| Pages:
1
2
3 |
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Guyacuros & Jesuits
The Guaycuros, Jesuit Missionaries, and Jose de Galvez: The Failure of Spanish Policy in Baja California
Robert H. Jackson
Abstract: Between 1697 and 1767/1768, the Jesuits administered missions in the arid Baja California Peninsula. Because of the limited potential for
agriculture on the Peninsula, the Jesuits had to import food from neighboring provinces, and allowed a large part of the mission populations to live
in settlements separate from the central mission village, and to support themselves by hunting and collecting wild plant foods. Following the Jesuit
expulsion Jose de Galvez attempted to reorganize the missions, and shifted indigenous populations to missions with greater agricultural potential.
This essay examines the response of the Guaycuros,, one of the indigenous groups in the Peninsula, to Galvez?s policy.
Entre los anos 1697 y 1767/1768, los jesuitas administraban misiones en Baja California. A cause de la limitada potencia de agricultura en la
peninsula, los jesuitas importaban comida de provincias vecinas, y permetia a los neofitos permanecer en aldeas separadas de la cabecera de la mision,
donde se mantenia por la caza y explotando plantas silvestres. Despues de la expulsion de los jesuitas, Jose de Galvez trato de reorganizer las
misiones, trasladando poblaciones indigenas a misiones con mas potencia de agricultura. Este ensayo examina las respuesta de los Guaycuros, uno de los
grupos indigenas en la peninsula, a la politica de Galvez.
The Guaycurosa, Jesuit Missionaries, and Jose de Galvez: The Failure of Spanish Policy in Baja California
In 1697, a band of Jesuits and soldiers arrived at a site called Concho, and established Nuestra Senora de Loreto mission. In the weeks following the
founding of the mission the local natives attacked the small outpost, but failed to dislodge the incipient colony. The Spanish Crown had funded an
aborted colony in the arid Baja California Peninsula in the mid-1680s, but then had decided to no longer attempt to colonize the Peninsula. Jesuit
Juan Maria Salvatierra petitioned the royal government for permission for the Jesuits to establish missions at their own expense, which was granted.
Over the next two decades the Jesuits established more missions in Baja California, and consolidated their presence in the districts surrounding
Loreto.
In 1720, the Jesuits expanded south into the Magdalena Desert and the Cape Region that surrounds La Paz, the site of an aborted colony established in
the 1530s by Hernan Cortes. The term Guaycuros designates a linguistic group that inhabited the arid Magdalena Desert that stretches between Loreto on
the north and La Paz on the south. The Guaycuros were nomadic hunters and gatherers who lived in bands of related families, and generally occupied a
clearly defined territory within which they collected food. The Jesuits generally denigrated the Guaycura for their dietary habits (Baegert 1952).
In the 1720s and 1730s, the Jesuits established six missions among the native peoples of the southern Cape region and the Magdalena Desert region. In
the far south of the Peninsula the Jesuits encountered a relatively wetter climate that supported agriculture, including more specialized crops such
as sugar cane. Moreover, with the establishment of San Jose del Cabo mission in 1730, there was a strategically located settlement that could supply
fresh water and provisions to the Manila Galleon that coasted Baja California on its return voyage from Manila to Acapulco on the Pacific Coast of
Mexico. The colonial government had pressed the Jesuits for several decades to find a safe port for the Galleon to stop on the long voyage from Manila
to Acapulco. The strongest resistance to the new colonial order occurred in the south with uprisings in October of 1734 and again in the early 1740s.
Rebels in 1734 killed Jesuit missionaries Lorenzo Carranco and Nicolas Tamaral, and also ambushed the second galleon to stop at San Jose del Cabo.
(Burrus 1984: 104-109). The Jesuits attributed the resistance of the natives to their capricious nature, and to the presence of natives of mixed
European-indigenous ancestry, the progeny of pearly fishermen and corsairs who had coasted the pearl beds off of the Peninsula for decades.
In 1721, missionary Clemente Guillen, S.J., established a mission known as Dolores del Sur at a site roughly half way between Loreto and La Paz among
the Guaicuros. Guillen had been stationed at San Juan Bautista mission, established a short distance south of Loreto in 1705. The site chosen for the
mission initially had a large indigenous population but little water for agriculture. By 1721, few neophytes still lived at the mission (Jackson,
1984). Moreover, hostile natives from several neighboring Islands raided the mission (Burrus 1984: 89-92).. Guillen moved the indigenous population
of San Juan Bautista south to the site of the new mission described as having lands that could be irrigated from nine springs (Crosby 1994: 104-108).
The Jesuits formally established a second mission in the territory of the Guaycuros named San Luis Gonzaga, in 1737 at a site called Chiriyaki, near
Dolores del Sur mission (Burrus 1984: 240-244). However, shortages of Jesuit personnel delayed the arrival of the first permanent resident missionary
until the early 1740s. In late 1743, visitador general Juan Antonio Balthasar reported that San Luis was being established on a more permanent basis
(Burrus 1984: 206-208). It should also be noted that in the 1730s several Jesuits who spent time at San Miguel visita of Comondu mission congregated
and baptized several dozen Guaycuros. One of the Jesuits was William Gordon, who left La Paz following the outbreak of the 1734 rebellion (Jackson
1984: 99-101).
The goal of the missionaries was to create stable and politically autonomous indigenous communities on the model of the pueblos reales of central
Mexico. In addition to conversion to Catholicism, the missionaries were to transform the natives into sedentary farmers, ranchers, and craft
industrial producers who would participate in the new colonial order as providers of labor to the government and Spanish entrepreneurs and payers of
tribute. However, in much of Baja California the Jesuits had to modify the basic elements of the mission program of social-cultural change. Although
the Black Robes imported food into the Peninsula from Sinaloa and Sonora, local production and imports generally did not supply the basic food needs
of the neophytes. Therefore, the Jesuits had to allow numbers of natives to continue to live in their traditional settlements euphemistically called
visitas, or satellite communities. This was the case in the two missions established among the Guaycuros.
The basis of the mission economies generally was Mediterranean-style agriculture, producing wheat, corn, some barley, and small quantities of fruits
and vegetables. The missionaries at Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga had some crops grown on small and irrigated plots of land, but did not
produce enough to feed the neophytes (Burrus 1984: 208). Hundreds of Guaycuros lived under minimal supervision from the Jesuits, and continued to live
pretty much the way they had prior to the arrival of the Black Robes. Most importantly, the Guaycuros experience minimal change in the organization of
labor and time, and did not work in sustained agricultural labor at the two missions. The Jesuits also complained about the continued influence of
hechizeros or shaman, and the persistence of traditional religious practices.
In 1768, King Carlos lll ordered the expulsion of the Jesuits from Spain and its dominions, and in Baja California visitador general Jose de Galvez
supervised the expulsion and a reorganization of the Peninsula mission system that now came under direct royal authority. One initiative Galvez
implemented was to shift native populations to missions with greater agricultural potential, to ensure labor at those sites with the potential to
produce larger crops and thus reduce the cost of importing food into the Peninsula. One mission that Galvez targeted was Todos Santos, established as
a mission in 1733. The final mission, Todos Santos, first developed as a satellite village of La Paz mission, established because of the availability
of water and arable land. The neophytes settled at Todos Santos produced wheat, corn, rice, and sugar (Burrus 1984: 206-208). In 1733, the Jesuit
Sigismundo Taraval established an independent mission at Todos Santos named Santa Rosa. Taraval was to direct the continued development of agriculture
at Todos Santos (Crosby 1994: 113). Taraval survived the uprising in the year following the establishment of the mission, and wrote the most detailed
account of the uprising and its suppression. In 1749, the Jesuits formally combined La Paz and Santa Rosa missions under the rubric of Nuestra Senora
del Pilar, the name of La Paz mission, but the establishment was more commonly called Todos Santos.
Todos Santos produced a variety of crops, and was important in Jesuit plans for the continued colonization of the Peninsula. In addition to corn and
wheat, the missionaries directed the planting of sugar cane and rice (Burrus 1984: 208). As noted above, operations at the mission included a sugar
mill and distillery. Most of the data on agricultural production are from the years following the Jesuit expulsion, and reflect greatly diminished
populations and hence small labor forces and less demand for agriculture. But immediately following the Jesuit expulsion, Galvez viewed Todos Santos
as one of the missions in Baja California with considerable potential.
The Jesuits stationed in the six southern missions baptized thousands of indigenous peoples. However, disease and rebellion rapidly decimated the
neophyte population. The 1734-1737 rebellion resulted in many deaths, and troops were sent from Sinaloa and rapidly spread venereal disease as they
had sexual relations with native women. In the aftermath of the uprising epidemics killed hundreds of neophytes. For example, an outbreak in the fall
of 1743 killed more than 500 natives at Santiago mission, and the population dropped from some 1,000 to 449 in 1744 following the epidemic. The
population of Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga totaled 1,000 and 516 respectively in 1744, but this number dropped to 458 and 288 twenty-four
years later in 1768. The population of Todos Santos was some 500 in 1730, and a mere 83 in 1768 (see Table 1).
Galvez tried to promote agriculture at Todos Santos by relocating more than 700 Guaycuros from Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga to Todos Santos. Galvez
ordered the suppression of Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga; and moved the neophytes from those two missions to Todos Santos. The surviving neophytes
from Todos Santos went to Santiago mission. Many of the neophytes at Santiago had syphilis, and a surgeon was sent to treat the ill at the mission and
those transferred from Todos Santos. At the time doctors treated syphilis with mercury pills, which was as bad as the disease being treated. Galvez
had 44 people from San Francisco Xavier moved to San Jose del Cabo. As a result of Galvez?s changes, Todos Santos had a population of 746 Guaycurans,
the population of Santiago increased to about 261, and 115 now lived at San Jose del Cabo.
From the perspective of the Crown interested in trying to reduce expenses in Mexico and increase revenue the movement of natives between missions made
sense, but his plan backfired because the neophytes could not be transformed into a disciplined labor force in a short period of time. Moreover, a
measles epidemic in 1769 decimated the population, and many of the Guaycuros fled Todos Santos. In response to the failure his plan to put the
Guaycuros to work farming, Galvez ordered the hiring of an overseer and agricultural workers (Jackson 1986).
In the fourteen years following the redistribution of population a series of epidemics swept through Baja California, culminating with a smallpox
outbreak in 1781 to 1782. Some 1,122 lived at three missions following the redistribution of population, but the first epidemic, measles in 1769,
killed hundreds. In 1771, only 290 survived. At the end of the 1781 to 1782 smallpox outbreak the population of the three missions further declined to
206 (see Table 1). In 1795, the government ordered the suppression of Santiago mission, and the removal of the neophytes to San Jose del Cabo
(Jackson 1986:275). In 1808, the population of the last two missions, Todos Santos and San Jose del Cabo, had stabilized at 191.
The Guaycuros resisted the forced relocation and change in lifestyle, and particularly the introduction of a new economy based upon sustained
agricultural labor. The natives of southern Baja California had already proven their willingness to resist the new colonial order in several major
uprisings. The devastating epidemics of the 1740s most likely profoundly broke the faith of the indigenous population in their own belief system that
could not explain the new and horrible diseases that the Jesuits clearly understood. Traditional shaman offered little to alleviate the suffering of
the neophytes. The Guaycuruan population of Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga certainly experienced the effects of epidemics, but not to the degree
as in the missions further south.
Galvez?s relocation of the Guaycuruan to Todos Santos initiated a prolonged crisis that resulted from a major miscalculation on the part of the
colonial bureaucrat. Galvez wanted the Guaycuruans to be converted into a labor force overnight, and the neophytes resisted. Francisco Palou, O.F.M.,
noted that:
The Guaicuros Indians had never settled down in their native missions of La Pasion [Dolores] and San Luis, but lived in the mountains like deer,
supporting themselves on wild foods, and attending Mass at the mission when it was the turn of their Village?The visitor [Jose de Galvez] moved all
these villages to Todos Santos to live in a settlement. As they were accustomed to live in the woods, it semed hard to them, and they immediately
began to run away (Palou 1966: 1: 143).
The Guaycuros fled Todos Santos, and engaged in the theft or destruction of mission property. The Franciscans responded with the use of corporal
punishment, an action that backfired. In 1770, a delegation of neophyte leaders from Todos Santos went to Loreto to complain about mistreatment at the
hands of the overseer, and shortages of food (Jackson 1986: 276).
Galvez?s policy initiative, while it responded to the pragmatic needs of the Crown, completely misunderstood the realities of the limited social and
cultural change the Guaycuros had experienced at Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga missions under the Jesuits. The neophytes had not been converted into a
disciplined labor force over three decades under Jesuit tutelage, but were expected to learn new ways of work overnight. The missionaries brought with
them a paternalism born of cultural and religious chauvinism, and believed that what they brought to the indigenous neophytes benefited them. A
passage in Palou?s account of the troubles at Todos Santos catches a sense of this paternalistic chauvinism.
The new settlers [Guaycuruan neophytes] have been so ungrateful for the good that has been done them in changing their fortunes that they have not
been willing to settle down there, and only by threats to remain for a time, but more to destroy what the mission has than to advance it (Palou 1966:
1: 176).
Analysis
The aridity of much of the Baja California Peninsula forced the Jesuits to modify the mission program the Black Robes attempted to impose on the
native peoples. One goal of the Jesuits was to congregate the natives in new communities, where the natives would support themselves through
agriculture and ranching. This, however, was not possible in most of Baja California, and the Jesuits left a large part of the neophyte populations to
live in satellite villages called visitas. The neophytes continued to support themselves through hunting and the collection of wild plant foods, and
only visited the main mission village periodically to receive religious instruction.
What did the inability to congregate most of the Guaycuros to a single village mean in terms of the Jesuit program of social, cultural, and religious
change? The majority of the Guaycuros, for example, lived in the visitas under minimal supervision from the Jesuits, and the Black Robes complained
about the continuing influence of shaman, who challenged the Jesuits for the hearts and minds of the Guaycuros, and delayed the religious conversion
of the natives. The fact that the Guaycuros continued to support themselves through hunting and collection also meant that the Jesuits were unable to
introduce a new work regime among the natives based on sustained agricultural field work. This last fact would become important following the Jesuit
expulsion, when Jose de Galvez ordered the relocation of the Guaycuros to Todos Santos, where the reformer anticipated that the Guaycuros would be put
to work growing crops to not only supply their own food needs, but also to produce surpluses to help feed the neophytes at the other missions.
During their tenure on the Baja California Peninsula, the Jesuits imported food mostly from their missions in Sinaloa, Sonora, and the Tarahumara
region of Nueva Vizcaya, mostly in the form of alms. The Jesuits colonized Baja California at their own expense, and relied on support from
neighboring missions they staffed. The Black Robes stationed Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga, the two missions established among the Guaycuros,
relied heavily on food imports. The situation changed in 1768, with the expulsion of the Jesuits.
King Carlos lll sent Jose de Galvez to Mexico in 1765, with extensive powers to reform, cut costs of government, and to increase royal revenue.
Galvez supervised the removal of the Jesuits, and then spent time on the northern frontier to introduce reform. He spent time in Baja California,
where he organized the expedition to colonize San Diego in Alta California. He also attempted to reorganize the missions to minimize the cost to the
government of supporting the missions that now came under royal authority. Galvez shifted populations between missions in order to bring more labor
to sites with agricultural potential. Galvez wanted to promote agriculture in the Peninsula so that the government would not have to carry the cost of
importing food to the missions, as the Jesuits had done for decades.
Galvez ordered the closing of Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga, two missions that he considered to be marginal because of the limited agriculture
production at the two sites, and the relocation of the Guaycuros to Todos Santos. His plan to put the natives to work producing crops failed. The
relocation to a new home and the use of force to put to Guaycuros backfired. The natives fled, or resisted in a variety of ways including the
destruction of mission property. A delegation of Guaycuro leaders also went to Loreto, the capital of Baja California, to complain about their
treatment at the hands of the resident Franciscan missionary, who used corporal punishment. Galvez eventually had to hire settlers to work the mission
lands, which defeated the purpose of Galvez?s plan to shift populations between missions.
The expulsion of the Jesuits and particularly the movement of personnel to and through the Peninsula on the way to San Diego spread epidemics through
the missions that decimated the neophyte populations. In 1768, the neophyte population of Todos Santos was small, and infected by syphilis. Galvez
relocated some 700 Guaycuros to Todos Santos, yet within several years only a small percentage of the population survived. In 1771, 180 Guaycuros
survived. Epidemics and the effects of syphilis greatly reduced the Guaycuros population during the fifty years following the Jesuit expulsion, and by
1821 the group was near the point of cultural and biological extinction.
The Jesuit policy towards the Guaycuros buffered the natives from the most adverse effects of Spanish colonization, except for the spread of Old
World crowd diseases. One important aspect of Jesuit policy was the control of personnel from the mainland and the Peninsula. This changed following
the expulsion of the Jesuits, and the arrival of Jose de Galvez with his plans for reform. The Guaycuros populations of Dolores del Sur and San Luis
Gonzaga declined during the Jesuit period, but depopulation accelerated following their expulsion, as a direct consequence of Galvez?s policies. The
expulsion of the Jesuits proved to be disastrous for the Guaycuros.
Table 1: Population of the Southern Baja California Missions, in Selected Years
Year Dolores
Del Sur
Santiago San Jose
Del Cabo Todos Santos San Luis Gonzaga
1730 946 500
1733 1040
1742 1000
1744 1000 449 516
1755 624 232 73 151 352
1762 573 198 63 93 300
1768 458 178 71 83 288
1771 70 50 170
1773 75 51 180
1774 72 50 155
1782 43 28 135
1786 36 143 159
1790 32 62 90
1791 23 62 90
1794 70 102 78
1795 84 80
1796 70 75
1797 77 80
1798 81 81
1799 78 74
1800 78 88
1801 77 80
1802 83 79
1803 88 87
1804 83 79
1806 92
1808 109 82
1813 107
Source: Robert H. Jackson, ?Demographic Change in the Missions of Southern Baja California,? Journal of California and Great Basin Anthropology 8:2
(1986), 273-279; Robert H. Jackson, Indian Population Decline: The Missions of Northwestern New Spain, 1687-1840 (Albuquerque, 1994), 167-168.
Bibliography
Baegert, S.J., Johann, Observations in Lower California. Trans. And ed. M. M. 1952. Brandenburg.
Berkeley and Los Angeles, University of California Press.
Burrus, S.J.,ErnestJesuit Relations-Baja California.
1984.
Los Angeles, Dawson?s Bookshop.
Crosby, Harry, Antigua California: Mission and Colony on the Peninsula
1994. Frontier, 1697-1767.
Albuquerque: University of New Mexico Press.
Jackson, Robert H., ?Demographic Patterns in the Missions of Central Baja 1984. California.? Journal of California and Great Basin Anthropology.
6: 91-112.
Jackson, Robert H., , ?Patterns of Demographic Change in the Missions of 1986. Southern Baja California.? Journal of California and Great Basin
Anthropology.
8:2 :273-279.
Palou, O.F.M., Francisco, Historical Memoirs of New California, 4 vols., trans. and 1966. ed. Herbert E. Bolton. New York: McMillan.
|
|
|
bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Nice jobe (as usual), but you might consider indenting the first line of paragraphs, which would make your stuff much more readable.
|
|
|
Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
QUOTE: "missionaries brought with them a paternalism born of cultural and religious chauvinism, and believed that what they brought to the indigenous
neophytes benefited them. A passage in Palou?s account of the troubles at Todos Santos catches a sense of this paternalistic chauvinism."
certainly rings true from everything I've read (limited) by Baegert, et al.
It seems to me that if we were going off to help someone else we should be disallowed from gaining therefrom, except from feelings of having done the
right thing. A wealthy and haughty society may choose to look "down" on those that surpass them.
How about an article that gets specific re the punishments issued and "judgments" made against the neophytes, e.g., locking the women in a room void
of furniture or toilet facilities overnight, every night, to prevent them from being with their men?
As previously, you have an interesting post. Mas por favor.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
research
THe original paper does have indented paragraphs. The format gets all goofy when I cut and paste the text here. In terms of information on social
control, I would suggest you look at my research posted on Tim Walker's web site, particularly the Chumash study, as well as my published books
Indians, Franciscans, and Spanish Colonization and Indian Population Decline. The practice of incarcerating women at night in dormitories certainly
was a factor in higher death rates among women. Those who take a pro-Church position and advocates for the Serra cause have not liked what I have
written, because it does not support the rosey picture they would like to present of conditions in the missions.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Tim's Website
The URL to Tim's site (where Dr. Jackson's papers can be viewed) is http://www.timsbaja.com
Also it can be found in my web site in my Links to Great Baja Web Sites... then under Baja Home Pages.
|
|
|
Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
|
|
then and now
QUOTE: "missionaries brought with them a paternalism born of cultural and religious chauvinism, and believed that what they brought to the indigenous
neophytes benefited them. A passage in Palou?s account of the troubles at Todos Santos catches a sense of this paternalistic chauvinism."
certainly rings true from everything I've read (limited) by Baegert, et al.
It seems to me that if we were going off to help someone else we should be disallowed from gaining therefrom, except from feelings of having done the
right thing. A wealthy and haughty society may choose to look "down" on those that surpass them.
How about an article that gets specific re the punishments issued and "judgments" made against the neophytes, e.g., locking the women in a room void
of furniture or toilet facilities overnight, every night, to prevent them from being with their men?
As previously, you have an interesting post. Mas por favor. (MIKE)
********************************
As I scrolled down to look at the replys, I found it interesting that the same paragraph that stood out for you, Mike, leaped out at me for pretty
much the same reason. Cultural superiority sure can lead to some really inferior behaviors.
Where we may differ, though, is that I was thinking of all the colonization the U.S. has attempted, including the current barely managable situations
in Iraq and [the now conveniently forgotten] Afghanistan.
The more things change, the more things stay the same. But instead of the church as the vectors of economic and cultural dessimation, we now have the
army and multinationals to do the government's "humanitarian" dirty work. The only difference is that with adequate food supplies and the control of
environmental scurges, the larger populations are even more difficult to control..
.....Very interesting article, Robert. I'll definitely check out what you've got on Tim's site.- Stephanie
|
|
|
bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
So if you can format the original reasonably, why not here? If you can't manage indentation, how about adding a space between paragraphs?
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Guaycuros/Pericues
Pericues were in the southern cape, the Guaycuros further north in the Magdalena Desert. Jose de Galvez ordered the Guaycuros moved to Todos Santos in
1768, into territory that was not originally theirs.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Caves
What is the approximate location of the cave(s) depicted in the photos, and in relation to which mission? Does your friend who has collected the
artifacts maintained a recrod of where they were found?
|
|
|
Ski Baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 652
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
|
|
Caves and Artifacts
I will be leaving for back down there to deliver goods and do some more exploring in some different areas in about three weeks. If you would care to
accompany me and pay all expenses plus, I might consider sharing that information. But until I am done seeing what they want to show me and have
told me about, I would prefer not to be met at any of these places by anyone that doesn't live there.
|
|
|
Family Guy
Junior Nomad
Posts: 95
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Bay Area
Member Is Offline
|
|
There are not any known direct descendants of the Pericues
| Quote: |
At the time of the Spanish incursion in the Baja, there were three very well defined Indian tribes living there. The extreme south was inhabited by
the Pericues, the middle lower peninsula was inhabited by the Guaycuras, and the north by the Cochimies. Estimates of population vary , however 50,000
seems to be the most accepted. It has been established that the northern Indians (Cochimies) came from the north , however the other two groups were
not anthropologically speaking similar to either continental or northern Indians. These two groups are however similar to Pacific island inhabitants,
leading some experts to speculate, that their ancestors came from a Pacific island center. There are not any known direct descendants of the Pericues
or Guaycuras alive
|
The above information was taken from Pablo Martinez's book A History of Lower California. It is not a direct quote. I have read the same
information elsewhere.
If these people are correct, you may be rewriting baja history!
Happy travels. Baseballs on their way. Do I envision a future Pericuen All-Star??
[Edited on 10-30-2003 by Family Guy]
|
|
|
Family Guy
Junior Nomad
Posts: 95
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Bay Area
Member Is Offline
|
|
Lyman Belding (1829-1918) was a self-educated ornithologist who lived in Alta California (Van der Pas 1977). In late 1882 and early 1883, he traveled
in southern Baja California. During part of his trip he accompanied the Dutch anthropologist Herman Frederik Carel ten Kate, who subsequently
published more extensively on his archaeological and physical anthropological findings (Kate 1883a, 1883b, 1884). The following brief article, which
discusses the physical characteristics and burial practices of the aboriginal people of the Cape Region, appeared in "The West-American Scientist," a
journal published in San Diego, in 1885. The information enclosed in brackets has been added by the editor. -- Don Laylander
The Pericue Indians
by L. Belding
Probably these Indians were never numerous though the Victoria mountains would have supported a large population.
Father Baegut [Baegert] says there were 4,000 Indians in the southern part of the peninsula of Lower California when the missions of Santiago and San
Jose del Cabo were destroyed by them in the year 1734, but that they numbered only 400 in 1772 (Chas. Rau, Sm. Rp. 1864 p 384).
It was a prime object with my companion Dr. H. Ten Kate, of the society of anthropology of Paris, and myself as well, to find a living representative
of the original Lower Californian, which we probably found on the Rancho San Jacinto, owned by the Vallerino family. But we could get no positive or
definitive information concerning this Indian woman, who must have been about seventy-five years old, although from La Paz to Cape San Lucas she was
universally reputed to be a pure blooded Indian. She differed widely from the Yaquis and other Indians from the east side of the Gulf, being of good
stature, robust form and dark complexion, with a cranium which resembled those found in the caves.
Dr. H. Ten Kate offered to photograph the hacienda and its occupants, hoping by this means to get her photograph, but his diplomacy failed, although
backed by our distinguished guide, Don Juan Dios Angoula, who had long been a friend of the family.
We saw three of her children who were good examples of the [/ p. 22] better class of Mexicans, their father having been a Mexican or Spaniard. This
woman is probably the only living pure blooded native south of 24 degrees 30 minutes.
The Indians of Lower California south of 24 degrees 30 minutes buried their dead in caves below shelving rocks, without regard to the points of the
compass, usually painting the bones, but how they made the bones clean and ready to be painted is still unknown. At Zorillo we were shown a small cave
in a granite rock by our local guide, who said that an Italian collector, several years before, had found bones of a "gentile," the Mexican name for
an Indian or heathen.
The sand in the cave was dry, coarse disintegrated granite, about a foot deep. By digging in it I found the well preserved skeleton of an adult male
Indian, who was perhaps the last of the Pericues. This skeleton was wrapped in cloth made from the bark of the palm and bound with three ply cord
which had been plaited as sailors make sennit, the material being fiber of the agave. Dr. W. H. Dall mentions in the Smithsonian contributions to
knowledge, number 318, that the mummies of the Aleutian Islands, were bound with cord quite similarly braided in square sennit.
The package, which was about twenty inches long, did not appear to have been disturbed since burial, although a femur and some small bones were
missing, and nearly all of the bones had been unjointed. The bones of the hand were inside of the skull, which was full of small bones and sand.
Meanwhile Dr. Ten Kate found the skeleton of a girl about twelve years old. This was also in excellent condition, although differing from those found
elsewhere, in not having been painted, a rare exception. For the skeletons found by Dr. Ten Kate on Espiritu Santo Island, at Encenada and Los
Martires, which he kindly allowed me to inspect, had all been painted the usual brick red, with the exception of one the Doctor found at Los Martires
which had a skull of very inferior, almost idiotic form.
The few bones we afterwards found in a cave near Candelario and several skeletons found at San Pedro by Dr. H. Ten Kate had also been painted. All of
the skulls were of one general form, namely, the pyramidal -- high, long narrow, with wide, prominent cheek bones.
The only ornaments, or other objects of aboriginal handiwork found with the skeletons, were two small, neatly worked, pearl oyster shells, which were
in the package of the bones of the young girl found at Zorillo. These shells had been polished on the convex side, the edges finely serrated and
pierced at the apex as if to be suspended about the person for ornament.
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Locations of Caves
Ski. I do not intend to intrude on your cave exploration, and am really mystified by your response. I simply asked for the approximate located in
relation to the missions in the region, and specifically asked for the approximate location because I suspected you would be reluctant to reveal the
exact location. Are the caves in the mission district of Santiago, etc.
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
Mavbe you can consider me something of an understudy. I hope nobody minds that I did this. I think I did it correctly.
The Guaycurosa, Jesuit Missionaries, and Jose de Galvez: The Failure of Spanish Policy in Baja California
In 1697, a band of Jesuits and soldiers arrived at a site called Concho, and established Nuestra Senora de Loreto mission. In the weeks following
the founding of the mission the local natives attacked the small outpost, but failed to dislodge the incipient colony. The Spanish Crown had funded an
aborted colony in the arid Baja California Peninsula in the mid-1680s, but then had decided to no longer attempt to colonize the Peninsula. Jesuit
Juan Maria Salvatierra petitioned the royal government for permission for the Jesuits to establish missions at their own expense, which was granted.
Over the next two decades the Jesuits established more missions in Baja California, and consolidated their presence in the districts surrounding
Loreto.
In 1720, the Jesuits expanded south into the Magdalena Desert and the Cape Region that surrounds La Paz, the site of an aborted colony established in
the 1530s by Hernan Cortes. The term Guaycuros designates a linguistic group that inhabited the arid Magdalena Desert that stretches between Loreto on
the north and La Paz on the south. The Guaycuros were nomadic hunters and gatherers who lived in bands of related families, and generally occupied a
clearly defined territory within which they collected food. The Jesuits generally denigrated the Guaycura for their dietary habits (Baegert 1952).
In the 1720s and 1730s, the Jesuits established six missions among the native peoples of the southern Cape region and the Magdalena Desert region. In
the far south of the Peninsula the Jesuits encountered a relatively wetter climate that supported agriculture, including more specialized crops such
as sugar cane. Moreover, with the establishment of San Jose del Cabo mission in 1730, there was a strategically located settlement that could supply
fresh water and provisions to the Manila Galleon that coasted Baja California on its return voyage from Manila to Acapulco on the Pacific Coast of
Mexico. The colonial government had pressed the Jesuits for several decades to find a safe port for the Galleon to stop on the long voyage from Manila
to Acapulco. The strongest resistance to the new colonial order occurred in the south with uprisings in October of 1734 and again in the early 1740s.
Rebels in 1734 killed Jesuit missionaries Lorenzo Carranco and Nicolas Tamaral, and also ambushed the second galleon to stop at San Jose del Cabo.
(Burrus 1984: 104-109). The Jesuits attributed the resistance of the natives to their capricious nature, and to the presence of natives of mixed
European-indigenous ancestry, the progeny of pearly fishermen and corsairs who had coasted the pearl beds off of the Peninsula for decades.
In 1721, missionary Clemente Guillen, S.J., established a mission known as Dolores del Sur at a site roughly half way between Loreto and La Paz among
the Guaicuros. Guillen had been stationed at San Juan Bautista mission, established a short distance south of Loreto in 1705. The site chosen for the
mission initially had a large indigenous population but little water for agriculture. By 1721, few neophytes still lived at the mission (Jackson,
1984). Moreover, hostile natives from several neighboring Islands raided the mission (Burrus 1984: 89-92).. Guillen moved the indigenous population of
San Juan Bautista south to the site of the new mission described as having lands that could be irrigated from nine springs (Crosby 1994: 104-108).
The Jesuits formally established a second mission in the territory of the Guaycuros named San Luis Gonzaga, in 1737 at a site called Chiriyaki, near
Dolores del Sur mission (Burrus 1984: 240-244). However, shortages of Jesuit personnel delayed the arrival of the first permanent resident missionary
until the early 1740s. In late 1743, visitador general Juan Antonio Balthasar reported that San Luis was being established on a more permanent basis
(Burrus 1984: 206-208). It should also be noted that in the 1730s several Jesuits who spent time at San Miguel visita of Comondu mission congregated
and baptized several dozen Guaycuros. One of the Jesuits was William Gordon, who left La Paz following the outbreak of the 1734 rebellion (Jackson
1984: 99-101).
The goal of the missionaries was to create stable and politically autonomous indigenous communities on the model of the pueblos reales of central
Mexico. In addition to conversion to Catholicism, the missionaries were to transform the natives into sedentary farmers, ranchers, and craft
industrial producers who would participate in the new colonial order as providers of labor to the government and Spanish entrepreneurs and payers of
tribute. However, in much of Baja California the Jesuits had to modify the basic elements of the mission program of social-cultural change. Although
the Black Robes imported food into the Peninsula from Sinaloa and Sonora, local production and imports generally did not supply the basic food needs
of the neophytes. Therefore, the Jesuits had to allow numbers of natives to continue to live in their traditional settlements euphemistically called
visitas, or satellite communities. This was the case in the two missions established among the Guaycuros.
The basis of the mission economies generally was Mediterranean-style agriculture, producing wheat, corn, some barley, and small quantities of fruits
and vegetables. The missionaries at Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga had some crops grown on small and irrigated plots of land, but did not
produce enough to feed the neophytes (Burrus 1984: 208). Hundreds of Guaycuros lived under minimal supervision from the Jesuits, and continued to live
pretty much the way they had prior to the arrival of the Black Robes. Most importantly, the Guaycuros experience minimal change in the organization of
labor and time, and did not work in sustained agricultural labor at the two missions. The Jesuits also complained about the continued influence of
hechizeros or shaman, and the persistence of traditional religious practices.
In 1768, King Carlos lll ordered the expulsion of the Jesuits from Spain and its dominions, and in Baja California visitador general Jose de Galvez
supervised the expulsion and a reorganization of the Peninsula mission system that now came under direct royal authority. One initiative Galvez
implemented was to shift native populations to missions with greater agricultural potential, to ensure labor at those sites with the potential to
produce larger crops and thus reduce the cost of importing food into the Peninsula. One mission that Galvez targeted was Todos Santos, established as
a mission in 1733. The final mission, Todos Santos, first developed as a satellite village of La Paz mission, established because of the availability
of water and arable land. The neophytes settled at Todos Santos produced wheat, corn, rice, and sugar (Burrus 1984: 206-208). In 1733, the Jesuit
Sigismundo Taraval established an independent mission at Todos Santos named Santa Rosa. Taraval was to direct the continued development of agriculture
at Todos Santos (Crosby 1994: 113). Taraval survived the uprising in the year following the establishment of the mission, and wrote the most detailed
account of the uprising and its suppression. In 1749, the Jesuits formally combined La Paz and Santa Rosa missions under the rubric of Nuestra Senora
del Pilar, the name of La Paz mission, but the establishment was more commonly called Todos Santos.
Todos Santos produced a variety of crops, and was important in Jesuit plans for the continued colonization of the Peninsula. In addition to corn and
wheat, the missionaries directed the planting of sugar cane and rice (Burrus 1984: 208). As noted above, operations at the mission included a sugar
mill and distillery. Most of the data on agricultural production are from the years following the Jesuit expulsion, and reflect greatly diminished
populations and hence small labor forces and less demand for agriculture. But immediately following the Jesuit expulsion, Galvez viewed Todos Santos
as one of the missions in Baja California with considerable potential.
The Jesuits stationed in the six southern missions baptized thousands of indigenous peoples. However, disease and rebellion rapidly decimated the
neophyte population. The 1734-1737 rebellion resulted in many deaths, and troops were sent from Sinaloa and rapidly spread venereal disease as they
had sexual relations with native women. In the aftermath of the uprising epidemics killed hundreds of neophytes. For example, an outbreak in the fall
of 1743 killed more than 500 natives at Santiago mission, and the population dropped from some 1,000 to 449 in 1744 following the epidemic. The
population of Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga totaled 1,000 and 516 respectively in 1744, but this number dropped to 458 and 288 twenty-four
years later in 1768. The population of Todos Santos was some 500 in 1730, and a mere 83 in 1768 (see Table 1).
Galvez tried to promote agriculture at Todos Santos by relocating more than 700 Guaycuros from Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga to Todos Santos. Galvez
ordered the suppression of Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga; and moved the neophytes from those two missions to Todos Santos. The surviving neophytes from
Todos Santos went to Santiago mission. Many of the neophytes at Santiago had syphilis, and a surgeon was sent to treat the ill at the mission and
those transferred from Todos Santos. At the time doctors treated syphilis with mercury pills, which was as bad as the disease being treated. Galvez
had 44 people from San Francisco Xavier moved to San Jose del Cabo. As a result of Galvez?s changes, Todos Santos had a population of 746 Guaycurans,
the population of Santiago increased to about 261, and 115 now lived at San Jose del Cabo.
From the perspective of the Crown interested in trying to reduce expenses in Mexico and increase revenue the movement of natives between missions made
sense, but his plan backfired because the neophytes could not be transformed into a disciplined labor force in a short period of time. Moreover, a
measles epidemic in 1769 decimated the population, and many of the Guaycuros fled Todos Santos. In response to the failure his plan to put the
Guaycuros to work farming, Galvez ordered the hiring of an overseer and agricultural workers (Jackson 1986).
In the fourteen years following the redistribution of population a series of epidemics swept through Baja California, culminating with a smallpox
outbreak in 1781 to 1782. Some 1,122 lived at three missions following the redistribution of population, but the first epidemic, measles in 1769,
killed hundreds. In 1771, only 290 survived. At the end of the 1781 to 1782 smallpox outbreak the population of the three missions further declined to
206 (see Table 1). In 1795, the government ordered the suppression of Santiago mission, and the removal of the neophytes to San Jose del Cabo (Jackson
1986:275). In 1808, the population of the last two missions, Todos Santos and San Jose del Cabo, had stabilized at 191.
The Guaycuros resisted the forced relocation and change in lifestyle, and particularly the introduction of a new economy based upon sustained
agricultural labor. The natives of southern Baja California had already proven their willingness to resist the new colonial order in several major
uprisings. The devastating epidemics of the 1740s most likely profoundly broke the faith of the indigenous population in their own belief system that
could not explain the new and horrible diseases that the Jesuits clearly understood. Traditional shaman offered little to alleviate the suffering of
the neophytes. The Guaycuruan population of Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga certainly experienced the effects of epidemics, but not to the degree
as in the missions further south.
Galvez?s relocation of the Guaycuruan to Todos Santos initiated a prolonged crisis that resulted from a major miscalculation on the part of the
colonial bureaucrat. Galvez wanted the Guaycuruans to be converted into a labor force overnight, and the neophytes resisted. Francisco Palou, O.F.M.,
noted that:
The Guaicuros Indians had never settled down in their native missions of La Pasion [Dolores] and San Luis, but lived in the mountains like deer,
supporting themselves on wild foods, and attending Mass at the mission when it was the turn of their Village?The visitor [Jose de Galvez] moved all
these villages to Todos Santos to live in a settlement. As they were accustomed to live in the woods, it semed hard to them, and they immediately
began to run away (Palou 1966: 1: 143).
The Guaycuros fled Todos Santos, and engaged in the theft or destruction of mission property. The Franciscans responded with the use of corporal
punishment, an action that backfired. In 1770, a delegation of neophyte leaders from Todos Santos went to Loreto to complain about mistreatment at the
hands of the overseer, and shortages of food (Jackson 1986: 276).
Galvez?s policy initiative, while it responded to the pragmatic needs of the Crown, completely misunderstood the realities of the limited social and
cultural change the Guaycuros had experienced at Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga missions under the Jesuits. The neophytes had not been converted into a
disciplined labor force over three decades under Jesuit tutelage, but were expected to learn new ways of work overnight. The missionaries brought with
them a paternalism born of cultural and religious chauvinism, and believed that what they brought to the indigenous neophytes benefited them. A
passage in Palou?s account of the troubles at Todos Santos catches a sense of this paternalistic chauvinism.
The new settlers [Guaycuruan neophytes] have been so ungrateful for the good that has been done them in changing their fortunes that they have not
been willing to settle down there, and only by threats to remain for a time, but more to destroy what the mission has than to advance it (Palou 1966:
1: 176).
Analysis
The aridity of much of the Baja California Peninsula forced the Jesuits to modify the mission program the Black Robes attempted to impose on the
native peoples. One goal of the Jesuits was to congregate the natives in new communities, where the natives would support themselves through
agriculture and ranching. This, however, was not possible in most of Baja California, and the Jesuits left a large part of the neophyte populations to
live in satellite villages called visitas. The neophytes continued to support themselves through hunting and the collection of wild plant foods, and
only visited the main mission village periodically to receive religious instruction.
What did the inability to congregate most of the Guaycuros to a single village mean in terms of the Jesuit program of social, cultural, and religious
change? The majority of the Guaycuros, for example, lived in the visitas under minimal supervision from the Jesuits, and the Black Robes complained
about the continuing influence of shaman, who challenged the Jesuits for the hearts and minds of the Guaycuros, and delayed the religious conversion
of the natives. The fact that the Guaycuros continued to support themselves through hunting and collection also meant that the Jesuits were unable to
introduce a new work regime among the natives based on sustained agricultural field work. This last fact would become important following the Jesuit
expulsion, when Jose de Galvez ordered the relocation of the Guaycuros to Todos Santos, where the reformer anticipated that the Guaycuros would be put
to work growing crops to not only supply their own food needs, but also to produce surpluses to help feed the neophytes at the other missions.
During their tenure on the Baja California Peninsula, the Jesuits imported food mostly from their missions in Sinaloa, Sonora, and the Tarahumara
region of Nueva Vizcaya, mostly in the form of alms. The Jesuits colonized Baja California at their own expense, and relied on support from
neighboring missions they staffed. The Black Robes stationed Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga, the two missions established among the Guaycuros,
relied heavily on food imports. The situation changed in 1768, with the expulsion of the Jesuits.
King Carlos lll sent Jose de Galvez to Mexico in 1765, with extensive powers to reform, cut costs of government, and to increase royal revenue. Galvez
supervised the removal of the Jesuits, and then spent time on the northern frontier to introduce reform. He spent time in Baja California, where he
organized the expedition to colonize San Diego in Alta California. He also attempted to reorganize the missions to minimize the cost to the government
of supporting the missions that now came under royal authority. Galvez shifted populations between missions in order to bring more labor to sites with
agricultural potential. Galvez wanted to promote agriculture in the Peninsula so that the government would not have to carry the cost of importing
food to the missions, as the Jesuits had done for decades.
Galvez ordered the closing of Dolores del Sur and San Luis Gonzaga, two missions that he considered to be marginal because of the limited agriculture
production at the two sites, and the relocation of the Guaycuros to Todos Santos. His plan to put the natives to work producing crops failed. The
relocation to a new home and the use of force to put to Guaycuros backfired. The natives fled, or resisted in a variety of ways including the
destruction of mission property. A delegation of Guaycuro leaders also went to Loreto, the capital of Baja California, to complain about their
treatment at the hands of the resident Franciscan missionary, who used corporal punishment. Galvez eventually had to hire settlers to work the mission
lands, which defeated the purpose of Galvez?s plan to shift populations between missions.
The expulsion of the Jesuits and particularly the movement of personnel to and through the Peninsula on the way to San Diego spread epidemics through
the missions that decimated the neophyte populations. In 1768, the neophyte population of Todos Santos was small, and infected by syphilis. Galvez
relocated some 700 Guaycuros to Todos Santos, yet within several years only a small percentage of the population survived. In 1771, 180 Guaycuros
survived. Epidemics and the effects of syphilis greatly reduced the Guaycuros population during the fifty years following the Jesuit expulsion, and by
1821 the group was near the point of cultural and biological extinction.
The Jesuit policy towards the Guaycuros buffered the natives from the most adverse effects of Spanish colonization, except for the spread of Old World
crowd diseases. One important aspect of Jesuit policy was the control of personnel from the mainland and the Peninsula. This changed following the
expulsion of the Jesuits, and the arrival of Jose de Galvez with his plans for reform. The Guaycuros populations of Dolores del Sur and San Luis
Gonzaga declined during the Jesuit period, but depopulation accelerated following their expulsion, as a direct consequence of Galvez?s policies. The
expulsion of the Jesuits proved to be disastrous for the Guaycuros.
[Edited on 10-30-2003 by Packoderm]
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Response to Ski Baja
On mulling over your last post, I have to conclude that you are way out of line with your comments. This forum is interesting, because people share
information. Both you and I have done that, along with many others (thanks to Sr. Elefante for editing my Guaycuros paper). SInce we were discussing
the native peoples of the southern Cape, I though it would be useful to get only an APPROXIMATE location of the caves you provided nice photos of, in
relation to the mission sites being discussed and the native groups in the region.
You, for some reason I don;t understand, interpreted this as being an effort on my part to intrude on your cave explorations. You are out of line on
this assumption. Cave sites are fragile lenses on native cultures long gone, and need to be treated carefully. If artifacts are taken out, the
provenance of each artifact must be noted, otherwise the removal of artifacts is nothing more than plundering of cultural resources. I wonder if this
part of my message elicited your response? The way that the artifacts have been hung in a collage suggests that they have been simply removed with
little care to preserving a record of the place of origin.
Your post contains a level of disrespect, which I personally find unacceptable.
|
|
|
Ski Baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 652
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
|
|
My last post
I deleted my last post because a picture didn't come out on it. And speaking of pictures, that is what I intend to take before some scientist or
other so called professional goes and digs it all up.
Not only have I explained how important these finds could be for them if it is not disturbed but I also got them to pick up the Budweiser cans from
the last
visitors to that area. And I didn't see a lot of that for sale in the stores down there.
Forgive me if I seem a little rude but I personally feel that pictures are a pretty good idea before the fences get put up and there's a bunch of
"Professionals " poking around. Especially ones that aren't Mexican.
I have been given presents of some things which will be in an exhibition down there. They are not for sale. And the people with the post and
artifacts, they didn't know any better and actually, it was quite a prize for them. Part of their history if you catch my drift. Which is why
my gifts will be returned and put on display when the time is right.
As I said in the post I deleted, I will probably be ready to share locations on my return from the next trip. They are interested in promoting
tourism down there and I have been working on that with them. Bud cans suck when you are out in the wilds but bikers are bikers.
If you have some Guaycura or Pericue blood in you, I would be glad to share the locations. Otherwise, I hope you continue to enjoy the photos.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
J.R., let me step in here just to 'introduce' you to 'academicanarchist'. He is Dr. Robert Jackson, a Southwest historian and published author. He is
in Texas, but has traveled to Southern California twice in the past year to meet with me and assist with my quest to publish the last Baja book
authored by the late, wonderful Choral Pepper.
Dr. Jackson has donated much time in editing and supplementing the Pepper manuscript, which I greatly appreciate. His own book, 'Mission Indian
Decline' covers (in detail) how European influences about wiped out the entire population of Baja's natives.
Fear not his intentions... he would not want the exact location published, either. For purposes of general curiosity, I think it is safe to say which
nearby mission these natives were influenced by. If Dr. Jackson reads your trip reports, you mention and have photos of one mission primarily... so
that would be my guess.
Dr. Jackson's photo (with me) is in the Viva Baja 4 pictures, as he and several other Baja authors attended that get-together. http://davidksbaja.com/vivabaja4/page5.html
[Edited on 10-30-2003 by David K]
|
|
|
Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
If we could see our posts the way others do...
This thread has major contributions from major contributors and yet you choose to pick each other apart. At the risk of peeing you all off I'll say
this. One of you has a very academic aire and a wealth of heavy history that we can all learn from, information that gives us insight and provokes
questions into moments that lurk in the shadows of the limited knowledge most of us have learned of Baja California. We long for more.
Another of us has immediate experiences of living in Baja California and contrasting the happenings on the two sides of the border, California and
Baja California (norte) and siding for reasons whatever with the side to the south at the cost of rejecting the audience from his (her?) parent
country.
A third has a need to present an omnipresence and God only knows why. We love you any way we can get you.
How is it we cannot somehow see the image we present when we constantly find ways to disagree?
David, you have no need to defend your friend when he has history to offer.
J.R., Sometimes you take a very negative position with respect to issues you are passionate about and that can provoke others into negative responses
without your intending to.
Bob, Thanks for your HEAVY research. We can all learn from it.
Reminder to self: Who the hell do you think you are to offer up all this assinine advice?
DOH!
|
|
|
Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
|
|
Make new friends and keeep thee oold.......
Ahhh.... Sometimes this board is a real hoot!... With all the mud slingin' I've seen in the past 24 hours (not just this thread by any means), it
makes me wonder why in the world I printed that retraction when I at least seemed to be tickin'' all the right people off.
Even though some poop occasionally flies, I just love the free speech component of this board and feel totally indebted to Doug for setting it up so
that I can read a lot of stimulating stuff on a regular basis.
Think I'll go dutifully click a couple of adds before I tuck it in....Stephanie
javascript :icon(' ')
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
|
|
|
academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Issues
I think my position is very clear, and I would never tell anybody not to post what they believe. David and I have discussed many times the need to
protect historic sites in Baja, that are not protected, and as I stated earlier I have no intention of going to ravage the caves that SKIBAJA is
examining. My only concern is Ski's response to a question that I asked within the context we have been having of the native peoples of the Cape
region. There was no need to respond the way he did to my question.
If SKI works to protect the sites and insure that the artifacts are preserved, then kudos to him. My comment about the artifacts and the plundering of
the caves was not directed to him, but rather to the people who are creating collages from these precious artifacts.
One final comment. When archaeologists excavate a site, they first document it photographically. One thing that they do is to identify the
stratigraphy of the site, which is important for establishing the age of the artifacts.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
|
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
