This was a major expedition from the colony at San Bruno (15 miles north of Loreto) to the opposite coast. Ron Ives made a map if the route in 1960
and it appears in the Dawson Volume #16 which is the Admiral Atondo diary, translated by Dr. Michael Mathes.
Unfortunately, the map is not perfect, doesn't include all the overnight stops, but does give an idea of where the 50+ men, horses, mules, and gifts
for the Natives traveled.
Love this kind of stuff. 4x4abc - 4-4-2024 at 08:16 AM
well, Michael Mathes himself states that una Legua - 1 league - is 4.2 km (2.635 mi)
however none of the distances in this report compute with that value
seems like Atondo used a different definition for his logDavid K - 4-4-2024 at 08:47 AM
well, Michael Mathes himself states that una Legua - 1 league - is 4.2 km (2.635 mi)
however none of the distances in this report compute with that value
seems like Atondo used a different definition for his log
A true or original league was the distance Roman legions marched in one hour. Obviously not a precise measurement! In Spanish times, a distance
traveled in one hour.
Admiral Atondo and the 50 + members of this expedition were not traveling on cleared roads, so the distance covered was minimal per hour on most days.
My belief is that his leagues were hours of travel and not any kind of real distance unit.
This definition of a Mexican league by Wiki is pretty much spot on: In the Mexican countryside the league is still commonly used in the original sense of the distance a person can walk in an hour. So a
league along a good road on level ground is longer than a league on a difficult path over rough ground..4x4abc - 4-4-2024 at 09:12 AM
the Ives map shows a location S. Nicolas S-E of Comondu
where is that mentioned and what is it?David K - 4-4-2024 at 02:46 PM
San Nicolas was a Native rancheria visited previously by Padre Kino on a earlier expedition. Admiral Atondo does not mention it in the diary that I
read.
Perhaps I can find when Kino named that Cochimí village and report on it for you, from Bolton's book on Kino's life?
[Edited on 4-4-2024 by David K]4x4abc - 4-4-2024 at 03:05 PM
please, David, do that.
would love to find out where that is. 4x4abc - 4-4-2024 at 10:27 PM
here we go
did "my own research"
Santa Maria is on the west side of the valley
one of the few places with abundant water
called Rancho Naocojoa - Nebocojol according to Atondo
none of the canyons on the east side have water
the next stopping point, San Gabriel, is a nameless Rancho with water
no other place on the way north to Bombedor has water
26°20'27.13"N, 111°34'32.27"W
Rancho Bombedor has ample water, but it wasn't a stopping point
the presence of date palms indicates later Jesuit use
the work camp at the foot of Cuesta Trabajosa is a Ranchito today
it is one of the easiest passes over Sierra La Giganta
it has a well established Camino Real section
all other camps fall into place.
a thought about Santa Maria
it could be that the group attempted to cross over Sierra La Giganta at that point
plus it has a lot of water
a number of Indian trails cross here and Camino Real is visible
however, with so many animals in the expedition it is a bit steep
Cuesta Trabajosa is a much simpler choice
here are the known water sources in the area
[Edited on 4-5-2024 by 4x4abc]bajarickster - 4-5-2024 at 08:40 AM
Excellent Harald, thanksDavid K - 4-5-2024 at 04:25 PM
Harald, I love your route!
Mine was based on some assumptions made by Ives and Mathes.
Can you email me your Google Earth file for this? My interest in this was to help a friend who wants to retrace the route on horseback or muleback.
Thanks
Update: I have made an edit update on my page for the Dec. 15, Santa María location.
Your close up sat map is twisted off true north, so it was a bit of a chore to match on my sat image... but it looks like we are nearly using the same
arroyos... On this:
"the work camp at the foot of Cuesta Trabajosa is a Ranchito today
it is one of the easiest passes over Sierra La Giganta"
What is the GPS for that ranchito and Cuesta Trabajosa?
Thank you.
please, David, do that.
would love to find out where that is.
In December of 1683 (a year before the famous expedition to the Pacific) Kino was exploring:
3 leagues from San Bruno to San Isidro [Londó] + 3 more leagues to the village of San Pablo and they continued north (from San Isidro [Londó])
seeking an opening in the sierra (on the west).
In 'more than 6 leagues' they arrived at a 'new river' they named Santo Tomás (known to the Natives as Bunmedejol), now Bombedor. "A true California
stream, it sometimes flowed."
12 leagues that day.
The next morning, they turned west, "ascending always along the sands and bed of the river Santo Tomás." At noon, they took a siesta at a grove of
immense willows "and a most beautiful spring of very good water which flowed in in great abundance about a half league from the road."
They were on the right trail (so says Bolton), it led through the sierra going almost due west, and climbing a slope "which was not very bad," they
reached the summit where there was a dry arroyo running westward. It was the headwaters of the Arroyo Comondú [Viejo].
They traveled 6 leagues downstream. At dark, they came upon some fires. To not alarm the Natives, they turned back for half a league to camp, without
water.
The next day, they retraced their steps to meet the villagers and present them with gifts. Their chief was given the name 'Nicolas' by Padre Kino and
his village, San Nicolas. The place was near Arroyo Comondú [Viejo].David K - 4-6-2024 at 04:03 PM
Thanks to Harald (4x4abc), we now have a better route map for Dec. 15-19.
Their Santa María spring has now been correctly located, on the west side of the valley, which makes more sense.
The next night was at a place they named San Gabriel. Dr. Mathes believed that to be Rancho Santa Rosa. However, Harald places it further north, at La
Luz.
Finally, the revised route joins the envisioned one at Bombedor (they named San Marcos). Instead of heading west, Harald has the route go southwest to
the mountain where we both agree the expedition climbed up and over.
The maps, the distance, and comments now match the new data. See them at www.vivabaja.com/Atondo-Kino4x4abc - 4-6-2024 at 08:20 PM
it could not have been Santa Rosa as it has no surface water
it has a well - that means it has been dug later.
San Gabriel has a small surface spring
it is not named on the INEGI data
but it is still active and the water source is well maintained
the pre pavement road to Loreto goes right through it
it could not have been Santa Rosa as it has no surface water
it has a well - that means it has been dug later.
San Gabriel has a small surface spring
it is not named on the INEGI data
but it is still active and the water source is well maintained
the pre pavement road to Loreto goes right through it
Thank you, Harald!
On the following map, the route is highlighted and important points or camps circled and named here:
Expedition name (Native name) = Modern name: Real de San Bruno (near gulf coast)
San Isidro = San Juan Bautista Londó
Santa María (Nebocojol) = Naocojoa
San Gabriel (Bunmedojol) = La Luz (on INEGI topo & Baja Almanac)
Santo Tomás (Cupemeyni) = Bombedor
Base of Mountain
Nuestra Señora de la O (Comondé) = La Presa
Interesting to see how a much more of a direct route to La Presa from Naocojoa was established (and shown above).
Perhaps when (or before) Visita Londó was attached to Mission Comondú (after it was founded in 1708) instead of Mission Loreto, which it was a part
of since 1699.
[Edited on 4-7-2024 by David K]4x4abc - 4-7-2024 at 12:28 PM
Mision Comondu was founded 1708
by then a more direct connection to Loreto was needed
the pass over Sierra La Giganta was at rancho El Cayuco
from Londo Rancho San Fransisco de Asis would likley be used
both using Cuesta San Francisco de Asis 26° 8'11.54"N, 111°34'49.22"W
over to Rancho Arroyo Hondo
then to San Nicolas
then Mision Comondu
[Edited on 4-7-2024 by 4x4abc]David K - 4-7-2024 at 06:03 PM
Not to go too far off topic, I only mentioned the short cut to Comondú Viejo/ La Presa from Naocojoa (and Londó), as it is shown as a trail on the
newer maps.
Harry Crosby shows the El Camino Real of 1708-1736 going north from the San Javier-San Miguel Camino Real... Once Comondú was moved south, then that
branch was not as important a road.
Map from 1994's 'Antigua California':
[Edited on 4-8-2024 by David K]4x4abc - 4-7-2024 at 07:32 PM
on one hand Crosby states that Camino Real is always a straight line and the he proposes a U-shape trail between Loreto and Comondu?David K - 4-8-2024 at 08:35 AM
on one hand Crosby states that Camino Real is always a straight line and the he proposes a U-shape trail between Loreto and Comondu?
Where possible, the Jesuits built in straight lines... but in California (Baja) that was rarely possible! Too many mountains, and canyons to cross!
The trail through Naocojoa from the Loreto visita de San Juan Londó seems more correct...?
The first sections of El Camino Real were Loreto to Mission San Francisco Javier (Rancho Viejo today) and Loreto north to Visita San Juan Bautista de
Londó, both in 1699. Londó was called a 'mission' in letters for the first years, but as it never received an endowment or its own priest, it was
never a mission. The Jesuits were really pumping their California progress, seeking more benefactors.
Ligüí and Mulegé were the next two missions, both in 1705.
San Miguel was a visita of San Javier before becoming a visita of Comondú in 1736. That was the year that Mission San José de Comondú moved south
to its visita, named San Ignacio... just 4 kms from San Miguel. Thus, for logical reasons, Visita San Miguel (de San Javier) became San Miguel de
Comondú.
Map to assist in visualizing the relationships between Loreto, Londó, San Javier, Comondú Viejo (1708-1736), San Miguel and San José de Comondú
(1736+):
[Edited on 4-8-2024 by David K]4x4abc - 4-8-2024 at 06:34 PM
worked for several hours on those east passes yesterday
then the power went out
and Google Earth does not have autosave
the width of the trails indicate their importance or low usage
with few humans in the area these trails have seen little use since the 1700's
I'll give it another try tomorrow
David K - 4-9-2024 at 07:02 AM
How terrible! Sorry for the loss of your work, Harald!
