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2frogs
Junior Nomad
Posts: 59
Registered: 7-27-2005
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Mood: curious
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I've never understood water shortages with living on the ocean????
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bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
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As a Washingtonian who has never lost my native-born-and-raised privileges, I hereby give my permission to channel half the Columbia's output to
Baja, provided half the river's red salmon [wild, not pen-fed] are included in it.
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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reading Graham Mackintosh "Into a desert place"
the guy runs out of water so he boils seawater and collects the evaporated steam which turns into regular drinkable water and saves himself from dying
of thirst...maybe they could do that on some sort of grand scale for desert areas close to the ocean
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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Like running a still ???
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalera
As a Washingtonian who has never lost my native-born-and-raised privileges, I hereby give my permission to channel half the Columbia's output to
Baja, provided half the river's red salmon [wild, not pen-fed] are included in it. |
Are there some left?
Not a great year I'm afraid.
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Yep, 2frogs, got a shacel full of dreams, who knows which one I will pull out next. But, going back for a brief visit to Guyamas is in there, who
knows, maybe someday.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Lots of Pie in that Sky
Having gone up to the mountains for a couple of days, I see I haven't missed a lot, but these pie-in-the-sky water solutions are certainly good for a
few laughs.
There is ZERO chance that ANY water from the Pacific Northwest or Canada will EVER be sold to Baja California. The future need for water here in the
Western U.S. will not even be satisfied and the U.S. Congress would never allow any scheme that would send water south of the border. Any
Representative from a western state who would vote for such a proposal would be defeated, if not recalled.
Forgetting the political considerations, I wonder how Skeet's Canadian plan would work. Does not the Colorado River originate in the Colorado Rockies
? That's a bit of a distance from the Canadian border.
Those solar stills mentioned have been around for a long, long time. During WWII, they were included in military survival supplies. Obviously, they
aren't efficient enough to use on a large-scale basis OR someone would be using them. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States utilize huge salt water
conversion faciilities, but they aren't using that concept.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Bill m; Look at the map above
GLen Canyon and the connections which have already been made.
Canada Sells Water to mexico/ Canada ships water via Glen Canyon, Lake Mead, which is used to produce Electric Power; Water then goes to mexico
skeet
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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2frogs
Junior Nomad
Posts: 59
Registered: 7-27-2005
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Mood: curious
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Whoa....well, I like the still idea...Okay....splain to me how Catalina Island
can do it but Baja can'tI'm just tossing out questions here because it
really puzzles me that in this day and age we have not solved these fuel and water issues. Or I should say it makes me mad that it stands in the
way. We're surrounded by it
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Dos Ranas
The discussion referenced "Solar Stills". Catalina Island doesn't. The primary method of saltwater to freshwater conversion is reverse osmosis. The
costs are substantial. In Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. those costs are meaningless. Catalina Island is also some pretty expensive real estate.
One cost breakdown from the World Bank as of 1996 that I saw quoted operational costs of water production at $1.60 to $2.70 per cubic meter (220
Gals). Construction and maintenance costs not included would be in the millions or tens of millions for a significant facility. Desalinization at a
tourist resort might be feasible, but not for the average Mex or Gringo.
Large scale desalinization facilities have been considered and rejected by numerous major cities in the U.S. due to the costs involved.
As for Skeetster's Canadian fantasy, I haven't looked at the map, but I am skeptical. Regardless of his assertions, the idea that the U.S. would
allow transshipment is ludicrous. It will NEVER happen. He is right that we allow water to flow into Mexico via the Colorado as required by
International law, but we don't give them a gallon more than those treaties require, at least not intentionally.
An additional consideration for large-scale desalinization projects is disposal of the salt brine.
[Edited on 9-16-2005 by MrBillM]
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Heres' why....
| Quote: | Originally posted by 2frogs
Whoa....well, I like the still idea...Okay....splain to me how Catalina Island
can do it but Baja can't? |
----------
HON. ELTON GALLEGLY
in the House of Representatives
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 10, 1991
Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to salute the new Hamilton Cove desalination plant, which has begun providing freshwater to my constituents on
Catalina Island. Not only is the plant the first on the West Coast that converts seawater into drinking water, it also represents an unprecedented
partnership between public and private interests.
At a cost of $3 million, the plant provides 132,000 gallons of freshwater a day, almost one-third of the island's annual water consumption. Because
Catalina Island has been particularly hard hit by California's drought, this plant is especially welcome.
I am also pleased that it was built as a joint venture by a private developer, the Whitehawk Partnership, and a public utility, Southern California
Edison. By building the plant, Whitehawk was able to build its Hamilton Cove development, and the residents of Catalina Island now have a crucial
source of water to help meet their needs during dry periods such as this.
In addition, the reverse osmosis technology used at Hamilton Cove may prove invaluable to mainland Californians in the future as many communities are
considering building desalination plants to help meet their water needs.
Mr. Speaker, I ask my colleagues to join me in saluting the Whitehawk Partnership and Southern California Edison for working together for their
community"
-------
It really helps to have politicians and mega corps in on it. In todays dollars adjusted, a small desalinator would probably run 7-10 million but
factor in the installation, maintenance and fuel cost(Catalina runs on deisel) to power it and the costs become cost prohibitive I would imagine
It sure looks good on paper though.
----------------
How' this sound?:
It seems to me the water from evaporation from the Guererro negro salt works would equal a large sum if it could be collected as condensates. Also
incorporate photovoltaic panels. The Japanese(sic) could do it, they love that repetitive large scale operation stuff.
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2frogs
Junior Nomad
Posts: 59
Registered: 7-27-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: curious
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I knew that Catalina wasn't running a still Ha! Ha! And thank you for the
rest of the information as I learned a lot. I'm stubborn and still think we should have these problems solved by now and that it could be politics?
Call me crazy. I liked what I read in the House of Rep. article. Maybe it hits close to home as we are on water rations every year
as our water flows down stream.  Take it easy, all this talk about water made me
thirsty.
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bajaden
Nomad
Posts: 496
Registered: 4-7-2005
Location: Ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: vicarious
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This is way too serious for me. My brain, whats left of it is hurting. People are running stills with solor power. Salmon are going to travel from
Oregon to baja via some imaginary canal from the Columbia river. Hell, why don't we divert the missippi while were at it. Lets float some icebergs
down to keep the salmon cool. Im sorry. I don't mean to make light of all this. I've probably had too much to drink. Two glasses of milk and a few
mangos will make anyone delusional.
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bajaden
Nomad
Posts: 496
Registered: 4-7-2005
Location: Ensenada
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Mood: vicarious
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Thats what I get for not reading what I wrote. Heavens, I'm from Missouri. Its Mississippi. Spent many a day fishing on that river.
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2frogs
Junior Nomad
Posts: 59
Registered: 7-27-2005
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Mood: curious
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That explains it....the show me state  Just teasin' I used to live in a marina out of St. Charles, Mo. Did lots of fishin' myself.
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Bedman
Senior Nomad
Posts: 523
Registered: 9-4-2002
Location: Orange County, CA.
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Water Makers/Desal Devices are available....
West Marine has one for aboats that produces 160 gallons per day..
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductD...
PowerSurvivor 160E Watermaker
The PowerSurvivor 160E is a great choice for boaters who have larger demands for water but still want the compactness, simplicity, and reliability
PUR units are known for. Just slightly larger than the model 80E, the 160E produces nearly twice the water at 6.7 GPH. Less complicated than
comparable watermakers, the 160E means a lot of water with minimum attention and hassle.
? Weighs 36 lbs
? Limited 3-year warranty
? Flow Rate: 6.7gph, 160 gal./day max
? Running Draw: 18A@12V DC
? Ports: 1/2"ID inlet, 1/2"ID brine outlet, 1/4"ID product water
? Dimensions: Motor/Pump?13.5"W x 17.5"D x 6.5"H
? Membrane?25"L x 3.5"dia
Bedman
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Water Problems
There is another problem looming in the future.
the San Joaquin River in Central- Calif A Trial is set to Start to force Water back into the river so that a few Salmon may Return.
Unless something is done to solve the Problem anywhere people are going to "Group Up" there will be future problems such as the San Joaquin.
It might be interesting to do a back Ground on the Failed De-Salt Plant that was started in Los Bocanas on the pacific Side of Baja.
I think a German company was involved.
Why a De Salt Plant at that location??
Skeet
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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wow a desalt mechine for about $4000 that makes 160 gal a day
thats cheep a city water hook up in podunk oregon with a water meter is more then that and the bill comes every month with solor panals and
batteries sounds like its feasable to me now and it can open up a lot of places that werent befor have a good one jerry
jerry and judi
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Power Survivor
Back when I kept my sailboat in San Diego Bay, I once met a cruiser who went South each November. He had a Power Survivor on board and loved it,
especially when in the Sea of Cortez, BUT he noted that it was a very expensive way to make water. The frequency of maintenance required, including
the cost of the maintenance kit (membrane, etc), was substantial for the amount of water produced.
About ten years ago (or so), a Japanese guy set the world record for the smallest boat ( 5' LOA) to cross the Pacific and he used the smallest of the
Survivor line, a manual unit, to supply the required Fresh Water on the voyage.
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