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Big Al
Nomad
Posts: 184
Registered: 12-17-2002
Location: El Cajon
Member Is Offline
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Generalizing
JR,
Once again your anti-gringo generalizations are coming out, and I think you are preaching to the wrong crowd. Your impression of most Gringos is
flawed at best. I am now going to generalize a little. I think the people (Baja Fanatics) on this board respect Mexican laws more than most people
and even more than a lot of the Mexican nationals do. We are all, in this forum, fishermen who understand that we must protect the resource. We just
understand that we have little impact on the Sea's decline with our rod and reel. the Gringos that you are aming at don't monitor this board and are
partying in Cabo right now. They go fishing late because they are hung over and come in early because they are hammered again by noon. We on this
board, in general, eat what we catch, and we realize that if we don't keep too much we have a good excuse to go fishing again real soon.
Big Al
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Generalizations
"Once again your anti-gringo generalizations are coming out, and I think you are preaching to the wrong crowd. Your impression of most Gringos is
flawed at best."
Actually Al, I was trying to tone it down a notch. But, I live here. Most of you vacation here. I see what goes on regularly and I'm not making any
of this gringo stuff up because I like to.
I bring it up so that the ones that do idiotic things, and that is a lot of them, will perhaps at least think about these things. Prior to heaving
that Bud can over the side, or bringing back so much fish half of it rots.
I'm sure none of you like to hear what I have to say but sorry folks. I can't lie about it or pretend like it isn't happening.
As far as what I have to say having any effect on here, I have actually seen actions and been thanked for pointing some things out from many members
of this board.
But one things for sure, whether I peeed any of you off or not, you won't forget what has been discussed. 
Now, do your parts and help teach the others to do the same. It will make you feel good!
I'll be watching over your shoulder the next time a can or trash gets heaved or you catch more than your limit or allow anyone else to either.
You'll see.
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Baja Red
Junior Nomad
Posts: 80
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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To "ALL" Greedy fisherman
Jr...I agree with you on many points. "NO ONE" needs to catch 100 + or - dorado. My father in law and I were in Cabo a few years back and the dorado
were basically jumping in the boat. We "could" have caught "500" or em' They were everywhere. He explained to me (after we had caught 5 or 6 each
in a matter of about 1 hour) that we could sit here and catch them all day but he was not one the of greedy ones. We had about 6 people at camp to
feed so we figured we had plenty of fish to go around. We caught 4 or 5 more dorado to share with the locals and as part payment for fish cleaning.
The "fisherman" that like to go down and catch 100's of anything come from all races. I think that sometimes the excitement of being able to catch
so many fish shuts off there brains and before you know it they have a "great" fish story to tell there friends of how they caught "100" dorado...it
was awesome dude"! (even though they end up throwing a lot into the trash due to freezer burn) We just need to use common sense. The catch and
release program is good after you have caught your limit. If everyone would catch enough for dinner for a few nights of camping, give the locals some
and release the rest the Sea of Cortez and anywhere else will survive. Plus we need to stop the big fishing fleets with miles of nets from raping our
oceans. Baja Red
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Yep
Most of this (but not all of it!) went up to the mountain folks so I am guilty myself.
But I think you know what I mean.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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For the record...
It should be noted that the quote... "They caught over 100 dorado one day and went back out the next morning and doubled the count..." is from a
report on a fly fishing club's trip to Baja. I've met Mike and his group in Baja before and I'd bet they only took enough fish for dinner at the hotel
that night at best. They are catch and release guys for the most part and a far cry from the "meat fisherman" JR is speaking out against.
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Don Jorge
Senior Nomad
Posts: 638
Registered: 8-29-2003
Member Is Offline
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otro dos centavos
Ah, what the heck. Deal me in.
Dieing Sea of Cortez? What color they dieing it? LOL, just kiddin, I'm spellin challenged two. Geez JR wheres Skeet? He always has something to say
on this subject.
I remember a vivid scene from the 80's. Pangas rail to rail in the Bahia Concepion equipped with hookas. Those boys were from Sinaloa in their new
pangas with their new compressors and regulators, hundreds of them and they worked that seas floor wall to wall. Total rape. It will never be the
same. Even more vivid was the picture of the shiny pickup del ano, Stetson hatted, 20XXXXXXXX, phone in ear, parked at a turnout, giving his report
to el jefe, placas Sinaloa. Washing dinero. Whose fault, the gringos for buying the drugs? I don't know.
What happened to the grouper in Loreto which made Tabor infamous? Was it trawlers, gill nets, or the seiners? Perhaps it was it rod and reels and
spears? Or dynamite, the best way to catch mullet for sure.
I have seen this theme many times in the past on many different boards. It's either them, the commercial boys, or us, the "sportsmen" causing the
effect, it's never we whom be in this together.
Fuuny thing is, as pointed out, none of it means nada to a man trying to feed his family the only way he can.
I hope access to education becomes a reality for all of Mexico and America and we can learn to solve this problem so my children and your children can
have this same dialouge.
And where is Skeet?
Jorge
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Although it obviously isn't a problem
with this group, it most assuredly is for some others. These are the ones I am referring to.
And living down here, I see many idiotic things going on all the time. Mostly being done by gringos.
Honest!
Thus my rants on here to you guys..Get mad at me all you want but please, be conscious of the cumulative effect of litter, overfishing, etc. in this
not so big of a Sea.
We can all be part of the solution.
BUENA VISTA, MEXICO: Mark Rayor of the Vista Sea Sport dive service said water conditions at Cabo Pulmo were cooler and a little green, but sightings
included two whale shark, hammerhead shark, grouper, snapper, and huge amberjack. Rayor said his boat captain, Chuy Cota has received his vigilante
credential as part of the local Conanp program: ?Anybody who has been warned that they are breaking conservation laws on the East Cape and who
persists will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Conanp would like to walk softly, but if need be is ready to confiscate boats and deport
foreigners who have been made aware and continue to break the law.?
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3778
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
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"...none of it means nada to a man trying to feed his family the only way he can." And what about the proverbial tomorrow? When NOTHING is left?
(And that is precisely the situation in way too many spots - literally not enough to feed a family of osprey). I don't understand why there is any
opposition to what JR is saying. All he's talking about is personal responsibility and setting an example so as not to exacerbate the condition.
All of you profess your love for Baja California, but I see damn few of you willing to do anything to prevent its deterioration.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Yah, like he said!
Thanks Wilderone, I think the proverbial Huarache fit's quite a few on here which is why I direct it to here.
I just didn't want to say anything for fear of peeing someone off.
And, I send everyone I meet down here to this board if they are computer savvy. Everyone except my relatives that is! hahahaha
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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"Never Fear Skeeter is Here"
Gentlemen, Scholars, Fisherman and other Nuts.
The Fish are There!
It just maybe that some of the New type Gadgets do not tell you where the Fish are, as reported in the magazines with the Sexy Blonde holding up a
Fish!!!
I fell in Love with the Mar De Cortez so many years ago, just as JR fell in Love with the People of the Mountains.It is like having a Mistress, you
want to Love them all the time, and as you see someone else not appreciating you Love you sometimes become Angry and Defiant. If I am so allowed I
will relate some Experiences of my Love.
Yes there are all the things going on as all Posters discuss{Except the False Statements that the Sea Of Cortez is 90% Devastated}
First Fishing out of the Rancho Bueno Hotel with Ray Cannon's Boats, I observed 105 Marlin caught and release in one Day{Except several very Large
ones for Trophies}, that was in October of 1968.
Fishing out of Loreto and San Nicholas from 1968 to 1998 , yellowtail were caught from the Oeir at The Flying Sportsman by Children using a piece of
Rebar thrown into the yellowtail chasing the Sierra and Barracuuda.
The above action stopped when in 1976 the Fertlizer Boats from Topolabomba came over an neted all of the Sierra out of the Bays, therbycausing the
Yellowtail to move out and go Deep for Mackeral.
Some time in the late 70's the Mexican Govt. made a Deal with the Japanese to take only Bottom Fish out of the Sea of Cortez, I observed a Japanese
Boat at night using a 5 Ft diameter Tube sucking up all Fish.As they tried to leave they were caught and their Catch was sent to the Poor of Mexico
City. Japan was fined $75,000 and told never to come back.
Fishing with Alvaro Murillo for so many years I learned to respect his fishing as well as the Commercial Pangeros. All of the Fish we caught was
fileted and sold to Neighbors of Alvaro.
After the Road opened Alvaro's Father and other son would fish in the Waters North of San Nicholas for "Bargette" at 300 feet with Hand lines{Very
Hard Work} to be sold to a weekly Truck for transport to Ensenada and North.
I have seen as many as 90 Boats fishing and catching yellowtail off of all the close, favorite Places in and Around Loreto, until the Reserve came in,
the Military Boats started hassling the Fisherman, and the Americano Fisherman left, Along with Ed Tabor and others.
The Fish moved out to Deeper waters, Shrimpers were banned, Truckloads of yellowtail started going to La Paz, Hannjin came in an started taking the
supply of Squid, Local fisherman turned to nets and started fishing for Shark fins etc.
Yes it is not like it was 40 years ago, but it is still the Best fishing in the World, because there are Fisherman who now have learned that you can
not take a Ice Chest Full of Doroda Filets to the States with 100 % Success.
All you have to do to see the fish Life is "Go out away from the Shore, go to 15 to 20 miles the other side of Carmen, go to Catlana Island, go 40
miles South to the rock"Las Animas'. Take an old time Panga Capt. who does not need a GPS to find and see the Fish.
Instead of making several days of 'Fast Fishing" returning to the States, do some Quality time going further North, further Out, and Further south.
The Fish Changed many years ago when the Hoover Dam was built, when the Shrimpers took all the Shrimp in Places, the Sierra was depeleted, and the
Squid are taken, but my Beloved Sea of Cortez still comes back like an Ole Mistress, a little worn here and there but still the Best Fishing in my
World.
So Naysayers , Rave on, Blame all, listen to the Book learners, but if you really would like the Truth go out and spend some time and then make your
Point!!
Jr is doing just that by trying to show that the Mountain people are Good People, that all the People of the Sea are not Rapist or Dope Haulers,
Take the Chance and take a Shrimp Trap and drop it into the Bay of Loreto and count the Shrimp you Haul up!
Spend sometime with the Squid Fisherman and count the numbers coming back, sometimes in 3 year cycles, sometimes in 7 year cycles
Are all the Marlin Gone from the Cape?
Is that Grand Fishing Tourney that pays $500,000 Grand Prize still around?
Are ther any Million Dollar Boats left in Cabo?
Why do People go to Baja and the Sea of Cortez?Not just to Smoke Dope, Drink Booze, and take their Clothes off and run Naked on the Beach.
Adventure my Friends, Adventure!!
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust'
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cdloreto
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: 5-21-2004
Member Is Offline
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The dying sea
Whew! How do you top Skeets analogy! The sea of cortez is like a mistress. I'll just pick up where he left off. It's true. The Sea of Cotez is like a
mistress, but like a mistress she is often neglected and left on her own. The sea is dying! Like S. Calif waters in the early days it was warm and
plentiful, but this mistress like that one has too many hands trying to feel it up.
I started going down to Mulege when Carlos would drive up to your campground with his store in a panel van. When the date bread at the house on the
point outside of santispac would make your trip down there complete. Back then, grouper were viewable via snorkeling in reefs around Coyote bay and
amberjack pounced on any lure on the points around santispac, coyote, pt. baja etc. It was a magical sight for a 10 year old skin diver.
Now when we go to Loreto, you have to travel out where Skeet mentions, but the days of catching almost every fish imaginable out of the harbor mouth
at Puerto Escondido ended far to soon.
Camping at juncalito or Puerto escondido when thier was no development was pristine and a memory I'll never forget. We caught dorado off the concrete
pier using freshwater gear. Development of the start of something and then it being left as is forever is what has changed the sea. Do you remember
when Tripui was just a campground? Do you remember the boils that used to go on forever, where it seemed that bird, fish, man and water were one.
Those days are history.
But it seems that one thing this board could do is set up a signature area where all it's members could become a voice. Where they could make a
statement or opinion of what they see happening and deliver it to them with the electronic means now available.
We can sit and write about the good times and read about the current state of the sea, yet it will only just be read by a few of us and become just a
blip in the radar of life. So maybe they administrators could come up with a way of creating a public outlet that reachs the Mexican government. Maybe
it's already here and if it's here point the way. But memories are like mistresses, they only come around once in a while and sometimes they dont come
back at all.
How's the fishing down there right now?
Skeet, so you know Don Presley?
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gonetobaja
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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Oh man,
Well skeet you are going to scare off my customers with all of that crazy talk.
Ive been telling people for years that getting drunk on the beach and running around naked is normal activites...
And now my political statment...
"I think gill nets suck, and they kill alot of stuff thats not fish."
Wow I feel very activist-like.
GTB
And here is a pic of a gill net laying in a baby seagull hatchery...like I said,...Sucks...
http://www.gonetobaja.com
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