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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Fish & Flowers
Flowers & Fish
O.k., so I must truly admit that in spite of the fact that some of the finest folks I know do it, I mean dear friends that I respect from the bottom
of my heart and would never want to offend; still, I can not grasp their joy of torturing and than releasing a fish.
With that in mind, I must consider when I came home the other day with a dozen fresh roses wrapped in newspaper. As I passed the gallery where my
Maestro works, I stopped in to say hi. His comment being, ?Ah, bringing home another batch of cadavers to rot in sadness in your room?? He shook his
head and continued; ?I cannot grasp the pleasure you receive watching flowers slowly die day by day on your burro top.?
I chuckle because we have had this conversation before; my reasoning being; the flowers have already been cut; some poor little Indian lady will eat
with dignity that day anyway, because of my 15 peso contribution. Besides, I love fresh cut flowers, their colors give life to my room, and yes, sigh,
I must admit, they brighten my day as they die away. Also, maybe in the case of roses anyway, the cutting of the flower is a form of pruning the bush.
At least, that is what I hope as I justify my weakness for fresh cut flowers.
In fin, I must say, I am really no different than the sports fisherman. I take pleasure from the pain of another living creatures pain, a sacrifice
has been made for my pure egotistical pleasing of my senses. As I can justify someone making a living, the petals will someday be recycled into the
earth or paper or something. So it is with the Marlin, my ex-son-in-law supports a wife and two kids taking Gringos out to fish. And how many other
fishermen do I know that support their families in this mode, the guys that fix the boats, the dispatcher, the hotel workers, gardeners, maids, cooks,
taxi drivers, beer and ice sellers, etc., etc. There is a huge industry supported by this barbaric act. Also, let?s say the Marlin doesn?t make it;
aren?t there all kinds of bottom feeders down there, trigger fish and crabs and just all kinds of little guys that are going to feast feliz on his
cadaver, as I surly hope some day they will on mine? In fin, again I am reminded, I am not in any position to critique my fellow man.
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Sara
Did you realize that your dad read one of my short stories about ducks and sent a challenge back to me to really write something from the stand point
of an animal. He liked my first cut on the Marlins but he still told me to use this vehicle to hone my writing skills and to try harder to get into
their heads and hearts. I still try and have a bunch of stuff that no other person will ever read. It is a fun exercise. I guess I will have to
work on a story from a cut flowers point of view.
I really believe that your maestro was just trying to be a shock jock. Ask him if he realizes that each time he mixes his paints that he is directly
killing living things and transforming them into things that he finds satisfying and ego fulfilling.
How his product must scream out when it is placed into the kiln. I'm sure that you can see where this could easily go so I will not follow that
course.
My wife raises orchids and we have found that the flowers quite often live longer if they are cut and placed in water.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Gypsy Jan
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In my heart,
I think that it makes a difference when we celebrate the life that intersects our own.
When you take cut flowers home and put them in water and honor their beauty, you give their life a meaning outside of their life on the plant.
When the fishermen use their skill to catch fish, and then release them, I think that they bond with the moment. They see something in that that they
don't see anywhere else in their lives.
Sara, I might also, be full of s***, but this is my take on the subject.
Regards, GJ
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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not a fair analogy
flowers are supposed to scatter their seeds through means like a stiff wind, hail, animals etc. etc. Maybe an urchin would be closer to a flower.
Guess what happened when divers smashed tens of thousands of sea urchins in an area of preservation.
A billfish' life and death struggle is nothing like a cut flower in a vase.
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Bedman
Senior Nomad
Posts: 523
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Location: Orange County, CA.
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Dear Eli,
The catching of fish, too is a way of "pruning the bush." Imagine the worlds oceans teaming with fish. Big, small, old and young, all part of the
"Bush." Consider the caught fish less capable of surviving than the others. The smarter, faster, stronger fish. The "bush" is better and will survive
longer with the only the best fish in the herd.
The survival of the fittest animal has been the law of the land eons beyond the emergence of man. Culling of the herds, by predators and natural
causes will continue till the skies darken and our world spins off into the universe. One replenishing the other for the good of all.
I have always enjoyed your perspective and views and hope to do so till I spin off into the universe.
As always,
Bedman
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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I enjoy all your prespectives in regard to this. It gives me something to chew on as I paint away the day.
Yes, Bernie, thanks for a little tidbit to throw back at El Maestro, a little debate with Armando in regard to the valdity of all life that we step
on and affect in our every action could be fun. We enjoy and learn from our discussions.
Honestly Sharksbaja, how can we judge who's life is more valid, be it a microbe, a flower, a fish, a tiger or a human. I am sure I am not in the
position to compare.
Meanwhile, I am off to the market for my juice, hope I find some beautiful roses today, that would be nice.
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Pappy Jon
Nomad
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Location: Wrong side of the Continental divide.
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Mood: Temp rising.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
When you take cut flowers home and put them in water and honor their beauty, you give their life a meaning outside of their life on the plant.
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A coworker and I debate this all the time. I prefer hybrid tea roses because they make good cut flowers for inside the house. He prefers floribundas
because they look good on the plant. He could care less about brightening up his house.
To each their own.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 2-2-2003
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"When the fishermen use their skill to catch fish,"
There is very little "skill" involved when you charter a boat out of eastcape or los cabos. That's why they spend all that money to do it. I could
probably even catch one!
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Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
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Eli...
Everything on Earth is involved in your cycle. Some of it?s sweet, and some of it?s sad. And as many on your thread have stated in one way or
another, nothing goes to waste.
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
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Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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I know Mike, in the end, I expect there is a purpose for all even though sometimes I have a real hard time swallowing it, you know stuff like war, and
world hunger, argh......... doesn't make a whole lot of sence, but it's been there everysince humankind, I expect, won't go away just for me wishing
it would.
Undoubtly, we can never make all the people happy all the time, I did go buy my roses the other morning. I bought from a little ol lady that sits
across from another little ol lady, they both sell roses. I make my decision by which of them has the most beautiful freshest roses that day. One is
always happy with her sale, the other looks on me in disappointment, like she has been betrayed, can't be helped, I can only buy so many roses at a
time. Still, there is a saddness there, like I said, can't be helped.
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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All good points Whistler, like I said the list of why to, and why not to can go on forever.
Me personally, I just plain don't like to fish, just like lots of folks don't like to paint, but I do. Still, got to admit, I sure do love to eat
fish, yum, yum, that I do miss.
Although today I ate those flying ants that come out after the rains, they were cooked in a sauce on chicken, found it quite good actually. I would
say that that was broadening my hortizons enough for one day. And that really, really takes us off the original intent of the thread, ah well.......
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Great idea Sally
"Sport Anting" I think it will be a while before that species becomes endangered!
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Well J.R., I got to give it to you, you did find a way to get my ant eating back on the original subject line. No, I don't think we are going to get
them on the endangered species list. Good tasty protien though.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Carol says
Yuck!
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
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Location: Sunset Beach
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Sara/JR
A hundred years ago I was charged with having lunch once a month with the Mexican Immigration guys at the Tijuana border. We would go to a different
Mexican Restaurant every month to sample the different cuisine?s of Mexico. I kept hearing them refer to a guy who was very short and stocky as the
?Ant Man?.----You guessed it he was from Oaxaca. They would all kid him about eating barbecued ants.
One day he brought a mess of them and showed us how they were cooked and how healthy they were to eat---these were not flying guys?they were
huge?almost a big as the lobsters that they serve the tourists in Puerto Nuevo these days.
Anyway your posts made me dredge up this old story from long ago. They were not bad---but I would rather gather my protein elsewhere. Thanks for the
memory?s
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
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Sara - pls email me
is your construction co. still available? we are looking at a multi lot parcel close to los barriles and we'll need a local contractor as well as
architect.
thx! i would love to be doing Biz with Jimmy's family of course!
info @ comanchebuilders dot com
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
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Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eli
Honestly Sharksbaja, how can we judge who's life is more valid, be it a microbe, a flower, a fish, a tiger or a human. I am sure I am not in the
position to compare.
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are there really any people out there that would not pick human from your choices above. and if so why.
Eli this is a subject that really interests me from both sides because it seems to me that it involves allot of choices. and it boils down to where
you draw the line. every human must Kill to stay alive but most of us will not kill some species to survive.
where do we draw the line?
I think I would kill anything short of a human to feed my hungry children. and I would even kill a human if it were threatening the lives of my
children. I don't no for sure. I hope I never get tested on these terrible things
I hope we can git lots of feedback on this
[Edited on 6-26-2005 by Bruce R Leech]
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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capt. mike
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thx Sara!
got your note! - this will be an exciting thang!!
can't wait!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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What I meant to say....
instead of...
"A billfish' life and death struggle is nothing like a cut flower in a vase"
it should have read "A billfishes stuggle with life and death"
as in regard to all animals including us.
Thanks Whistler, that tourney and it's people ARE people with a conscience and there IS much care given in the sport these days. It is nice the sport
attractes the mega-buck.
I still wanna see those dissolving hooks ya got down there!
Bruce, with mans evolving state of survival it seems a moot subject to really discuss the decision to take a life be it a plant or an animal. We
(spoiled Americans) for instance have the biggest breadbasket on the planet. Aside from people who really have to kill to survive, us gringos,
theoretically, do not need to hunt or gather. Because that's what you do/can do at Safeway. Problem is, the mass-produced food items are becoming less
and less healthy while pretending to be the other way around. I'd rather eat a nasturtium than half the crap the stores sell nowdays
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Bruce, There are many different perspectives within myself from which I could address your question, truly your comment provokes enough ideas to write
a short book on the subject:
From a member of the cosmo's perspective, I believe that we are all one, every microb, every fish, human, rock, piece of sand, chicken, star, you name
it, it is me and I am it, I am one with the universe. I have no right to judge value of life, and I am grateful that I don't, that is not a job I
would want.
From a plain ol humanbein perspective; I have an ego, I have delt with anger and loose. Yes, I have known a few folks that I would trade their life
for that of my dog, easily. Again, I am glad I am not in the seat that decides.
I have lived a basically protected life. I have never been to war, I have never had to kill anyone or watch a friend be killed. I cannot judge people
who have done so. I do see the nightmares they live with, I feel complete compassion for them, I am so glad I never had to go there.
I love to eat beef, if I had to kill the cow in order to do it, would I? I doubt it, if there was an alternative food available, I really don't want
the red meat bad enough to go thru the pain of eye on eye contact with the cow as she goes down. On the other hand, I have fished, and I have killed
chickens, but I would really rather not. I salute the butchers, the fishermen, the kind soul who grows and harvests my beans and corn, the fruit
picker. The harvesters, the people who put my food on the table, they deal with taking life so I may consume it. I truly thank them for this gift of
making my life so easy.
There have been times in my life where if I had the power, yes, I would trade a life, even including that of my own for another. I thank the powers
that be that is not my role to judge and decide who will be sick and die, who will get blown up tomorrow, I do not need to defend my grand children
from you or any one in Baja. Yes, I am ever go greatful for all the years of peace I have known living in Baja, it has been a wonderful gentle life
for the most part. I am so glad, I don't have to deal with these decisions, and hope I never ever will.
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