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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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But wait there's more!
Coincidentally saw this article on Xeric World Forums:
http://www.livescience.com/37055-greenhouse-gas-desert-plant...
"Beep, beep! There's more camouflage for sneaky roadrunners and wily coyotes in the deserts thanks to rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere,
a new study finds.
Between 1982 and 2010, leaf cover on plants rose by 11 percent in arid areas, including the southwestern United States, Australia's Outback, the
Middle East and some parts of Africa, the study found. The results were published May 15 in the journal Geophysical Research Letters."
However the study's results were not exactly confirmed conclusions...
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bajacalifornian
Super Nomad
Posts: 1117
Registered: 9-4-2010
Location: Loreto/Lopez Mateos/Rosarito
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Every time it rains.
American by birth, Mexican by choice.
Signature addendum: Danish physicist — Niels Bohr — who said, “The opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth.
Jeff Petersen
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
But wait there's more!
Coincidentally saw this article on Xeric World Forums:
http://www.livescience.com/37055-greenhouse-gas-desert-plant...
"Beep, beep! There's more camouflage for sneaky roadrunners and wily coyotes in the deserts thanks to rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere,
a new study finds.
Between 1982 and 2010, leaf cover on plants rose by 11 percent in arid areas, including the southwestern United States, Australia's Outback, the
Middle East and some parts of Africa, the study found. The results were published May 15 in the journal Geophysical Research Letters."
However the study's results were not exactly confirmed conclusions... |
---------but, does it really matter??? No matter what we do we cannot effect the outcome by more than 1 to 3%, es verdad?
-----and in the meantime we destroy the world economy. Is it really worth it???
You decide.
Barry
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Air, like the climate, is not static... it moves about this planet pushed by winds and pressure, as well as a rotating earth. CO2 created in one area
does not stay in that area. The same is true of oxygen.
Plants breath in CO2, and breath out oxygen, the opposite of animals... Volcanos and other natural sources also 'breath out' CO2. If CO2 levels rise,
so do the number of oxygen creating plants and trees.
That man thinks he is mightier than Nature and can change the climate is laughable... Nature always wins! |
What's laughable is the notion that the release of trillions of tons of CO2 and other gasses from the burning of hydrocarbons would
have no effect on our climate. Nature does always win, and will eventually render extinct any species that doesn't live in balance with it's
environment. |
The factors associated with the "enviroment" are endless, to suggest that human use of burning oil is a major factor would be myopic and absolutley
false. Consider first that human generated CO2 makes up a very small portion of greeen house gasses, do your math, but however you look at it the
human contribution is less than .01%, while volcanoes contribute far more.
If we were to conjecture about the singla largest factor in CO2 it would likely be the Sun, but it's affect is indirect and delayed meaning the
temperature rises first, and hundreds of years later the CO2 rises.
Furthermore, if one were to take a simplisitc look at oil, ask where does it come from, it is not a fossil fuel, that is misnomer and misleading, oil
is both biotic and abiotic, look it up for yourself. Oil and natural gas are biproducts of the earths processes and core magma. The earth is producing
carbon based oil, when we burn it we are transfering the energy in one form to another, yet it has been demomstrated that waste from oil and coal can
and is regenerated back to it's oringinal form.
Historically the earth has always been changing, many times historically the earth has much higher concentrations of CO2 in it's green house gas,
which is a food source for plants and correlates directly to plant and animal diversity.
If anything we have a shortage of CO2, commerical grow houses pump it in to help there starving plants, the human contribution is practically
negligable, in fact we have more oil reserves than ever before, we have also voluntarily reduced our CO2 output by more than 10% over the last decade
without penalties or absurd carbon taxes.
There is so much misinformation in this debate, while people should step back and think clearly and use logic to think about basic ideas like where
does oil come from, why is there so much, what happens when you burn oil does it affect the atmosphere in a radical way, what has happened
historically?
Emotional arguments and personal attacks are not relevant to the discussion, stick to facts and reconsider the idea that humans are evil and the cause
of all things-they are not.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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gnukid you use the numbers as bad as any one else. What MOST people agree on is
Just how much of the "Greenhouse Effect" is caused by human activity?
It is about 0.28%, if water vapor is taken into account-- about 5.53%, if not.
Its how you measure it number 1... and
Number 2 Does this percentage effect the overall balance of nature.
Some feel everything is cyclical and we are doomed to catastrophe anyway! So why worry. Use it or lose it. Right Barry?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Another topic for rational discussion is Green energy. The idea that energy is green, free, or sustainable, is absurd. The issue with all energy use
as we use it today is that there must be storage and transfer of energy. Solar and Wind power are extremely inefficient and unreliable as sources of
power and the energy must be stored and transfered. Both require petroleum products to produce, panels and wind turbines are expensive and are made of
petroleum products that are so expensive that they are not practical were other traditional options exist. It may different on a boat or for
occaisonal energy use. Both wind and solar take up space, causes pollution, they are unsightly and poor examples to focus on as solutions to reduce
pollution.
The world of energy has far to go, it starts with people thinking about what is energy and where is it, how does one tap into it and use it. Tesla had
many proven technologies, such as a wireless grid, which was shut down. There have been endless battery improvements but somehow they rarely seem to
get to market, but soon, very soon, we will see an evolution or revolution and will have nothing to do with green energy.
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajacalifornian
Every time it rains. |
Bingo!!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Water vapor is major component of green house gasses. It's water, It's not a poison, nor is CO2. This is simplistic approach, but let's face it this
is not the place for math.
While CO2 has increased globally, not everywhwere, but in places, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is quite low compared to history. Currently CO2
is about 400PPM.
But, tempertures have gone down in the period during the time where CO2 has gone up, slightly. The point there is no direct correlation, even if we
are talking about very small numbers.
There is no global temperature warming since 1998 yet this was a period of rapid global development.
Take a moment to look up green house gasses, it's primarily water yet people are programmed to think it's poison. Whatever happened to whol CFC scare?
overblown a bit? Global warming, didn't happne, yet still Gore, Obama and the EPA are trying to cah in and make you feel guilty while they fly around
in super jets and lobby to increase control and taxes. And that's why they are failing.
Again, some basic concepts, Oil is not limited in quantity, Oil is not a fossil fuel-it didn't come from dinosaurs. Carbon is life, Carbon dioxide is
food that is our symbiotic source of life, without it we would cease to exist. CO2 is low in concentrations compared to much of history.
Human generated CO2 has not been demonstrated to affect global temperature, weather, climate. In fact quite the opposite-- Temperature drives CO2.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
I also keep in mind that a single die-off of the Amazon rain forest will produce more CO2 than man has made since the days of "Lucy". This is a
statement of fact and not a political position.
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This is a common misconception many of us had. That being, that the Amazon is vital to our existence due to the O2 it generates. Measurements taken
show that virtually all of the O2 it generates (and conversely CO2 it uses) never leaves the Amazon but it used by the rainforest itself. It uses up
the O2 at night when plants respire and generate the CO2 they use up during photosynthesis with daylight.
It's believed that fully 1/2 of the world's free O2 comes from ocean plankton blooms.
P.S. Historically speaking, the early atmosphere of the planet never had O2. Oxygen was built up by anaerobic organisms and only when it became
present in sufficient amounts did plants evolve. We, on the other hand, did not evolve to use up the abundance of oxygen. We came about to feed on the
harvest of the new carbon the plants now made available.
[Edited on 6-3-2013 by Skipjack Joe]
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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I'm going to listen to the experts at NOAA way before I'll let anyone here persuade me
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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What's Good for the Environment
Is whatever is Good for US.
That US being Mankind, but even more specifically, those of US (nationally-speaking) at the TOP.
I'd hate to think that I had to give up things I consider important to save the third-world at some point in the future.
The Bangladeshis are on their own.
Hope they can swim.
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acadist
Super Nomad
Posts: 1125
Registered: 3-31-2007
Location: Spanaway,WA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for the Sun
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TOO FUNNY!!!!! How do I post it to Facebook?
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
A positive effect of global warming on a local scale?
link |
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Dave
I moved to CO and they made me buy a little rod to make it feel like a real fish
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by acadist
TOO FUNNY!!!!! How do I post it to Facebook?
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
A positive effect of global warming on a local scale?
link |
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Just right click on the picture and select "save picture as" whatever you want to call it. Now that it's on YOUR computer open Face Book and click on
"Your Photos" then click on "upload" to put it on FB. I don't use FB but my wife told me that's how you do it. Hope it works.
Bob Durrell
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
But wait there's more!
Coincidentally saw this article on Xeric World Forums:
http://www.livescience.com/37055-greenhouse-gas-desert-plant...
"Beep, beep! There's more camouflage for sneaky roadrunners and wily coyotes in the deserts thanks to rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere,
a new study finds.
Between 1982 and 2010, leaf cover on plants rose by 11 percent in arid areas, including the southwestern United States, Australia's Outback, the
Middle East and some parts of Africa, the study found. The results were published May 15 in the journal Geophysical Research Letters."
However the study's results were not exactly confirmed conclusions... |
---------but, does it really matter??? No matter what we do we cannot effect the outcome by more than 1 to 3%, es verdad?
-----and in the meantime we destroy the world economy. Is it really worth it???
You decide.
Barry |
I think it would be hard to shift gears too fast anyway, unless some overwhelming catastrophic events forced it. The switch to less fossil fuels may
happen of its own accord anyway---solar is more competitive every year and gas is going up and up. The solar panel /hydrogen fuel cell is an
attractive option. Hyperloops are even more interesting for longer trips.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Ice measurements (from USGS).
Even though these numbers look to be potentially very high, the scientific community believes that Antarctica will not lose it's ice due to an average
temp of -37C. The North Pole will go, however, with a sea level rise of about 25 feet. Barry can interpret the significance of this for you.
Location Volume (km3) Potential sea-level rise, (m)
=======================================
East Antarctic ice sheet
26,039,200
64.80
West Antarctic ice sheet
3,262,000
8.06
Antarctic Peninsula
227,100
.46
Greenland
2,620,000
6.55
All other ice caps, ice fields, and valley glaciers
180,000
.45
====================================
Total
32,328,300
80.32 (meters)
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17335
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Nasa animation shows stunning year in the life of carbon emissions:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/19/nasa-anim...
(i do suppose some of you think this is a pack of liberal lies,  :lol
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Good thing the ice caps are growing!
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StuckSucks
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 10-17-2013
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It was very green a week ago. Looking north from Agua Verde:
And while we're at it, what's wrong with climate change? It's been happening for a lot longer than we've been around. 5000 years ago, Lake Manly
flooded Death Valley. There were rainforests on the mountain tops above Mitchell Caverns in the Mojave Desert. Central California's central valley was
dotted with large lakes until 150 years ago. Greenland was called Greenland for a reason. This is nothing new - I'm over it.
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