shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13033
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Spanish Immersion in Asuncion
Hola, Nomads...This is Zoe on Shari's setting. I've been in Asuncion since Saturday and the time has been filled with wonderful experiences. I've met
many people with whom to practice my newly acquired Spanish, and believe it or not, they understand me. Shari is a great teacher, and what I'm
learning is NOT what they teach you in school. It's very practical and easy to apply, and we keep repeating it during the day so it sticks. Perhaps
the best part is to be introduced to the many cultural differences between Americans and Mexicans (and between Americans and Canadians!). Juan,
Shari's husband, is also a gracious and welcoming host. Every evening we have visitors and many stories to laugh over.
After we ate the lobster and yellowtail, we moved on to the pork loin (over a period of days, of course). Right now we are drinking pitahaya
margaritas...que sabroso! Tomorow it is crab cakes. Did I mention that we are eating very well? We've been surf swimming, out in the panga to see the
lobos, wandering the village and meeting the neighbors and Juan's many relatives. Tonight we are going to San Roque (it's Halloween) to meet the
spirits. The end of my visit is nearing, but I asssure you, I will be back. This has been a wonderful trip and I urge anyone who is interested to
spend the time with Shari and Juan.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Just wonderful to hear!!!
So, the American/Canadian lessons mean you are going to be saying 'eh' after every sentence? Eh?
Good food, good location, good lessons, great people... Sounds like a Baja Thing!!!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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I can hardly wait!!
Great Pic. Are those spinners?
Iflyfish
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jorgie
Nomad
Posts: 430
Registered: 8-25-2006
Location: on another road,again
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Mood: on the road....again,again
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How do I sign up for the course and how long does it take ? I'll only be there for five months, will I be able to speak any spanish that will be
undestood by Mexican people ?
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13033
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Ya know some people just aren't cut out for grammar classes and for some it confuses them more...but you CAN learn by doing and just talking to
people, being around the language, asking questions and repetition....I have taught for many years and I get the best results teaching while having
fun...doing things YOU like to do...fishing, beachcombing, drinking margeritas, playing cards, cooking, eating, shopping....whatever...little by
little...no text books, no classroom, just daily stuff...fun learning really works. It does take time...learning a language is a long term process but
you won't learn if you don't start....a little goes a LONG way in Mexico especially if you learn the essentials...how to be polite and the phrases
they use all the time here. Zoe was here only a few days and learned ALOT and she was very pleased with her visit and will post a trip report soon I'm
sure....they left today after we went to mass at the cemetery for Dia de los Muertos. I'll let her fill you in on the details. The nice thing about
Immersion with us is that we speak English too and you can rest from Spanish when you need to. What we do here is teach you what you want to learn
while you are on holiday and make sure you have FUN!
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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About the grammar thing...
Hi, it's Zoe again, this time writing from Zac's setting. We just arrived in San Diego, so this will be brief. I've studied Spanish and German in
school (albeit years ago), so have a pretty good grasp of grammar essentials. What I needed most was reminders, repitition and vocabulary. I knew more
than I thought I did, and a lot of stuff was resting in the memory dust, needing some polishing. Mostly I needed a push to jump start the memory...and
the positive results are enough to encourage me to go back to the grammar books on my own. I think the best part for me was the personalized approach
that can come when you are working one on one. Also, Shari is a very interesting woman, so I really wanted to hear what she had to say...in English or
in Spanish. Second on the list of good things about the immersion process was going out and meeting people with whom to practice. My experience was
that people were very patient and willing to let me struggle until I could get my thoughts across. And the smiles and responses were all I needed to
keep at it.
Some of you might be interested to know that Shari also teaches English to a group of women from the village. Sitting in on several of those classes
was very illuminating for me. Of course, I know English is a more difficult language than Spanish, but seeing beginners attempt to master the "th"
thing (Saca la lengua!) was quite interesting. Of couse, being part of the class also made it easier when we were in the village to follow up on
conversations with the women from the class.
I'll contribute more later after I get back to Northern CA and have some time to pull my thoughts together. In the meantime I give an unqualified
"Yes" to any of you who are wondering if this is a good way to learn the language. Go for it! Hasta luego, Zoe
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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Which language is harder to learn?
Lencho, I'm thinking in terms of learning a second language when I say that I think English is a harder language to learn. than Spanish. I think that
we are hardwired to acquire language (although this is definitely not my area of expertise). From my own expericce I can compare learning German with
learning Spanish. The Spanish was/is sooo much easier. I wonder if there are any Nomads out there who have learned both Spanish and English...Farasha,
mabe? Can you give us your experience?
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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I believe that English is easier to learn on a conversational basis while Spanish is easier to perfect. Some of the Chinese languages are reputed to
be the hardest to learn period.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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I would think that in Espanol where what you see is what you say, and that the way a word is spelled is always the way it is pronounced makes it a lot
easier. I may be lucky that my Spanish pronunciation came pretty easy for me. I have found some of my biggest difficulty in understanding my Mexican
friends speaking ESL is they have such a tuff tyme noing how to pronounse our goofi langwige if they have done much studying from books.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Summanus
Nomad
Posts: 481
Registered: 10-15-2006
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"He who does not know foreign languages does not know anything about his own." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe 1749-1834.
Now it is 2006. As so it goes......since the days of Babel.
The easiet language by far to learn is that of music.
Summanus....ancient Roman Nightly Thunder God. He liked refrieds too.
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
I wonder if there are any Nomads out there who have learned both Spanish and English...Farasha, mabe? Can you give us your experience?
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I grew up in Tijuana and was born in the late 50's, Direct, Dish, sattelite, cable and others did not exist, man had not yet been to the moon so I
waited till Saturday to watch cartoons on the San Diego chanels 8 and 10 was it and during the week Johnny Downs in San Diego or Sheriff John, Hobo
Kelly and others on the LAX channels. So when people ask were I learned english I say watching television, and I have no clue as to were I learned to
write because I have never taken an english class in my life. Now my children are totaly bilingual but that is because they speeck only english with
theire mom here @ home. Lencho is correct, kids learn anything with ease. When I went to school in La Paz, were I lived was the Hosteria del
Convento and there also lived 2 americanas Ann Eagan who taught conversational english and another lady Hanna Robison Walker AKA Anita Walker and she
would teach begginers and advanced, and she would have me come in to her classes and sit in so her students could hear me speeking and whe I was
finished she would have me say that I had learned English with Anita  . This would make a good story maybe on a radio show or something.
saludos
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: |
Which came first?
I studied German for 5 years through high school. I later attacked Spanish, and I suppose it was easier than German, but I'm pretty sure that was
because of acquisition mechanisms and strategies formed during the German studies rather than any inherent level of difficulty in the languages
themselves
Now I'd risk alleging that written Spanish is certainly easier than English or German because of the relative regularity in spelling
(if you don't include native Mexican words), but I consider that a separate issue.
--Larry |
Good point. Same with me...German first. Also, there was more incentive to learn Spanish because in California it was all around me, unlike German.
It's interesting to see how others here have picked up their language(s). And Summanus makes another good point about music being the easiest language
to learn...a universal language.
Oops...sorry I keep logging in as Bajaboy; I thought I was logged in as myself. Zac was a little annoyed that I was using his name for my own
thoughts...so just to clarify, this is Zoe speaking.
[Edited on 11-4-2006 by Bajaboy]
[Edited on 11-4-2006 by Bajaboy]
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13033
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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One very cool thing about spanish is that there are lots of different words and ways to say one thing so you can hear a few and choose which suits you
or which is easier to remember or pronounce..more choices. It is more forgiving as well for beginners...you can quickly learn some phrases which take
you a long way. Of course there are some basic grammar rules which are easy to grasp and don't have as many exceptions like english. It's pretty easy
and fun too so all of you bajamaniacs should make an effort to learn some basic spanish and felizidades to those who have done it!
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Lencho, I'm thinking in terms of learning a second language when I say that I think English is a harder language to learn. than Spanish. I think that
we are hardwired to acquire language (although this is definitely not my area of expertise). From my own expericce I can compare learning German with
learning Spanish. The Spanish was/is sooo much easier. I wonder if there are any Nomads out there who have learned both Spanish and English...Farasha,
mabe? Can you give us your experience? |
HM - my spanish is VERY little (mildly spoken), I'm better in understanding/reading it at this moment, then speaking it.
Thats the way I usually approach a new language.
BUT I'm quite easy with languages, always was, grew up in an multilingual environment ( native is german).
My second language is NOW english ( was different many years ago), then comes arabic and hebrew, which was most difficult - as those 2 languages ARE
indeed VERY similar, they have the same ROOTS. BUT are also SO different- and I ended up many times in the one or the other language, as what I had
started , that was fun for many people around me in the near and middle east.
NOW if I look at spanish - I think it is easier for me because I speak ENGLISH - MANY words have also the same roots - and it's easier to shift from
english to spanish for me, then from GERMAN to Spanish!
That's why I binned my german /spanish material, and take a english /spanish version instead.
ALL CLEAR??
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kellychapman
Nomad
Posts: 246
Registered: 9-19-2006
Location: Loreto CBS
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Mood: heavenly
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I hate to admit that I am having a horrible time learning the language and it is very frustrating. What is strange is that Spanish was my first
language until the age of 6 due to living in El Paso and raised by a wonderful woman named Juana who did not speak english. I am going to go to
spanish classes and learn this beautiful language no matter how much work it is to do. What I like so much is the way you can use your hands to
express what you are saying....god I love the spanish language so much due to the passion behind it.....it is so exciting...
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Janice
Junior Nomad
Posts: 78
Registered: 10-19-2003
Location: Owens Valley/Alpine - California
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Ranger Rich has been trying to talk me into heading out that direction for quite awhile now...keep talking it up and he may get me out there this
trip!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Some thoughts about language acquisition.
The best time to learn language is between the ages of three and five. At that age, a child is able to learn multiple languages at the same time.
Later a "pruning" of neurons occurs and it becomes more difficult.
Some languages like Chinese are monosyllabic, polyphonic, that is one character can mean many things when pronounced differently. Inflection is what
makes the difference. I have eaten Vietnamese Pho for thirty years and cannot to this day pronounce it. Once a young waitress told me in a very
embarrassed tone that I had ordered a female body part! I was in stitches! Even with much prodding, she refused to tell which part I had ordered! At a
certain age in childhood, we lose the capacity to pronounce certain sounds essential to the Chinese and other Asian monosyllabic, polyphonic
languages. Like the Japanese who have no R. Lealy!
German is agglutinative, that is concepts are expressed by putting words together so that one word may express a complex concept.
Barindenbaddenratsenfratzer! I just made that word up, but you get the point.
Spanish is a Romance Language and is Latin based. Latin is a rather simple language to learn, unless one declines to decline.
I learned my rudimentary Spanish from Braceros when I was a kid picking fruit in California and from children playing baseball in Mexico. Of course,
my vocabulary has increased over the years, but my grammar is TERRIBLE. For common use, getting food, fuel, water, and shelter, not to mention beer,
simple phrase structure is easy to acquire. "Por favor", "Donde es..........?" I simply string words together. In Mexico of course, Spanish is a
second language for many native people. Mexico has fifty-six distinct language groups only outstripped by India who has fifty-eight. These distinct
languages also reflect different cultures, which is part of why Mexico is such a rich country in terms of culture. There are of course also regional
dialects, i.e. in Puebla the Spanish sounds like singing. Pueblanos could not understand my “border Spanish” and I had a difficult time understanding
theirs, though I loved listening to it. I also have difficulty understanding many people from the Deep South of the US or from the Inner City of
Oakland. Rap escapes me completely.
Eighty percent of human communication is non verbal. The upturned palm, raised eyebrow with raised shoulders says "I don't know" in any language.
Often few words are needed to express our needs. I love to watch people sign. Now there you can really see the power of non verbal communication.
English is a very difficult language to learn because it has many roots. It has acquired words from Anglo/Saxon, German, Slavic and Romance Languages.
The grammar is complex.
We first learn language by reception then comes production. Thus, immersion programs are very helpful in learning a language and may actually be the
best way to do so. All children learn by immersion. One must first listen, and then one will produce. Patience, patience, patience. We all are
acquiring knowledge and language at different paces and levels. We understand others to varying degrees of significance. A child can understand bits
and snatches of adult conversation, an adult who has limited IQ can participate in dialogue, though may have limited understanding of what is being
said.
What is important in another country, and particularly so in Mexico, is taking the time to TRY. Trying shows respect for the others culture. Norte
Americanos have disrespected Mexico for a very long time, taking their land and resources. Mexico is a conquered nation and still bears the scars of
this subjugation. Respect is fundamental to addressing this issue. Mario Paz elaborates on this issue in A Distant Neighbor, a great book.
One of the great pleasures of traveling in Mexico is learning new words and I try to do that each time I go there. These words are keys to greater
experience and an opportunity to engage with people who I normally would not interact with. I have found Mexicans to be incredibly helpful with my
bastardized Spanish and they will often listen patiently as I slaughter a perfectly good sentence before replying in impeccable English to my question
or comment. I have only been corrected once in Mexico, and that was in Mexico City, by a well-dressed stranger. I happened to be wearing a suit at the
time. He scolded me on my grammar telling me that a person of my station should have better grammar. I have solved this problem by not wearing a suit.
It’s sandals, shorts and Hawaiian shirts for me, unless I am in a more formal setting, which I now try to avoid.
Enjoy! Language is the way to learn the culture and to meet the people. I have enjoyed this dialogue.
Salud!
Iflyfish
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
When I went to school in La Paz, were I lived was the Hosteria del Convento |
Hey, where was/is that? I live near el Convento de las Adoratrices, same place?
Saludos-- Larry |
Hosteria del Convento (not a real convent, but maybe was once) is on Madero 85 and had passage to the back street Zaragoza, were you should still see
a plaque for Hansie that sais English with Anita, next to that was the Quinta Dorita were there is a plaque that sais it is the site that corresponds
to the first mission of our lady of La Paz.
saludos
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