BajaNomad - Protecting Todos Santos

reminds me of what I learned in Los Angeles:
An environmentalist is someone who built last year.

A plaque with that on it would be something! Sort of like "what's okay for me is not for thee".

surfhat - 2-11-2024 at 04:18 PM

What does that mean? Built last year? Clarity please.

What environmentalist builds anything anyway? They do serve to inform the rest of us on what could happen if we ignore the indications of humankind's behavior toward protecting our planet for future generations to come.

I suspect these future generations will have little to thank us for what we are leaving behind through our short sightedness.

My belief that humanity will wise up in time to avert what is coming is lacking until I see folks, mostly the younger set, who step up for defending our existence on this one and only planet humanity has been given.

mtgoat666 - 2-11-2024 at 05:23 PM

Some day an asteroid will clean up earth. Maybe the successor dominant species wont flock it up next time.

surabi - 2-11-2024 at 07:36 PM

reminds me of what I learned in Los Angeles:
An environmentalist is someone who built last year.

I guess you don't know any actual environmentalists.

Or do you not make any distinction between building resorts and hotels catering to tourists who have no regard for how much water and other resources they waste and how much garbage they create, and an individual who builds themselves a modest cabin
without destroying any of the natural environment around them, putting in sustainable energy sources and practicing conservation?

Alan - 2-12-2024 at 09:59 AM

reminds me of what I learned in Los Angeles:
An environmentalist is someone who built last year.

I'm afraid this kind are very rare. The majority I encounter are the self-proclaimed environmentalists more like 4X4abc described

Pave paradise and put up a freaking parking lot

Lee - 2-12-2024 at 11:04 AM

Environmentalists sounding the alarm.

Todos isn't a lost cause but it's happening. I see development between La Poza and San Pedrito coming in. Semarnat has been bought off. Where is Profepa? More McMansions in my area. More pools. 2 story limit? Not if you have money.

$700/night at Rancho Pescadero and 103 rooms. Outside money. Triunfo is next.

Address the issues if you know the area. Otherwise, it's ignorant bias from misguided gringos.

I don't like it but that's the way it is. Don't have a dog in this fight anymore.

pauldavidmena - 2-12-2024 at 01:15 PM

I remember seeing several 3-story monstrosities from your place as if the regulation was only a suggestion. On El Otro Lado there are quite a few homes being built into dunes with the same audacity. Occasionally there is enough of an uproar to halt construction on one of them, but those are more the exception than the rule. I hope groups like these are able to make an impact before Todos Santos becomes a Paradise Lost.

surabi - 2-12-2024 at 02:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alan

reminds me of what I learned in Los Angeles:
An environmentalist is someone who built last year.

I'm afraid this kind are very rare. The majority I encounter are the self-proclaimed environmentalists more like 4X4abc described

As I said, then you don't know any actual environmentalists.

Misrepresenting actual environmentalists, as if they are all hypocrites, isn't funny or okay.
It's akin to saying all Christians are hypocrites because some pastor spews hate speech and is a child molester.

pacificobob - 2-12-2024 at 04:48 PM

Those darned environmentalists !
I long for the air quality of 1960s los Angeles

4x4abc - 2-13-2024 at 12:07 AM

an individual who builds themselves a modest cabin
without destroying any of the natural environment around them, putting in sustainable energy sources and practicing conservation?

if you are serious about protecting what is left, you don't build a cabin
sustainable is leaving Nature alone
and by the way, it sounds a bit like "I am better than the others"

Alan - 2-13-2024 at 08:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Alan

reminds me of what I learned in Los Angeles:
An environmentalist is someone who built last year.

I'm afraid this kind are very rare. The majority I encounter are the self-proclaimed environmentalists more like 4X4abc described

As I said, then you don't know any actual environmentalists.

That was my point

wilderone - 2-13-2024 at 09:40 AM

if everyone built a modest cabin, the cumulative effect, regardless if those humans "put[ ] in sustainable energy sources and practicing conservation" is still affecting the empty space that existed before the cabin was built and the humans started creating their polluting ways: trash, sewer, pesticides, burning? Contributing to inadequate landfills, noise, light, pets. destroyed habitat for creatures. Own up.

surabi - 2-13-2024 at 11:39 AM

I see- so you don't see any difference between a person building a home for themselves on 100 square meters of land, while taking care not to disturb the natural environment around them, and a person building a 4 story hotel with 200 rooms, destroying the natural landscape in the process.

It's impossible to carry on a sane conversation with people like you.

pacificobob - 2-14-2024 at 07:10 AM

there exists a large difference between "picking fights" and calling out asinine posts.

[Edited on 2-14-2024 by pacificobob]

surabi - 2-14-2024 at 09:26 AM

Thanks, Bob. The misinformation and disinformation that is so ubiquitous these days, if left unchallenged, becomes truth in the eyes of many. I don't consider calling it out everytime it appears to be "picking fights", either.

Lee - 2-14-2024 at 03:52 PM

Thanks, Bob. The misinformation and disinformation that is so ubiquitous these days, if left unchallenged, becomes truth in the eyes of many. I don't consider calling it out everytime it appears to be "picking fights", either.

greengoes - 2-14-2024 at 04:31 PM

I've noticed that the organization has a presence on Facebook as well, so it seems legit. One can't join (see https://www.protecttodossantos.org/join-us without entering one's contact info

Nah, mate. Just click on "Menu" at top to see all of the web site.
You're welcome. :thumbup:

greengoes - 2-14-2024 at 04:34 PM

BTW Did they fix their water problem? If my memory serves me right the university
and the hotel were taking it all.

wilderone - 2-14-2024 at 04:37 PM

"The misinformation and disinformation that is so ubiquitous these days, if left unchallenged, becomes truth in the eyes of many. I don't consider calling it out everytime it appears ...." every time? wow - mellow out dude. BTW, your truth is not my truth.

surabi - 2-14-2024 at 05:42 PM

You are obviously unclear on what the word "truth" means. (Hint: Opinions, beliefs and theories are not "truth".)

[Edited on 2-15-2024 by surabi]

towntaco - 2-14-2024 at 06:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by greengoes

BTW Did they fix their water problem? If my memory serves me right the university
and the hotel were taking it all.

Water rationing is still in place.

pauldavidmena - 3-13-2024 at 02:08 PM

This modestly sized development, advertised in the Baja Western Onion, boasting "residential beachfront lots."

surabi - 3-13-2024 at 02:17 PM

2,500- 4,000 square meter lots are "modest" ???

[Edited on 3-13-2024 by surabi]

pauldavidmena - 3-13-2024 at 03:38 PM

2,500- 4,000 square meter lots are "modest" ???

[Edited on 3-13-2024 by surabi]

I meant that it isn't the sprawling mega development proposed for north of Todos Santos. It's "only" 10 lots, but the "beachfront" pitch smacks of an attempt to build on - or abutting - the Federal Zone.

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2024 at 05:42 PM

2,500- 4,000 square meter lots are "modest" ???

[Edited on 3-13-2024 by surabi]

Million dollar bare lots! They must be better than modest!

Cancamo - 3-13-2024 at 07:52 PM

Todos Santos lost it's character soon after the single track dirt road was paved from San Lucas, (not referring to the current four lane freeway).

Everything began changing in the Cape region after the construction of the airport, SJD.

The current pace of development and influx of wealth is shocking. Like any special place in the world, the rising property values and competition for housing with newcomers is displacing locals that have lived there for generations.

Soon the unique Choyero lifestyle will be a thing of the past.

Como dicen la jente, "el dinero manda".

pauldavidmena - 3-14-2024 at 04:34 AM

When my wife and I first start coming to Todos Santos, we looked at ocean view (not quite beachfront) properties in El Pescadero in the $20,000 to $40,000 range and thought they were a little too expensive at the time. We've clearly been priced out by now.

As the OP said, the current goal of concerned Santeños is to prevent further development on sand dunes and obstruction of public access to the beach. Even that seems a bridge too far at this juncture.

Lee - 3-14-2024 at 07:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

2,500- 4,000 square meter lots are "modest" ???

[Edited on 3-13-2024 by surabi]

Million dollar bare lots! They must be better than modest!

Bought a 6,500m2 lot from a gringo who knew the ejido owner. He paid $25k US. I paid him $155k US for it. What I sold for was obscene.

pauldavidmena - 3-15-2024 at 05:19 AM

It's the bullet "Federal Zone beach conservation concession pending" that really tells the tale.

mtgoat666 - 3-15-2024 at 08:07 AM

It's the bullet "Federal Zone beach conservation concession pending" that really tells the tale.

they should just create lots that don't require development in the 20 meters zone requiring federal concession.
since we all now coastlines advance or retreat, perhaps the lots should be created with adequate buffer to accommodate future shoreline retreat, so perhaps lots created with enough space to provide a 40 meter setback of development.
also, give that the sea level is rising, perhaps the feds should increase concession setback from 20 to 40 and perhaps 60 meters, eh? this would allow the public to use beaches without residents intruding on beach users privacy!

Biznaga - 3-23-2024 at 11:10 AM

Maybe this is old news for some of you, but just in case you had not seen this yet, here it is, copied direct, from the March Gringo Gazette:

"Looks like Todos Santos is in the middle of a bit of a tiff with the La Paz government over some pretty ambitious urban planning. The latest proposal from the city planners is stirring up more than just the dust in this tranquil town. They’re talking about ballooning the population from a cozy 12,000 to a whopping 150,000 in just a decade. And get this – they’re considering allowing buildings to reach the sky with 4-5 stories, all while the town’s still scratching its head over basics like sewage, water, and power.

Not surprisingly, the folks of Todos Santos are having none of it. They’re rallying together, cooking up alternative plans, and have even lawyered up for a battle. They’re pressing the government for a chat to hash it out. So, grab your popcorn, because this is going to be interesting. Will the charm of Todos Santos triumph? Stay tuned to find out!"

https://gringogazette.com/2024/03/defend-todos-santos-moveme...

surfhat - 3-24-2024 at 12:13 PM

I spent some wintertime months for a few years in this once lovely area and I treasure the locals I came to know. This was in the late 70's and early 80's.

Parking at San Pedrito for free before the campground up on a small bluff with an overlook was a reward for myself and the many friends I came to know who would return every winter.

Even after the campground came to be, it was still a treasure for a few months every winter.

Imagining all the changes going on lately, does not inspire me to want to return. I would love to reconnect with these treasured friends while I still am able. Even more, the locals are having to deal with trying to protect what brought them all there to begin with.

I hope they can mitigate the damage that profiteering is bringing. Those were some magical times.

I saw the same thing happen to the East Cape and San Jose del Cabo in the 80's, 90's and early 2,000's to the point that I had trouble finding my way out to east cape road in the early 2010's. From a population of 30,000 to a quarter of a million fifteen years ago was not helpful.

I hope the developer greed can be moderated for Todos and Pescadero but I suspect that may be already history. I hope it is not hopeless.

About all anyone can do is to have their own sanctuary to keep the outside world at bay. I hope that works for my dear friends still there. I will forever be grateful for their friendships when we all were living in such simple and relatively uncomplicated times.

The water issue should be paramount and it is not. Keep draining those precious aquifers for the $. Gawd, the local water was sooo good and safe to drink back then. I hope it still is.

Dreams of the past are worth remembering. So are the treasured friends I still value to this day for the times we shared.

One of my first visits around 75 or so, I got in late at night and the only restaurant I could find still open on the highway in Pescadero served me the fish tacos I ordered straight of a can of sardines.

Why that still triggers my memory banks is because I laughed at the moment and knew this would be a memory that would be with me for all my days. I know I ate there again a number of times and always got fresh fish. There were very few choices in those days.

Best wishes to my old, make that older friends, and hope they have made their own sanctuaries to get them through their days in a special place like few others.

Peace love and fresh fish tacos to all Nomads.

chippy - 3-24-2024 at 02:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surfhat

I spent some wintertime months for a few years in this once lovely area and I treasure the locals I came to know. This was in the late 70's and early 80's.

Parking at San Pedrito for free before the campground up on a small bluff with an overlook was a reward for myself and the many friends I came to know who would return every winter.

Even after the campground came to be, it was still a treasure for a few months every winter.

Imagining all the changes going on lately, does not inspire me to want to return. I would love to reconnect with these treasured friends while I still am able. Even more, the locals are having to deal with trying to protect what brought them all there to begin with.

I hope they can mitigate the damage that profiteering is bringing. Those were some magical times.

I saw the same thing happen to the East Cape and San Jose del Cabo in the 80's, 90's and early 2,000's to the point that I had trouble finding my way out to east cape road in the early 2010's. From a population of 30,000 to a quarter of a million fifteen years ago was not helpful.

I hope the developer greed can be moderated for Todos and Pescadero but I suspect that may be already history. I hope it is not hopeless.

About all anyone can do is to have their own sanctuary to keep the outside world at bay. I hope that works for my dear friends still there. I will forever be grateful for their friendships when we all were living in such simple and relatively uncomplicated times.

The water issue should be paramount and it is not. Keep draining those precious aquifers for the $. Gawd, the local water was sooo good and safe to drink back then. I hope it still is.

Dreams of the past are worth remembering. So are the treasured friends I still value to this day for the times we shared.

One of my first visits around 75 or so, I got in late at night and the only restaurant I could find still open on the highway in Pescadero served me the fish tacos I ordered straight of a can of sardines.

Why that still triggers my memory banks is because I laughed at the moment and knew this would be a memory that would be with me for all my days. I know I ate there again a number of times and always got fresh fish. There were very few choices in those days.

Best wishes to my old, make that older friends, and hope they have made their own sanctuaries to get them through their days in a special place like few others.

Peace love and fresh fish tacos to all Nomads.

I too was there then. We used to camp in the stand of palms set back from the beach. The surf was never crowded. Larga distancia calls and fish tacos at Pilars in TS. We'd fill up on water from the spigot in the park in TS.

By the 80s that changed and we moved on to Pastora. The whole area was done by the 90s. Now I sometimes drive the coast road from Conejo and don't stop in TS at all except to air up.

Baja is still kinda fun but very limited now.

[Edited on 3-24-2024 by chippy]

watizname - 3-26-2024 at 06:30 AM

----still 'kinda' fun------Pretty much says it all. Like going to Disneyland when you're 75.

Lee - 3-26-2024 at 01:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Biznaga

..... from the March Gringo Gazette:

"Looks like Todos Santos is in the middle of a bit of a tiff with the La Paz government over some pretty ambitious urban planning. The latest proposal from the city planners is stirring up more than just the dust in this tranquil town. They’re talking about ballooning the population from a cozy 12,000 to a whopping 150,000 in just a decade. And get this – they’re considering allowing buildings to reach the sky with 4-5 stories, all while the town’s still scratching its head over basics like sewage, water, and power.

https://gringogazette.com/2024/03/defend-todos-santos-moveme...

Todos is the red-headed stepchild of La Paz. Corruption flows from the top down. Protests seem to have little effect on how things are playing out. LP knows homes are being built on the dunes.

Gill nets are illegal in Baja. Nets are strung from the North point of Pedrito South to El Gavilan. Saguero, cardon, cholla land scraped by dozers at midnight -- nothing is done to stop the pillage. Not my country. Just keep letting go of reality.

pauldavidmena - 3-26-2024 at 03:29 PM

In the meantime the beat goes on.

mtgoat666 - 3-26-2024 at 04:48 PM

In the meantime the beat goes on.

Large resorts by mega coporations, designed by corporate architects as faux mexican pueblos, so guests can experience “authentic” mexico :lol:

Sad that the sheeple flock to the faux eco faux pueblo resorts,… i guess they just dont know better. Perhaps they would care if they were informed?

Support small, local biz, not mega chains.

Lee - 3-26-2024 at 08:30 PM

In the meantime the beat goes on.

Looks like your neck of the woods, Paul. El Gavilan.

$660 x $1,500 night. 103 rooms. Speechless.

surabi - 3-26-2024 at 11:05 PM

"Eco resort". Gag me. I can just imagine the kind of carbon footprint people who pay $1500/night have, while they virtue signal aboit how ecologically aware they are.

pauldavidmena - 3-27-2024 at 05:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

In the meantime the beat goes on.

Looks like your neck of the woods, Paul. El Gavilan.

$660 x $1,500 night. 103 rooms. Speechless.

Last February we stayed at a place in El Gavilán that was dwarfed by some of the McMexican Mansions nearby. 1 BR, 1.5 Bath, single floor with a nice kitchen and right on the water. House had its own waste water processing unit that watered the plants with grey water. Quite a bit less per night than the "eco resort" getting ready to open up on April Fool's Day. I want to go back before some billionaire makes the owner an offer he can't refuse.

pacificobob - 3-27-2024 at 11:43 AM

The hyperinflation of local real estate has me chuckling at those who's council to rent/never buy in Mexico turned out to be way wrong. Likely driven by fear of things they didn't understand.

surabi - 3-27-2024 at 12:38 PM

Years ago when I sold my house in Canada and had some money to invest for the first time in my life, I asked a good friend of mine, who had just gotten a substantial inheritence, if she wanted to go in with me on buying a piece of property that was just above my lot here in Mexico.

It was raw land that was subdividable into 4 lots, and the real estate market was booming here. The guy who owned it was American, I knew him well, and he was super savvy about making sure all paperwork was in order, every i dotted and every t crossed. He had lived here for a long time, knew all about family members coming out of the woodwork claiming the land was theirs, etc.

My friend asked her Canadian financial advisor about investing in this and he laughed dismissively. Said he knew some guys who lost all their money "buying" some land in Baja, and she'd be a fool to even consider it.

That land was bought by another Anerican who subdivided it, built a house for himself on one lot, built another house to sell on the second, sold the remaining two, and doubled his money within 2 years.

pacificobob - 3-27-2024 at 12:43 PM

It's common to see 10x value increases here over the last 20 years.

Lee - 3-27-2024 at 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

The hyperinflation of local real estate has me chuckling at those who's council to rent/never buy in Mexico turned out to be way wrong. Likely driven by fear of things they didn't understand.

Haven't heard this before. Think it would depend on how long someone was planning to live in MX.

20 years ago, I saw a plat map of Cerritos subdivided into thousands of parcels. Titles weren't in but the ejido were on it.

. Buyers were lining up to get their piece of paradise.

aburruss - 3-27-2024 at 07:25 PM

Even the environmental impact studies are crazy expensive. In order to build on a lot in BCS, that has almost NO native vegetation on any impacted area... we got a quote for almost $300,000 MXN. I can't stand to pay that, but I also know that the cost will only increase.

pauldavidmena - 6-15-2024 at 07:00 AM

Wind Horse Beach, advertised in the Baja Western Onion, boasts "residential beachfront lots."

Not too surprisingly, one of these properties is available for rent between June 15 and September 30, no doubt when the snowbird owner is NOB.

Lee - 6-15-2024 at 08:29 AM

Wind Horse Beach, advertised in the Baja Western Onion, boasts "residential beachfront lots."

Not too surprisingly, one of these properties is available for rent between June 15 and September 30, no doubt when the snowbird owner is NOB.

North or South of Pastora? Too far from town. Hate that road.

oxxo - 6-15-2024 at 09:03 AM

reminds me of what I learned in Los Angeles:
An environmentalist is someone who built last year.

Even though this post is 3 months old, it is still as nonsensical now as it was then. The poster obviously doesn't know any environmentalists!

After 20 years of owning property in the Los Cabos area, I have put my property for sale and getting out as far as being a fideicomiso owner. And I do remember what a treasure Todos Santos was 20 years ago.

The reasons are numerous but in a sort of prioritized listing as follows:

- My health insurance is only valid in the US and only valid for "emergencies" in Mexico. As I age up, new health issues seem to crop up on a more regular basis and I need to be closer to my regular doctors.
- It is difficult to get my medications to Mexico on a dependable basis. I do not trust Mexican prescriptions from China.
- I am getting older and don't have as much stamina and interest in maintaining a residence in Mexico (which can be a full time job if you do everything yourself).
- Most of my friends from 20 years ago, both Mexican and expat, have either died, abandoned their life in Mexico, or moved to other distant Mexican locations. Nobody's home anymore.
- Baja California is experiencing tremendous growth by Mexicans moving to Baja for available working options (the place is booming) and/or escaping cartel gang violence AND the gentrification of Baja by immigration of expatriates from the US and Canada who are looking for a retirement paradise on the cheap (sound familiar?) Local Baja governments are not keeping up with the commensurate need for expanded infrastructure. Roads, electricity, water, sewage are becoming critical issues in my area and it appears that little is being done about it. It is becoming VERY crowded year round.
- It is getting VERY expensive to live in the Los Cabos area. According to the G.G., Los Cabos is now the most expensive place to live in Mexico. People who are moving in, both nationals and expats, seem to have more money to spend on "luxuries" (USD $100 for dinner at a hotel on the beach? no problema) and that mindset is foreign to me compared to 20 years ago.
- More and more Mexicans from D.F. and Guadalajara are moving in. I do not enjoy the type of attitude they bring as opposed to the local Choyero attitude I first encountered here.
- Although cartel violence is not visible in Los Cabos, the Sinaloa gang has a large invisible presence here and they are paid off by the local governments, hotel industry, and fishing industry, among others. All it will take is one incident of major violence and the local economy will start to collapse like it did in Acapulco and other places in Mexico.

It is time for me to get out, while the getting is good. I will still visit Baja in the future but it will probably be limited to one week trips from Southern California to the Ensenada, Tecate, San Filipe areas in my BEV. AND I WILL STILL BE PROUD TO CALL MYSELF AN ENVIRONMENTALIST, not perfect, but always trying to do better.

Lee - 6-15-2024 at 08:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo

reminds me of what I learned in Los Angeles:
An environmentalist is someone who built last year.

Wow. Go for it hombre. Safe travels and success where you land. :bounce:

oxxo - 6-15-2024 at 09:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Safe travels and success where you land. :bounce:

@Lee, gracias amigo. "Wherever I am, I'm there."

pauldavidmena - 6-16-2024 at 08:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee