHO says lock downs don't work. Especially, for poor countries.

Every single day some politician tells ppl to stay home, while they do the exact opposite.

The ones at risk need to use extreme caution. The rest need to use caution, but go about life.


[Edited on 12-28-2020 by JZ]

surabi - 12-27-2020 at 06:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  


Car crashes have killed more ppl under 55 in the US in 2020.

[Edited on 12-27-2020 by JZ]


What part of "car accidents aren't contagious" continues to elude you?

And why don't you post links to where you come up with these statistics you bandy about? Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true.

JZ - 12-27-2020 at 07:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

What part of "car accidents aren't contagious" continues to elude you?

And why don't you post links to where you come up with these statistics you bandy about? Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true.


Is the CDC a good enough source for you?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Lee - 12-27-2020 at 09:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Merry Christmas (or Happy Solstice since the mention of Christ makes some of you crazy)!


''The mention of Christ makes some of you crazy?''

Really the only thing missing here is a ''LOL'' or smiley face. :)

Think you're losing it David. Reach out. We can help.

Lee - 12-27-2020 at 09:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

Is the CDC a good enough source for you?


You have a dog in the fight, JZ. Kids home-schooling can't be fun. In-laws in Mexico taking a hit. Truly sad.

There is no US national mandate on guidelines. CA is epicenter and LA leads the way. Your governor is running the show. The RINO's on this forum, like frogs, are jumping out of the pot on this.

December 7, 2020:

''Dr Fauci told Californian officials they "really don't have any choice" in imposing some of the strictest measures in the US, including bans on restaurant dining and private gatherings.

The lockdown, affecting around 85% of the state's 40 million people, will last for at least three weeks and until Intensive Care Unit (ICU) capacity goes above 15% again.''

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55220186

Skipjack Joe - 12-28-2020 at 02:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

What part of "car accidents aren't contagious" continues to elude you?

And why don't you post links to where you come up with these statistics you bandy about? Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true.


Is the CDC a good enough source for you?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm


This link has nothing go do with car accidents.

Sorry to see that you have dropped to gnukid's level.

JZ - 12-28-2020 at 07:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack  


This link has nothing go do with car accidents.

Sorry to see that you have dropped to gnukid's level.


It is the source of the table that was posted above.

Car crashes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...

For 2016 specifically, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) data shows 37,461 people were killed in 34,436 motor vehicle crashes, an average of 102 per day.


[Edited on 12-28-2020 by JZ]

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2020 at 08:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

Follow the science, the WHO says lock downs don't work. Especially, for poor countries.


Jizzy,
While your shortness may have convinced you that you are a Who, you in fact do not live in Whoville. Dr Seuss is not the director of public health. You live in Calabasas. Barbara Ferrer is the LA County Director of Public Health. Got that straight?

Tell us what the public health directives are in Calabasas. Or do you think that local and state laws do not apply to you?

Mr. Bills - 12-28-2020 at 01:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Barbara Ferrer is the LA County Director of Public Health. Got that straight?


My condolences to everyone in L.A. County.

Barbara (Ph.D., not M.D.) Ferrer is no role model.

JZ - 12-28-2020 at 01:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  

Jizzy,
While your shortness may have convinced you that you are a Who, you in fact do not live in Whoville. Dr Seuss is not the director of public health. You live in Calabasas. Barbara Ferrer is the LA County Director of Public Health. Got that straight?

Tell us what the public health directives are in Calabasas. Or do you think that local and state laws do not apply to you?


Live on the border of Ventura County and its been pretty open.

Plus have friend's who own restaurants. They let us eat inside anytime we want.

Was in Utah 3 days ago at the Moab brewery. It was wide open. Ppl sitting at the bar, etc.

Hide in your basement if you want, I don't give a sh|t.

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2020 at 01:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  

Jizzy,
While your shortness may have convinced you that you are a Who, you in fact do not live in Whoville. Dr Seuss is not the director of public health. You live in Calabasas. Barbara Ferrer is the LA County Director of Public Health. Got that straight?

Tell us what the public health directives are in Calabasas. Or do you think that local and state laws do not apply to you?


Live on the border of Ventura County and its been pretty open.

Plus have friend's who own restaurants. They let us eat inside anytime we want.

Was in Utah 3 days ago at the Moab brewery. It was wide open. Ppl sitting at the bar, etc.

Hide in your basement if you want, I don't give a sh|t.


Behavior like that is why the pandemic is raging and people are dieing.
You seem quite proud of yourself. Sad.

motoged - 12-28-2020 at 02:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  


Hide in your basement if you want, I don't give a sh|t.


Cool....:coolup:

Does that mean we don't have to read more of your pro-spreader rants?

I was wondering, if your parents are/were alive and came down with C virus after a visit with you, and you were unaware that you were a carrier of virus ....what would you say to them? How would you feel about following safety protocols after such an unfortunate situation ?

Would you give a sh%t then?

JZ - 12-28-2020 at 03:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  


Cool....:coolup:

Does that mean we don't have to read more of your pro-spreader rants?

I was wondering, if your parents are/were alive and came down with C virus after a visit with you, and you were unaware that you were a carrier of virus ....what would you say to them? How would you feel about following safety protocols after such an unfortunate situation ?

Would you give a sh%t then?


You ppl don't have a clue. You can do things safely.

My brother's kid just had a wedding. Guess what, the older relatives didn't go.

If you go to meet an older relative, get tested. There is a place 5 mins from my house that has been doing tests with 15 min results since August. Everyone in my family has been tested multiple times.

You can travel safely. My wife has flown a half dozen times and has gone into her office every single day since March.

You weirdo's wanting to put everyone out of work, wreck businesses, cause depression, while you sit at home collecting a govt. check are the worst of the worst.

motoged - 12-28-2020 at 03:19 PM

Yep....you don't give a sh!t..... :no: :( :rolleyes:

Appreciate your prompt response. :biggrin:

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2020 at 03:48 PM

Shorty:
So old people should stay home or risk death. And young people should not be inconvenienced just because those pesky elders are weak and old.
Why can’t youth be slightly inconvenienced by masking up and eating takeout so old people can get out of lockup?

John Harper - 12-28-2020 at 06:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  

You weirdo's wanting to put everyone out of work, wreck businesses, cause depression, while you sit at home collecting a govt. check are the worst of the worst.


Yes, better to get a free government loan/grant/bailout and go skiing!

John

surabi - 12-28-2020 at 07:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack  


This link has nothing go do with car accidents.

Sorry to see that you have dropped to gnukid's level.


It is the source of the table that was posted above.

Car crashes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...

For 2016 specifically, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) data shows 37,461 people were killed in 34,436 motor vehicle crashes, an average of 102 per day.


[Edited on 12-28-2020 by JZ]


And 37,461 people killed in car accidents is more than 343,182 who have died of COVID in the US so far this year? Did you totally flunk math?

And nowhere in any of the links you posted is there any info on how many people under the age of 55 have died in car accidents in 2020, the comparison you were making. You just made that up. Sorry, but the chit you fling only sticks to your own walls, no one else's.