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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
As far as "far safer" I'm curious to know how you measure that? If not murders - robbery? burglary? theft?
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto] |
I measure it by how i can walk downtown at 4am and have no problem in 7yrs, by how i don't lock my doors or windows at night, and by how my neighboors
kids move around the neighboorhood with no worries whatsoever. In fact, the only place i have ever felt safer than down here in La Paz, is in one of
those middle of nowhere towns population 300, anywhere in Baja.
Baja sur is without a doubt, one of the safest places in northamerica, if not the world. |
Jesse, I have lived in many places. A small percentage in the U.S., none in Mexico. What I do know, is that the safety of a place is relative - you
feel safe walking where you walk, being the person you are, etc. Someone else, two blocks away may be getting robbed while you are walking home.
The fact remains that when you look at the level of crime in Baja Sur, and there aren't that many large population centers in BCS, it's higher than
most U.S. States and cities. There must be an explanation to that, don't you think?
What gets my goat is when you step in and make your statement that tries to invalidate the discussion that has occurred to that point.
I have no dog in this race. I don't live in Mexico, nor do I have plans to. I visit often, both the isolated towns you refer to, and the bigger
centers like La Paz and Tijuana. But, this is not about me. I feel that many people on this board want to hide reality for whatever reason, be it a
desire to justify their move, commercial interests, whatever. Most of these people are from the U.S., by the way. Whatever decision you make, should
be made on facts, period.
Thank you for asnwer
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Roberto
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Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Anybody ever tell you you're a mean drunk, DENNIS? |
Let's not be truncating those big words here, Robby. I know you can handle three sylables without your goomba mindset turning to over-cooked pasta.
It's meaningful.....M-E-A-N-I-N-G-F-U-L.
OK....say the word clearly, spell it, then return to your seat and quietly await your next turn. |
I guess the answer to my question is no?
DENNIS I have infinite respect for your service, and I will defend that to my last breath. But you sir, can be a real buttcrack. L'Chaim.
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto]
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JESSE
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Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
As far as "far safer" I'm curious to know how you measure that? If not murders - robbery? burglary? theft?
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto] |
I measure it by how i can walk downtown at 4am and have no problem in 7yrs, by how i don't lock my doors or windows at night, and by how my neighboors
kids move around the neighboorhood with no worries whatsoever. In fact, the only place i have ever felt safer than down here in La Paz, is in one of
those middle of nowhere towns population 300, anywhere in Baja.
Baja sur is without a doubt, one of the safest places in northamerica, if not the world. |
The fact remains that when you look at the level of crime in Baja Sur, and there aren't that many large population centers in BCS, it's higher than
most U.S. States and cities. |
Thats simply one of the most ridiculous things i have heard in a while , i am sorry, but you have no clue.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
You're right - when calculating I did not take into account different population counts (oops).
But I dug some more and here are numbers for the entire state (Az and all others).
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm
According to this murders per 100,000 in AZ for 2009 = 5.4. Interesting is that numbers are down from 7.0 the previous year.
thanks for catching that. |
Quit a conflict of data from the link showing rate for whole state of AZ vs previos link showing rate by city which comes out to 26/100,000 for 2009
 :
Attachment: 2009 Az murder.doc (29kB)
This file has been downloaded 283 times
Bob Durrell
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Roberto
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Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
As far as "far safer" I'm curious to know how you measure that? If not murders - robbery? burglary? theft?
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto] |
I measure it by how i can walk downtown at 4am and have no problem in 7yrs, by how i don't lock my doors or windows at night, and by how my neighboors
kids move around the neighboorhood with no worries whatsoever. In fact, the only place i have ever felt safer than down here in La Paz, is in one of
those middle of nowhere towns population 300, anywhere in Baja.
Baja sur is without a doubt, one of the safest places in northamerica, if not the world. |
The fact remains that when you look at the level of crime in Baja Sur, and there aren't that many large population centers in BCS, it's higher than
most U.S. States and cities. |
Thats simply one of the most ridiculous things i have heard in a while , i am sorry, but you have no clue. |
I'm curious: how do you account for the infinite ripoffs (or attempts): cops, car rental agencies, stuff taken from hotels, gas stations, etc. Note
that these are not limited to tourists who can afford it, but even the poorest of the poor in mexico get ripped of by their fellow Mexicans.
And do you have an explanation for the statistics I posted? If I were to come to La Paz with my boat (expensive boat) and truck (expensive truck) and
leave them parked on the street overnight, what do you think would happen? If you want to compare La Paz to a place like East LA, that's one thing,
but I can walk pretty much anywhere in Manhattan at any hour of the day or night, and the worst that will happen is to get hit up for money by
homeless people. Come to think about it, if it's late enough, they're probably asleep on some subway grate. Why is it that Mexicans, practically
everywhere have grates and iron gates on their doors? So they can keep them open at night?
Anyway, I don't want to enter into a polemic here, so that's pretty much all I have to say. Matter of fact, I just wanted to post alternative stats to
those that had been posted.
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto]
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krafty
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Manhattan? Or you could get hit over the head with a crow bar, robbed and left for dead. Could happen anywhere, anytime of the day or night.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
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Krafty - when were you last in Manhattan?
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
As far as "far safer" I'm curious to know how you measure that? If not murders - robbery? burglary? theft?
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto] |
I measure it by how i can walk downtown at 4am and have no problem in 7yrs, by how i don't lock my doors or windows at night, and by how my neighboors
kids move around the neighboorhood with no worries whatsoever. In fact, the only place i have ever felt safer than down here in La Paz, is in one of
those middle of nowhere towns population 300, anywhere in Baja.
Baja sur is without a doubt, one of the safest places in northamerica, if not the world. |
The fact remains that when you look at the level of crime in Baja Sur, and there aren't that many large population centers in BCS, it's higher than
most U.S. States and cities. |
Thats simply one of the most ridiculous things i have heard in a while , i am sorry, but you have no clue. |
I'm curious: how do you account for the infinite ripoffs (or attempts): cops, car rental agencies, stuff taken from hotels, gas stations, etc. Note
that these are not limited to tourists who can afford it, but even the poorest of the poor in mexico get ripped of by their fellow Mexicans.
And do you have an explanation for the statistics I posted? If I were to come to La Paz with my boat (expensive boat) and truck (expensive truck) and
leave them parked on the street overnight, what do you think would happen? If you want to compare La Paz to a place like East LA, that's one thing,
but I can walk pretty much anywhere in Manhattan at any hour of the day or night, and the worst that will happen is to get hit up for money by
homeless people. Come to think about it, if it's late enough, they're probably asleep on some subway grate. Why is it that Mexicans, practically
everywhere have grates and iron gates on their doors? So they can keep them open at night?
Anyway, I don't want to enter into a polemic here, so that's pretty much all I have to say. Matter of fact, I just wanted to post alternative stats to
those that had been posted.
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto] |
I live in downtown La Paz, theres several B &B's and small hotels around, tourists always coming in and out with their rigs, parking on the
street, and never have any problems. The business community here is pretty close, we know everything thats happening in town. One time there was a
homeless guy who came from out of town and started to break car windows and steal stuff, in a matter of a week we knew who it was and dealt with it.
What i am telling you is fact, not speculation based on who knows what. The situation is pretty much the same in the rest of Baja sur, except for cabo
off course and i am sure some towns might have some problems that are out of the ordinary for baja, considering the economic slump we are going tru.
As for the "infinite ripoffs" you mention, what can i say? i don't know where you hang out, or the environment you have around you, but is not a
problem at all for me, my friends, or family. If it was, we aould all be talking about it, and last time i checked, most of the people around here
still sleep with their windows open in dowtown La Paz, believe it because its true.
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JoeJustJoe
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Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Joe,
There were some statistics cited. My numbers are different. I did not create the 100,000 figure or anything else, I'm just saying my numbers are
different and wanted to see where CortezBlue got his.
Don't understand what the X100,000 figure has anything to do with anything - it's just the way these are reported by the government.
Sounds like what you're really saying is that we should try to filter out and disregard the cartel killings?
Dude, I go and work in Tijuana at least twice a week, and have a place quite a bit further south than that, regardless of the statistics. But ignoring
reality doesn't change it, nor does listing them make one an alarmist. Trying to cover them up - well, that's another story. |
Roberto I really wasn't talking about you, but rather the deaths per 100,000 that could be very misleading especially when working with small numbers.
For example the "alarmist" will say one place in Mexico has a death rate of 10 per 100,000 and another place in the US with a death rate of 5 per
100,000 and then say Mexico has a 50 percent higher death rate.
Really 50 percent higher when working with such small numbers of 2, 5, 10, or even 20? I think it could be very misleading especially given the fact
8 out of 10 killed out of 100,000 were involved in the drug trade. These 100,000 statistics are laughable when you use them for large cities like LA,
NY, Chicago, San Diego, Phoenix, Mexico city or other large city in Mexico. In every large city there are some very nice safe areas, and there are
dangerous ghettos. For example those 100,000 figures could include both Beverly Hills and Compton if they were talking about Los Angeles and really
those places are like night and day when talking about safely issues.
Oh another thing I think somebody would have to be a hypocrite to always be sounding the alarm how dangerous Mexico is especially in the border states
when they themselves travel to Mexico all the time. Wouldn't you agree Roberto?
A person would have to be pretty foolish to believe just traveling to Mexico puts their or your life at risk, but yet they do it all the time or
worst yet they still live in Mexico.
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Roberto
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Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Joe,
Are the statistics all-revealing? No, of course not. Should they be ignored? I don't think so. You know I think you just made the case that making a
statement that Mexico is safer than the US is invalid. Yes, there are safe and dangerous areas in both (all) countries, you are correct there. But the
statistics do have SOME meaning, wouldn't you say? I know Mexico reasonably well and used to hitchhike all up and down it in the seventies - don't
think I'd do that today. I would say that, on the whole, Mexico is more dangerous than the US, and I think the statistics support that. Besides the
danger, I think the chance of getting ripped off one way or another is also greater in Mexico.
Who is always sounding the alarm on how dangerous Mexico is? I don't think it's me, at least I don't recall EVER posting on that subject. So who are
you referring to?
What I was saying is that, for me, understanding the danger has not (yet) gotten me to the point where I won't go, which is why I spend as much time
in TJ as I do and why I keep my very modest vacation "home" in another part of Baja.
Knowing the town and having friends and colleagues there, I feel reasonably safe and certainly have a good time there. In fact, I have criticized
others when they trash talk TJ without knowing anything about it. But I also think that going to TJ without any idea of where you are, where you're
going as a "tourist" could get dangerous, would you agree?
[Edited on 9-2-2011 by Roberto]
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