BajaNomad - gates all over Baja

master key:

Perhaps your best post, goat!!! :lol:

4x4abc - 3-22-2022 at 10:48 AM

master keys - bolt cutters
cool

just last week I ignored a gate (on foot) and was escorted out by ranchers armed with rifles
we may have overstayed our welcome

BajaBlanca - 3-22-2022 at 11:19 AM

Ranchers armed with rifles is pretty serious!

David K - 3-22-2022 at 11:24 AM

Baja was once the land with "Hardly Any Fences"

TMW - 3-22-2022 at 11:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca

Ranchers armed with rifles is pretty serious!

A friend and I were at an off road race near Ojos Negros several years ago and as we driving just north of the Indian village on the Compadre Trail we were stopped by a truck full of angry men with rifles and shotguns.

The were looking for one of the men's daughter. Seems she ran off with some guy and they were out to get em. We had not seen the car they were in so they thanked us and moved on.

Maderita - 3-22-2022 at 01:08 PM

Thank you for volunteering your time to the community Harald. Great idea for a helpful database.
Here's one for your collection:
Guard shack with barrier. Local rancher calls it the "pluma". South of La Rumorosa on the dirt road to Laguna Hanson/parque nacional. Ejido Aubanel Vallejo.
32°29'35.20"N 116° 3'27.89"W
Google Earth does not show the guard shack, constructed in recent years.
Current status: The barrier is lowered most of the time on weekends and sometimes during the week during daylight hours. No hassles, no fee, and just a few seconds for the barrier to be raised.

[Edited on 3-22-2022 by Maderita]

Maderita - 3-22-2022 at 01:18 PM

A suggestion on the slight chance that you haven't already found a better way:
How about placemark pins on a Google Earth map? Color coded for locked, unlocked, fee, etc. Current status & brief notes in the description, which can be edited with updates.

You're almost certainly way ahead of me. What is your concept?

David K - 3-22-2022 at 02:08 PM

A suggestion on the slight chance that you haven't already found a better way:
How about placemark pins on a Google Earth map? Color coded for locked, unlocked, fee, etc. Current status & brief notes in the description, which can be edited with updates.

You're almost certainly way ahead of me. What is your concept?

Benchmark Maps will be glad to get a list of locked gates for the next edition of the Baja Atlas, I am sure. I added a couple when I worked on the First Edition, like the one on the Pole Line Road.
We need to add the Montevideo and Mission San Fernando locked gates, too.

Bajaboy - 3-22-2022 at 04:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Baja was once the land with "Hardly Any Fences"

Maybe the fences are to keep the bad hombres and rapists out :light:

4x4abc - 3-22-2022 at 05:19 PM

that's exactly what i have
for most I even have images

mtgoat666 - 3-22-2022 at 06:20 PM

that's exactly what i have
for most I even have images

I suggest you use some of the already available share sites. Openstreetmap.org might work well for something like this.
In climbing world you got sites like summitpost.
Lots of existing platforms to share backcountry beta.

4x4abc - 3-22-2022 at 07:29 PM

in the south almost everything is off limits now

Lee - 3-22-2022 at 08:39 PM

A gate NOB means the same as a gate SOB. It means private property and owner wants to keep people out. Whether it's legal or not has no bearing. Maybe people need to see a sign that reads KEEP THE F' OUT!

If you don't know the owner or have permission to open the gate, it's called trespassing. That has to be a difficult concern for some gringoes.

Am I missing something?

4x4abc - 3-22-2022 at 08:44 PM

A gate NOB means the same as a gate SOB. It means private property and owner wants to keep people out. Whether it's legal or not has no bearing. Maybe people need to see a sign that reads KEEP THE F' OUT!

If you don't know the owner or have permission to open the gate, it's called trespassing. That has to be a difficult concern for some gringoes.

Am I missing something?

yes, you are missing something
gates in Baja have several different functions
seasoned Baja travelers know that well

mtgoat666 - 3-22-2022 at 08:45 PM

Gringos tend to think gates are optional in Baja.
Many of these same gringos lose their chit if a Mexican opens a gate and enters their private property in usa.
Just saying!

azucena - 3-22-2022 at 08:59 PM

Nope Lencho! I mean , seriously, if someone opened a gate\ fence whatever ( especially with a bolt cutter or some such thing), designated as private property in The grand pais of the US of A you would likely be met by some sort of weapon with bullets ready to fire.
Why do people feel like entering someone's property in Mexico is their right? Some whacked gringo entitlement?
More and more of Baja is becoming off limits. Why? Because too many people show no respect or consideration, and because more property is being deemed valuable for tourism.
And whose fault is that?

Barry A. - 3-22-2022 at 09:01 PM

Often, on both sides of the border, "gates" are closed to keep livestock from wandering into places the owner does not want them to be. IF it's labeled "No Trespassing" that is different. When "no trespassing" signs are not present, the gate owner probably wants you to close the gate after you go thru. That's my experience, anyway, and common practice.

Maderita - 3-22-2022 at 09:28 PM

yes, you are missing something
gates in Baja have several different functions
seasoned Baja travelers know that well

4x4abc has it correct. Most of BC and BCS is ejido land. Ejidatarios have use of their share of the communal land. Much of it is rugged wilderness. Also open-range, with cattle roaming for miles to get a half-full stomach. Most of the gates we are talking about are on rural dirt roads, and for the purpose of containing livestock. Some have steel gates with padlocks. Further from civilization, most gates are constructed of barbed wire strung across sticks, with a typical bailing wire loop closure, and no lock.

Unless there is a sign stating not to pass, my protocol is: open the gate, close the gate behind and properly tension, proceed slowly if there are livestock. If the road leads directly to a ranch house, 15 kph and no dust. Stop and ask permission to pass after introducing yourself, politely stating your purpose, and perhaps offering a cold beer or soda. The ranchers know the area and may tell you about interesting places to see, as well as, what to avoid - problem places, narcos, washouts, etc.

Of course, this advice does not apply to urban areas, private driveways, and gates obviously meant to protect dwellings/businesses/private property.

If you are interested in how much of the peninsula is covered by ejido land, take a look at this map. Ejidos are shaded in blue.
https://databasin.org/maps/new/#datasets=a5e789aa10fb4efbbd8...

Don Pisto - 3-22-2022 at 10:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by azucena

Nope Lencho! I mean , seriously,

I'm confused. Why are you responding to me? :?:

you think you're the only "lencho" on this board?

azucena - 3-23-2022 at 03:51 AM

My apologies Lencho. I had meant to reply to Lee's post. Sorry for the confusion!

Lee - 3-23-2022 at 05:09 AM

yes, you are missing something
gates in Baja have several different functions
seasoned Baja travelers know that well

Seasoned travelers who come across closed gates have to make a distinction as to why it’s gated and closed. Locked gates a different story. 2-3 posts talk about keys and bolt cutters. The humor escapes me.

I’ll assume there wasn’t a lock or no trespassing sign on the gate you went through before you were “escorted off the prop by ranchers with rifles.”

Tom posts a bolt cutter is a way to get though a gate. DK thinks that’s a cool idea. Funny stuff for some.

Seasoned gringo travelers might or might not know how to make a distinction with gates. Your distinction was wrong. Armed ranchers can shoot you too. Your call.

Lee - 3-23-2022 at 05:31 AM

Gringos tend to think gates are optional in Baja.
Many of these same gringos lose their chit if a Mexican opens a gate and enters their private property in usa.
Just saying!

My gate is usually closed in Pesky. MXs don’t come in the gate ever. They’ll wait until noticed. Every time.

Don’t know if that’s courtesy or respect. A closed gate means something different to these ppl. They prob don’t feel entitled — like most gringoes. Seasoned or not.

John Harper - 3-23-2022 at 05:34 AM

If you are interested in how much of the peninsula is covered by ejido land, take a look at this map. Ejidos are shaded in blue.
https://databasin.org/maps/new/#datasets=a5e789aa10fb4efbbd8...

Wow. Almost the entire peninsula.

John

pacificobob - 3-23-2022 at 07:15 AM

What you are missing is the extremely common notion among gringos that baja is here for primary for their amusement.

David K - 3-23-2022 at 07:21 AM

Gates in Baja: actually, unless signed differently, a gate is used to keep livestock in or out (not people). A dirt road is used by different people and not just property owners. Simply close the gate after you pass through.

Ejido map. For future reference and easy to find, I have the ejido map saved in my maps section at VivaBaja.com as the third linked map: https://vivabaja.com/maps/

mtgoat666 - 3-23-2022 at 07:24 AM

What you are missing is the extremely common notion among gringos that baja is here for primary for their amusement.

The motorbikes and 4wds (1) travel too fast, (2) damage roads, and (3) cut new trails/roads and otherwise cause damage to land and vegetation.

I applaud the landowners erecting fences to keep out the riff raff.

4x4abc - 3-23-2022 at 07:25 AM

just a reminder

i asked what you think about a gate database

not about what you prefer to do with gates

locking gate 800.jpg - 209kB

pacificobob - 3-23-2022 at 08:35 AM

If the gate to my place is closed and someone I'm not expecting enters, they will likely receive an unpleasant greeting .
Local Mexicans, never disrespect my closed gate.

[Edited on 3-24-2022 by pacificobob]

bajatrailrider - 3-23-2022 at 09:52 AM

Only riff raft nature Natzi has spoken . Off road rules here long after your sick life . Dont like it in Baja stay home you dont live here. So your nature Natzi ways keep in your backyard .

Twotall70 - 3-23-2022 at 02:26 PM

Nature Natzi?

4x4abc - 3-23-2022 at 02:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Twotall70

Nature Natzi?

like with children - ignore the bad, praise the good

pacificobob - 3-23-2022 at 03:33 PM

Or perhaps enable spell check.

Bajaboy - 3-23-2022 at 07:25 PM

What you are missing is the extremely common notion among gringos that baja is here for primary for their amusement.

BINGO!

BajaTed - 3-24-2022 at 06:51 AM

What you are missing is the extremely common notion among gringos that baja is here for primary for their amusement.

BINGO!

Which in turn leads to the what the north (alta) and south are called (baja) by border region folks in MX about California. They never lost the war ever time I ask why when I'm corrected for using the word.

My gate addition is on the road to the Jatay region off of 1D. I've ridden by horseback from there to the Libre road by the turn off to Guadalupe valley. The LNG pipeline road from the Sempra plant to the border by the Otay peaking power plants has NO gates the whole way to the border :bounce:

Jinete Viejo - 3-25-2022 at 12:27 AM

N30 51.188 W115 50.846
On Feb 13th at the above location, a group of 3 motorcycle riders were turned around by a rancher with a rifle. He was cordial and wasn't interested in a payment, but was adamant that no one could pass through the gate.
Interestingly, a rancher smiled and waved us through this gate in 2020.

aburruss - 3-25-2022 at 05:48 PM

To Harald's post:

January 2022:

31.82490, -116.26330 - Locked Gate. Rancher opened for $5USD per person

31.71752, -115.97668 - Locked Gate. No easy way around

June 2021:

26.20474, -111.40155 - Locked Gate. There's a way around on an established path to the north.

25.86204, -112.0146 - Locked Gate. There's a "path" around to the east. Not really legit, but do-able.

25.87985, -112.00793 - Locked Gate. No "real" way around.

4x4abc - 3-25-2022 at 08:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by aburruss

To Harald's post:

January 2022:

31.82490, -116.26330 - Locked Gate. Rancher opened for $5USD per person

31.71752, -115.97668 - Locked Gate. No easy way around

June 2021:

26.20474, -111.40155 - Locked Gate. There's a way around on an established path to the north.

25.86204, -112.0146 - Locked Gate. There's a "path" around to the east. Not really legit, but do-able.

25.87985, -112.00793 - Locked Gate. No "real" way around.

thank you!

exept the lat 2 I had them already in the database

shame for the last 2
they are on the Old Baja Road

mtgoat666 - 3-25-2022 at 09:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by aburruss

If you gringos are strategizing ways around locked gates on private land, then me thinks the ranchers need to install boobytraps to stop scofflaws…

surabi - 3-25-2022 at 09:35 PM

That has been my experience as well after living in Mexico for 20 years. Mexicans will not enter your property or even open an unlocked gate, even if they are a friend or close neighbor. They stand outside of it and call your name.

JC43 - 3-26-2022 at 08:18 AM

What is the difference between Mexico and the US talking about private properties??? Everywhere inside the US when there is only a sign "POSTED" a Gringo is respecting that. Because the owenr can shoot you without notice. Why are you guys not excepting the same in Mexico. That has nothing to do with "maybe we are not welcome".

JC43 - 3-26-2022 at 08:34 AM

just a reminder
i asked what you think about a gate database
not about what you prefer to do with gates

Harald, as a long time user of this board you know that EVERY thread is derailing. Start something about mosquitos in Baja and there will be one (or more users) making an elephant out of it.

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by JC43]

bajatrailrider - 3-26-2022 at 09:17 AM

That is true the baja blowhards try to derail all posts .

Lee - 3-26-2022 at 09:47 AM

Everywhere inside the US when there is only a sign "POSTED" a Gringo is respecting that. Because the owenr can shoot you without notice. Why are you guys not excepting the same in Mexico. That has nothing to do with "maybe we are not welcome".

Why is there a data base on trespassing? Harald made a judgment call on going through a gate and armed MXs escort him off the property. Geeze. That would be enough to make me think twice about going through any gate.

Go through a gate on the wrong property and be shot or disappear.

Things change. Gates go up. If you don't own the property, you have NO rights to be on the property. That's a difficult proposition to accept for entitled gringoes.

Get over yourselves! Natzi nature trespassers.

geoffff - 3-26-2022 at 11:15 AM

Yes, please!

I would love to get a copy of your gate database, Harald!

I really like knowing not to get my hopes up too much for doing a particular route, if there has been a locked gate encounter there before.

geoffff - 3-26-2022 at 11:21 AM

This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068, -114.4749):

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff]

4x4abc - 3-26-2022 at 11:40 AM

just a reminder
i asked what you think about a gate database
not about what you prefer to do with gates

I know, I know!
But since we have a good number of knowledgeable and kind experts on this forum, I am willing to sift through the garbage.
Like in archeology - lotsa dirt, few gems

4x4abc - 3-26-2022 at 11:43 AM

This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068, -114.4749):

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff]

my database would have told you

David K - 3-26-2022 at 12:00 PM

Maybe not always the case, but any unlocked gates I have come to were to control animals, not people.
You cannot get to Mission Guadalupe without going through four gates.
I have asked about passing through when I saw people at a gate and have been welcomed to pass. If there is a sign "No hay paso" then I don't pass through an unlocked gate. If no sign (as cows don't read), then I pass... reclosing the gate. I also have come across ranchers walking on a dirt road with rifles. They tell me it for the 'lions' (Mountain lions/ pumas).

Not everybody goes to Baja for a Cabo vacation or to race. Some of us have a love of exploring the country and connecting to Nature.

Maderita - 3-26-2022 at 03:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

...Maybe not always the case, but any unlocked gates I have come to were to control animals, not people. ...

Thank you David. For those who have never encountered the ubiquitous Baja style wilderness cattle/livestock gate, here is a classic example.
https://www.race-dezert.com/home/norra-mexican-500-prerun-45...

Assuming that it is on undeveloped land, in the middle-of-nowhere, and there is no sign to say keep-out, this type of gate is for the purpose of letting vehicles pass, while containing livestock.
Note the short horizontal stick by Alfonso's left arm. That is a typical configuration, using the stick as a lever to tension the wire gate.
(photo borrowed for educational purposes only, from Race-deZert)

David K - 3-26-2022 at 03:21 PM

El gusto es mio, Maderita!
I have been driving Baja's back-country roads since I was 16 (1974) so I speak from experience and not something I saw on the Internet, lol.
TW and I will be back south in a couple days. It has been too long without a "Baja fix" for me!!!

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by David K]

Bajaboy - 3-26-2022 at 03:45 PM

This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068, -114.4749):

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff]

That's a simple fix. The Vigilancia will happily open the gate for you. There is no gate from the north. Awesome road that we travel often. There is also an arroyo just south that you can take to the beach. Via the beach you can connect to the road again.

bajatrailrider - 3-26-2022 at 03:53 PM

:lol:

bajatrailrider - 3-26-2022 at 04:06 PM

One question Lee if the guy put up unlocked gate, and he does not own property? vising mexico and living here thinking is different Many dirt roads have markers that Mexico put in . It is not legal to block road can anybody block the road yes . So yes if locked dont cut it . If no sign open close get to ranch house stop and ask. Where I live yes some locked gates . I have the keys to many gates given by owner to me. Except most of the gates you can take other roads . That lead to both side of locked gates.

Lee - 3-26-2022 at 08:34 PM

just last week I ignored a gate (on foot) and was escorted out by ranchers armed with rifles
we may have overstayed our welcome
. Harald's words.

I only reference the situation Harald encountered.

That encounter was either an exception, or the new norm.

My opinion doesn't apply to every fence on every road. Not talking about fences keeping cattle in.

No matter. Harald, a seasoned nomad, judged it was OK to pass through a gate I'm assuming had no sign reading keep out, and assume Harald wouldn't go through a gate like that.

I'm reacting to an extreme situation.

bajatrailrider - 3-26-2022 at 08:46 PM

Last rancho around here about 10 years ago came out with rifles . To greet people at there gate big mistake. Where reported to army drug lab all jailed.

4x4abc - 3-26-2022 at 09:37 PM

just last week I ignored a gate (on foot) and was escorted out by ranchers armed with rifles
we may have overstayed our welcome
. Harald's words.

I only reference the situation Harald encountered.

That encounter was either an exception, or the new norm.

My opinion doesn't apply to every fence on every road. Not talking about fences keeping cattle in.

No matter. Harald, a seasoned nomad, judged it was OK to pass through a gate I'm assuming had no sign reading keep out, and assume Harald wouldn't go through a gate like that.

I'm reacting to an extreme situation.

on my recon trip I found this ranch sitting right on the (government built) road.
first gate was open, outward gate was closed but not locked
no limiting signs
I talked to the rancher
I inquired about the old cemetery on the end of the road
rancher said the road was not drivable
but the hike was only 3 km

so, when I came back for my hike I asked and got permission to park the car
no sign posted at the gate,
but out of respect i did not want to ignore their words "Bad road"
when I started to hike a second rancher showed up and said it was a bad idea to hike to the cemetery
I hear that often from locals "Bad road", "No road", "Hiking not recommended"
they have no idea what I consider a bad road or an impossible hike
so I always say "Thank you!" and do what I think is right for my capabilities
in this case the road was in excellent condition
with recent tire tracks
meaning they lied to me
meaning they did not want me to go
I will not speculate on their motivation
who knows what they are growing out there (lotsa water)
no word of no trespassing or private property

I had some feedback from local Mexican friends telling me that they have gone where i went many times
So it seems the ranchers did not want foreigners hike on their land
I don't like it - but I respect it

mtgoat666 - 3-26-2022 at 10:56 PM

If you like public lands for hiking and exploring, the usa and canada are the place to be. Mexico has virtually no public lands so gates are what you got to deal with.
gringos go to mexico to shred private lands, because blm and forest service dont allow that in usa, and ejidos in baja are so sparsely populated they often cant stop gringos… but things are changing, narcos are doing rural pot farming, and ranchers finally are getting fed up with careless/destructive offroaders, so closing roads.

bajatrailrider - 3-27-2022 at 09:29 AM

The only thing careless clueless are anything you write. Hiking in states worthless your scared in Baja . Great we dont need stupid people like you here. Thanks to ranchers giving me keys to gates so I dont need look at stupid . People like you you know nothing about Baja. Just garbage writer looked in room too scared to come out.

Lee - 3-27-2022 at 10:16 AM

If you like public lands for hiking and exploring, the usa and canada are the place to be. Mexico has virtually no public lands so gates are what you got to deal with.
gringos go to mexico to shred private lands, because blm and forest service dont allow that in usa, and ejidos in baja are so sparsely populated they often cant stop gringos… but things are changing, narcos are doing rural pot farming, and ranchers finally are getting fed up with careless/destructive offroaders, so closing roads.

4x4abc - 3-27-2022 at 11:03 AM

it's a little more complicated
but in general, you are right on

geoffff - 3-27-2022 at 12:51 PM

just last week I ignored a gate (on foot) and was escorted out by ranchers armed with rifles
we may have overstayed our welcome
. Harald's words.

in this case the road was in excellent condition
with recent tire tracks
meaning they lied to me
meaning they did not want me to go
I will not speculate on their motivation
who knows what they are growing out there (lotsa water)
no word of no trespassing or private property

Not a gate ... but a few years back I posted (& later retracted) a story about encountering a big stump randomly blocking the road. I dragged it off the road, and later came to understand why it had been put there: The road ended at a canyon with a big grow op in it. I figure they wanted to know if they were getting any visitors.

geoffff - 3-27-2022 at 12:55 PM

This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068, -114.4749):

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff]

Thank you Bajaboy for the tip! I will do one of those two things the next time I pass through that area.

Do you have any idea WHY the gate is there? To prevent fishing poachers from leaving the back way? I know there is a lot of worry about abalone poaching on the Vizcaino peninsula

-- Geoff

[Edited on 3-27-2022 by geoffff]

4x4abc - 3-27-2022 at 07:35 PM

what I have learned in many years of driving Baja - a rock at the beginning of a road indicates a dead end. Could be a mile or 10. Rocks are rarely too big to pass over

DSC_7365 rock blocking road 800.jpg - 250kB

DSC_7365 rock blocking road 800.jpg - 250kB

AKgringo - 3-27-2022 at 08:12 PM

This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068, -114.4749):

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff]

For what it is worth, I drove those roads in November of 2021, and did not encounter any closed gates.

The icing on the cake was that every road I drove on the peninsula had been freshly graded. It was so recent, that the grader tire tracks were still visible!

pacificobob - 3-27-2022 at 08:25 PM

X3

[Edited on 3-28-2022 by pacificobob]

Bajaboy - 3-27-2022 at 08:50 PM

This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068, -114.4749):

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff]

Yes, the gate to the south is definitely there to prevent poachers. We love to camp at Tordillo, the beach just to the west, and the vigilancia always come out to say hi. If you are driving south on the road, there is a vigilancia outpost about a mile or two before the gate. Stop there and and ask if they can open it for you. We always offer some pesos for gas. The people out there are super welcoming as long as they know you are good people.

geoffff - 3-27-2022 at 10:47 PM

Harald, that rock thing! Dead end. I will start looking for it!

Jinete Viejo - 3-27-2022 at 11:46 PM

geoffff, the gates are to stop lobster poachers during the off season. I've traveled that road in February and the gates were unlocked.

azucena - 3-28-2022 at 08:11 AM

X3

[Edited on 3-28-2022 by pacificobob]

BajaGringo - 3-28-2022 at 08:20 PM

yes, you are missing something
gates in Baja have several different functions
seasoned Baja travelers know that well

There's a lot more to this story and the key point is to understand who these people are that are putting up those locked gates? It’s easy to blame the cartels but it is highly unlikely that more than 1% of them are directly connected to cartel activity. And even 1% is probably a high number.

Everybody here has heard the advice to run away from buying ejido land as it’s nearly impossible for an ejidatario to obtain his/her “Dominio Pleno” for their parcel in the ejido, as it required a unanimous vote by ALL ejido members - not just those present in any given meeting. At one point in time, that was probably sound advice as it was difficult if not impossible to get a 100% vote on anything without some serious negotiating and usually money changing hands. And quite often there are a LOT of hands in an ejido.

That ejido map you linked to is interesting to look at but really does not give an accurate portrayal of reality today, except to underscore their political clout..

For the last few decades they have been using that political clout, slowly pushing through a series of legal changes to the laws governing ejidos, their agrarian rights and more specifically – giving ejido leadership the ability to get around some of those 100% vote requirements. Those changes are now facilitating the transition of legal control over vast amounts of land down here from ejido management to an ejidatario’s private control. It’s hard to find an ejido today that isn’t currently dividing up and handing out certificates of Dominio Pleno to their ejido members. Do ejido politics come into play? Of course they do but it's in the best interests of the majority of the members to transition the control of the land. And they are doing just that.

The reason that map you linked to still shows all that land as ejido is because most of these new land owners are happy to just sit on their certificates of Dominio Pleno. Putting off registering the Dominio Pleno at the registrar’s office means that any taxes they pay remain at little to none. Seriously. They would of course need to record it in the event of a looming sale of the land and in most cases, that is exactly what they do.

Ejido land that been used for farming / cattle operations will likely continue that way for awhile and the incentive may not be there just yet to privatize.

But like it or not, a large portion of that ejido today is moving to private control and many of those new locked gates are coming from these new landowners. You’re foolish to believe that they don’t mind you crossing their property in finding a way around that locked gate and especially if they catch you cutting one of their padlocks. Some of them charge fees to cross and it's their right. I have had some tourists tell me stories of how they were "ripped off", paying 10 bucks to pass through a locked gate that used to be open, but that's just the new reality.

Times are changing and you'd better get used to it. Or consider wearing body armor.

geoffff - 3-28-2022 at 09:18 PM

Thank you BajaGringo for this window into why Baja land is the way it is, and how it is changing.

pacificobob - 3-29-2022 at 08:48 AM

I am often amused by mention of cartel activity in baja.
Usually cited by gringos who have zero experience in the parts of Mexico where it conspicuously exists. I'd be willing to bet there is more cartel activity in alta California

DouglasP - 3-29-2022 at 12:51 PM

26.904796, -112.402351

Locked metal gate on a road across the peninsula starting by the Guadalupe mission ruins west of Mulege.

Been looking for a way across for awhile now. This looked promising, until the gate!

Harald, I would like access to your data base for sure.

4x4abc - 3-29-2022 at 01:06 PM

the gate is visible on Google Earth

gate.jpg - 126kB

4x4abc - 3-29-2022 at 01:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP

26.904796, -112.402351

Locked metal gate on a road across the peninsula starting by the Guadalupe mission ruins west of Mulege.

Been looking for a way across for awhile now. This looked promising, until the gate!

Harald, I would like access to your data base for sure.

I am looking for a way to share information in a way that is can't be copied.

4x4abc - 3-29-2022 at 02:38 PM

I am looking for a way to share information in a way that is can't be copied.

Kind of a oxymarooon, isn't that? Seems like if you present it in a format that's actually useful to others, that would make it vulnerable to copying. :?:

How would that work?

Edit: "Oxymaroon"? Fer crissakes-- this sensoring software sometimes gets in the way of normal communications. :mad:

[Edited on 3-29-2022 by lencho]

I so appreciate that you understand my pain

BajaGringo - 3-29-2022 at 03:57 PM

I am looking for a way to share information in a way that is can't be copied.

Kind of a oxymarooon, isn't that? Seems like if you present it in a format that's actually useful to others, that would make it vulnerable to copying. :?:

How would that work?

Edit: "Oxymaroon"? Fer crissakes-- this sensoring software sometimes gets in the way of normal communications. :mad:

[Edited on 3-29-2022 by lencho]

I so appreciate that you understand my pain

What software are using to create your database? I created a lot of databases over the years using Access and they have some pretty good tools that will probably make your tables as copy-proof as possible on a shared database.

geoffff - 3-31-2022 at 11:03 AM

I am looking for a way to share information in a way that is can't be copied.

I feel you.

But as a computer geek whose hobby is copying data that doesn't want to be copied, I can tell you this is impossible. You can make it inconvenient to copy, that is all.

-- Geoff

geoffff - 3-31-2022 at 11:08 AM

This is why I don't share my data online. Sad.

4x4abc - 3-31-2022 at 04:51 PM

This is why I don't share my data online. Sad.

Yup.

Though Harold, I'm curious why you're concerned about piracy? You think somebody might want to make money off your hard work using this data?

exactly

I want to make money with my work
with the beginning of navigation apps etc, every waypoint has become a commodity
I record tracks for a living - so I know a little about it

mtgoat666 - 3-31-2022 at 06:27 PM

This is why I don't share my data online. Sad.

Yup.

Though Harold, I'm curious why you're concerned about piracy? You think somebody might want to make money off your hard work using this data?

exactly

I want to make money with my work
with the beginning of navigation apps etc, every waypoint has become a commodity
I record tracks for a living - so I know a little about it

You are asking for people to contribute waypoints to your business of selling repackaged waypoints. What are you going to pay us for contributing gate waypoints? :?:

Are you paying contributors by Venmo?

4x4abc - 3-31-2022 at 06:59 PM

If you contribute I'll pay you like Google would
$0.02 per 1,000 clicks

by the way, I have recorded about 500 gates so far
about 10 locations have been contributed by our Nomad community

and since we are a community I have shared hundreds of tracks and locations
money is not my motivation to document everything Baja
but I need to buy food sometimes

[Edited on 4-1-2022 by 4x4abc]

bajatrailrider - 4-1-2022 at 09:00 AM

I wont tell you where locked gates are . Except I can take you past them have keys . Super routes two or 4 wheels.

DouglasP - 4-7-2022 at 12:48 PM

the gate is visible on Google Earth

It's a shame, because if you follow that road on GE it looks like it crosses over to the Pacific side.

DouglasP - 4-7-2022 at 03:40 PM

the gate is visible on Google Earth

My GE doesn't show that much detail, wonder why.

4x4abc - 4-7-2022 at 04:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP