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Bob H
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Carmelita's PHOTO's PLEASE
OK, many of us have eaten Carmelita's tamales on the way to Baja Sur. Please post your photos if you have them.
Bob H
[Edited on 1-15-2006 by Bob H]
[Edited on 1-19-2006 by Bob H]
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Bob H
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Happy Carmelita with tamle in hand!
Bob H
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Frank
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Ok so, what area is she most likely to be found in? I wont drive by that van without stopping! I wonder if she knows how much exposure you just gave
her. I can eat tamales all day/everyday.
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David K
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Frank, she is in the parking lot of the Villa Jesus Maria Pemex station.
Bob, there are more photos of her in the restaurant review thread...
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woody with a view
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her husband has been there the last two times i've been thru near the pemex in jesus maria, i think - alzheimers! they have plastic tables and chairs
set up so you can sit and eat or take it para llevar. THEE BEST TAMALS for at least 100 miles in any direction IMHO. a sack 'o ten will run you about
$7-8 u.s.
[Edited on 1-15-2006 by woody in ob]
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bajajudy
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FYI
The singular is tamal.
I know all of you love her tamales but my husband got very sick from one of hers. Of course, one never truly knows where these eruptions come from
but timing is everything. I had to do all the driving from there to San Jose, he was so sick. It was chicken. I ate one and had absolutely no
problems. Luck of the draw, I guess.
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David K
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Yes, I was never a big tamale fan until I had hers (after numerous reports on Amigos de Baja in 2001).
Judy, if you both had the same food and only he got sick, then it likely was something else, I bet.
Here is the photo I posted on the other thread, of Carmelita pointing out my old Viva Baja sticker, that Fishin' Rich took...
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oladulce
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roadside tamales
We started making our own tamales a few years ago and discovered how much hands-on is involved in the process.
Decided not to eat roadside tamales anymore even though we'd never had a problem. With all that handling, there's a greater potential to either ruin
your trip on the way down, or make it a miserable drive on the way home. Just not worth the chance.
Both of our heads still look towards the van when we drive by though.
[Edited on 1-15-2006 by oladulce]
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woody with a view
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| Quote: |
With all that handling, there's a greater potential to either ruin your trip on the way down, or make it a miserable drive on the way home. Just not
worth the chance.
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my thoughts EXACTLY.....as i eat 3 or 4. i guess all it will take to cure me is a dose of food poisoning, huh?
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David K
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You know that is exactly why I won't eat a clam c-cktail from a vendor any more!
I had one in San Felipe (from the fish taco vendor area) and about 24 hours later, my near death experience began! I even asked if they were fresh
clams... Later I thought to myself, what was she going to say? "No, they are very old and bad to eat"!! LOL
I was four wheeling the next day with mcgyver and his wife Polly in the San Fermin Plain when my stomach began to make weird noises.
When our two vehicles returned to Hwy. 5 (km. 32) after our day trip (starting at Campo Christina and Arroyo Matomi)... I had to turn down Max's
invite back to his place to camp, because I knew I was going to be ill.
I opted to return to Shell Island and camp alone in the dunes there...
I thought I was going to die...
http://vivabaja.com/503/page3.html for that trip, less any gross stuff!
[Edited on 1-15-2006 by David K]
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woody with a view
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i always thought that bad food would let itself be known within a couple of hours. i too, have been near death in oaxaca-it took five days before i
could walk more than to the toilet....ugh!
everyone should have to go through it at least once in a lifetime...
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bajajudy
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DK
Although that sounds reasonable, we had gotten up early at Mama's and hit the road without breakfast. The tamales were the first thing in our
stomachs. It is equally as reasonble that I got one that was good and Jim's had something in it that was not good.
I eat at roadside stands all the time, but know that I do so at my own risk but I figure that my natural germ count is right up there with any of my
Mexican friends.
Also, I didnt say that I would never eat there again. Jim wont but I might! She is such a personality, you have to at least talk to her and after
that, the tamales come naturally.
Provecho
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
Decided not to eat roadside tamales anymore even though we'd never had a problem. With all that handling, there's a greater potential to either ruin
your trip on the way down, or make it a miserable drive on the way home. Just not worth the chance.
[Edited on 1-15-2006 by oladulce] |
I would think most anything you eat at a restaurant or stand would be handled. Life is too short, for me, to miss out on great food. Food poisoning
happens everywhere...especially in the US.
Just my thoughts...
Zac
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oladulce
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The thing about tamales Zac is that you shred the meat by hand, mix the masa with your hands, put hands-full of the mixture on the masa, then wrap
and tie it up in an hoja.
You're right, part of the fun of travel is eating local fare, but I don't want to be too sick to surf on a long awaited trip so I'd rather minimize my
exposure.
Most "food poisoning" is due to the Staph bacteria (either from contaminated conditions or spoilage of the food itself) and the onset of symptoms is
within a few hours and lasts about 24. Other organisms and their toxins can take longer to kick in and the symptoms can last a few days. Viruses like
hepatitis A take a minimum of 2 weeks to hit and can leave you with lasting memories of your trip for a few months. Some specialists feel that an
episode of infectious hepata taas can predispose you to liver cancer too.
[Edited on 1-16-2006 by oladulce]
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flyfishinPam
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http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020713/food.asp
Food handling is not taken seriously in Mexico. If there's no running water you can't wash your hands before you eat then the food handlers can't
wash their hands either! So what do you suppose they do after they relieve themselves? Most of us need to do this once or a couple of times each
day... 
Science News Online
Week of July 13, 2002; Vol. 162, No. 2
Bugged by Foreign Cuisine
Janet Raloff
One common experience that tourists encounter while traveling far from home is gut-wrenching diarrhea. In some developing countries, it's so common
that it's picked up geographic eponyms, like Montezuma's revenge in Mexico or Delhi belly on the Indian subcontinent.
Mexican cuisine typically offers diners tabletop condiments?from spicy chili liquids to diced-veggie salsas and guacamole?to customize the heat and
piquancy of their meals.
Cyberphoto
Rates of disease can be amazingly high. On average, 40 percent of U.S. visitors to Mexico develop the runs. Meanwhile, some 50 to 70 percent of
Europeans visiting such high-risk destinations as India and Kenya develop diarrhea during a 2-week stay, according to a 2000 report by an
international group of researchers.
Now, data emerge confirming what seems obvious in retrospect: Unrefrigerated condiments can serve as a major reservoir of the bacteria responsible for
travelers' diarrhea. Herbert L. DuPont, chief of internal medicine at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital in Houston, enjoys Mexican food. Indeed, this
infectious disease expert makes regular trips south of the border. Each time, he announces cheerfully, "I gain weight?and never get sick."
However, he's spent much of the past 2 decades probing why so many others do.
In 1980, he and his colleagues at the University of Texas Medical School in Houston correlated diarrhea incidence with the dining places of 130 U.S.
summer-school students during their first 3 weeks in Guadalajara, Mexico. Stool samples before the trip confirmed they had been disease-free.
The good news, that early study found, was that for the students who preventatively downed bismuth subsalicylate, the active ingredient in that
familiar, pink, over-the-counter liquid marketed for settling upset stomachs, the diarrhea incidence was a mere 14 to 30 percent. Among the other
students, cramping and frequent bathroom trips proved more common. Greater than half of those who ate from street vendors?even just
occasionally?developed runny stools. The percentage was a little smaller for those who ate 20 percent or fewer of their meals at restaurants or a
school cafeteria. For those eating out more often, more than 60 percent developed diarrhea. Fecal samples taken within a day of experiencing four or
more watery stools confirmed the presence of food-poisoning germs.
DuPont suspects that meals prepared at home proved safer because the cooks took hygiene more seriously with foods they'd be eating themselves or
providing to their kin.
In its most recent study, DuPont's team indicates why dining in Mexican restaurants can be so problematic. The researchers took samples of 71 sauces
from 36 popular Guadalajara restaurants and another 25 from 12 Houston establishments. All were eateries specializing in Mexican cuisine that weren't
part of restaurant chains.
In the June 18 Annals of Internal Medicine, the scientists report that although most of the sauces harbored bacteria, only those collected south of
the border hosted those associated with food poisoning and diarrheal disease.
Cultural differences
At each restaurant, DuPont's group had picked up a well-mixed tablespoon-size portion of one or more condiments that had been served in open dishes.
These are items that gringos know as green sauce, red sauce, guacamole, and pico de gallo.
In the lab, the team cultured, counted, and identified any microbes growing in the sauces. The only class of food-poisoning agents that turned up was
Escherichia coli. Most bacteria in this gut-dwelling family do not cause disease.
Overall, 66 percent of the sauces from Guadalajara and 40 percent of those collected in Houston bore E. coli. Moreover, where these bugs occurred,
counts in sauces from Mexican restaurants were invariably higher. Whereas populations in Houston sauces grew in the lab into 1 to 10 colonies, those
from south of the border often provided more than 1,000 colonies?and occasionally as many as 80,000.
But the most important difference, the new data show, is that while none of the Houston sauces carried pathogens, the Mexican condiments frequently
did.
Sickening E. coli come in two forms: enterotoxigenic and enteraggregative. Their machinery for wreaking disease is entirely different. Indeed, DuPont
says, although the symptoms are the same, "they cause two different diseases."
Members of the first?and far better known?group of the illness-inducing agents produce a poison or two. When the intestinal tract absorbs such a
poison, it begins leaking fluids. Voila, cramping diarrhea.
Enteraggregative E. coli, by contrast, attach to the lining of the gut. At each binding site, they produce damage that induces inflammation. It's
"that inflammation which leads to a watery outpouring" that a diner will later experience as diarrhea, DuPont explains. In the mid1990s, his team was
the first to recognize enteraggregative E. coli as a new and distinct group of food-poisoning agents. Last year, the team also showed that these germs
are ubiquitous globally and account for a large share of travelers' diarrhea.
In their latest paper, DuPont and his colleagues report that of Guadalajara sauces hosting E. coli, 9 percent were contaminated with enterotoxigenic
types, and 44 percent contained the enteraggregative bugs.
To eat well?
The prevalence and high concentrations of pathogens in the Guadalajara sauces aren't surprising, DuPont says. It's a matter of sanitation.
Houston restaurants invariably deliver their condiments to diners fresh from the kitchen. Most are either cool to the touch, having just come from the
refrigerator, or are steaming hot. In Mexico, those condiments sat on tables all day. Not only were they not refrigerated?or heated to sterilizing
temperatures?but they may have been touched by the fingers of successive diners.
If there was any surprise, he says, it was that even the acidic, spicy sauces proved hospitable to bacteria. DuPont had assumed that if a hot sauce
could burn a diner's stomach, bacteria would shun it. His new data now demonstrate that even such condiments can host dangerous concentrations of
germs.
However, DuPont cautions would-be tourists not to interpret these findings as a reason to eschew the charms?and cuisine?of foreign destinations.
He says the trick to eating safely in Mexico and many other lands where hygiene isn't up to U.S. standards is to restrict menu choices to four
categories:
Foods that are piping hot. When DuPont receives fish or another course that is only lukewarm, he returns it to the kitchen for reheating in the
microwave until it's sizzling.
Foods that are dry, such as bread.
Foods with an especially high sugar content, such as syrups, jellies, and honey.
Foods that are very acidic, like citrus fruit, or that can be peeled at the table immediately before consumption.
DuPont says that it's helpful to explain these requirements to a waiter before ordering. He finds most can get into the spirit of helping gringos eat
well.
References:
Adachi, J.A., . . . and H.L. DuPont. 2002. Enteric pathogens in Mexican sauces of popular restaurants in Guadalajara, Mexico, and Houston, Texas.
Annals of Internal Medicine 136(June 18):884-887. Abstract available at http://www.annals.org/issues/v136n12/abs/200206180-00009.htm...
_____. 2001. Enteroaggregative Escherichia coli as a major etiologic agent in traveler's diarrhea in 3 regions of the world. Clinical Infectious
Diseases 32(June 15):1706-1709. Available at http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID/journal/issues/v32n12/0...
Ericsson, C.D., . . H.L. DuPont. 1980. The role of location of food consumption in the prevention of travelers' diarrhea in Mexico. Gastroenterology
79(November):812.
von Sonnenburg, F., et al. 2000. Risk and aetiology of diarrhoea at various tourist destinations. Lancet 356(July 8):133.
Further Readings:
Raloff, J. 2001. Undercooking makes germs strong. Science News 159(June 2):344. Available to subscribers at http://www.sciencenews.org/20010602/note18.asp.
_____. 2000. Toxic bugs taint large numbers of cattle. Science News 157 (March 25):199.
_____. 2000. E. colii can take flight. Science News 155 (Jan. 23):63.
Schubert, C. 2001. Busting the gut busters. Science News 160(Aug. 4):74. Available at http://www.sciencenews.org/20010804/bob12.asp.
Sources:
Herbert L. DuPont
St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital
6720 Bertner Avenue
Houston, TX 77030
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020713/food.asp
From Science News, Vol. 162, No. 2, July 13, 2002
Copyright (c) 2002 Science Service. All rights reserved.
[Edited on 1-16-2006 by flyfishinPam]
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Oso
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One of the worst cases I've ever had was from a Big Mac in McAllen, TX. I'd been in the D.F. for 3 yrs without a return to the states and wanted a
"real American burger".
One of the most delicious things I've ever eaten was flautas de barbacoa with sour cream. (goat meat taquitos dorados) These were fried in a "disco"-
kinda like a wok, basically a 50 gal oil drum on end, a concave depression pounded into the top with an opening on the side for firewood. This was on
a dusty street next to a mechanic's shop. I was momentarily put off by the fact that the lady was pouring cooking oil from a motor oil can, but
concluded that she MUST have washed it well before putting cooking oil in it. After all, it was just a container and the sizzling flautas smelled
soooo good. They were great- hot crispy and the sour cream really complemented the taste of the meat. I had no problems later. I'm sure the
experts would say the high temperature of the cooking would have killed anything bad.
Now y'all have got me reluctant to go for clam c-cktails again  That was one of
my favorite roadside treats. Oh well, there's still ceviche. I think the lemon juice should make it less risky.
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Bob H
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Here is the photo I posted on the other thread, of Carmelita pointing out my old Viva Baja sticker, that Fishin' Rich took... |
David,
Your Viva Baja sticker is in a different place than where it is located in my first photo above. What's that all about?
Bob H
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Phil C
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It' too bad that Carmilitas thread has been hijacked to mostly a food posioning related thread......We've all had it, but I've never gotten it at her
place, Burritos and tamales have always been hot. As for the salsa , the last time we were there we took our own container and she gave it to us out
of the refrigerator. The part about the condiments has always made me wonder, especially at night running for the bano for the third time. Viva
Mexico!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob H
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Here is the photo I posted on the other thread, of Carmelita pointing out my old Viva Baja sticker, that Fishin' Rich took... |
David,
Your Viva Baja sticker is in a different place than where it is located in my first photo above. What's that all about?
Bob H |
My Viva Baja ambassador (now 'got baja?' ambassador) is Fishin' Rich, and he saw that some 'less than honorable' person removed the original one (he
put there)... So he rplaced it at the next available location.
Carmelita did not see the vandalism to her van by someone who hates 'Viva Baja', but was glad when Rich replaced it... Many Nomads get a smile when
they see them... Like an 'A' rating at a U.S. restaurant, I guess?? LOL!!!
My Tijuana printing company connection says the next batch of 'got baja?' stickers sould be ready this week... I am getting quite a big back log of
emailed and u2u'd requests!
I will announce when they are ready to mail to you all! Stand by amigos!
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flyfishinPam
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Sorry about that Phil
| Quote: | Originally posted by Phil C
It' too bad that Carmilitas thread has been hijacked to mostly a food posioning related thread......We've all had it, but I've never gotten it at her
place, Burritos and tamales have always been hot. As for the salsa , the last time we were there we took our own container and she gave it to us out
of the refrigerator. The part about the condiments has always made me wonder, especially at night running for the bano for the third time. Viva
Mexico! |
But with my background in microbiology and the food industry, I take food preparation very seriously. With that said though, I eat at roadside stands
all the time and know that Im taking a risk, but I live here and can afford time off if I do get sick. Visitors here for only a few days shouldn't
have to spend even one day sick because of something they ate. So I do give this advice to my tourists, to eat in established places that have good
refrigeration and wash up facilities and those that I believe prepare their dishes in a clean environment in order to prevent food borne illness. I'd
LOVE to see regular health inspections of eateries in our town and those are best conducted on an unnounced basis.
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