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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3778
Registered: 2-9-2004
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" the current reality is old storefronts with newspaper over the window, and bedrolls on the floor in ultra high density "housing." No showers, no
furniture. "
"there is no visible evidence of any new "ecoscapes" or "sustainability." There are currently no public plans for sewage, and plans for water keep
changing. No sign of any development of "sustainable" electric power. "
"Hundreds of newly arrived single young men from the mainland are here for work at Loreto Bay. Crime has skyrocketed, with at least 12 break-ins at
Nopolo in June alone."
"Currently the city's water is shut off for about 24 hours each week. Brown-outs have been a daily occurance since the new development started (almost
two years ago), and the current sewage system is at optimum operating capacity."
TOLDJASO. and this is only the beginning.
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PovertyBay
Newbie
Posts: 17
Registered: 7-22-2005
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A follow-on question from a newbie. Are there ownership opportunities for those not interested in the extremes (either high-profile compounds for
expatriate Canadians or primitive outposts with no power?) If not in Loreto, then where in Baja would a middle-of-the-road gringo find a modest but
accessible home and the opportunity to come to know the unspoiled Baja?
I'd reveal more about my background, but then you'd only learn that I'm a Canadian, living in the US, who can't yet speak Spanish. I'm working
diligently to overcome each of those shortcomings. Can you provide some advice for the handicapped?
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
Don can you U2U me?
I'm concerned about everything Don is saying as I'm a full time resident with a family. We're staying in Loreto and will have to live with whatever
the municipio dishes out, but I'm concerned. The housing for the newly migrated workers and their lining the streets concerns me. I send off boats
early in the morning (5 - 6:30am) and I see the guys, looking pretty rough all over town waiting for the bus to take them to the worksite. I worry
about the young girls who need to walk by them to school during the same hours. They also hang out in front of my shop, as its also a bus stop, and
sometimes I need to get in and out in the early morning past them. So far they've been very nice, but I worry about it still as usually I'm by
myself.
The break-ins are escalating but they're not always the result of the newcomers, they are also a result of locals some of whom are well known by the
authorities and continue to be set free to repeat the crime. The methanphetamine problem is huge here and this chit drug the major reason for these
break-ins.
Loeto's problems with having enough water, power and sewer not to mention firefighting, medical and police services are increasing. Currently the
city's water is shut off for about 24 hours each week. Brown-outs have been a daily occurance since the new development started (almost two years
ago), and the current sewage system is at optimum operating capacity.
Loreto is one of the noisiest places I've ever experienced. The people here love noise or maybe they don't understand that its unnecessary and
invasive-, driving megaphones announcing things so loud and distortedly that you can barely make out what they're saying in the first place, schools
that have directors barking orders to the children all day long, the malecon and the car stereos- (during Easter Week they actually have the "loudest
car stereo contest"), roosters and barking dogs everywhere, neighbors who have no regard for the peace of others blairing their music day and night.
(I live outside of town and off the grid, so the lack of electricity has kept it quite up there, thank goodness.)
Despite these troubles I love living here for the beauty around us and for the fact that its a safe community for my small children. The education
system here leaves something to be desierd but I will supplement with home schooling for my little ones.
I won't get into the work ethic of the locals, but its a big drawback.
Suerte |
and they are just getting started.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Hey, I thought I told ya so.....
These threads say it all:
Canadians in Loreto
Grad study
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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I am really sorry that those of us who criticized Loreto Bay, questioned their practices, and were skeptical of their promises were right. I would
like to have been proven wrong.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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I wonder what happened to the 1,000,000.00 dollars that they donated to the town? it seems like a little bit of that spent in a few of the right places would take car of some of these problems.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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I wonder where JZ is?
And Cinco, what's your take on all this?
Unfortunately, I have seen this crap happen in too many places. I feel bad for those that get suckered in, unless of course they were previously
warned to be careful.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Sitting here at my PC,looking at the Loreto Bay project taking shape. See hundreds of workers,yet the progress is hardly noticable. Still only one
unit completed,and at this pace,the first phase will take years. And already they are talking about clearing the land towards the Whale's Inn and
start selling it in October. Been here for 13 years and it has been nice and peaceful. Seems that's coming to an end. Also looks like beach access
will only be for walking folks,since the most southerly house is almost to the Hotel wall. And to say nothing about the DUST!!!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Follow-ups...
Loreto Bay's million $$$ for Loreto..they recently gave the "down payment" of a million dollar donation for clinic/hospital expansion. The rest is
pledged. Cynics and critics say these facilities will be high fee and tailored for foreigners, not Loretanos or mainlanders.
Local pronunciation of "Loreto Bay" is "Loreto Buy." Some locals chuckle at the pun. 
Lots in town: Prices have risen dramatically. Numerous stories go like this: a certain real estate business gets listings, and bases the sale price on
the "old" prices. In other words, you agree to sell your lot to ****** Realty for 120,000 pesos. Then the property is listed for $60,000 US dollars.
Folks from California think that's reasonable...SOLD! The real estate agent pockets the difference-the poor seller gets 120,000 pesos.
OR...a lot on our block just sold for $20,000 US. Within days a realtor's For Sale sign went up. It's listed at $60,000.
So, a realtor here may not get a buyer the best price; their involvement may cost buyers big bucks with no benefits to the original sellers. If
buying, try to negotiate a sale that limits the realtor cut to a reasonable percentage of the seller's cut.
The recent La Region local newspaper had articles on Loreto Bay workers. It included allegations of lower than promised paychecks, worse than promised
housing, workers walking off the job and asking to be sent back to the mainland, and complaints of the behavior of workers housed in Colonia Zaragosa.
These stories are the same as stories related to us weeks ago by a local friend who was employed at Loreto Bay.
Also there was a story of a local realtor warning of real estate swindles that has a certain irony if one hears local rumors. And other local friends
we know are losing their apartment, and can't find new housing except way in the outskirts, and they have no car. Bummer. Tight housing in Centro.
But we came here from Kalispell Montana, now bloated by tourist/vacation related development, and we've seen it all before, and before that even, and
sometimes grow tired of playing Cassandra. They NEVER listen and local authorities ALWAYS base decisions on the tales of jobs and prosperity for the
average citizen. But the good news is that some of the local big shots will make a killing. 
And no, sorry I don't do U2U's, and am going offline for a while in a couple of days. Heading north to the USA, got a new grandchild I haven't seen
yet, stuff to do, etc etc. And I suspect when I get back in a few months thre will be some changes.
I just hope Loreto isn't eaten by giant squid. 
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SLO-Lair
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered: 8-3-2005
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I'm in the process of purchasing a property in Loreto via a Mexican corporation rather than a fideicomiso. I've hired a local attorney, Alfredo
Cristo, to set up the corporation and arrange the purchase with the local notaria publica. I'll soon be depositing the purchase money into his trust
account. My question is, has anyone dealt with Lic. Cristo? If so what was your impression?
I've seen a lot of advice posted about buying title insurance for property purchases in Baja but am of the impression that the U.S. title companies
doing business in MX only sell title insurance in a few areas such as Los Cabos. For instance the Loreto Bay project offers it but I'm told by Sr.
Cristo that it is not available in Loreto proper. More importantly, I've been told that what the title insurance companies sell is more like a
preliminary title report than actual dollar-for-dollar insurance against real estate fraud.
Anyone out there have any personal experience or knowledge that might enlighten me?
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SLO-Lair
I'm in the process of purchasing a property in Loreto via a Mexican corporation rather than a fideicomiso. I've hired a local attorney, Alfredo
Cristo, to set up the corporation and arrange the purchase with the local notaria publica. I'll soon be depositing the purchase money into his trust
account. |
First, I would want to inquire as to the nature of the trust account. How is it set up, who is the trustee?
Then, be aware that it is not legal to use a corporation to shelter property used as a residence.
| Quote: | Originally posted by SLO-Lair
I've seen a lot of advice posted about buying title insurance for property purchases in Baja but am of the impression that the U.S. title companies
doing business in MX only sell title insurance in a few areas such as Los Cabos. For instance the Loreto Bay project offers it but I'm told by Sr.
Cristo that it is not available in Loreto proper. More importantly, I've been told that what the title insurance companies sell is more like a
preliminary title report than actual dollar-for-dollar insurance against real estate fraud. |
Don't rely on Sr. Cristo. Ask the title companies if they will write.
Title insurance is what it is. It will insure against known chain of title, period.
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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I'm told that Loreto Bay "stepped up to the plate" and arranged for Loreto Municipal to establish a police office in the ground floor of their offices
in Nopolo, and that two police vehicles are seen patroling 24/7 now. I'm not sure the number of break ins in Nopolo are reported correctly. I have
friends who live down there year round in Nopolo and they would have said something about it to me if it were that bad. Not to say it isn't
happening. Loreto/Nopolo are great for expounding rumors from the Cafe Ole "morning crowd". I own a home in Nopolo, and amazing how the "non
homeowners" are more concerned about the water & electricity and sewer than we are. But then again, I didn't grow up in southern California where
apparantly that was or is a problem with the huge growth they are experiencing.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3778
Registered: 2-9-2004
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... I didn't grow up in southern California where apparantly that was or is a problem with the huge growth they are experiencing."
In the first place, that is not the case, and secondly, doesn't have anything to do with an objective perspective we "non homeowners" have toward LB
and its impact. And the actions of LB, arranging for a localized police station in the midst of their development, is obviously self-serving.
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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I hope LB is paying the municipality for the extra police protection...
I know a woman in Loreto whose husband is a cop...she always said it was the easiest job that you could have because there was no crime to speak of.
Too bad that seems to have changed.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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"I own a home in Nopolo, and amazing how the "non homeowners" are more concerned about the water & electricity and sewer than we
are."
I think that it's not so much concern about water and power Phil, although with all those new neighbors you are about to have, that will definitely be
an issue. It's more about what's going to happen to a once pristine area, all of the wonderful people who used to live in that area, what's going to
happen to the Sea of Cortez because of all the new boats, and how this kind of development will affect the entire peninsula.
Did you know Loreto Bay was going to happen when you bought your house in Nopolo?
Personally, I have a feeling that those who lived there before the LB project will be selling their homes because of the wonderful changes that happen
when developers strike!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Other places too will feel the pressure.
The project is too close to the mountains and repercussions will reverberate up there too I 'm afraid.
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SLO-Lair
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered: 8-3-2005
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Here is what Stewart Title in Mexico City said when asked about the availabilty of title insurance in Loreto.
They insure property transactions all over Baja and charge $700 per $100,000 of purchase price. Additionally, they charge up to $1,500 to do the
title search. That price is lower if the property in question is located in an area where they have done other work, if not expect the higher price.
They also said that the title insurance they offer in MX gives the same type of coverage as title insurance they sell in the U.S.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3778
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Re: the downpayment for the medical facility - it wasn't a million, it was $150,000. The origins of the expected balance is nebulous -- including
from the LB homeowners and donations! That leaves about $700,000 left to be granted to the town of Loreto. Where's the money?
6/21/05
Loreto Bay, Baja California Sur, Mexico - Loreto Bay Company today announced their pledge to raise $800,000 to fund construction of a new medical
facility for the historic town of Loreto.
Loreto Bay Company executives presented a check for $150,000 today, representing the first installment of the pledge. The presentation was part of a
community celebration, which took place in the town square, near Loreto?s famed mission, Our Lady of Loreto. The yet-to-be named facility will be a
comprehensive medical center capable of servicing the growing healthcare needs of the entire Loreto community.
The donation, which is to be paid in installments over the next five years, will come from a variety of sources, including Loreto Bay Company, friends
of the company, Loreto Bay home owners, and foundations, including the Loreto Bay Foundation, a non-profit organization established by the company to
serve the economic and social needs of the historic town of Loreto. Individuals may participate by donating everything from a wing of the facility to
medical equipment, to fixtures. To recognize donors? generosity, Loreto Bay Company will construct a Healing Garden, which will feature hand painted
tiles, pavers, fountains, benches and landscaping, which may be presented in honor or memory of a love one. Tasteful plaques will recognize these
donations.
"We've always placed an emphasis on being a good neighbor and Loreto has been a good neighbor to us," said James Grogan, president and CEO of the
Loreto Bay Company. "We are very pleased to take the lead in developing such an important resource for the people of Loreto. Investing in the
healthcare system is evidence of our belief that nothing is more valuable to the community than the well-being of its current and future residents."
Loreto Bay has partnered with FONATUR, Mexico?s tourism development agency, to develop The Villages of Loreto Bay, an authentic Mexican seaside
community in Baja California Sur. In the early stages of its partnership, the Loreto Bay Company pledged to donate one percent of home sales back to
the community as a way to help foster economic and social growth in the Loreto area.
Having recently exceeded $140 million in residential real estate sales, the Loreto Bay Company will thus generate, as sales close, $1.4 million to the
Loreto Bay Foundation to support local projects in education, extracurricular activities, business development, medical services, environmental
protection, and affordable housing. With bylaws aimed at conserving Loreto?s natural beauty and protecting the nearby national marine park, the Loreto
Bay Foundation?s principles are aligned with the development of The Villages of Loreto Bay. Development practices include programs for sustainable
energy, water renewal and land stewardship, as well as creating economic opportunities through new jobs and local businesses. Through a host
agreement, tax-deductible donations to the Loreto Bay Foundation may be made to The Ocean Foundation (www.oceanfdn.org), a non-profit organization. Donors should note that the contribution is for the Loreto Bay medical facility.
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
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Donation to Loreto Bay Foundation??? now thats funny.
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