jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Open Minds, Individuality, and Discussion
Many people still believe in individuality. It's a good thing and most are able to have discussions, based on observations, and come up with
solutions, or at least work towards them. Together
Rather than being spineless, ignore the problems, and whine about those that have these conversations. One of the best things about the Baja
communities is they are all able to talk about anything, without being pretentious.
Kind of the exact opposite of pretending to wish someone well and titling the thread "squabbles" for instance. Individuality!
There are many people of many different backgrounds on here. Which ones should be able to voice their opinions and which ones shouldn't.
Let me guess, this should be turned into the Baja Vacationers board where everything about Baja is based on a few tourists short term vacations
here. No arguments, no differing opinions, no strife.
It's all good hic... Yah, right!
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RandyMacSC/SO
Special Correspondent
Posts: 422
Registered: 2-2-2004
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Intellectual bankruptcy... or engaging discussions
Discussions can be rich opportunities for travellers, locals, fulltimers, and parttimers who enjoy the Baja to present their views with others, work
collectively to address problems or issues, to engage in areas of interest and to receive feedback as they learn more about the Baja.
Productive discussions are not a zero sum game as there no winner or loser. This is not the Capital Gang, but at times it has seemed as though the
whole gang of wads from CNN have engaged in bashing on the Nomad forum.
A constructive discussion generates critical thought in the audience and doesn't just offer an analysis of problems, but offers real solutions and
alternatives.
I've seen many a productive engaging discussions on Nomad, and even though I may not have engaged directly in them, I have learned alot. I've also
witnessed when discussions turn ugly and denegrate into name calling, and nasty insults back and forth. Emotionalism or personal attacks are only an
admission of intellectual bankruptcy.
Making allusions to circumstance, popular belief, accusations, or other nasty intellectual bankrupt statements makes people look like typical
politicians. Politicians and political pundits are excellent examples of people who use innuendo when they cannot prove a direct statement. Just watch
CNN, and you can get your fill.
I learned that the first rule in any engaging discussion is to remember that the goal is to persuade the audience to your point of view without
bashing other people's points of view or opinions. Cramming a viewpoint down the throat of others rarely builds audience support.
Since BajaNomad member numbers appear to be climbing, as opposed to declining, and since this board is continuely supporting new threads daily,
hourly, and sometimes by the minute, I would say that people are more often than not, engaged on BajaNomad.
There are some spats on Nomad, and some of the regulars, at times can seem too engaging, which might scare some off, but remember: it's the new Nomad
members that often stimulate engaging and productive conversations about the Baja to keep the regulars around.
The common bond that binds us together is the love of the Baja. As JRBaja suggests, we are all individuals, not robots or sheep and we have our own
opinions. It is a right in a free society. Respecting each others opinions and viewpoints shows that a person has more moxy upstairs.
I very much enjoy it when someone relates a relevant personal experience about the Baja or the subject being discussed. An antedote or personal story
always strikes a chord with the audience because they want to hear concrete, first-hand examples with an open mindedness to learning from each other,
no matter how right or wrong he or she may seem to you on the issues being discussed.
If you don't want to get engage in a discussion, simply engage in some other thread.
RandyMac 
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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Cyndarouh
Nomad
Posts: 237
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: San Diego Mountains
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Thank You, RandyMac!!!!!!!!
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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Thank you Both, this is What makes Baja Nomad the best and most interesting.
Bruce R Leech
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
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I Concur
Differences in opinion occur everywhere. There is, however, there is a general demeanor on this site that makes it attractive.
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RandyMacSC/SO
Special Correspondent
Posts: 422
Registered: 2-2-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by academicanarchist
Differences in opinion occur everywhere. There is, however, there is a general demeanor on this site that makes it attractive.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
It was probably that election tension, now that is over maybe we can relax and be more friendly. |
Politics are always prone to disagreement, and politics being discussed on BajaNomads is no exception. Only the subject of religion and morality rival
politics as a major source of disagreement, but that is human nature at work, and it's probably not going to change much in our lifetime. That is
unless people take the time to look within at their divergent values and think, before lashing out in ignorance using irrational argument.
The other day I could have been bated into a political discussion, but chose to avoid it. Why? I knew the discussion would result in argument without
any positive results as the individual seemed set in their personal viewpoint, and nothing I said would change it.
Why bother. I've got better things to do.
RandyMac
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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RandyMacSC/SO
Special Correspondent
Posts: 422
Registered: 2-2-2004
Member Is Offline
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An example of the benefits of frequenting BN
Today, I went with my older brother to the pub for a steak sandwich and a beer. There was a table of elderly gentleman sitting at the next table,
talking about the election. As I sat down one asked me when I was headed back to Mexico.
When I mentioned Baja, the eldest of the 5 (my brother said he was close to 90) got all animated and excited about Baja. I listened intently as he
spoke about Lareto, Bahia Concepcion, La Paz, and related stories from 40 years ago. A very knowlegable man, full of excitement to speak of the many
memories of his journeys into mainland and Baja Mexico. I was able to follow his story, and the geography of areas that he spoke of, not as a result
of having been to the Baja myself, but more importantly, from the many stories related by members of BajaNomad.
As I left, the elderly gentleman walked over to me, cane in hand, and thanked me for the enjoyable time. The time for me was mutual. He had a huge
smile on his face, and said he looked forward to meeting again some day to talk more about the Baja. When his friend asked if he wanted a ride home,
he said he wanted to walk. He seemed so full of energy, more so than when I first entered the bar, and my older brother said it was probably as a
result of being able to speak of such fond memories that brought a vibrancy to the rest of his day.
I sure he's seen more politics in his years than he cares to listen to, or discuss, and had he talked politics, like the others atr his table, I
probably wouldn't have listened at all to him and never had the chance to meet him.
I sure hope I can be around long enough to relay stories of Baja when I reach 65, let alone 90. And I think my love of the Baja will be a deciding
factor.
Look forward to meeting some elderly veterans of the Baja, so I can learn more for when I return to my hometown and get to meet my elderly friend for
a beer and steak sandwich.
RandyMac
[Edited on 11-3-2004 by RandyMac]
[Edited on 11-3-2004 by RandyMac]
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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Debra
Super Nomad
Posts: 2101
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Port Orchard Wa./Bahia de Los Angeles BC
Member Is Offline
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Good story Randy......
Thanks for reminding me how much fun it can be to share Baja when away.
I'm embarressed to admit that I sometimes get so tired of answering questions when I'm in a social situation trying to enjoy myself and I'm bombarded
with questions about Baja, especially when "they" have been to Tijauna and know more than I.....so why ask me???? (my hubby talks too much and I'm
supposed to be the Port Orchard "know-it-all" about Baja, NOT!!! Sheeze! ) It reminds me of my years as a Travel Agent when I couldn't go
anywhere, not a family gathering or a bar, and not have everyone picking my brain while I'm trying to relax. Don't get me wrong, I love talking about
Baja, (especially with the old timers) but, I prefer to talk to someone that has been south of TJ. And I don't mind answering "newbies" questions on
a board, but, I sure hate it when my mouth is full of food while I'm dining out!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64524
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Do you tell newbies about the hazards of summer hiking to remote Baja historical locations... or why cell phones don't work on the trail to Yubay???
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Debra
Super Nomad
Posts: 2101
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Port Orchard Wa./Bahia de Los Angeles BC
Member Is Offline
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David, you're an a*s!
Is this payback for my comment on your spelling? 
   :moon: Just kidding! And Hey! I was just looking for a Taxi
ride out of there!
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Hey David
I will never whine about you posting pictures of me again and I really suggest you follow suit with yours
I'm sorry Debra
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Debra
Super Nomad
Posts: 2101
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Port Orchard Wa./Bahia de Los Angeles BC
Member Is Offline
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I hope y'all know I was just joshing my good friend David.....if I would have been upset about that photo, I would have asked him to remove it long
ago, not, so....I feel flattered to be included in the fun of David's web-site, and the many trips that us Amigos/Nomads have taken together. And
look forward to many more with the old friends and hope to meet new. I still do get a kick out of that pic. and the story behind it! 
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