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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64489
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Figures!
Nomads: A couple years ago my kids and I stayed at Casa Humfreville (then near Magic Mountain) for the Humfreville's huge Christmas party... I placed
a Viva Baja sticker on Mike's dumpster (to give it that 'Baja feeling')! Mike
noticed it the next day, after we left and had a great laugh... I heard.
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eli
Sure he and his wife kinda are always wishing for and know that when I finally do show, I will bring a load of staples mixed with a few goodies. Of
course, I always do, I think it is a ranchero owner kind of thing to do.
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Do your caretakers live on your property? Would it make a difference in the expectation that you, the Rancho owner, would bring staple items when you
come? Are the "staple" things for them, or the maintainence of the property?
I used to think that my lack of understanding of what was "proper" was that lack of knowledge of the intricacies of Mexican culture. But now I think
it's partly because I've never been a dueno (or even had a housekeeper, or gardener, etc).
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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oladulce,
My property caretaker and his wife live less than a km. of my property.
Taking food staples to my caretaker was born of memories from traveling with my father when I was a kid. To take a gift of food to a ranch we visited
was just something he always did, seemed practical as it was always a long way from town and much appreciated by the people who would always share
what ever they had to eat with us.
Than when I camped North of San Carlos in Sonora, I always remembered the rancher brought his caretakers stapes when he came for the morning milking,
again born of the practicality of his coming from town and them being stuck on the ranch without transportation.
Several times in the past, when ever I was invited by a rancher to visit his ranch, the family always took staples, including stuff like a big bag of
animal crackers, peanuts or a box of gamesa cookies to the caretakers.
In all these cases, the caretakers did live on the property.
Agua Caliente does have a few tiny stores. For sure Serafin and his family got along o.k. long before I came along with my ideas of what was "the
right thing to do". Originally, when I bought the property I did not take staples but I always took the family a treat.
I donno, one day after being invited yet again to his home for coffee, home made tortillas and ranch cheese, I decided that taking supplies as I had
remembered my father and the ranchers doing seemed like the right thing to do.
So, I just started doin it. I usually spend around $300 or $400 pesos with a quick stop at Chapitos as I leave Los Barriles for Agua Caliente. This
amount covers cooking oil, shorting, a bag of flour, 2 ks. of beans, rice, pasta, sugar, a couple of bags of coffee, maybe a can of Nido dry milk, 2
ks. of maseca, some onions, tomatoes, green chilies, maybe some yams, a box of gamesa cookies, small cans of veg- al, tomato sauce, some fruit like
pears or apples, make a can of fruit c-cktail, what catches my eye as I roll down the isle that I know they will appreciate. As I have been known to
go a full year without making the trip out to see them, this is not a huge endeavor on my part.
I always leave Serafin an extra $100 pesos, as we have an arrangement that if I don't arrive to pay him by the time he is due his wages, he has the
bus fare to make it to my office in Los Barriles, where my secretary take care of his wages for the few more months before I know I will get back,
always including another $100 pesos in case I don't. Of course, he prefers that I make the trip out with the goodies, when he gets paid in town, he
gets no extras.
I realize this is a very casual relationship for a piece of property that I don't have any use for, or more money to invest in. Before I left for
Oaxaca I made it out to see him, took his family staples, 2 rolls of sheep wire to mend the fence, paid him his wages up until Sept. 1st., left him
money to pay the water and my $20 pesos bi monthly cooperation with the neighbor for electricity for the one light bulb in the casita that I turn on
maybe once a year. I checked the property, which of course was as clean sweet and pristine as the day I bought it, only difference between than and
now is the trees are a whole lot bigger. Serafin takes great pride in his little (maybe 15 hour a week) job.
For me, well it is a cross I choose to carry, no one tells me I must continue in my endeavors there. Only My own conscious dictates that life has been
real kind to me, I live plenty well; therefore to pay Serafin, take care of his social security and take the food stuff to the family is just the
right thing for ME to do. I guess I always kind of saw it as my "church", what portion do the Mormon dictate to the temple? Well, I would rather pay
Serafin to keep my conscious clean, ni modo, cal a quien a su propio cruz, no.
Sorry this got way longer than I had intended, but now it is done and I see no reason to erase it.
[Edited on 6-4-2005 by Eli]
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Eli
Your dad, Don Jimmy, had it right as did my father-in-law. He/we had several friends on various ranches around Tecate and I always thought it was a
'law' that when you visited you took some sort of supplies. That is when I first learned that you do not admire anything a Mexican has or it will
become yours even if he/she can not really afford to part with it. I admired one of Lu Ann's cousins 5 star Stetson and it became mine even though
it was a couple of sizes to small. He went bareheaded for a few months. No, he was not a poor Mexican--I was the poor gringo in the family.
I don't think you picked up a cross--I chose to believe that you donned a halo!
Got a job (position) for me????
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Ah Bernie, Really and truly with my silly ideas, I am just another bozo on the bus. As to a job, you did yours and I expect well, you are due the
retirement you have. You wouldn't want to work for the pentence that I pay Serafin. Saludos, Sara
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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Thank you for taking the time to answer Eli.
We try to be perceptive about these cultural interactions but are often uncertain when it comes to proper gift giving, "bringing down things", or
bringing things as payment for work to be done. We've had some uncomfotable experiences with a couple of Ricardo- types that have left us leary.
What you describe sounds more like it stems from etiquette for rural living no matter what the country. This is something our dads didn't teach us
growing up in the suburbs.
It was very helpful. Thank you.
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PacO
Nomad
Posts: 173
Registered: 1-19-2005
Location: waiting for the sun
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I talked about this w/Mike recently and am undergoing a project of my own, although on a smaller scale. I talked w/many local folks about workers for
probably almost a year b4 I came to terms w/a worker..... no money upfront. Guy works slow and steady but it comes out right and I pay him when I see
him which is what he wants...... so, I guess what I am saying is, whatever your comfort level is works for you. I am comfortable setting the work in
motion w/my clear directive and paying for it at the end of the day.
As a sidenote, what does this thread have to do w/stickers? Maybe a sticker thread should be started so we can see who stuck what where.
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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PacO, good post, good thoughts. Each of us must deal with our own comfort level, what feels right for us.
Your comment about paying your worker at the end of each work day reminded me of a story that my dad use to love to tell about my step mother, Dona
Lupe. It has been awhile and my memory is not near as good as Don Jimmy's was, but it went more or less like this;
It seems that Dona Lupe did not feel in anyway comfortable with paying her gardener before his work for the day was completed. But the gardener felt
it was equally unfair to be asked to complete work with out good faith payment in advance. So, they worked out a system between them that on Monday,
Dona Lupe paid at the end of the day and when the gardner returned on Wednesday, he was paid before even lifting the rake. And so this trade off
successfully went on for many years until the loyal gardner died not long after my fathers own demise, of a broken heart some say, he loved my father
dearly as he did the roses he tended for Dad and Dona Lupe. Who was owed the day with the gardner checked out, well, I have no idea, never had the
heart to ask.
[Edited on 6-5-2005 by Eli]
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marla
Nomad
Posts: 287
Registered: 10-29-2003
Location: Long Beach
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Mike. If Ricardo ever solicts you for work again you should tell him you are sorry but you were bitten by a rattlesnake on the way to the bank and
then the policia took everything you had left when they left you staked to an anthill in the desert.
If a man walks in the woods for love of them half of each day, he is in danger of being regarded as a loafer. But if he spends his days as a
speculator, shearing off those woods and making the earth bald before her time, he is deemed an industrious and enterprising citizen. Henry David
Thoreau
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4baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1339
Registered: 9-4-2003
Location: morro bay ca
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go to town and pay for the materials upfront and have them deliverd too your project. count your material and have your worker allso make note of the
amount of material(400 block, 20 bags of cement, exc.) have a set price for labor(hourly or whole job) in wrighting before work begins and let them
know wether you pay at the end of the day or when project id done. BE THERE while the job is being done or you will not get what you want( there will
be lots of questions) and there may be problems down the road. allso they tend to not show up if they know that you will not be around. NEVER PAY FOR
A WHOLE JOB IN ADVANCE AS THE MONEY WILL BE USED FOR ANOTHER PRPOSE AND YOU MAY NEVER GET THE JOB DONE. allso if you must be away dureing construction
and need to leave money with a friend to pay for the job do not tell the workers who has the money. they will bug them daily for money for who nows
what and they dont need that crap. good luck
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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To Funny Marla, good a way to handle Ol Ricardo types as I can think of.
4baja, again, it is a comfort level kind of thing. There are lots of ways to go about building in Baja, and lots of different contractors who work at
different levels in order to full fill this dream. Sounds like you found the right builder for you.
When I was contracting, I wouldn't have touched a job where the owner bought the materials. My contracts always included a finished project, i.e. you
bought the house, what I spent on materials was my business.
I remember one time I had a client that hired an over-seer who immeditaly started counting the re-bar, I took the crew off until the dude was gone. We
went back to work and built a chingon beautiful house that is to this day is considered by many to be a principal show place in the East Cape. t was
built in 91- 92.
My company as always built to engineering specs and with specifications stating what we were responsible for and what not up the ying-yang. And I
would never consider breaking ground for less than one third of total cost of project up front, easily $100,000.00 DLLs. going in. We always finished
clean, with more than happy clients, and Me. The same holds true today, if anything my kids are better at it than I ever was, and the contracts are
more iron clad.
I believe that when you get into serious construction, it is a matter of trust with client and contractor a like. If you have to count the cement
sacks going in, you shoudn't be working with that person, because you don't trust them. Pero, ya sabes, in the end it is a comfort level kind of
thing, but not just for owner, for the builder also. A bad client can ruin ya, you know.
Saludos, Sara
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Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
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In my situation, I was doing some very basic work. All we needed was a bunch of cardon ribs and palm fronds. I was the major problem because I was
watching Ricardo?s living conditions with his family and wanted to help him/them discretely. Once I let my heart get in the way of my head the whole
deal fell into a fathomless pit. I taught Ricardo that he could burden me with his problems and he came to expect me to deal with them. Once I saw
he wasn?t reliable I should have confronted the situation, defined the rules, and held him to them.
But, sometimes, having to do all that is just too much. Sometimes all we want is to deal with someone who already understands the rules, who already
is working at out level and who we don?t have to ?talk down? to.
Now, having thought that out, I?ll not let sympathy allow me to cause problems that will eventually destroy a relationship. It won?t be easy though.
Many of us have a nature that just wants to help an innocent in any way we can. So I guess I?ll have to get better at determining who is innocent and
who is trying to take advantage.
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Debra
Super Nomad
Posts: 2101
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Port Orchard Wa./Bahia de Los Angeles BC
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Sorry "PacO" it was a funny memory and I answered a question......
I was there with many of the exchanges between Mike and "Ricardo" Knowing Mike as I feel I do (my perception) all the guy would have had to do was
be honest.....no BS, no stories, and Mike would have given him the shirt off of his back (sorry to "out" you Mike, LOL!) that is how Mike is with
people. I listened to the "BS" several times and the stories got more and more bizzare. When I told the story about the police beating "Ricardo" up
to someone we all trust in Bahia, his comment was "If they beat him up, it was probebly for some other (good) reason" Again, from someone I would
trust with my life (and have) .......We all learn the hard way I guess, thanks to Mike I get to learn the easy way.....I know who NOT to hire when
I'm begining my Baja project.
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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I have a friend here who does the same thing...promises to show up early.....(and never does) ... friend died, brakes failed, kid got sick, someone
borrowed tools ....the list goes on.....just like what you described....had him do some work for me and a 5 day job took 5 months....and never really
got done at that.....guess people in both countries are more alike than I thought.....
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4baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1339
Registered: 9-4-2003
Location: morro bay ca
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eli, you remind me of peter and his brother around the east cape who built great houses with quility and who were trust worthy, but we are in a area
with few contracters and low tourism and can not aford to throw money away. i believe me and my buddys have found the best method for the area to pay
these guys and they seem to agree to the terms. we have a few more jobs going on and will see.
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Opps, jeje, reading back, I did get a little carried away............ never mind, I was just having another Gilda Radner moment.
Truly wishing all and everyone the very best on your building projects, grande or small- how ever you wanna work it, your providing an honest days
work for someone and that is what it is really all about in the end- Oh yeah and full-filling a dream, if it be a palapa over a trailer or a manson in
Cabo, it's all legit and worthwhile in my book.
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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Mike,
Check your U2U.
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
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Paulina,
You, too.
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