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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
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More on Graffitti
This turned into such a battle before, (hit search, type graffitti) that I think it's worth discussing again.
No David, I don't have pictures of Mexicans spray painting rocks. But I do have pictures of gringos painting rocks. In a posted Mexican
biosphere/reserve. Kind of ironic when you consider I was meeting with PROFEPA to again discuss solutions to issues concerning litter, graffitti,
cave protection, etc. on the same trip as when those photos were taken.
And I deal with solutions. Fines, signs, vigilance by locals, weekly cleanups, graffitti removal and education is the direction this whole thing is
going. PROFEPA is now providing education and credentials to the locals to assist with these problems.
And the schools down here are also stressing the importance of a clean environment. As I have said before, there is a huge difference in the
attitudes of most Mexicans when it comes to trash and graffitti nowadays. That's because they are realizing what they have and the education and
credentials they are now receiving. 
As far as percentages go, I would say that you are underestimating the amount of graffitti done by the Mexicans. The difference is, their inferior
education system seems to work. They are learning.
Now, when some huge gringo corporation comes in, with all their money, higher education, cool stuff, and does something like paint up a national
park, these folks down here get a little upset. I was with a bunch when it happened and they were peeed! And, so was I.
There is no excuse for this and you trying to justify it by your stupid comparisons is ridiculous. And, it's time to see what can be done about it.
Maybe BFG can now give something back to Mexico besides a bunch of beer sales and drunken race fans.
And by the way, that BFG graffitti is in many places along the course. Plastic signs? Could be used as collectors items
Buy em books, send em to school, what do they do? Paint the rocks! And some of
you wonder why the gringos have such a "shining " reputation.
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Big Al
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Painted ROCKS
I was just through Catavina a couple weeks ago and saw a large rock with a Tecate sign painted on it. The billboard sales must sell space to the
locals as well.
Head down to the interior of Mexico, Morelos area, and graffitti is everywhere there as well. Probably done 100% by the locals. It is a trend, an
ugly one, that is all over the place.
Big Al
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Sharksbaja
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Ouch! That stings! You, me and a zillion others feel the same way. Their(BFG) disregard for property illustrates a mindset that a disproportionate
amount of Americans seem to feel about the land we visit as guests. Growing up in So.Cal. gave me a mixed perspective. Seeing grafitti adorning
buildings was very common and still is. We made many trips to the mountains and I was always put-off by the painting I would see in places like the
Kern River or the Mojave Desert.
I always wondered what types of "low-lifes" would deface mother natures work. I wonder why these idiots think it is ok in Mexico? Do they look at
Mexico as an uncaring, anything goes type of place? Yes. Thanks for reminding us how our so called "brothers" behave.
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Mike Supino
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Missing photo
Jr,
What happened to the photo that you posted on the Off Road forum?
I only had a chance to glance at it.
From what I remember from that glimpse was that the vehicle looked like a BMW or Mercedes SUV.
Will you re-post the photo?
Therianthropic
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Big Al
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Let's be real
Graffitti is an ugly fad. Unfortunatley, many American fads will catch on in Mexico after a slight delay. This one has caught on in full force. It
is everywhere in the interior area, in and around Mexico DF. In over 20 years I have not seen it this bad before. It is painted over and comes back.
Seems to be worse in the poorer areas. My in-laws exterior wall is tagged every couple weeks and gets expensive to paint over.
Part of the problem is the government and business has institutionalized it. Political candidates as well as Coke, Tecate, and others paint
edvertisements on walls EVERYWHERE. They often get permission. A mayorial candidate got permission from my in-laws to paint there wall and did so.
This is where the problem lies. These advertisements are not regulated by zoning laws or any other kind of municipal codes. If it were on a
billboard it would be easy to control. Therefore, the world is ones canvas. It makes no difference if it is commercial advertising or tagging, it
still looks like graffitti to me, but if someone is going to mark up my walls I would rather be paid for it.
Blame the Americans or blame the corporations if it makes you feel better. Some people just love to hate us yanks and especially "greedy
corporations". However, this blameing will not solve the problem. It will have to be a reprogramming of the youth within the country. It is very
much like the litter problem in Mexico. If your parents didn't teach you it is wrong, than the trash can is the closest open window in your car.
Big Al
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Barry A.
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Mood: optimistic
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Just back from Italy------
and the graffiti problem in Rome was discraceful, especially when you get out of the main tourist area where the government does it's best to erase it
as fast as it is put up. It was also very bad in the cities of Sicily, but not as bad in Tuscany (Florence and Sienna and Lucca). 98% of the grafitti
seen in Italy was pointless, and beyond even conveying a message.
Big Al is right----this is a world-wide happening, not just a USA/Mexico problem. There are pin-heads all over the world that are very unhappy, and
they want others to be unhappy also, and have no respect for anything, apparently.
I wish I had the answers, but I don't.
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bajaruby
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Yah know,
I really don't care for the advertisment graffiti, but to be driving along and see a frog or a dinasor(sp), or something that the people, (I assume
mexican), have taken the time and saw something in a rock as they drove by, walked by or what ever, seems to make mexico what I like about mexico.
Sure, I don't think that every rock and every formation should have paint on it, but I think, and my opinon only, driving a long stretch of road and
to see something someone else has seen in their mind, before the painting began, makes for a little smile on our faces. HEY, it's mexico and if it
wasn't what it is, then why do we love it so much?
AMERICANS should most definitely be band from this. It is not their culture, it is theirs.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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I blame BFG
for what BFG did or allowed to happen. Pretty simple to me!
"Blame the Americans or blame the corporations if it makes you feel better. Some people just love to hate us yanks and especially "greedy
corporations". However, this blameing will not solve the problem. It will have to be a reprogramming of the youth within the country. It is very much
like the litter problem in Mexico. If your parents didn't teach you it is wrong, than the trash can is the closest open window in your car."
I think perhaps you should re read my post. I may have mentioned something like that in there.
But, when you have been trying to teach these people about not breaking their beer bottles, heaving their trash, tagging, and some gringo
corporation comes down here and sets an example such as this, yes I do place blame. Especially considering the amount of money they put into printing
stuff. Plastic signs are too difficult?
Pahleeeeeze!
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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I wonder what would happen
If BFG spray painted an ad on half dome. Or within any other national park boundary.
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Me No
Banned
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JR, from and american perspective, you couldn't be more right about the Graffiti from the BFG painters and others in the off-road world. However,
Mexicans don't seem to give two pesos about graffiti. I am sure many do, but the amount of spray paint on the rocks in the Catavina area makes me
believe that every vehicle down there travels with a few cans in the trunk.
If you really wont to make a difference, I suggest you send your picture to BFG, along with a link to this thread, and see if you get any results.
The next stop could be the baja department of tourism, and even Sal Fish. Racers need to be made aware that the use of spray paint in any form will
not be tolerated. I'm sure many of us have seen the big BFG marks sprayed on the black top as well, not quite as bad as painting something natural,
but it still shows a lack of respect and arrogence.
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MrBillM
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Graffiti Garbage
I once sent a Letter to the Editor of the Palm Springs Desert Sun commenting on the various proposals they were considering to deal with Graffiti
Artists. My suggestion was a trained long-distance sniper using a Night Vision Telescopic Sight. Stake out known graffiti areas and wait for one of
these slime to begin work, then reach out and touch him (or her). Do it enough and the thought of being whacked in the dark from a distance might
deter this garbage.
Interestingly, they published the letter. Even more interesting was that the only responses were Positive.
Back when I kept my Sailboat on a Mooring off of Coronado in San Diego Bay, I would see the park adjacent to the mooring area invaded on the weekends
by Third-Worlders from across the bay. By the time the weekend finished, every public building in and adjacent to that area was plastered with
Graffiti. I once stopped to talk with the Supervisor of the crew painting over the crap and he said he had a five-man crew that worked all week round
covering this stuff up in one of the Richest areas around.
This Human Detritus will not be stopped by education or any other touchy-feely solution. They understand only pain and punishment.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
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Hey Bill
are you looking for work?
And are you by any chance related to Judge Roy Bean?
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Me No
Banned
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Registered: 11-24-2003
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Mr. Bill. I like you. Now tell us how you REALLY feel.
However, on the grand social scale, I don't think graffiti is a capitol offence.
Probably, we will have to try something else.
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
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Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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aww lighten up...
you old fuddy-duddys...its only graffiti,it wont kill you and its been around since the beginning of time...most people like to leave their mark and
some in a huge way...i've gotta say it really doesnt bother me at all,in fact i kinda like it
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PacO
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I know for a fact that if I catch the little bonehead who graffitied in my alley and on my fence that he is going to meet the 5 of clubs.
Back to the original thread; corporations that have a healthy profit margin have no excusesto not lead by example and not the bottom line.
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
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i knew a guy that used to complain alot...
bad things happened to him all the time...but he was kind of an a**hole so i figured he deserved it....end of story
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Helping Darwin
My preferred solution would have the added advantage of removing from the Gene Pool those whose only influence in society is negative.
It is extremely unlikely that we would be whacking any future scientists, doctors etc., only those who will be a strain on our penal system for the
rest of their miserable lives.
JR - Back when I was younger, stronger and with better reflexes and eyesight, it is a job that I would LOVE to perform. It's the kind of public
service employment that could put a smile on your face every day.
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yankeeirishman
Banned
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Graffittees hunting tags should be issued for each season. Make nice trophies on the living room wall.....
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Bill
We seem to have a lot in common despite our differences.
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Mexray
Super Nomad
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Location: California Delta
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Jr...
...I agree with many of your comments on this 'tagging' subject matter...however, I don't think we can assume or directly blame BFG (the corporation)
for the actions of a couple of it's nit-whited 'employees' or 'hired hands' for the race event. I'm sure BFG doesn't condone this kind of behavior of
it's employees and would take direct action if made aware.
It was hard to tell from your original picture, but the 'taggers' looked a bit 'Latino' to me...could it be possible that these were Mexican employees
of BFG? Was the vehicle they were driving from the US, or did it have 'Baja' plates?
It doesn't make the 'act' any less disgusting, but it would be nice to know the 'rest' of the story.
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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