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jrbaja
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When there's hungry children
and no supplies for school
I find it somewhat annoying
Some think saving missions is cool
When these places came
Spreading "salvation" and disease
The inhabitants were innocent
Doing just as they pleased
They didn't have marriage
Pagan gods to be sure
The fanatics came in
and death was the cure
An entire population
with this new found religion
seeking riches and gold
Sure saved these "heathens"
at least from becoming old
So by preserving these relics
we are preserving the past
Perhaps Mother Nature
Didn't want them to last!
Poor construction although maybe true
Poor history, death, punishment and pain
This is what really went through
Maybe it's a better idea
To let them wash away in the rain
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Barry A.
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Without the preservation of history and culture, survival is meaningless.
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Bruce R Leech
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we should keep these things to remind us of the mistakes or ancestors made so we can avoid making the same in the present.
maybe we can feed a starving child also. If I could find one. every one is fat here in Mulege.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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jrbaja
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Without the preservation of history, we may learn the truth (at least in the u.s.).
Without the preservation of culture, you are absolutely correct.
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Without the preservation of history and culture, survival is meaningless. |
Spoken like a true social anthropologist. I doubt that starving people give a ratsass about history or culture... Just their next meal.
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Bruce R Leech
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where are all of the starving people in Baja Sur?
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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jrbaja
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I never said starving
but I did say hungry. And they are mostly in the remote fishing villages when there isn't any fish.
The good thing about the people of Baja is that they will never starve because they know how to survive.
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Bruce R Leech
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in our aria the hungriest kids are mine my god they are always hungry
the biggest problem in the fish camps here is they sell all the fish and buy sebritas and sodas for the kids to live on. they are not Hungry but they
have malnutrition out of ignorance. but every one is happy and fat.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Dave
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The point was:
Survival is what drives our species. If hungry, anyone would trade history and culture for a meal. Saying survival is meaningless if history and
culture is lost is elitist.
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Bruce R Leech
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yes you are right Dave but I don't think that is happening in Baja do you.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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jrbaja
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The real point was
was that if bored americans need to do their "dogooding" in a foreign country, wouldn't it be better to help the living people with things rather than
fumble around with ruins and a not so pretty past?
This is not meant as an attack on Jack Swords or his projects as I know he does a lot of good for the people. But, in my opinion, there are way
better ways of helping Baja, and the people that really need it. Like school supplies, medical supplies, safety gear, clothing, fish hooks, etc.
And Bruce, I also said "remote". No sabritas, no sodas, no Conasupa, no nada.
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Bruce R Leech
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I think both are important Jr.
But I wish you would tell us where this camp is with all these hungry kids and many people here will want to help them out. maybe even some sabritas.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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jrbaja
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Fish Camps
Bruce, there's a bunch of them on both sides of the peninsula. Many you need to get to by boat and the rest need a vary stout 4wd or a loco gringo in
a 2wd van.
There are also many places in the hills that don't benefit from the tourists as the resorts along the coast do. These places have been basically
ignored for all these years because tourists want beaches and getting to them as fast as they can.
Any of the communities between Punta Peque?a and Lopez Mateos or Puerto San Carlos and Todos Santos could use supplies. The whole stretch of
coastline between El Centenario and Agua Verde needs supplies.
All of the communities in the Sierra de la Giganta are lacking employment and supplies.
Most of the communities in the Sierra de la Laguna are lacking supplies and basically everywhere that doesn't benefit from tourism could use outside
assistance.
True, nobody is starving but, neither do they have paper, pencil or medicines and other important supplies.
For pictures of these areas, http://groups.msn.com/TheBajasBestGuidesPhotoAlbum
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Barry A.
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Wow, I have never been called an "elitist" before----I will have to ponder that one.
As JR said, "I did not say starving", only hungry. It goes without saying that "starving" pre-empts everything else. Still, when you back-off to just
"hungry", then I stand by my statement. Culture and History are what make "living" worth while, at least for me with my full belly.
I believe that both (culture-history, and a full belly) are important, and are not mutually exclusive, in life. To champion one without the other is a
mistake, IMHO.
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jrbaja
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I would have to ask
the Indigenous People what they think about preserving this sort of history. Oh wait, I can't!
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Bruce R Leech
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Jr I have been to most of those places many times and as a mater of fact most of my best Friends live there and I haven't seen hungry children in any
of the ones I have been too as a mater of fact some of the best meals I have ever had were with these people. if there are any specific ones that you
know of that have hungry kids please let me know and they wont be hungry any more.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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jrbaja
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And the school supplies
medicines and protective gear? Perhaps you saw something I missed in these places Bruce since most of your best friends live in them.
And it's true about the food, I have mentioned the cuisine in many of these places before and even made special trips to get it.
But, there are places in Baja where undernourishment is a fact of life. Which is why I started the trading program a few years back. Fruit to the
fishermen. Fish to the mountains. Cheeses and venado to the fruit growers.
Perhaps I should specify, hungry for what they are lacking.
And if you have actually spent time in these areas, you would already be aware of what they are lacking if you spent any time there.
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jrbaja
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Specifics for Bruce
La Florida, San Luis Gonzaga, San Pedro de la Presa, La Purificacion, Las Animas, Los Innocentes, El Oro, and many many more.
It's not that they don't have food, it's that they don't have balanced diets.
And they even have schools, they just don't have the supplies for them.
And they cut wood for work. Too bad so many are missing an eye from it.
And when you get done finding them on a map, maybe we could make a trip to say hi to your friends in these places.
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Skeet/Loreto
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JR
Please do not take the following defensive;
JR As you know I have been to most of the named places manytimes. I differ in you Idea of the Hungry in that they do not have a Balanced Diet, but JR
have you ever seen so many Happy People and children??
That is one of the Major reasons I contunied going to Baja, that people who had so Little were so Happy.
I see the same thing in the States now with Skinny Blonds who sure could use some Fattening up.
My idea has always been to let them live their Life as they see it, not as an American sees It.
Remember the Story about Chico from San Nicholas? I brought him Veggie Seeds to Plant. He responded why should I Plant a Garden?, When I am Hungry I
will go Fishing.
I applaud what you are trying to do, just differ in the manner and reasoning for doing what you think
you have to do.
Keep up the good work!
Skeet/Loreto
In God I Trust'
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Barry A.
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History is History----
JR
History is what it is-----and it should be preserved so that we have a frame of reference, don't you think?------What the indigenous people think
about that is really beside the point, isn't it?------we don't need any revisionists distorting what really happened in the past, or letting it fade
into obscurity, less we make the same mistakes over and over again.
Now as for your helping the folks; that is wonderful and I applaud you, and always have. Your the best!!!! I just think that the other stuff is also
important, and somebody wanting to preserve it is also to be applauded, IMHO.
I enjoy your posts, and respect what you are trying to do, (and apparently succeeding very well).
Everybody should contribute what they can, in their own special way, as able.
Having said all this, I have to tell you that I completely agree with Bruce and Skeet. I also have been to most of the places you mention multible
times, and they sure seem happy to uneducated me. However, maybe I am just blind, or an elitist insensitive guy, but the indigenous peoples that I
encountered in Baja 50 years ago sure seem to be more happy than their "lot" now. Ignorance was bliss?? But today they still seem relatively happy
and healthy, outside the Metro areas. Maybe I am kidding myself, tho.
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