BajaNomad

PSA! Buyer/Seller beware in Bahia Asuncion

BajaLuna - 12-23-2021 at 06:26 PM

I'm writing this with a heavy heart, please bear with me.

I've been going to Baja since a young child when my parents would take us kids there to surf, fish and vacation in this magical land. It's a special place to me and I wanted it to be for my family too. And buying a house there was a dream come true! We just retired this past Summer and were looking forward to finally spending a lot of time there. But we have sold our house now and we know the new buyers will be an asset to this community!

As you've probably heard by now, many people who have bought in Bahia Asuncion have been scammed. Word started getting out a year or so ago when people started talking to one another and sharing stories and realizing a lot of rotten stuff was going on. Sooner or later dirty little secrets reveal themselves and things come to light. And sooner or later dirty little secrets catch up with people!

The norm in town was to go through Alonso Lopez. Maybe at one time he was a reputable guy but greed got to him and harm was done to so many. Hey, all the Gringos buy through Alonso, he's a trustworthy guy they said. Yeah not so much! We bought our house via Alonso and a "Real Estate Company" in BA called Forgotten Coast Properties and our "Realtor" owned this supposed company. I say supposed because it too proved to be fictitious. It never existed. And has since been scrubbed from the internet. How convenient! Let's just say People present themselves as they want you to see them, but not necessarily authentically. Yes, sure Mexico has/had some pretty loose requirements to sell Real Estate, and as a former Realtor myself I understand that their requirements in licensing are loose and in some places non-existent but misrepresentation happened here. Thank goodness that since 2018 Baja Realtors have to be licensed, this is a good thing!

Like Udo, we bought 2 lots one with a house on it. And we were told that those lots would be "fused". But they weren't. We were told there would be a Title Search and we assumed any discrepancies would become apparent in the transfer process and perhaps that would have been the case had the transfer actually occurred but it didn't. We NEVER owned the house. NOTHING was ever recorded in our name. We too, paid Alonso thousands of dollars to get this done. We also paid Alonso to pay our taxes and our annual Fedeicomiso fees as we live really far away and he was our "Facilitator" on retainer. We requested receipts of everything from him, countless emails and phone calls...but he went MIA. None of it was ever paid and of course how do you pay your taxes and fees after that when nothing is in your name and how do you track it all down? If it wasn't for the goodwill of the former owners this could have been way worse and we could have lost everything. They essentially still held title. We were never the owners. What a complicated mess! In the end it took working with GOOD people, honest trustworthy people to get this all done and having to have trust in the former owner, the new buyer, ourselves and the Facilitator, Karla in Vizcaino. Karla is a professional and we highly recommend her! In the end it took all of us working together for months to get this all straightened out and finally legit!

Also, interestingly enough, a random name showed up in the paperwork. Come to find out he is someone who lives in BA. We've never met this person. We suspect Alonso needed a bogus witness and he was probably provided a name of a guy in town to fill in. This person was just as surprised as the rest of us that he showed up in the paperwork.

Also, just a head's up Alonso does own a few pieces of vacant land in BA that have been for sale for a long time, so be aware!

And another thing, none of our lots were correct as Diane had mentioned in her post in Udo's thread! When we were there with our "Realtor" we were shown where the lots lines were, the Realtor was wrong which isn't uncommon. 3 times they were recorded differently and they go off the last record in Santa Rosalia....so buyer beware, always get a survey! We are pretty sure after talking to certain Professionals that MANY lots in BA are not right, so please get them surveyed.

Recently several people living in BA voiced their concern to us that the reputation of BA has now been tainted and harmed by these grifters, snake oil salesmen. I hope not because Bahia Asuncion is an awesome village with hard working honest and great people, at least the majority of them! But what I would say is this: just because the people to go through to buy a house there are the "norm" that everyone has used, maybe things just haven't come to light yet in some people's transactions, things don't move very fast in Mexico and this mess in particular took years to reveal itself. Trust those who are worthy of your trust and don't trust wannabies and scam artists, talk to others who have boughten there and get their feedback, something we wished we would have done! And if Alonso has done your transaction, you just might want to give it a second look! And who knows how many different Baja towns Alonso has ran this scam in. I heard he was waiting tables in Cabo, sucks to be him!

In the end I do hope all these narcissistic sociopaths that were involved in intentionally scamming us, that their karma is gentle on them! Let the karma police sort that out!

If anyone is interested in buying or selling in this beautiful awesome village, Jaime is your man! He's honest, trustworthy and the BEST of Baja and he has had our backs for years!

We look forward to visiting Bahia Asuncion soon in our retirement travels, we love it there and I surely won't let a few bad scoundrels taint my love for Baja!

Viva Baja!


mtgoat666 - 12-23-2021 at 08:10 PM

If mexico wants to advance above 3rd world status, then mexico needs to get rid of govt corruption, and create a contract-law system that people can trust.
You got to be a fool to buy RE in mexico, or spend only what you are willing to lose entirely.

JZ - 12-23-2021 at 08:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Ifle can trust.
You got to be a fool to buy RE in mexico, or spend only what you are willing to lose entirely.


False. Stay out of topics you know little about.

mtgoat666 - 12-23-2021 at 08:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Ifle can trust.
You got to be a fool to buy RE in mexico, or spend only what you are willing to lose entirely.


False. Stay out of topics you know little about.



Every year we hear about a dozen+ RE deals in baja going to chit, innocent buyers/sellers being fleeced in a shady, chitty system. We only hear the tip of the iceberg...

JZ - 12-23-2021 at 08:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  


Every year we hear about a dozen+ RE deals in baja going to chit, innocent buyers/sellers being fleeced in a shady, chitty system. We only hear the tip of the iceberg...


If you haven't owned property in MX you have zero business commenting on the subject.

BajaLuna - 12-23-2021 at 09:12 PM

I disagree, MT Goat! Even after being ripped off, although we are lucky ones and lost just one cheek worth and it is painful...but I do feel Baja is still an awesome place to buy as long as those working on your behalf are the right people, you know like honest non-bullchitters, like real professionals who can truly represent you! People who take the buying and legal stuff of Real Estate seriously, because it IS a big money game everywhere, people's hard earned money in most cases... and that deserves working with those who respect that and those people ARE out there! If they're not recommending to you to get things like a survey, among other things true professionals should be recommending and ordering on your behalf then find someone else because there are those who DO know what they are doing in Baja! SEEK THEM!

P.S. MT Goat, you must not be aware that bad Real Estate deals happen even in the good ol' USA, well let me break it to you... It happens every single day and every single minute all over the world!

[Edited on 12-24-2021 by BajaLuna]

Mulege Canuck - 12-23-2021 at 09:14 PM

I “own” a place in Baja. I love my little shack but I only spent what I am willing to walk away from.

BajaLuna - 12-23-2021 at 09:32 PM

MTGoat, it IS sad, isn't it! Absolutely the system needs fine tuning but there actually IS a pretty good system but perhaps the average person isn't well versed in it, such as our case. The system is very complicated like mind-boggling so, and there is no way in most cases to know everything there is to know about buying in Baja heck most buyers don't know everything buying in the USA either hence why you need to be represented by a reputable professional. In my opinion this is KEY!

advrider - 12-23-2021 at 09:55 PM

BajaLuna, thanks for sharing and bringing to light how things can go wrong so easy. I would still buy in Baja but you have given me one more tool in my tool box. Glad it worked so well.

BajaLuna - 12-23-2021 at 10:18 PM

Mulege Canuck, I'm glad you're happy with your humble abode and yes you are right not to invest in Mexico more than you are willing to walk away from. That is sage advice and I agree!

I hope others come forth too (there are many more unfortunately) with their stories/truths that can help others because I personally don't want this to happen to anyone else. What has happened to us and others isn't right and it is so so very wrong. All I can do is stand tall in my own truth as embarrassing as our story is, but if we can avoid this happening to anyone else, then that's a good thing!

The world is a better place when we help one another! IMHO

BajaLuna - 12-23-2021 at 10:36 PM

Awww thanks, advrider! I think we all need all the tools we can get, and if we can't get them all, then rely on someone who has all those essential tools in their arsenal for you! Yes, the more we know about the system in Baja, the better! And most of us have barely brushed the surface IMHO. Especially if things have to be fixed. LORDY! You don't want to go there, trust me! My head has finally stopped spinning LOL!

Rossman - 12-24-2021 at 06:09 AM

Thank you for posting your nightmarish story Kristal. I have met the new owners of your place and in fact passed along your contact information to them, hesitantly, without your permission, but I'm glad it has ultimately worked out for you. The new folks will indeed be an asset to our community.

So this Alonzo dude, Was he from Asuncion or was his practice in another place? Did he only shaft the buyers from Asuncion or did his nefarious practices include other pueblos?

Hope to see you and Jim if you cruise through Asuncion.

pacificobob - 12-24-2021 at 07:31 AM

Many gringos are in "no bad days daze" when shopping RE in Mexico.
The due diligence the same buyer would likely employ in the north, is ignored and it's full steam ahead.
When our farm was purchased 16 years ago, the sale took longer due to my insistence on a title insurance policy from an American company being issued.
People all around me were telling me how everything was "all good"
Title issues here can be a minefield, no amount of homework is too much.
Oh ya....it's a good idea to learn the local language...it's helpful if you enjoy knowing WTF is happening.

[Edited on 12-24-2021 by pacificobob]

submarine_dbk - 12-24-2021 at 07:57 AM

Hi BajaLuna,

So sorry to hear of your troubles. Curious to know - did you ever receive a finalized copy of your fideicomiso and if so, did you discover it to be fraudulent?

Alonso also did business on the Cortez side in Punta Chivato. We actually had a successful experience with him - though it took a very, very long time (due to complications with Profepa and Semarnat), he was able to finally get our fideicomiso finalized with Banco Interacciones and a Notario in La Paz after many painful false starts with Bancomer in Sta. Rosalia. We'd heard there may have been issues with other folks, but never really were privy to details.

DianaT - 12-24-2021 at 10:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by submarine

_dbk  
Hi BajaLuna,

So sorry to hear of your troubles. Curious to know - did you ever receive a finalized copy of your fideicomiso and if so, did you discover it to be fraudulent?

Alonso also did business on the Cortez side in Punta Chivato. We actually had a successful experience with him - though it took a very, very long time (due to complications with Profepa and Semarnat), he was able to finally get our fideicomiso finalized with Banco Interacciones and a Notario in La Paz after many painful false starts with Bancomer in Sta. Rosalia. We'd heard there may have been issues with other folks, but never really were privy to details.


I don't know when your transaction took place, but Alonso really was a good honest agent. He did really well for us when we bought our home in BA in 2007. We became friends. He used to stay in our guest room once in while. He handled our work when we had to buy the front lot. We heard about people in Punta Chivato who had very good luck with Alonso, including one who could pay very little. Why he changed, I don't know. Because we were friends, it really stung when he screwed us.

We don't know when the change happened for sure or if it was a gradual change. Bajaluna bought our home around the same time Udo bought his home about 8 years ago. We had been hearing some negative things about Alonso and his partner regarding some property deals, but we still thought Alonso had done right by us. Even when Udo disclosed what happened to him, we still thought our deal was okay. Then earlier this year we received an e-mail from Banorte who had taken over the Banco Interacciones fideicomisos. They informed us that we had not paid any fees since 2013. They said the property was still in our names as was the fideicomiso. We had paperwork from Alonso, and one from the notario that said they paid off our fideicomiso. False Needless to say, we had words with the bank because it took them 8 years to contact us! Of course, the bank didn't care and just said it was our problem.

That is when we contacted Bajaluna and the nightmare began.
We started exchanging mountains of paperwork. We all had been screwed by Alonso and his local partner.

So, the Alonso you knew was the old Alonso who was a very good agent. As far as his local partner, well that is another story . I am happy he did well for you. We are sincerely sad that he changed.





[Edited on 12-24-2021 by DianaT]

pacificobob - 12-24-2021 at 11:55 AM

******bags are drawn to real estate like flies to a BBQ

BajaTed - 12-25-2021 at 01:39 PM

This:
"We also paid Alonso to pay our taxes and our annual Fedeicomiso fees as we live really far away and he was our "Facilitator" on retainer"

In BUSINESS, any fiduciary process must have 3 players, with two collusion and fraud is the norm. He groomed you & every one else for years as a physical abuser would.

I bought from seller, went to bank and tax agency myself.
Me, seller and bank/tax agency = 3
Trust but verify with the Notario also.

dtbushpilot - 12-25-2021 at 02:38 PM

I used Alonso years ago to facilitate the fide on a lot purchase. I’ve never developed the lot or followed up on the legalities of said purchase since buying it. I have been paying taxes and fide fees through my local bill paying service. Perhaps it would be a good time to have someone reputable review my paperwork.

pacificobob - 12-25-2021 at 06:57 PM

Yup , sounds like Alonzo is worty of a bit of an audit

mtgoat666 - 12-25-2021 at 07:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
Yup , sounds like Alonzo is worty of a bit of an audit


Skip the audit. Go straight to waterboarding.

Skipjack Joe - 12-25-2021 at 08:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by dtbushpilot  
I used Alonso years ago to facilitate the fide on a lot purchase. I’ve never developed the lot or followed up on the legalities of said purchase since buying it. I have been paying taxes and fide fees through my local bill paying service. Perhaps it would be a good time to have someone reputable review my paperwork.


I'm in the same boat. I have used Alonso here is Asuncion without any apparent issues.