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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
California schools have become among the nations worst and NOBODY gets a good education anymore! Nobody... illegal or legal.
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You can largely blame that on parenting, not the schools.
All due respect David, how about some empirical evidence to back up such a statement.
The worst educational systems are in the right to work states.
Go figure.
Give me something more than anecdotal horsepoo on this. |
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE Frank... I grew up in San Diego County... K through 12 (Class of '76) and then Palomar College before getting sidetracked into
irrigation back in 1980. The changes in how and what is taught to our children and then on prioroities for future citizens has been epic in near
disaster... at least where my two kids went to school and yes, I had to teach them who the presidents were and about America's contributions to the
free world.
By the time they finished middle school, they were convinced Martin Luther King was one of our president's and the best thing they could say about
Thomas Jefferson is that he had slaves... great. Oh, do I talk about how they had to study the Muslim religion, but no longer could daily say the
Pledge to the flag... with that terrible 'Under God' part in it!!!
Maybe in other California schools... with lots of home schooling, it is different... Just not here where my kids went (within 20 miles of where I
went, 30 years earlier)!
Oh, and my son had an IEP... let me not get started on all the nonsense and meetings with staff I went through just to try and get him what the law
said he was to get.. and he never did get... they always had excuses and made him start the process over each year, even though it was known what he
needed... Yah Frank, I was there, and I did it all as best a single parent could... When you fight the teacher's union for the good of your children,
they (at least here) make sure your kids loose, but still act like the kids come first.
At least now, many years later, my son has really come forward, is going to college, wants more out of life, and I am happy to see it. My daughter,
too (now a mother) wants to get ahead and have better and it is great to see her thinking so well of the future. Those positive attitudes are not
anything the public school system has given them, but instead on internal dynamics within them.
If any good can come of this: Support the School Voucher System that helps non-rich families transfer their kids to better schools, like the rich and
political elites use!
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DianaT
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David K
Because you and your children had a bad experience for possibly many reasons, how can that translate to:
"California schools have become among the nations worst and NOBODY gets a good education anymore! Nobody..."
I still hear from former students who graduated with honors from places like Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Boston College, etc. and Calexico is
considered a low performing school district according to the "test" scores---- a totally different topic as to why.
But does that mean that every student in Calexico receives an education that qualifies them for such success? NO is does not. There are too many
variables.
Some home schooled students receive excellent educations and some parents should be jailed for child abuse because of their awful attempts at home
schooling.
One cannot paint with such a broad brush. Are there problems with the school system? Yes and there always will be. But the middle class and the
overall success of this country has been a result of public education.
The voucher system would only give another break to the very wealthy who already can afford to send their children to private schools. The amount
that any middle or working class person would receive as a voucher would not pay for private schools ---not even close.
And private schools are not necessarily better. Often some of their teachers are not certified and are very underpaid. One of the reasons they are
often successful is because of the student's home environment--it makes a huge difference.
It is a shame your children had such a difficult time for whatever reasons.
BTW --- California used to be number 1 in funding for their public schools----they are way down on the list now. And yes, money can and does make a
difference in things like class size, supplies, enrichment programs, etc.
But as soulpatch wrote, the opportunities are still there within the public system.
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DianaT
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Soulpatch,
We both know that all those evil unions are what are destroying this country----it was those Robber Barons who built the middle class in this
country----
I also was on my own at 16. I managed to barely finish my last year of high school supporting myself with the Social Security I received from the
death of my dad while living with my sister who was barely out of high school. What a dump we lived in. Actually, I did not attend school too often
until they told me that if I missed one more day I would not graduate. :-)
It was not until later that I also started a long, very long journey seeking higher education. What was great was that the community colleges in
those days were FREE. It took me 8 years to get through community college---one or two classes at a time and a couple of kids thrown in.
Higher education in California was available to everyone, and it is sad that the B movie actor started the trend of making higher education less
available. John remembers when it cost him a $72.00 fee for each semester at UCLA.
But this, I guess is off-the topic---so to bring it back on topic, I am also a big supported of the Dream Act. YES. Education should be available to
any student who has the motivation.
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David K
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Location: San Diego County
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Yes Frank, I have moved my kids into different classes (it wasn't easy, the principle said no... until I went to the district supervisor (who was so
impressed at my desires for my kids to get educated, gave me his home number to contact him if I was getting the run around any more). My daughter
also went to the academy schools in the area when the standard public school was impossible to deal with anymore.
Yes, all public funded... as I said, I am not rich and could not afford private schools without allowing me to use the tax dollars taken from me to
pay for them via vouchers. School choice is what will make excellent schools, not protectionism by unions over members.
Anyway, I gave my personal experience with my opinion (yes jdtrotter, I know all California schools aren't bad, I was just seriously frustrated with
the politics and to hell with the kids as long as the teacher keeps her job attitude, I experienced).
Things seriously changed after the 70's... and while most probably get through and do fine, and sure higher number are left by the wayside... and yes
lack of parent envolvement is the biggest failure for our kids...
As for funding for our schools... if we only had to educate the kids of taxpayers (citizens) and not everyone that shows up, maybe there would be
enough money... What the heck happened to the California Lottery, that was supposed to boost money for schools? Is that what Jerry Brown is going to
use to pay for foreign kids to go to college in California, while California kids have to pay or forget about it???
Crazy, just crazy... 
[Edited on 1-23-2012 by David K]
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DianaT
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David K,
I guess you and your children are simply victims and may always be so. Very sad indeed.
[Edited on 1-23-2012 by DianaT]
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JoeJustJoe
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
California schools have become among the nations worst and NOBODY gets a good education anymore! Nobody... illegal or legal.
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You can largely blame that on parenting, not the schools.
All due respect David, how about some empirical evidence to back up such a statement.
The worst educational systems are in the right to work states.
Go figure.
Give me something more than anecdotal horsepoo on this. |
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE Frank... I grew up in San Diego County... K through 12 (Class of '76) and then Palomar College before getting sidetracked into
irrigation back in 1980. The changes in how and what is taught to our children and then on prioroities for future citizens has been epic in near
disaster... at least where my two kids went to school and yes, I had to teach them who the presidents were and about America's contributions to the
free world.
By the time they finished middle school, they were convinced Martin Luther King was one of our president's and the best thing they could say about
Thomas Jefferson is that he had slaves... great. Oh, do I talk about how they had to study the Muslim religion, but no longer could daily say the
Pledge to the flag... with that terrible 'Under God' part in it!!!
Maybe in other California schools... with lots of home schooling, it is different... Just not here where my kids went (within 20 miles of where I
went, 30 years earlier)!
Oh, and my son had an IEP... let me not get started on all the nonsense and meetings with staff I went through just to try and get him what the law
said he was to get.. and he never did get... they always had excuses and made him start the process over each year, even though it was known what he
needed... Yah Frank, I was there, and I did it all as best a single parent could... When you fight the teacher's union for the good of your children,
they (at least here) make sure your kids loose, but still act like the kids come first.
At least now, many years later, my son has really come forward, is going to college, wants more out of life, and I am happy to see it. My daughter,
too (now a mother) wants to get ahead and have better and it is great to see her thinking so well of the future. Those positive attitudes are not
anything the public school system has given them, but instead on internal dynamics within them.
If any good can come of this: Support the School Voucher System that helps non-rich families transfer their kids to better schools, like the rich and
political elites use! |
I call BS!
The vast majority of kids still say the pledge including the line about God.
A kid would have to be pretty dumb to believe Martin Luther King was a US President, because I know schools wouldn't teach such falsehoods.
Now some conservative bigoted parents might hate the fact that schools their children go to learn anything about Martin Luther King.
It's doubtful the schools teach anything but the most basic tenets about the Muslim religion, and they would probably do so in world history high
school courses, where they might briefly hear about the five pillars of Islams to contrast to what they already know about the 10 commandments.
At least your kids know a little about Thomas Jefferson David K. If your kids were in the right-wing God fearing Texas Schools districts. There is a
chance they might not have heard about the most important Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, because the Texas school districts don't like Jefferson's
deist views and want Jefferson replaces with Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin because their philosophical views are more in line with the
Judeo-Christian thumpers views in Texas.
And if your kids grew up in Texas they would be taught sexual "ignorance" or rather "Abstinence" sex education. Abstinence sex education is the
reason why so many teen girls get knocked up in Texas.
School Voucher Systems are unfair to poor parents that would still be forced to send them children to public schools, and the public schools would
probably get less tax dollars if school voucher programs were available to rich and middle class parents.
Besides I don't want my tax dollars to go to private religious schools that teach kids about Jesus. They could learn about Jesus in their church.
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rts551
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Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yes, all public funded... as I said, I am not rich and could not afford private schools without allowing me to use the tax dollars taken from me to
pay for them via vouchers. School choice is what will make excellent schools, not protectionism by unions over members
[Edited on 1-23-2012 by David K] |
Aren't the schools funded out of local property taxes? Don't you have to have property to have those $ "taken" from you? If you are a renter I
supposed the $ are taken from someone else? State subsidies come from income taxes but the assumes you have reported income. Seems to me school
was pretty economical in your case.
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David K
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Property taxes are the source, and since my monthly rent is how my landlord pays the school taxes, I have been paying as much as any other resident
here.
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rts551
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Property taxes are the source, and since my monthly rent is how my landlord pays the school taxes, I have been paying as much as any other resident
here. |
Seems to me that you were quite the beneficiary of other people's taxes then.
And you landlord probably thinks they are his taxes as well.
Enough said. we are getting off topic except to the extent that the funding for your children was not too much different from the ones crossing the
border.
[Edited on 1-23-2012 by rts551]
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Ateo
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I just asked my 8 year old daughter, "was Martin Luther King a president?". Her response, "no".
Case closed.
Just kidding. Complicated issue here....
As far as the "under god", it was added in 1954. It's not as old school as everyone thinks. 
Sorry to go even more off topic.
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David K
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Yes I know... and it was good enough for me in the 60's to love my country enough and have some pride in America instead of blaming us for all the
world's ills and pollution (the Soviet East Block was far dirtier). Then the recent lie about man caused global warming as a way to punish America
further when we do so much good in the world to care for others... really pitiful. Now, we are talking about forcing the Canadians to not help America
with the Keystone pipeline and let them build it directly west to sell straight to Red China... and this is a shovel-ready project with 20,000 direct
new jobs and 100,000 indirect jobs. Shame shame on the politicians hurting Americans.
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Ateo
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DK: Global warming is real. I was skeptical at first, but evidence has changed my mind.
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EnsenadaDr
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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The article is clear, American citizens, then why are they living in Mexico?? Were their parents deported? Or if the parents are legit, then why
don't they send their kids to a good private school in Mexico...they could save themselves a hassle and the education would be just as good if not
superior, because the kids would be learning Spanish and English grammar concurrently.,,,
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bajaguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
The article is clear, American citizens, then why are they living in Mexico?? Were their parents deported? Or if the parents are legit, then why
don't they send their kids to a good private school in Mexico...they could save themselves a hassle and the education would be just as good if not
superior, because the kids would be learning Spanish and English grammar concurrently.,,, |
American citizens living in Mexico, going to school (illegally) in the US.....avoiding taxes and spreading the tax burden to all of us who are
legal......but I guess that is acceptable to many.
Those of us who do the right thing get penalized due to the actions of those who don' follow the rules or the law............
but again, that is acceptable to many.....
[Edited on 1-23-2012 by bajaguy]
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
DK: Global warming is real. I was skeptical at first, but evidence has changed my mind. |
I see the evidence in Baja on the coast that proves to me there isn't any sea level change (effective) having gone to the same coastline for 40 years.
Sure, erosion happens and the coast changes, but the actual height of the water is not higher (by any more than a cigarette length). In photos of
Concepcion Bay (rock not sand), the old road splashed in high tide water near El Coyote in 1966... and it still just splashed in high tide water in
2007... The cluster of palms on the beach, are still on the beach, and not underwater... etc. etc.
As for temperatures, weather changes, it has for millions of years... long before factories and cars... just because the winters or summers are not
the same as they were when we grew up is no gauge. Who's to say that the weather now isn't normal and when we grew up (with more air pollution) it
wasn't abnormal?
I can think of better things to worry about than this 'sky is falling' hysteria of global warming... which has been turned into a money making scheme
by out-of-work polliticians and 3rd world countries to suck more dinero from the good 'ol USA.
In the 70's, it was believed that we were entering a new Ice Age, and their were ideas floated on how to intesify the sunlight reaching earth! Cooling
didn't scare enough people... so they went with 'warming' and falsified data and showed scary movies to school kids... great.
[Edited on 1-23-2012 by David K]
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TMW
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yes, all public funded... as I said, I am not rich and could not afford private schools without allowing me to use the tax dollars taken from me to
pay for them via vouchers. School choice is what will make excellent schools, not protectionism by unions over members
[Edited on 1-23-2012 by David K] |
Aren't the schools funded out of local property taxes? Don't you have to have property to have those $ "taken" from you? If you are a renter I
supposed the $ are taken from someone else? State subsidies come from income taxes but the assumes you have reported income. Seems to me school
was pretty economical in your case. |
Only a portion is from local property taxes. The state gives each scholl district an amount per student based on various factors. The money comes from
various sources property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, lottery tickets etc. Over half of the CA budget goes to fund schools.
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paranewbi
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"In 1931, the Southern California community of Lemon Grove served as the unlikely stage for a dramatic and significant civil rights court case. A
group of Mexican and Mexican-American parents and their children won a major victory in the battle against school segregation and the notion of
separate but equal facilities. The case, now commonly referred to as the Lemon Grove Incident, was the nation's first recognized court-ordered school
desegregation case. The Lemon Grove parents' efforts and legal struggles involved more than 70 children of Mexican descent who were summarily directed
by their school principal to attend a hastily constructed, two-room segregated school, the "caballeriza," the barn, which was situated in the "Mexican
side of town." The Lemon Grove case is not well known and one could surmise that its most distinguishing characteristic is its obscurity. Similar to
the post World War II landmark "Mendez v. Westminster" case, the Lemon Grove matter could be deemed an item of "neglected" history not only because of
the public's ignorance of it, but also because of its absence from the public school curriculum. As with "Lemon Grove" and "Mendez," many important
historical events pertaining to the Mexican-American experience are not taught in the public schools. Moreover, the Lemon Grove case, albeit an item
of unheralded history that has yet to be incorporated into the school curriculum, is a momentous and symbolic historical civil rights event that is
one of countless and unique historical, political, and sociological elements that constitute the Mexican-American experience."
"One of the most famous cases, Mendez v. Westminster School District, was a 1945 lawsuit filed by Mexican families in Orange County against the local
school district. The case led to the banning of segregated schools in California.
The federal judge in the case ruled in 1946 that the separate-but-equal doctrine of the time did not apply to Mexican-Americans because they were not
an identifiable racial group. However, sending them to separate schools based on their national origin violated the 14th Amendment of the U.S.
Constitution, which guarantees equal protection to all citizens."
"The disturbing thing is that despite Brown v. Board, Latino children are more segregated today than they were in 1954," said Espinosa, citing a
recent Harvard University study. The segregation is not forced, he said, but based on the high number of Latinos who live in poor neighborhoods."
So…. Let’s extrapolate the arguments based on contribution of a financial nature qualifies a student to attend school in the community (i.e. payment
of property taxes gives rise to rights).
In the poorer neighborhoods of San Diego where the property tax base is much less and therefore contributions are much less, then is the conclusion
drawn that those students should only get what they pay for? Or is it that ANY contribution gives rise to a claim of equal access to the better
school? Or is it the issue of transiting a border…if we can take the article at face value in stating these kids are US citizens.
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