BajaNomad - The palm tree is going two feet under water

The palm tree is going two feet under water

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RFClark - 10-31-2023 at 01:43 PM

Yet more Dogma!

surabi - 10-31-2023 at 05:00 PM

Profound commentary.

RFClark - 10-31-2023 at 06:14 PM

“From Prometheus to Arcadia: Liberals, Conservatives, the Environment, and Cultural Cognition“

Apoplectic over dogma!

https://www.econlib.org/library/columns/y2022/desrochersprom...

surabi - 10-31-2023 at 07:16 PM

Gee, a libertarian website. How predictable.

The Library of Economics and Liberty (Econlib) website is owned and published by the Liberty Fund, which is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization funded through donations. Pierre Frist Goodrich founded the Liberty Fund in 1960. Goodrich left most of his considerable estate to the Liberty Fund. The Econlib website and Liberty Fund lack transparency with funding.

Analysis / Bias
The organization has been criticized recently as it is drifting away from its founder’s vision as the board has been a vocal advocate for Former President Trump. The website publishes articles such as “The Beef with Greed: Leo Tolstoy and Adam Smith.” Econlib also provides articles that favor the right and often the policies of President Trump, such as this “The Threats to Democracy, Part I.” The Library of Economics and Liberty (Econlib) generally advocates for a free-market economy with minimal regulations.

When reporting on climate change, the Library of Economics and Liberty (Econlib) publishes articles minimizing the effects of climate change “William Nordhaus versus the United Nations on Climate Change Economics.” In this article, the author states, “Nordhaus’s work shows that such an aggressive goal would make humanity much worse off than if we simply adapted to climate change with no government measures.” The author Robert P. Murphy is an economist for a Houston, Texas-based think-tank called the Institute for Energy Research (IER). According to DesMog, “The IER has received over $307,000 in funding from ExxonMobil and $237,000 From Koch Family Foundations. PRI has received over $600,000 from Koch Foundations and significant donations from Scaife Foundations.”

Failed Fact Checks
None in the Last 5 years
Overall, we rate The Library of Economics and Liberty (Econlib) Right Biased based on political positions and advocacy that favors the right. We also rate them Mostly Factual in reporting rather than High due to a lack of transparency with funding.

RFClark - 10-31-2023 at 11:20 PM

So let me understand this. It’s a book review. The book which was reviewed on Amazon as well and its Phd author are biased because you don’t agree with the politics of someplace else that also reviewed the book!!

Can you say “Dogma uber alles”!!

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by RFClark]

JDCanuck - 11-1-2023 at 05:09 AM

Seems to me we would be far better off spending our money and energy providing both solar powered air conditioning and water production for those extremely at risk than financially penalizing individuals and industries who have no alternatives at present and must use fossil fuels to survive.

surabi - 11-1-2023 at 08:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

So let me understand this. It’s a book review. The book which was reviewed on Amazon as well and its Phd author are biased because you don’t agree with the politics of someplace else that also reviewed the book.

No, you don't "understand this" at all. I don't consider someone biased because I don't agree with their politics. I consider someone biased when all the places they get their information conveniently agree with their politics. It's called confirmation bias.

My comment had nothing to do with the book review or the book itself, which I haven't read.

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 11-1-2023 at 09:38 AM

You might benefit from reading either but you can’t because it’s outside your belief system

Dogma uber allas at it’s finest!

You probably haven't read any of the articles coming out of Norway either. Norway the country where 87% of the cars sold are EVs.

Now the Greens there are saying that the conversion to EVs is actually damaging the efforts to make cities in Norway carless and just driving EVs won’t meet the reductions required to “save the planet”!

They are now saying that only bicycles, walking and public transit in the cities and driving restrictions outside them will do. That and reducing the total road milage in the country.

Norway is very American in its use of personal transport!

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 11-1-2023 at 09:44 AM

"The claim: Thousands of scientists sign 'climate crisis hoax' document
A Sept. 14 article (direct link, archive link) circulating on Facebook claims a large group of scientists downplayed the dangers of climate change in a signed declaration.

"Thousands of Scientists Unite to Expose ‘Climate Crisis’ Hoax," reads the headline of the article, which was published on the website News Addict.

Thousands of scientists did not sign the document referenced in the article. The document lists only around 1,600 purported signatories, the vast majority of whom have no listed expertise in climate science. Hundreds of the purported signatories are not listed as being scientists of any kind, according to a USA TODAY count.

While the article's headline references "thousands of scientists," the article's text states that only 1,609 scientists "gathered together to sign a declaration, proclaiming that 'there is no climate emergency.'"

USA TODAY found around 100 purported signatories listed as having college degrees in the fields of climate science, climatology, meteorology, paleoclimatology, environmental science, atmospheric science or atmospheric physics or as being scientists in those fields.

Other signatories listed credentials far outside the climate realm (if they list any). Titles listed include:

Senior ship designer

Financial advice specialist

Sceptical (sic) scientific contrarian in the climate debate

Leadership development and coaching

Sculptor, designer and innovator

Commercial fisherman

Airline pilot

Sommelier

Historical linguist

Lifetime explorer of truth

IT professional

PhD in mental health"

SFandH - 11-1-2023 at 11:07 AM

We've been back at our place on Bahia Concepcion for three weeks, a new moon and a full moon. We've been spending the winters here for 12 years or so, and I've never seen higher tides. Popular camping spots are flooded, beachfront homes along El Burro beach are getting undermined by seawater, and roads around the various beaches are flooded at high tide. Also, the low tides are higher than normal.

These are not the highest tides of the year; they occur in January.

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by SFandH]

surabi - 11-1-2023 at 11:11 AM

I'm sure the climate change deniers will either tell you it's all in your imagination or that it's perfectly normal and has nothing to do with climate change.

SFandH - 11-1-2023 at 11:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

I'm sure the climate change deniers will either tell you it's all in your imagination or that it's perfectly normal and has nothing to do with climate change.

Of course, otherwise, they wouldn't be deniers.

The road I use to get to my place has been flooded during the new moon / full moon high tides. I don't like driving through seawater, so I've avoided it when flooded. This is the first year I've seen the road flooded.

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by SFandH]

News Greens Rarely Speak of!

RFClark - 11-1-2023 at 11:21 AM

New Technology Pilot Generating Plant to begin operation in 2024.

https://netl.doe.gov/node/7549

This new technology can replace current steam turbine plants with a 10X reduction in turbine size, a 10% increase in efficiency and a 10X reduction in start time.

Past that because the smaller plant size would allow plants to be located closer to locations where the 50% of the total energy wasted could be used to run hot and cold water loops efficiencies far higher than 50% would be possible.

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by RFClark]

The why of Tides - interesting reading

RFClark - 11-1-2023 at 12:00 PM

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sci...

Baja California has the Mixed Semidiurnal Tides which creates large excursions in the high tides. Far larger than the estimated 80mm sea level rise since 1995.

surabi - 11-1-2023 at 12:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

The road I use to get to my place has been flooded during the new moon / full moon high tides. I don't like driving through seawater, so I've avoided it when flooded. This is the first year I've seen the road flooded.

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by SFandH]

Well, you must be so grateful that RFC chimed in to educate you on basic tidal information.

SFandH - 11-1-2023 at 01:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Well, you must be so grateful that RFC chimed in to educate you on basic tidal information.

RFClark - 11-1-2023 at 03:47 PM

Well, since 80mm of sea level rise in 28 years is unlikely to result in flooding the road. Just perhaps something else cyclic is causing the tides to be higher or the land to be lower, possibly both, as is happening along the East Coast of North America.

Perhaps, God forbid, it’s a natural cycle that can’t be blamed on people. I realize that doesn’t fit your cherished narrative but it happens. You might note who’s bemoaning the “pending disaster” while buying sea level ocean front property. Always follow the money and or power!

mtgoat666 - 11-1-2023 at 03:57 PM

Breaking news!

Pope says he will attend COP28 climate summit in Dubai, a first by a pontiff!

Pope does not deny!

surabi - 11-1-2023 at 04:00 PM

80 mm? Is that one of your "alternative facts"?

"Over the past 100 years, global temperatures have risen about 1 degree C (1.8 degrees F), with sea level response to that warming totaling about 160 to 210 mm (with about half of that amount occurring since 1993), or about 6 to 8 inches. And the current rate of sea-level rise is unprecedented over the past several millennia."

https://sealevel.nasa.gov/faq/13/how-long-have-sea-levels-be...

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by surabi]

Here’s NASA’s Satellite chart - you do the math!

RFClark - 11-1-2023 at 04:26 PM

From 1995 to Current.

You’re welcome to your own dogma but not your own data!

[Edited on 11-1-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 11-2-2023 at 11:07 AM

RFC- it wasn't necessary to post your graph- it shows the same thing the NASA article I linked to does. My point is that you cherry-pick the info that fits your narrative and omit whatever doesn't- yes, the sea level rise has been about 80mm in the past 28 years, but has been twice that in the past 100 years- the sea level is rising much faster over the past few decades than it did prior to that and continues to escalate at an unprecedented rate.

80 mm might not sound like much, but sea level rise affects many things negatively. For instance, sea turtles who lay their eggs above high tide line are having their eggs wash away- when humans build homes at the beach, and the high tide gets higher- there is little beach left above high tide for the turtle eggs to be undisturbed. This has already happened in some areas.

[Edited on 11-2-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 11-2-2023 at 11:31 AM

Which part of 150 meters in sea level rise don’t you get? The change in the rate of that long term rise has only been accurately measurable for about the last 30 Years. Since GPS and this satellite.

If you look at the graph on NASA’s site even you can see that the rate of rise is lower in the satellite data than the other sources. That’s because 70% or so of the earth is water with no way to measure sea level save from space. That has only been possible for 30 years!

The land sinking is not the sea rising or a part of human induced changes in the climate. There are places that pumping has caused subsidences but those areas are generally localized.

The graph is for those who don’t read the boring words and it’s easy to understand. It counteracts the dogma you spread!

BTW Nothing to say about the climate Change news from Norway or China? Just Crickets Crickets Crickets!

[Edited on 11-2-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 11-2-2023 at 02:45 PM

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/experts-underestimate-fast-earth-w...

RFClark - 11-2-2023 at 04:08 PM

OK, but I think that the coming war with the Chinese/Russian axis will create more than enough “aerosols” and pollution to lower the temperature. All the papers forecast even a very limiter exchange of Nukes will dramatically lower temperatures worldwide.

In fact soon there will be studies showing the climate effects of all the current local wars. Then there is Campi Flegrei in Italy.

I doubt that Hansen’s paper even considers that. All of you human climate Change types will be looking the wrong way when the ball drops. It won’t be the cars and stoves, it will be the bombs and it will be colder not warmer.

NOAA wrote a paper on the smoke and soot from the bad Australian Fires several years ago stating that they actually extended La Niña as much as an extra 2 years.

Did Hansen consider that either. Canada and Europe had a more than average number of fires this year so there’s that too!

The problem with only looking down the road is that you can step into a hole right in front of you!

surabi - 11-2-2023 at 04:38 PM

Sure, lets just ignore the problems we are aware of, because something else that might possibly happen in the future, might possibly make it a moot point. That's one of the most lame excuses I've ever heard.

"You know, honey, I don't really see the point in starting to save for Susie's higher education- after all, the world as we know it may not even exist by the time she graduates from high school."

[Edited on 11-2-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 11-2-2023 at 05:58 PM

They said that plus he was also a wild and crazy warmonger was what people said about Churchill in the ‘30s Especially people in Germany who knew exactly what was coming!

However did that turn out? You could ask my Cousin except he’s buried in Luxembourg with Paton. (Assuming you know who Paton was) you might ask the Canadians Mountbatten abandoned at Dieppe but they, like my Cousin con only testify by their grave markers! (Assuming that you know who they were!)

Those who don’t know or believe history usually receive a refresher course assuming the survive the experience!

You still can’t say anything critical about anyone outside of the US! Very telling!

surabi - 11-2-2023 at 06:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

except he’s buried in Luxembourg with Paton. (Assuming you know who Paton was)

Paton? Does that rhyme with baton? Never heard of him. However, I am well aware of who General Patton was.

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 11-2-2023 at 11:25 PM

How does a Canadian, even a Canadian AI not know about Dieppi? I make spelling errors, we all do. Even you! When you can’t answer the question, (and you can’t) check the spelling, punctuation better yet both.

War and there are several going on right now has everything to do with human caused climate change. Mostly they make it impossible for the whole world to address a problem that effects the whole world.

If countries can’t stop killing each-other’s citizens long enough to make the changes necessary to “save” the planet, it’s not going to get “saved”.

As to the comparison to the in between the wars years. Those who don’t know or ignore history do so at their own peril!

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 11-2-2023 at 11:58 PM

Are you hallucinating responses here? Where did I say I don't know about Dieppe?

RFClark - 11-3-2023 at 12:17 AM

When did you say you did know? You blew off the whole subject with the spelling dodge. Not a substantive answer in the bunch, just snark.

JZ - 11-3-2023 at 07:26 AM

So you wanna charge your car?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8SkfFPw/

pacificobob - 11-3-2023 at 07:45 AM

Remarkably compelling argument jeez. I recently spent several days in San Diego driving a Tesla. I was most impressed. I "fueled up" while having lunch. Super convenient.

RFClark - 11-3-2023 at 07:54 AM

Currently PHEVs are a good value. We can drive to Todos Santos and back on solar. The combination of gas and solar works out to over 100mpg.

We have a Kia Niro PHEV. It’s fine for 2 people.We’ve driven it to and from BCS a few times as well. It’s better than the Nissan Rogue we had.

That said have you heard the latest primarily from Norway? The truth is finally coming out. Norway now has an 87% EV new car sales rate. But the Greens have their collective shorts in a knot over the fact that EVs are derailing their goals of eliminating personal transport electric or otherwise and replacing it with public transport, bicycles and walking.

Now the story is that only by reducing personal mobility can their green goals, one of which is “social justice” be met! (making everyone walk makes everyone equal in Norway where it snows a lot!)

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by RFClark]

JZ - 11-3-2023 at 08:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

Remarkably compelling argument jeez. I recently spent several days in San Diego driving a Tesla. I was most impressed. I "fueled up" while having lunch. Super convenient.

Tell that to the people who were stuck in Burbank until 3am. Given the huge rise in crime I'm sure it was fun looking over their shoulders all night. Their only saving grace is it's difficult to car jack an EV that has no juice. :lol:

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by JZ]

mtgoat666 - 11-3-2023 at 08:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

Remarkably compelling argument jeez. I recently spent several days in San Diego driving a Tesla. I was most impressed. I "fueled up" while having lunch. Super convenient.

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by JZ]

people need to plan ahead. easy solution. :light:

yes, e-charging stations are still a bit scarce,... so dumb people or people that plan poorly should stick to dirty fossil fuel until infrastructure is more developed :light:

analogous to driving in rural baja, you need to use your noggin a bit and be mindful of fueling up, since there are not fuel stations every mile :light:

surabi - 11-3-2023 at 02:09 PM

Researchers report mass bleaching of coral reefs in warming Florida.

https://nordot.app/1093087583949062207?c=592622757532812385

mtgoat666 - 11-3-2023 at 02:27 PM

How many more EV chargers does the US need?
The United States has a goal to have 50% of all vehicles sold each year be zero-emission by 2030. According to an analysis from McKinsey & Company, achieving this goal would put 48 million EVs, or 15% of all total vehicles, on the road in 2030. To facilitate this goal, the federal government’s Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL), also referred to as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), provides $7.5 billion in funding for 500,000 public EV charging stations.

However, an additional half-million charging stations will likely not be enough. McKinsey analysts estimate that if the US wants to reach its goal, it will likely need 1.2 million public and 28 million private EV charging stations.

That’s approximately 20 times more charging stations than are currently installed in the United States in 2023.

Always look on the bright side of life. This is job opportunities for your grandchildren! Job opportunities for electricians and engineers!

JZ - 11-3-2023 at 02:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

Researchers report mass bleaching of coral reefs in warming Florida.

https://nordot.app/1093087583949062207?c=592622757532812385

Great Barrier Reef Defies Doomsday Predictions
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/great-barrier-reef-defie...

The headlines were dire: “Half of the Great Barrier Reef’s corals have been killed by climate change,” CBS News reported in October 2020. Bleaching of the reef’s corals is “getting more widespread,” the New York Times reported earlier that year. A Vice headline in 2017 promoting David Attenborough’s Blue Planet II documentary said, “the Great Barrier Reef will die this century,” while National Geographic predicted an earlier demise for reefs around the globe: “Coral reefs could be gone in 30 years.”

It became almost common knowledge that the Great Barrier Reef was assuredly doomed, the victim of a warming climate, rising ocean temperatures, and increasingly acidic water.

Then, in early August, the authoritative Australian Institute of Marine Science released a new report on the 1,400-mile natural wonder. Two-thirds of the reef — its northern and central regions — are showing record levels of coral cover. The southern region is also showing high levels of coral cover. The AIMS report was hardly a portrait of a dying ecosystem.

While the news may have been shocking to those who have been relying on the mainstream media for their information, it was no surprise to Peter Ridd, a marine geophysicist in Australia who has been studying the Great Barrier Reef since the mid 1980s.

JZ - 11-3-2023 at 02:29 PM

In Search Of The Coming Ice Age ... With Leonard Nimoy (1978)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQRqr9_jw5I

surabi - 11-3-2023 at 02:40 PM

JZ- Calling attention to predictions that didn't unfold exactly as stated is the idiot's deflection response to discussing things that are happening, factually, right now.

How many times are you going to post a link to that Leonard Nimoy video? It speaks to the paucity of available information to bolster your opinions that you can't find anything new to try to debunk and trot out the same old thing endlessly.

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by surabi]

JZ - 11-3-2023 at 02:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

JZ- Calling attention to predictions that didn't unfold exactly as stated is the idiot's deflection response to discussing things that are happening, factually, right now.

How many times are you going to post a link to that Leonard Nimoy video? It speaks to the paucity of available information to bolster your opinions that you can't find anything new to try to debunk and trot out the same old thing endlessly.

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by surabi]

Listen to the video. Especially around the six minute mark. They are saying all the same things you are now, but in reverse.

He's got a guy on there who says it is his life's mission to study the climate. He says we have just ended a period of wariness and have started into an Ice age.

You aren't changing global climate. Focus on more achievable things like improving air quality and other pollution, providing energy at a lower cost, etc. EVs have a big role to play, just not the way you think.

Also push for the use of nuclear. Stop trying to scare ppl to win votes!

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by JZ]

How the next Ice Age might start

AKgringo - 11-3-2023 at 03:56 PM

I remember hearing this theory in the mid 70s, but back then the focus was on the northern hemisphere.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/55663444

This is not my mantra, just pointing out more "science"!

RFClark - 11-3-2023 at 03:59 PM

S,

You continually make the case that no matter how ineffective it will be we must sacrifice and try to do something. I can't argue with the try to do something part.

That said sacrifice is the least effective and far from the only thing that we can do. We have the ability to reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the earth today. In fact papers have been published that warn that the increased number of satellites reentering the atmosphere may already be starting to do exactly that.

Why then is sacrifice the first choice rather than technology especially when a majority outside the US are willing to do absolutely nothing to solve the problem except of course to be paid by us?

JZ - 11-3-2023 at 04:30 PM

You can't make this stuff up.

European colonizers killed so many Native Americans that it changed the global climate, researchers say
https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2...

mtgoat666 - 11-3-2023 at 08:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

You can't make this stuff up.

European colonizers killed so many Native Americans that it changed the global climate, researchers say
https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2...

Interesting. More evidence that species population (in this case a quasi-pandemic) affected climate prior to the industrial revolution and beginning of petroleum addiction :light:

You would have to be a really dumb rube to deny that post-industrial revolution carbon emissions have not affected climate!

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by mtgoat666]

surabi - 11-3-2023 at 08:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Why then is sacrifice the first choice

Your language characterizes the attitude that leads to people balking at accepting that things have to change and the more people who get on board, the better.

When you characterize something as a "sacrifice", it conveys that you are painfully giving up something that is of utmost importance in your life.

Changing things about the way we live, the products we are accustomed to consuming, the way we use things, does not equate with "sacrifice". Altering one's lifestyle doesn't have to be a negative thing.

Sure, at first one might find it less convenient, but once you get used to it, it might result in positive things that you never anticipated.
Take stopping at a charging station to charge your EV. Friends of mine who switched to an EV, rather than feeling irritated that they had to "waste time" waiting for it to charge or for it to be their turn, started using that time to sit back and relax, listen to a podcast, or read a book they never used to have time for, take a nap, go through their hundreds of emails and delete and organize them.

When a lot of stores stopped using plastic bags and people had to bring their own reusable bags or buy one, people got used to it pretty quickly. At first you might go out shopping and forget your bags, but soon new habits were formed- you hung your bags by the front door and remembered to grab them when you left the house the next time, or had a few extras in the car in case you forgot.

As far as why changing one's habits is the first choice, for one thing, it's something everyone has personal control over, whereas there are much fewer people who are capable of developing new technologies. So you start with the things you can personally do to make a difference, while being supportive of those who are developing the new technologies.

Of the 3 "R"s- reduce, reuse, recycle- reduce is first. If we reduce our consumption to start with, asking ourselves "Do I really need this?" then we don't have to find a way to reuse it when it's no longer fit for the purpose we bought it for, and we don't need to have as many facilities to sort, transport and melt down or otherwise recycle it.

Reducing our consumption, what you refer to as "sacrifice" is the first key to a healthier environment and to the resources we do have lasting longer.

RFClark - 11-3-2023 at 09:05 PM

S,

It doesn't matter what you call it. It won’t solve the problem. The US shutting down and going to 0 immersions won't solve the problem because we’re only a small part of a world wide problem which the world won’t solve.

That said we can solve the problem through the appropriate use of technology. The only problem is you and the rest of the human beings are the problem faction don’t want to solve the problem that way.

Only making sure that most everyone except those in charge settle for less will do for them. Right now as we speak there is a spacecraft on its way to an minor planet worth more by far than the world’s GDP.

There’s no shortage of opportunity or wealth out there. We need to solve the problems here and move on.

surabi - 11-3-2023 at 09:44 PM

"The US shutting down..." ? How dramatic.

Same old shtick with you- Those folks won't cooperate, so it's pointless for us to bother. I might as well throw garbage in my yard, because my neighbors do.
Of course if the US went to zero emissions it would make a difference. Everything makes a difference. And if we all stopped buying cheap crap made in China, China's emissions would go down, too.

"The only problem is you and the rest of the human beings are the problem faction don’t want to solve the problem that way.".

The "problem faction"? What a load of crap and where did you get the absurdly erroneous notion that we are against new technologies to help solve the problems? Of course I support technology that will help lessen our negative impact on the planet. However, technology that has the potential to create more disaster, like nuclear power plants, are not what we should be investing in. We need to invest in technologies which have the least potential for harm.

JZ - 11-3-2023 at 10:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

S,

You continually make the case that no matter how ineffective it will be we must sacrifice

The truth is, she isn't sacrificing anything. I'll stop there.

She expects the rest of us to give up our lives for some govt. declared "Common Good."

RFClark - 11-3-2023 at 10:54 PM

S,

Technology might create a disaster or it might prevent one. I didn’t say don’t do anything. I said do something that will work. Use the technology we have to reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the earth. That will actually stop the increase and reduce the average temperature. It doesn’t require the participation of the unwilling either.

Past that it’s happening as we speak. Currently more satellites are burning up on reentry each year. The products of the aluminum being burned up reflect sunlight back into space. Doing enough of that will stop the increases in temperature buying time for other changes to be made and take effect..

surabi - 11-4-2023 at 12:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

She expects the rest of us to give up our lives for some govt. declared "Common Good."

Making a few changes to how we live isn't "giving up your life".
And don't try to put your words in my mouth- "govt. declared Common Good".

The people I hang with do things for the common good because they care about others and the environment, not because the govt. told them to. I know that may be an alien concept to you, actually caring about something other than yourself.

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by surabi]

Glidergeek - 11-4-2023 at 08:31 AM

Is that palm tree under water yet?

pacificobob - 11-4-2023 at 08:50 AM

The argument that "why should the US do anything to mitigate climate damage because other countries aren't doing so." Reminds me of a scenario of not wanting to bail out a leaking lifeboat because the other occupants are sitting on their hands.

JZ - 11-4-2023 at 09:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

The argument that "why should the US do anything to mitigate climate damage because other countries aren't doing so." Reminds me of a scenario of not wanting to bail out a leaking lifeboat because the other occupants are sitting on their hands.

Maybe change course on foreign policies that have enabled wars around the globe. How much C02 has been put in the atmosphere from them. Probably more than has been reduced in the US in the last 2 years?

The climate crisis is a grift to distract youth from all their horrendous decisions.

RFClark - 11-4-2023 at 09:43 AM

PB,

The issue at least from my viewpoint isn’t that we shouldn’t do anything. It’s that we should do something that will solve the problem.

What has been proposed won’t, if done unilaterally, won’t materially effect the problem and giving up on improving or even maintaining our standard of living in the process helps no one.

Those quick to condemn the West for “not doing enough” usually won’t condemn the China-Russia axis for doing worse and usually want money as compensation.

What we can do unilaterally, that will work is build upon what is already occurring. Reducing the amount of sunlight reaching the earth’s has been proven to do exactly the same thing as reducing the CO2 levels. The difference is everyone must be on board to reduce CO2 enough which is not going to happen as China alone produces enough CO2 to continue its increasing levels.

There are now papers pointing out that then amount of Aluminum Oxide in the upper atmosphere as a result of increased satellite reentries is beginning to reflect sunlight which will effect the climate especially if that amount continues to increases.

With temperatures rising it seems that increase should be encouraged as less sunlight definitely won't make it hotter.

Only the US has the ability to cause this increase to happen. If things are really that bad we should act unilaterally.

This buys more time to allow the other green technologies to mature and spread.

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by RFClark]

RFClark - 11-4-2023 at 10:38 AM

Goat,

China has invested billions in sea level military facilities and billions more in nuclear power plants. They are on a course to lead not follow anyone. They have recently declared local wether data a state secret and ordered the more than 3000 private weather stations off the internet. They consider StarLink a threat to their security. The current “Dear Leader” wants to be remembered as regaining Taiwan.

There will be a military action with China in the next decade that could go nuclear.

“Dear Leader Jr.” won’t even be noticed!

[Edited on 11-5-2023 by RFClark]

RFClark - 11-4-2023 at 11:08 AM

So Goat,

Are you typing this on a non-chinese computer? If you have an old 8” floppy CPM system that still works please post a picture of it. If not I’ll bet your computer cost a lot more than a “T”!

FYI, those red hats that make you vomit are made in Carson CA which has not yet been subjugated by the PLA!

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 11-5-2023 by RFClark]

RFClark - 11-5-2023 at 10:23 AM

“Former head of NASA’s climate group issues dire warning on warming”

“For several years, Hansen and Simons have proposed that the recent and ongoing surge in a wide range of global climate indicators—not just average global temperatures—may be driven in large part by a sharp reduction in tiny sulfuric particles produced by burning shipping fuels and other fossil fuels, and by other industrial processes.“

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/11/former-head-of-nasas...

RFClark - 11-5-2023 at 03:31 PM

Lencho,

The Chinese and Indians do burn a lot of coal. Both are building nuclear plants to fix that. Mostly to help fix their own air quality problems and save foreign exchange costs buying coal.

The problem is that some of those who post here think Hansen walks on water! That said it is well known and widely ignored that aerosols do reflect sunlight. Volcanos emit lots of Sulphur compounds as did Sudbury Ontario until the Ontario Government was caught being the largest Acid rain producer in NA.

All of that sulphur from Sudbury, ships, diesel trucks, power plants, your gas stove and more have been relentlessly persecuted by the Greens. Along comes Hansen et al saying yes but the faster rise in temperature caused by the “clean air” is probably going to be worse!

The “good news” is we can replace the Sulphur compounds with other compounds like Aluminum Oxide which works better and is far less toxic, that will get the Greens shorts in a knot too, because that’s “evil weather control!

You just can’t make this stuff up!

[Edited on 11-5-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 11-10-2023 by RFClark]

Booming solar energy is encroaching on cropland

RFClark - 11-6-2023 at 10:24 AM

The rapid spread of solar power plants onto cropland is having increasingly detrimental impacts. Targeted policy and technological solutions are urgently needed to resolve the tension between renewable energy and food production.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-023-01304-1

mtgoat666 - 11-9-2023 at 08:25 AM

Nomad grandparents may not be able to buy toys for grandkids for xmas due to climate change!

Panama Canal drought hits new crisis level with nearly half of vessel traffic targeted for cuts
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/03/panama-canal-drought-hits-ne...

Drought in panama leading to insufficient surface water flows to operate locks.

The Panama Canal Authority is starting new cuts in vessel traffic which will reach over a 40% reduction of vessels by February due to an ongoing drought.

Forty percent of all U.S. container traffic travels through the Panama Canal’s locks every year and a total $270 billion in trade.

The Panama Canal is so congested that one ship owner just paid a record $4 million to skip to the front of the line
https://fortune.com/2023/11/08/panama-canal-congestion-recor...

Booking slots will be cut to 25 per day starting Nov. 3 from an already reduced 31 per day, the Panama Canal Authority (ACP) said in a client advisory, and will be gradually reduced further over the next three months to 18 slots from Feb. 1.

In recent months, the ACP has imposed various passage restrictions to conserve scarce water, including cutting vessel draft and daily passage authorizations.

RFClark - 11-9-2023 at 11:13 PM

Goat,

The toys are still made in the Far East unless you are planning on giving a bomb dropping quad copter or a suicide drone to your Grandkids. Those would generally come from the Atlantic side of the canal.

Read Hansen’s recent paper on clean clear air causing fewer clouds and higher temperatures. Those sulfur aerosols from your gas stove and more have been making it rain and reducing temperatures all along.

Who knew?

[Edited on 11-10-2023 by RFClark]

RFClark - 11-11-2023 at 08:18 AM

Iceland declares state of emergency over volcanic eruption threat

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/10/iceland-declar...

mtgoat666 - 11-11-2023 at 08:26 AM

Humanity just lived through the hottest 12 months in at least 125,000 years

lewmt - 11-11-2023 at 09:37 AM

CO2 is good for the earth.
CO2 is not a toxin or a poison.
You could double the current amount of CO2 and have virtually no impact on climate
Plant and animal life worldwide benefit from the presence of increasing CO2 levels
Greta Thunbergs great grandfather was a scientist who theorized that increasing CO2 levels would benefit Sweden which has been proven accurate

https://youtu.be/CA1zUW4uOSw?si=hdFgtF1JzfI3tOcm

RFClark - 11-11-2023 at 09:47 AM

Goat,

Clean air allows in more energy when the sun shines and supports fewer clouds. Without any action the cleaner the air the higher the temperatures will go.

No good deed goes unpunished!

lewmt - 11-11-2023 at 06:07 PM

Still can't refute any specifics from the information presented in the lecture. Typical

I am the Great Cloud! You are responsible for climate change!

RFClark - 11-11-2023 at 07:07 PM

IMG_3394.jpeg - 166kB

surabi - 11-11-2023 at 07:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt

Still can't refute any specifics from the information presented in the lecture.

Well, you see that's the difference between people like you and people like me. I am well aware that I'm not a climate scientist, and unqualified to "refute any specifics" in a knowledgeable and comprehensive way, armed with mountains of scientific data. So I pay attention to the people who are qualified, look up who they are funded by to determine if they have any conflicts of interest, and so on. And when like 95% of climate scientists, whose field of expertise that is concur on something, I'm going to listen to them, not the handful who deny the research, when they don't even have the qualifications to be commenting.

lewmt - 11-11-2023 at 07:52 PM

Within your snark is a full admission to being a yes-nodding bobblehead.
I always hope that presenting alternative information will result in good contrary information which subsequently requires thought and consideration. You offer neither...nor does Goat. Ever.

Working with scientists in a remote location who specifically focus on marine impacts of climate change offers many interesting angles for contemplation. Obviously not happening here in this forum.

My main point in linking the lecture is that CO2 isn't the negative boogey-substance portrayed by our government masters. Most of the scientists I meet here willingly admit to that. Even though we are currently experiencing a substantial El Nino and concurring bleaching event. This event is quite similar to many before and will subside when it subsides as previous El Nino's have. The reef recovers here because it is remote, pristine, and unemcumbered by other pollutants and human activities. It has nothing to do with CO2 levels. There's no overharvesting of the fishery, there's no agricultral runoff, no large scale wastewater runoff, and no factory runoff. There are numerous point-sources of pollution. There are many detrimental things humans do to "soil" the environment they live in. CO2 just isn't a pollutant... it's a beneficial nutrient to all plant and animal life. Like oxygen and water.

[Edited on 11-12-2023 by lewmt]

[Edited on 11-12-2023 by lewmt]

mtgoat666 - 11-11-2023 at 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt

CO2 just isn't a pollutant... it's a beneficial nutrient to all plant and animal life. Like oxygen and water.

Youre confused.
Drink too much water, you will die, hypnoatremia.
You cant swim, you will drown.
Too much water, the ocean will rise and flood your community.
Too much O2, you will die (hyperoxia or explosion).
Too much CO2, you will die, asphyxiation.
Too much co2, the climate will change and ruin your community.

[Edited on 11-12-2023 by mtgoat666]

surabi - 11-11-2023 at 09:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt

CO2 just isn't a pollutant... it's a beneficial nutrient to all plant and animal life.

Duh, I think everyone is well aware that CO2 is a necessary element for plant life. And there is more than enough CO2 on this planet for plants to grow. No one is advocating ridding the planet of CO2, that's idiotic.
Anything can be a pollutant when there's too much of it.

I love how you climate change deniers think you have to explain the most basic concepts, as if non-climate change deniers are 3 years old and aren't aware that plants breathe CO2.

[Edited on 11-12-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 11-12-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 11-12-2023 at 07:15 AM

The “3 year olds” are usually the ones in the car shouting “are we there yet” repeatedly, so!

The reason that “we’re not there yet” is because we’re not even going in the right direction yet. In fact even some of the climate change experts are now saying that what is being done might actually be speeding up climate change.

RFClark - 11-12-2023 at 11:17 PM

S,

Thanks for telling me what I meant to write.

But no I actually meant what I wrote. Usually but not always our brains develop into the early part of our second decade, with males generally taking the longer time.

“Prospective memory is an essential ability to meet everyday life challenges across the lifespan, constitutes a key element of developing autonomy and independence, and is especially important in old age with its increasing health-related prospective memory demands. Therefore, understanding mechanisms underlying prospective memory in old age has become a major effort in applied developmental research (e.g., Kliegel, Rendell, & Altgassen, 2008; McDaniel & Einstein, 2007).”

surabi - 11-13-2023 at 10:39 AM

The definition of "prospective memory" has nothing to do with "developing perspective". The word "prospective" is an adjective, describing something, not a noun. And prospective memory has nothing to do with a 3 year old being shortsided and self-centered.
Nice try.

RFClark - 11-13-2023 at 01:03 PM

Fine Dr. S,

You argue with the brain development folks!

BajaMama - 11-13-2023 at 02:29 PM

OMG if I ever want a little silly entertainment I just come to this particular chat to get in a giggle or two. 90 pages of blah blah blah over photos with absolutely no connection to climate change or global warming. Perhaps the ebbing and flowing tides, but certainly not rising water (I'll keep my opinion on that topic to myself).

AKgringo - 11-13-2023 at 05:23 PM

I am sure you have noticed that there are volcanos giving people trouble all around the world right now. That has to be our fault somehow!

mtgoat666 - 11-14-2023 at 05:43 AM

What Climate Change Is Doing to Our Sex Lives
How will our hotter world affect our intimacy?
https://newrepublic.com/article/173629/climate-changing-ever...

Other work by the same author!

RFClark - 11-14-2023 at 08:35 AM

mtgoat666 - 11-14-2023 at 12:32 PM

Let’ try to get clarkie’s mind off sex…

Here are baja palm trees not faring well in face of high sea level:

[Edited on 11-14-2023 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 11-14-2023 at 12:48 PM

The discovery of large volumes of water deep underground could positively effect climate change.

https://www.indy100.com/science-tech/ocean-beneath-earth-cru...

mtgoat666 - 11-14-2023 at 03:25 PM

High tide after rise in sea level:

[Edited on 11-14-2023 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 11-14-2023 at 05:06 PM

Goat,

Read the article! (Warning - Big Words!) sorry not many pictures! The Boffins who wrote it think it will effect Climate Change!

caj13 - 11-14-2023 at 06:24 PM

For all you deniers who pretend you actually understand science - and believe in it -
Heres some reporting on Attribution science - turns out using new tools and techniques - we now have a pretty good idea how much climate change is affecting extreme weather events - imagine that - science - advancing!
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/world/heat-wave-climate-chang...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/14/us/national-climate-assessmen...

David - you need to tell them about your palm tree - Because we all know that proves 200 years of science wrong!

caj13 - 11-14-2023 at 06:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

The discovery of large volumes of water deep underground could positively effect climate change.

https://www.indy100.com/science-tech/ocean-beneath-earth-cru...

richard - I read it - 400 miles deep in the crust - but i must of missed the part about how it could "positively effect climate change" could you point that part out to me?

caj13 - 11-14-2023 at 06:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I am sure you have noticed that there are volcanos giving people trouble all around the world right now. That has to be our fault somehow!

really? , I haven't seen any climate scientist, or volcanologist, or any other scientist saying the Volanoes are humans "fault" . So where would you get that information from? I would be very interested!

mtgoat666 - 11-14-2023 at 06:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

David - you need to tell them about your palm tree - Because we all know that proves 200 years of science wrong!

Palm trees participating in a science experiment:

[Edited on 11-15-2023 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 11-14-2023 at 08:07 PM

Caj13,

Think Irony here!

AKgringo - 11-14-2023 at 08:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

I am sure you have noticed that there are volcanos giving people trouble all around the world right now. That has to be our fault somehow!

I was joking when I posted that, but a quick search found this;

https://theconversation.com/how-climate-change-might-trigger...

surabi - 11-14-2023 at 08:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Caj13,

Think Irony here!

Next language lesson- being sarcastic isn't the definition of "irony". And you need an intervention on your wanton use of exclamation points.

RFClark - 11-14-2023 at 11:08 PM

S,

Edited for conciseness!

“ To distinguish irony from satire and sarcasm, remember that irony pertains to situations while satire and sarcasm are forms of expression. People make satire and sarcasm happen. Irony is just there.”

It’s ironic that it turns out to be true, this post is sarcasm!
.
I have about 1200 exclamation points left in my allotment for this year and it’s mid-November so use them or loose them!

If you can’t deal with the subject matter check the spelling and punctuation!

[Edited on 11-15-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 11-15-2023 by RFClark]

pacificobob - 11-15-2023 at 06:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Caj13,

Think Irony here!

Next language lesson- being sarcastic isn't the definition of "irony". And you need an intervention on your wanton use of exclamation points.

😂 Spot-on surabi

surabi - 11-15-2023 at 11:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

S,

It’s irony, this is sarcasm!

Like one person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.

[Edited on 11-15-2023 by RFClark]

Your example is also not what irony means. That different people view things differently is not an example of irony.

[Edited on 11-15-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 11-15-2023 at 12:14 PM

S,

Regardless you still can’t deal what’s being discussed! You just scold about spelling, punctuation and grammar. Siri does better!

caj13 - 11-15-2023 at 01:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Caj13,

Think Irony here!

so now you don't know the definition of Irony now? PM me an address, I'll send you one of them dictionary thingees, if you can read and spell - you will learn the correct meanings of lots of fancy words!

RFClark - 11-15-2023 at 02:13 PM

caj13,

I think that after JZ wondered if human climate change could be responsible for increased vulcanism which might actually be satire, it’s ironic that he found a link to an article making the same claim.

I have always had a link to grammar.com

surabi - 11-15-2023 at 02:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

S,

Regardless you still can’t deal what’s being discussed! You just scold about spelling, punctuation and grammar. Siri does better!

Oh, I can deal with what's being discussed. My point is actually that discussing things with poorly educated people who think they are smart is pointless.
Case in point- the article you posted about water 400 miles deep in the earth, and claiming that it could affect climate change, when the article suggests no such thing.

[Edited on 11-15-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 11-15-2023 at 02:50 PM

S,

I think that the fact that Doug had to remove all your and goat’s political posts today says how serious you are in speaking outside your climate dogma! Which is not at all!

As an example nothing but crickets from any of you about Hansen’s recent paper on how removing Sulphur from the air may actually cause the temperature to increase faster.

surabi - 11-15-2023 at 03:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

S,

I think that the fact that Doug had to remove all your and goat’s political posts today says how serious you are in speaking outside your climate dogma! Which is not at all!

Do you think that ending every sentence with an exclamation point makes what you have to say more important?
Forum moderators don't "have to" remove posts, they choose to.
And I guess you didn't notice that JZ's posts were also removed? Or did you just decide to ignore that since he's a fellow climate change denier?

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