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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
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Are some of us the *******s?
I have to laugh and shake my head with a smile. So hypocritical...us I mean. We, Norte Americans guilty of the same thing we have blamed immigrants
for-illegal immigration. Or maybe it is the media; that powerful machine of intense hype and the demand for immediacy of acknowledgement.
Hypocrisy is never without its brother Convenience. After all, we say not to do something but, do it ourselves when it is beneficial.
The first sign is in the name-Baja California literally, "lower California." Baja California, as it is widely known depending on what side of the
border you are on is a small peninsula of Mexico protruding from the lower border of California. It is only connected to Mexico in the upper portion
of the peninsula just north of San Felipe.
Americans are swallowing up land by the acre faster than they are available. And guess what, many Americans are living there illegally. Tired of high
North American, property taxes they commute across the border and go to work then return home to a Mexican dream house where everything is cheaper and
the law is more relaxed. There is an expression that beauty can be dangerous.
Now, what we claim what illegal immigrants are doing to this country we are doing the same in Mexico. We are living in their land; buying in their
stores; working in their communities. But, since there is a lot of money involved that makes it ok; human greed.
It is interesting to note that there are more US citizens living in Baja California than any other foreign country.
This would make an interesting discussion.
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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Me No
Banned
Posts: 444
Registered: 11-24-2003
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Ahhh, Here, a few weeks back I had given up on you. Now, I see you are human. Welcome to the outsiders club. Your post here is going to be flamed
by the coupers. I respect you for taking a stand though, and I am with you.
It's not just americans though. In the far south, It is the Canadians also.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Me No, Yankee has a 'got baja?' sticker on his rig... is he still in your outsiders club? 
Yankee, what you say in indisputable... Why would anyone think otherwise?
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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you are a master...
| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
I have to laugh and shake my head with a smile. So hypocritical...us I mean. We, Norte Americans guilty of the same thing we have blamed immigrants
for-illegal immigration. Or maybe it is the media; that powerful machine of intense hype and the demand for immediacy of acknowledgement.
Hypocrisy is never without its brother Convenience. After all, we say not to do something but, do it ourselves when it is beneficial.
The first sign is in the name-Baja California literally, "lower California." Baja California, as it is widely known depending on what side of the
border you are on is a small peninsula of Mexico protruding from the lower border of California. It is only connected to Mexico in the upper portion
of the peninsula just north of San Felipe.
Americans are swallowing up land by the acre faster than they are available. And guess what, many Americans are living there illegally. Tired of high
North American, property taxes they commute across the border and go to work then return home to a Mexican dream house where everything is cheaper and
the law is more relaxed. There is an expression that beauty can be dangerous.
Now, what we claim what illegal immigrants are doing to this country we are doing the same in Mexico. We are living in their land; buying in their
stores; working in their communities. But, since there is a lot of money involved that makes it ok; human greed.
It is interesting to note that there are more US citizens living in Baja California than any other foreign country.
This would make an interesting discussion. |
of stating the obvious
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Me No
Banned
Posts: 444
Registered: 11-24-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Me No, Yankee has a 'got baja?' sticker on his rig... is he still in your outsiders club?
Yankee, what you say in indisputable... Why would anyone think otherwise? |
Yes, You just made it official.
Master of the Obvious.
Wait. Thats my email. Moto@hotmail
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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A BIG Difference
I can't speak for anybody else, but EVERY trip I have ever made into Baja or Mainland Mexico, I have brought along a lot of money that got spent in
that country. I have also spent a lot of U.S. earned dollars in rent, construction, etc. I have never earned a penny from anyone in Mexico and I got
the proper documentation when told to by the Mexican authorities. I guess by that standard I can still "b-tch" about illegal immigration whenever I
feel like it, Right ?
I doubt that those guys climbing over or through the fence heading North are bringing much in the way of capital to "El Norte", although I've heard
that they do bring along some White powder now and then, adding to the economy (sort of).
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Me No
Banned
Posts: 444
Registered: 11-24-2003
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Bill, I don't think we are talking about the day/weekend tripers here. But plenty of Norte Americanos, choose to ignore certain imigration laws in
Mexico, just because they know they can save a few bucks. To be honest, it takes an effort to be in compliance. It is, without a doubt, easier to do
it the wrong way. Same as in the US.
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PacO
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Posts: 173
Registered: 1-19-2005
Location: waiting for the sun
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When you say "we" b-tch or complain about it maybe you should refrase that. The all inclusive thing is a bit old. Many people here in SoCal I know
understand the economics of the issue and, on top of that, who can blame a person that wants to work. The major difference is that immigrants to this
side send most of thier money home and in the other direction it is spent there.
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Roberto
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Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
It is interesting to note that there are more US citizens living in Baja California than any other foreign country.
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Just out of curiosity, where did you get that particular piece of information?
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
It is interesting to note that there are more US citizens living in Baja California than any other foreign country.
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Just out of curiosity, where did you get that particular piece of information? |
There are several International websites that carries good data reading.
www.escapeartist.com
www.theglobeandmail.com
www.iht.com/
That particular piece of information could had come from these sites (above) or the newspapers I read.
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
I can't speak for anybody else, but EVERY trip I have ever made into Baja or Mainland Mexico, I have brought along a lot of money that got spent in
that country. I have also spent a lot of U.S. earned dollars in rent, construction, etc. I have never earned a penny from anyone in Mexico and I got
the proper documentation when told to by the Mexican authorities. I guess by that standard I can still "b-tch" about illegal immigration whenever I
feel like it, Right ?
I doubt that those guys climbing over or through the fence heading North are bringing much in the way of capital to "El Norte", although I've heard
that they do bring along some White powder now and then, adding to the economy (sort of). |
Yes, a difference.
But the way I see it is that some argue against the changes in the United States caused by Mexican immigration (legal or illegal, you choose). Others
counter that arguement with a claim that the changes in Mexico (principly BC and BCS) resulting from the influx of Americans (again, legal or illegal,
you chose) are also detrimental.
So we have more money, and don't make direct demands on local services? We seem to be driving up real estate prices, closing off public access to
beaches, lowering the water tables for our golf courses...
We have a mixing of different cultural and economic entities going on here, on both sides of the border, causing changes on both sides, bringing good
and bad to both sides.
Perhaps we should concentrate on minimizing any negative impacts caused by our own decisions?
On second thought, naw! Lets insist those other guys cause all the problems, we bring nothing but goodness, light and prosperity to these poor
unfortunate souls.
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Mike Humfreville
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Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
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Whenever I enter an environment I want to have a positive impact. I didn't feel this way as a kid looking for a wild time on the streets of Ensenada,
but I certainly didn't want to do any harm.
Having spent a lifetime along the shores of the peninsula, I've become aware of the fragility of life, with the people there, the desert life, the sea
and the air. I want to observe and protect it.
Now, merging more permanently into a small Baja village, I want be part of things that happen there. I want to integrate into all things, the
environment, the social aspects, mostly within the local Mexican community, the few Americans too. I want to help improve the village infrastructure
and its economy.
I don't want to take more than I give. I want to give more than I take. I want to deal with those I respect and to have the respect of those that
deal with me. I want to fit as I deserve.
It's hard for me to sit back and listen to Americans complain about other Americans destroying Baja. I guess they're just basing their observations
on their own experiences and guilt? I don't share that guilt and thus I feel sorry for those that can only gripe about the ugly American when so many
of us are on the other side of the coin.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Well, Duh !
Originally posted by yankeeirishman
It is interesting to note that there are more US citizens living in Baja California than any other foreign country.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since Mexico is the only Third-World country that borders on the U.S., it would come as no surprise that there are more Americans living there.
To Me No:
I wasn't talking about day-tripping tourists either. I spend 75-80 % of the year in Baja and have had my FM3 probably as long as most of the Gringos
there. I've never considered it that much of a burden.
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Braulio
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Posts: 321
Registered: 11-7-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
It is interesting to note that there are more US citizens living in Baja California than any other foreign country.
|
Just out of curiosity, where did you get that particular piece of information? |
There are several International websites that carries good data reading.
www.escapeartist.com
www.theglobeandmail.com
www.iht.com/
That particular piece of information could had come from these sites (above) or the newspapers I read. |
Yankee - it could have? Maybe YOU should take the time to run down the source for us before stating it as fact.
Actually it's probably true. Many mexican residents of Baja California choose to give birth to their children in the US - in fact the majority of
mexicans I know in Mexicali who are able, travel to the US have the kids born in the US in order give them a better shot at becoming a US citizen down
the road. I'd like to see some statistics that filtered out US residents of BC that were actually raised in Mexico.
If you've been in the line entering the US on any workday morning you see primarily hispanics who are going to work in the US - many of these are US
citizens living in Mexico - but raised in Mexico.
I agree on some of your sentiments - but let's not confuse being good stewards of the land with simply living in an area that's so economically
depressed that the native residents can't develop things on their own.
In fact as a country I'd probably give Mexico a D- with regard to environmental stewardship - the main reason I supported NAFTA was because it made
Mexico follow stricter environmental laws.
[Edited on 6-11-2005 by Braulio]
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Braulio
| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
It is interesting to note that there are more US citizens living in Baja California than any other foreign country.
|
Just out of curiosity, where did you get that particular piece of information? |
There are several International websites that carries good data reading.
www.escapeartist.com
www.theglobeandmail.com
www.iht.com/
That particular piece of information could had come from these sites (above) or the newspapers I read. |
Yankee - it could have? Maybe YOU should take the time to run down the source for us before stating it as fact.
Actually it's probably true. Many mexican residents of Baja California choose to give birth to their children in the US - in fact the majority of
mexicans I know in Mexicali who are able, travel to the US have the kids born in the US in order give them a better shot at becoming a US citizen down
the road. I'd like to see some statistics that filtered out US residents of BC that were actually raised in Mexico.
If you've been in the line entering the US on any workday morning you see primarily hispanics who are going to work in the US - many of these are US
citizens living in Mexico - but raised in Mexico.
I agree on some of your sentiments - but let's not confuse being good stewards of the land with simply living in an area that's so economically
depressed that the native residents can't develop things on their own.
In fact as a country I'd probably give Mexico a D- with regard to environmental stewardship - the main reason I supported NAFTA was because it made
Mexico follow stricter environmental laws.
[Edited on 6-11-2005 by Braulio] |
"It could have? Maybe YOU should take the time to run down the source"
No I maybe shouldn?t Dude! You want me and everyone else here to give their sources every time we post something? Get real! My information comes with
research and reading concerning our investments we are involved with, in San Felipe. Anyone with general reading skills can access the Web, the local
library, a investment Firm, whatever?.for the same data that I have read in the pass. Your point of view (on said subject of the post) is respected by
others and me, and I wont ask you for confirming data of your post. Let?s not do the ol trolling stuff.
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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pokey
Nomad
Posts: 199
Registered: 5-20-2005
Location: ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: sun burned
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After my wife and I completed the nightmarish process of completing all the forms and meeting the financial requirements. She recieved a visa and
work permit valid for one year in the U.S. Shortly after we moved to the U.S she became a permanent resident which entitles her to live and work in
the U.S for ten years. Soon she'll meet the qualifications to be a naturalized citizen. Overall I'd say the U.S is fairly generous with it's
immigration policies.
So..... What did I get after marrying a Mexican citizen? Nada, zip, zero. There is no special spousal visa. I'm able to apply for the same
FM-crap that everyone else is able to apply for. In other words I can't work (legally) in Mexico, buy land in the restricted zone, vote, get a
drivers license, sign contracts. Basically I'm a F'n tourist. Even though my wife enjoys the legal rights of both countries, and my daughters are
both dual citizens.
I honestly believe that Congress should demand some reform of Mexican immigration law if we ( the U.S) are going to grant amnesty to the 10+million
illegal aliens in the U.S. What's good for the Goose is good for the gander. If the U.S grants permanent resident status to the spouses of U.S
citizens then Mexico should do the same. Seems like the right thing to do..
( And by the way, I'm all for the issuing of work visas for the people currently working without the proper papers in the U.S)
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Braulio
Nomad
Posts: 321
Registered: 11-7-2002
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Yankee - So in other words anyone can state anything as fact without any basis whatsoever.
Sure - makes sense to me dude.
Viva la ignorancia.
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Mexray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1016
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: California Delta
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Mood: Baja Time
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Pokey...well said!
I guess the 'few' that control the 'many' in Mexico don't want we foreigners crashing their 'party'...
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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pokey
Nomad
Posts: 199
Registered: 5-20-2005
Location: ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: sun burned
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I don't know how many nomads read the local mexican newspapers. But if you do, you know that the Mexican public is outraged over the real I.D act.
The thought of people having to be in the U.S legally in order to obtain a driving license is so offensive and absurd that they call us racist to have
even have suggested it.
This act allows states to issue driving privelage only licences so you can be in the U.S illegally and still obtain a drivers license. That seems
reasonable. What does Mexico offer the illegal immigrant in the way of drivers licenses? Nothing. If you don't have an FM-3 or better you can't
be issued a Mexican license. Thats the law.
The hypocrisy is overwhelming.
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honda tom
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Posts: 493
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: middle calif
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yankee, When I cross the border to visit Mexico, I drive through the lanes and see what color the light turns. I've got my tourist permit in hand, my
Mexico insurance policy in the glovebox, and my boat permit paid up. My wallet is full of cash and I've consulted with my amigos boards to make sure
I'm in compliance with the rules of the country I'm going to visit. Several years ago I got thrown from my bike and suffered a broken collar bone and
some ribs. Now this part might be a bit much for you to imagine, but...... I PAID THE DOCTOR BILL WITH CASH!!!! No hard working mexican had to pay a
dime because of my accident. On the other hand... the *******s, as you called them, are taking my tax dollars every day. So that should be enough
information to end this discussion, north to south.... pay your own way................south to north... the americans will pick up the tab.
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