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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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If we stay with the known facts that Gary stayed at Jardines, have a Nomad that spent time with him the night before he left the hotel and did he not
exhibit any appearances of stress (medical or other), left the hotel the following morning indicating he was going south and would return in a few
days, not a trace of him or his belongings for months, an elderly rancher turns Gary's virtually undisturbed 4 Runner into the Catavina police.
There is not yet a shred of evidence that he was ever in the vicinity that the rancher claims to have found the vehicle.
I am not insinuating anything by anyone.
Medical, foul play, self exile, etc.
These are all questions as well as where he was and where he is.
I just don't understand the intense interest in a concentrated ground search in an area that has not produced any evidence of Gary other than a
rancher claims to have come across his vehicle in an area that he patrols on a regular basis after it had been missing but not in that location for
months.
Yes the area must be searched for clues.
Yes many questions need to be asked of people in the area and involved with the vehicle.
I don't believe you are going to come away with anymore facts than what are found with the vehicle and those will be mostly confirmations of the
contents and that the trail ends the morning he left the hotel.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Don't you know alcohol dehydrates DENNIS? No one should ever be drinking and doing work out in the hot sun. Could cause an emboli to go the heart or
the brain and cause a heart attack or a stroke. |
You ignore the AC bar reference...just like everyone here is ignoring the mention of using a Cadaver Dog. They do have them down here.
Something else......diabetics, as well as others with debilitating infirmities, should remove themselves from the lineup.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Justbozo
If we stay with the known facts that Gary stayed at Jardines, have a Nomad that spent time with him the night before he left the hotel and did he not
exhibit any appearances of stress (medical or other), left the hotel the following morning indicating he was going south and would return in a few
days, not a trace of him or his belongings for months, an elderly rancher turns Gary's virtually undisturbed 4 Runner into the Catavina police.
There is not yet a shred of evidence that he was ever in the vicinity that the rancher claims to have found the vehicle.
I am not insinuating anything by anyone.
Medical, foul play, self exile, etc.
These are all questions as well as where he was and where he is.
I just don't understand the intense interest in a concentrated ground search in an area that has not produced any evidence of Gary other than a
rancher claims to have come across his vehicle in an area that he patrols on a regular basis after it had been missing but not in that location for
months.
Yes the area must be searched for clues.
Yes many questions need to be asked of people in the area and involved with the vehicle.
I don't believe you are going to come away with anymore facts than what are found with the vehicle and those will be mostly confirmations of the
contents and that the trail ends the morning he left the hotel. |
Well I would say the evidence is the 4-Runner was found near the ranch, and therefore it would be the most logical place to conduct a search for
Gary at the last known area where the SUV was found.
Granted Gary was not spotted in the area, and somebody else may have been behind the wheel and then got stuck in the sand, but if you're going to put
out a search party, this is probably logically the best place to start, all around the perimeter of where the truck was found.
Where would you search Justbozo?
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3882
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Justbozo
If we stay with the known facts that Gary stayed at Jardines, have a Nomad that spent time with him the night before he left the hotel and did he not
exhibit any appearances of stress (medical or other), left the hotel the following morning indicating he was going south and would return in a few
days, not a trace of him or his belongings for months, an elderly rancher turns Gary's virtually undisturbed 4 Runner into the Catavina police.
There is not yet a shred of evidence that he was ever in the vicinity that the rancher claims to have found the vehicle.
I am not insinuating anything by anyone.
Medical, foul play, self exile, etc.
These are all questions as well as where he was and where he is.
I just don't understand the intense interest in a concentrated ground search in an area that has not produced any evidence of Gary other than a
rancher claims to have come across his vehicle in an area that he patrols on a regular basis after it had been missing but not in that location for
months.
Yes the area must be searched for clues.
Yes many questions need to be asked of people in the area and involved with the vehicle.
I don't believe you are going to come away with anymore facts than what are found with the vehicle and those will be mostly confirmations of the
contents and that the trail ends the morning he left the hotel. |
Not sure if it was you or someone else here who posted that they are convinced that Gary never left San Quintin alive - that assertion simply doesn't
make any sense at all.
Everybody here in the San Quintin valley knows that there is a military checkpoint south of here before descending into El Rosario. They also know
that the alternate routes around that to the east and west are heavily patrolled by the military as well. It makes zero sense that a malandro would
attack Gary in San Quintin and risk being caught by the military trying to dump the vehicle three hours south when there are numerous remote areas to
dump it in the hills to the east of San Quintin?
And on top of that dump the vehicle leaving everything of value intact? That idea makes absolutely no sense either. Whatever the motive - simple
robbery or if he happened onto drug runners they still would never have left the truck behind without taking its contents and battery.
The folks involved in running drugs and gasoline out to the pangas here along the coast are not high level, gold chain wearing cartel members. They
are mostly out of work fishermen who struggle to keep food on the table. They would never pass up the opportunity to score a digital camera or
battery. Their economic situations simply eliminate that possibility.
Gary will be found, dead or alive, between Cataviña, Punta Canoas and Puerto Catarina. I think some of you guys watch too much television...
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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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BajaGringo
I haven't owned a TV in years. I prefer the view of the mountains and bay.
Your speculation is based on no more than mine.
Back away from the "criminal foul play" and expand your thoughts.
As an example, with no insinuation implied, only an example, what if he fell in love that morning and something happened to Gary and out of grief the
partner would not allow anything touched, scared, had the vehicle dumped. Mind you this is not necessarily as I see it, only an example!
There is not a shred of evidence yet that Gary ever set foot outside San Quitin!
I say beat the bushes around San Quintin.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Justbozo
Back away from the "criminal foul play" and expand your thoughts.
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He already had his thoughts expanded, as well as many of his body parts in the SQ area. He knows the risks of the area only too well.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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I should not have to say this but with advice like "drink ice-water" floating around, I have to say a few things so no one gets hurt.
No one should be doing any searching if it's over 100 unless they are acclimatized to the heat, this takes days.
No one should be doing any searching unless they are healthy and capable of walking for miles and miles.
Some kind of shade structure needs to be set up. COOL water should be consumed, at least a pint an hour. Ice-cold water is
a no-no, as is any drink with caffeine or alcohol.
A 10 minute break should be taken around once an hour in the shade of a bush or the shade structure.
Everyone needs to be familiar with heat stress in themselves and others in the party. Here's a link to OSHA on Heat Stress (Good to follow even if
you’re not working in the USA for pay): https://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3154.pdf
Everyone should have a least a quart to half gallon of COOL water with them.
Some kind of systematic transect system should be set up walking parallel transects (north-south, or east west, or paralleling a road), fairly easy to
do with a GPS unit; this also allows people to always be 30-50 feet away from other in the transect party, no one should be out alone. Also ensures
you cover all areas, and don't look at the same area twice
Some kind of radio communication should be set up if there are multiple teams in different areas.
A “check-in” “check-out” protocol needs to be set up in the field. You don’t want to get back to the hotel, or camp, and realize you left someone out
there.
There's more, like boots, long pants, hat, sunscreen, but I can't cover everything in a small post like this.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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How far is the suspected location where the SUV was found from the ocean?
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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"Gary will be found, dead or alive, between Cataviña, Punta Canoas and Puerto Catarina. I think some of you guys watch too much television..."
A sound assessment, I think. When the evidence from the car and cameras is made public it should be possible to run some likely scenarios. I can't
imagine that guys with any level of cartel involvement would want to bring down the heat that would be guaranteed by offing a tourist along their
"gasoline" supply route? Though, admittedly, no heat came for 7-8 months if, in fact, foul play was involved.
I'm more inclined to think that some poor desert survival decisions, maybe bad luck, resulted in his not reaching help. In survival school we were
always taught to hunker down in the heat of the day and walk at night. How many flashlights will be found in the car? Did he take them all with him?
And, what might it mean if he didn't leave with a flashlight?
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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Well, BajaGringo it sounds like DENNIS has nominated you to beat the bushes around San Quintin as being the most knowledgeable.
Let us know what you find from all your contacts!
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Bozo I love your ideas. I think it will do a lot of good investigating San Quintin. As far as Ice water, in 100 degree temperature it will turn
tepid within hours if not minutes, in fact starting out with a frozen bottle of water it will melt rapidly and get to the cool water you want. I
think we need to stop making sarcastic references to body parts, etc. this is not a joke. Bozo the first part of this post is directed to you, not
the whole post. | Quote: | Originally posted by Justbozo
Well, BajaGringo it sounds like DENNIS has nominated you to beat the bushes around San Quintin as being the most knowledgeable.
Let us know what you find from all your contacts! |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I think we need to stop making sarcastic references to body parts, etc. this is not a joke.
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And, you were appointed director of conversation here by whom?
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Anyone over 40 in those conditions are targets for a stroke or heart attack, most people by the age of 20 have some hardening of the arteries and even
though they don't show symptoms put under sweltering heat conditions can cause catastrophes. | Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Don't you know alcohol dehydrates DENNIS? No one should ever be drinking and doing work out in the hot sun. Could cause an emboli to go the heart or
the brain and cause a heart attack or a stroke. |
You ignore the AC bar reference...just like everyone here is ignoring the mention of using a Cadaver Dog. They do have them down here.
Something else......diabetics, as well as others with debilitating infirmities, should remove themselves from the lineup. |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Justbozo
Well, BajaGringo it sounds like DENNIS has nominated you to beat the bushes around San Quintin as being the most knowledgeable.
Let us know what you find from all your contacts! |
No nomination from me. Only a recollection.
I'm sure you know about that which I speak, but if not, here's some bathroom reading for you:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=55094#pid6665...
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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It is good to prepare for heat but I have been in that area in mid-summer and it was cold and cloudy...the ocean influence goes quite a distance
inland sometimes so you might just get nice weather. Bring a sweathshirt, just in case. Much different than say, Catavina, which usually bakes.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15938
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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^^^yep!^^^
that's why I doubt Gary succumbed to heat!
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
^^^yep!^^^
that's why I doubt Gary succumbed to heat! |
Was down in the area in 2004 in July...surf was flat and we were freezing our arses off---we decided we'd rather suffer heat prostration then
hypothermia so we headed over to Bay of LA!
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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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JoeJustJoe
I agree with a search in the area of the 4 Runner but the conversation has been such that it was almost a forgone conclusion that he had to be there
because the 4 Runner was. It seems the anticipation level is running far too high.
It is all good that the area be well combed. You never know what people may know but not divulge without them being asked.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5862
Registered: 7-18-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
It is good to prepare for heat but I have been in that area in mid-summer and it was cold and cloudy...the ocean influence goes quite a distance
inland sometimes so you might just get nice weather. Bring a sweathshirt, just in case. Much different than say, Catavina, which usually bakes.
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Correcto Mexitron. We are talking 10 miles or less from the coast. Big difference from Catavina.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
It is good to prepare for heat but I have been in that area in mid-summer and it was cold and cloudy...the ocean influence goes quite a distance
inland sometimes so you might just get nice weather. Bring a sweathshirt, just in case. Much different than say, Catavina, which usually bakes.
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That's EXACTLY why I was asking about the distance from the coast. That area is not hot.
Another assumption by the good doc that is FALSE. Several of them in this thread already.
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