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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Loreto is Booming
  This really
isn't a trip report, but I just wanted to let you all know what is happening down in the Loreto Area. )nce again I must preface this with---I have
heard some of this and seen or heard firsthand some of it. So take it as you may. As you probably already know, there was a fire in Mulege. 4.5
hectares burnt up. Trailer park and those beautiful Palm trees. Que Lastima! Playa Ensenada Blanca has been purchased by a Mexican group. They are
planning to build a large hotel there. The old Mission Hotel on the malacon has been purchased by another Mexican group. It will be torn down and
replace with a five star four or five story hotel. Punta Bajo was sold to another Mexican group and will be developed. A new Leys Market is
scheduled to be built behind the secondario school on Calle Salvetierra. New project are popping up everywhere and there is still a mad rush to buy
overpriced property in Loreto. Alas, my little pueblo is changing rapidily. In Puerto Escondido the new Pemex Station is ready to be opened. Should
be in the next couple of weeks. Traffic is bad around 5:00 in the afternoon and the city is paying some more east west streets in hopes of slowing
down the traffic. Fishing was great the few times I was able to get out. Big yellowtail in the 30 to 45 lb. range. I was down for six weeks but
only fished twice as I am finishing up my condos so I can fish for Dodos in May, June and July....when I get back from Spain. Plenty of yellows near
marina---off Punta Lobo, La Choya and Punta Perro. Also good reports coming from San Bruno reef. Had lots of wind up until this past couple of
weeks. Weather is beautiful now and short and tee shirts are the uniform of the day. Hopefully more later.
Oh, the netting of yellowtail is not the fault of the Park National. Department of Pesca issues five or six permits and they are very expensive.
Really only good for a few months when the 'tails are schooling. Interesting fact---the tourists take more kilos of fish than the commercial group
every year. I was really mad when I first heard about the netting---but after looking into it further, found out a lot of good information and changed
my mind. The commercial guys have to eat too. Rumor has it that there may be a charge to use the ramp in town in the future. How much and when---no
one seems to know. The city hall is being refurbished---probably with money coming in from Fonatur. Took a good look at Loreto Bay and have not
changed my mind one bit from last report. Poorly constructed, overpriced and badly managed. Pams report on the rain forest is correct (unbelievable
as it may seem). Also the sewage from the family that are living in Loreto Bay is being pumped into a hugh septic tank and the liquid is used to
spray and water the golf course. Golf anyone? Thanks for reading my report. Wish I had more good news to give you but such is the way of
progress---if you can call this progress. Still love Loreto and always will. People great, climate wonderful and still a great place to
live....despite the growth.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
Registered: 3-23-2005
Location: oxnard, ca
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Mood: Tengo Flojera
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So your bummed about all the development, but you have to finish up your
condos...Hmmmm
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Phil C
Senior Nomad
Posts: 564
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: N. San Diego County/ Loreto Centro/Lopez Mateos
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Com'on Capt. coming back from Spain to finish up the condos....and que lastima Loreto.........
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capn.sharky
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One for me
and the other for two friends. 1000 square feet. BFD. Two stinkin condos does not make a huge project. You two must love it down in No Po Lo.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
Registered: 3-23-2005
Location: oxnard, ca
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Mood: Tengo Flojera
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where?
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Tomas Tierra
So your bummed about all the development, but you have to finish up your
condos...Hmmmm |
yer learnin' Tom!
Hey Cap'n, give us yer source on the commercial landings stats. My conclusion is that the lack of reported data by commercial liscencees
compromises the whole issue.
Emphasis on (sportfish)voluntary reporting may become a negative conundrum. While reporting sportfishing catch data becomes commonplace and for the
common good, it seems outweighed by the lack of data provided by commercial interests.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Phil C
Senior Nomad
Posts: 564
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: N. San Diego County/ Loreto Centro/Lopez Mateos
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Thanks for clearing that up Capt'n....didn't sound like you. Enjoy the paella in Malaga. Nonopolo, soy en el centro....
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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capn.sharky do you have any more info on the new Lay store. when will it open.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Well, I bought an existing house and fixed it up, and that makes me as bad as some investor who builds 6,000 units, so I can't complain.
A couple more additions...an "attractive" ofer has been made for Playa Salanita, and a European group has pitched a plan to city officials for a hotel
and golf course at San Bruno.
Still no word on the fate of Juncalito Beach, rumored to be owned by Fonatur.
Mission Hotel: I can't keep up with the rumors, that range from a Seattle man intending to restore it, to the wife of President Fox buying it, and
asking her hubby to pave the road to San Javier (Lopez Obrador was here and said he wants to pave the road too, as does Gov. Agundez). And, I also
heard there is a city law that no building can be taller that the mission tower, and that that stymied an earlier proposal to replace the mission with
condos.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Yellowtail netting
I can't say I'm very fond of the netting of schooling yellowtail, but i hope that they are collecting some real data on the commercial harvest. With
only a few permits, that supposedly pay big bucks, how hard can that be?
As for the contention that the rec catch is higher, that may be true. We are talking fleets of boats out there, every day the wind does not blow. The
cumulative catch may be pretty big.
But it could be difficult to reduce recreational harvest. I'd have no problem reducing the limit to 2 fish, but that would have little effect on the
harvest.
Last spring the yellowtail fishery really fizzled, I hope that doesn't happen again.
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
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The stats came from Profepa and the Park Service. Obviously, it is not an exact science on the private catch as many are not counted. However, they
do check the commercial catch and I believe that figgure to be a bit closer to the actual. Also, remember that the yellowtail move through the area.
How many are being netted in La Paz, Mulege or other areas. I am not a big fan of netting either, especially when the females are full of
eggs---BUT...I would rather see some control put on it with permits than none at all. I think the government is doing the best that they can to
control the fish population. Having been in Loreto for over 35 years I can say it is a big improvement over doing nothing. Profepa also controls the
clearing of land and removal of trees and cactus. Its a hugh job for three guys to do and they work pretty hard at their job. My main point was to
say that the Park National does not have anything to do with the permits for commercial fishing. Profepa only enforces the laws of Dept. of Pesca.
So any beef you might have, belongs with the Department of Pesca. No idea when the Leys will open---hasn't been started yet. As for Loreto City
laws and what they will permit...hah!!! Fonatur has all the control. Look at all the laws broken while Fonatur looks the other way. Finally, Don,
buying one house and fixing it up does not make you as bad as a group building a huge project like Lotbay. In fact, you bought in a Mexican
neighborhood (I assume) and improved the existing property. You are a good guy. Hopefully, Fonatur will keep the big projects out of the pueblo
Loreto and it can remain somewhat like it is and retain its charm. No one in their right mind can say that LB looks like a typical mexican
pueblo--which is what they advertise. Mexico and Fonatur have every right to develop any area that they want --- just as we have a right to protect
our borders and control immigration. Tourism is the biggest money maker Mexico has---petroleum is second. While we may not like what we see, it is
their country and they can and will do as they please within their borders. Someone once said, build it and they will come....well here they come.
After all, if it were not for us Americans and the canadians wanting to buy in Loreto, it would remain as it was......
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Capn Sharky has some good points and I must agree that some development is going to happen. Every year when we go home with big smiles on our faces
and tell our friends how great it is, then in some small way we are making some of the growth happen, but it is a small peninsula and I am starting to
think about where would I go next. I purposely avoided Mulege and Loreto because I thought they were too "turisty" years ago and ended up in San
Lucas Cove. I figured that it was so cold, ugly, and far from everthing that nobody in their right mind would want to develop there. But it looks
like we might get it too.
The point is that the small guy who does a house or two or does his own condo is, in my very humble opinion, a good thing. That person is watching
everything, getting to know the builders, using local labor, doing some things themselves, and that is growth. On the other hand, this Loreto Shores
kind of development is a real pain in the keister. They come in on a massive scale, change the rules, do half baked development, and their primary
focus is on making a buck, while I suspect that Capn is building something for his as well as a couple of friends future.
I have watched with interest the small scale development that Bob and Susan are doing at Los Frambes and come away with the conclusion that this
type of develpment is good for all of the people involved, but I do not have the same feeling about everything I hear and read about the Loreto Shores
project.
See http://www.mulege.org
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I agree Capn'. Some restrictions are better than none. Your point about 3 guys doing all the work underscores the problem in securing "good data" from
commercial concerns.
If the Dept. of Pesca shirks reponsibility for enforcement and Profepa is overwelmed as I am sure they are these days, well it isn't hard to
understand why the data leans as far as it does. Doesn't the Park involve themselves as stewards of the land? Like a "real" park ranger. What their
jurisdiction? Non-commercial violators or can they even cite someone for poaching or other violations?
Can you tell me if an official actually even ever looks at a (comm)hold when they dock?
Sportfishers on the other hand feel a duty to provide numbers but that's the scary part. If left to ones discretion, will/would they(the commercials)
be honest and forthcoming. Are the gill-netters "really" getting monitored or do many slip through the big holes in the Profepa net?
True about large scale coastal projects. Particularily, how they impact the immediate shoreline. Projects such as Bob & Susans' however don't fit
that mold. That is unless they put in wall to wall casas along the beach and choke off the shore with concrete and grass. They also are not saddled up
next to a protected(sic) marine sanctuary.
It's all about impact. Collectively we may all play a part as the puzzle gets assembled and filled in. That's when I start worrying.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Fishing Commercial or Recreational
Do the recreational fisherman sell a few lbs. to cover expenses? In most areas the rec fisherman put more money into the local economy thru all the
usual expenses. Regarding the overall toll taken on the targeted fish, that depends on seasons, limits and methods. Commercial quotas and recreational
quotas? It's all been done here and there. Don't have to re-invent the wheel.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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Give me PROOF!
| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
Interesting fact---the tourists take more kilos of fish than the commercial group every year. |
So where did this FACT come from? And what proof do they have of this? IF the person that told you this can back it up with real fact and scientific
data then I could consider that there was some truth to this, but there is none!
And on the netting being the parks fault, well I actually didn't say that but I do blame them because netting spawning Yellowtail is part of their
management plan and it is a very bad policy which I will do everything in my power to change. Sharkey you'll see some changes soon. The pangueros
are agreeing to some changes that will make this area a truly sustainable one, without the bullchit LB lingo, we talk the talk and walk the walk and
we're not doing it to sell homes and property but to live and to pass on an incredible natural legacy to our children.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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I can answer some of these questions Sharks Baja
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I agree Capn'. Some restrictions are better than none. Your point about 3 guys doing all the work underscores the problem in securing "good data" from
commercial concerns.
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Absolutely correct. The few guys that are doing the work seem concerned enough but there are things Capn sharkey doesn't see that have to do with
politics, money and greed and its very real. And how in the hell can three dudes check every commerical, private and sport vessel for counts,
violations, or collect reasonably sound data? I have a scientific background so it will be difficlut to convince me that this is being done because I
am also in the fishing industry in this town.
| Quote: | If the Dept. of Pesca shirks reponsibility for enforcement and Profepa is overwelmed as I am sure they are these days, well it isn't hard to
understand why the data leans as far as it does. Doesn't the Park involve themselves as stewards of the land? Like a "real" park ranger. What their
jurisdiction? Non-commercial violators or can they even cite someone for poaching or other violations?
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Well when I spoke to the park about the netting over a month ago I wad told that the netters were within their rights to net fish loaded with eggs
because the park's management plan allows it. However when I informed the head of the park (whose name escapes me right now) he was saddened to hear
that they were full of eggs. It made me furious (after I left his office) to find out that they were oblivious to something that they should have
known about.
| Quote: | | Can you tell me if an official actually even ever looks at a (comm)hold when they dock? |
Very rarely do they check commericals. I've seen the female head of pesca one time checking urchin divers bounty but she has since been removed from
her Loreto post. Truthfully the sport boats are checked many, many times more than the commercials. For instance my boat has been checked 12 times
this year and it has happened when tied to the floating dock at the marina and when he's pulling the boat from out of the ramp. They issue papers to
us each time we're checked. Usually its the boat's permit and paperwork that gets checked then they sometimes look inside the fish hold and if
clients are onboard they ask for licenses. If clients are not onboard they call my office whre I always keep a copy of the licenses on file. I have
NEVER ONCE see them actually measure and weigh fish that we brought in in the ten years I've been in operation- So Sharkey with the amount of boats I
put in the water and they've never actually measured weights of these fish, how the hell can PROFEPA come up with this ludicrous information?? 
| Quote: | | Sportfishers on the other hand feel a duty to provide numbers but that's the scary part. If left to ones discretion, will/would they(the commercials)
be honest and forthcoming. Are the gill-netters "really" getting monitored or do many slip through the big holes in the Profepa net?
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Yes it is traditional the pangueros have been trying to attain number and volume but only at the request of their clientele. things are changing. I
have met with many pangueros who like my new idea (yet to be announced, but will be think weekend) of no take billfish (all released) and they would
also like to see the number of Yellowtail limited out to two or three. We will be proposing these ideas in our new park management proposals......
and the gillnetters are not being monitored.
---well in looking at your question again I misunderstood and answered more about the sport pangas.
As a sport boat we are supposed to submit a bitacora which is a two page form that lists names and license number of the anglers, port captain and
registry info of the vessel, id of the captain, location fished, and type and quantity of catch along with estimated length and weight. Truthfully we
subimt this for our contract boats and we charge them 10 pesos to do the paperwork and submit it to the office. But in reailty many pangueros don't
even kow how to write and don't ever bother with it until the time nears for their sport permit to be renewed, then they'd better have some on file.
They are filled out by us based on what the captains tell us and its a guess at best as usually they're done for two week blocks for all of the
particular captains trips, and there is no way one can remember exactly what they catch. As a former scientist, this is absolutely NOT scientific
data! I had suggested MANY times that the PESCA or the PArk have students in all of the landing locations tack actual counts and measurements of the
catches of both commerical and sport caught fish. this would cost very little and would be an excellent opoortunity for a promosing student of
biology. They just thank me for my crazy ideas and continue to move on. Frankly in my opinion, they have no interest in learning the truth or making
it public knowledge.
I won't give my opinion on the development stuff, but Sharkey is right. Loreto has been bought and sold and its losing its character right in front
or our eyes.
[Edited on 4-7-2006 by flyfishinPam]
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Phil C
Senior Nomad
Posts: 564
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: N. San Diego County/ Loreto Centro/Lopez Mateos
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The town of Loreto is indeed in a building boom, what is going on out in Nopolo set aside. Single family homes are being built on lots, existing
residencies are being renovated and added on to. This is not only Americans and Canadians, but lots of Mexicans as well. My neighbors are renovating
thier home both inside and out. This construction is all by local labor an contractors. Lots of block, cement, wood, electrical, and plumbing supplies
are being purchased in the local market. Some new homes are being constructed and or finished out in Mira Mar. This is all trickel down money, but I
dont think it's from L.B. While some of the workers are being "housed" in Loreto and may spend some of their wages there, I think most of that money
goes out of the local economy. (out of the country). The new construction in town along with a vigorous new eco-toursim industry, and the the old
fishing tourism has provided the local economy with a boost. For about a year after 9/11 town was empty of travelers, now things have changed and
you're right Captian here they (we?) come.
[Edited on 4-7-2006 by Phil C]
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Where's the money coming from? As Phil says, much of the building and remodeling activity is by and for Mexicans. It's amazing to drive around town
and see something being built all over the place. And I see many new cars and trucks.
There are more jobs from tourism...for a while we would wonder how restaurants stayed in business, now sometimes we need reservations. More boat trips
to see the islands and the whales. Two more car rental agencies.
But real estate is a biggie. Many folks have gotten checks from sales of ejido land. Some folks have sold lots or houses they owned in town. And the
real estate "commissions," well, I won't go there now.
Also, credit has become more available.
And although Loreto Bay may be using mostly outsiders, there are local Mexicans working for them, and it seems a growing number of gringos as well.
And many of us gringos are spending more than just tourism dollars. We've bought fridges, TV, microwave, furniture...and hired local labor for
construction and remodeling.
I can't blame Mexicans for wanting prosperity. And some of the development, such as a highway, bank and airport, I find useful.
But I think they have sold out to developers, and given up far more than is necessary. Sure, I have no problem with Loretanos getting more of what
Americans have, but that should include not just jobs and real estate dollars, but accessible public parks and beaches as well. That's something
Fonatur and state and local government just don't get.
And I still wonder, and maybe worry a bit, about where the water will come from and what it will cost.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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sharks baja please explane (sic) in this caption??
(They also are not saddled up next to a protected(sic) marine sanctuary.)
do you think the marine park is worse off then befor?? do you think it is harming the area??
just asking your opinion
have a good one jerry
jerry and judi
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Phil C
Senior Nomad
Posts: 564
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: N. San Diego County/ Loreto Centro/Lopez Mateos
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My two cents.... So far there are only a few residents at L.B. When (?) the project is complete or at sometime between there is going to be a sewage
crisis. (not to mention the water,where are you Skeet?) So they pump it into ponds that don't leach into the sea of cortez? Now the only infastructure
is what FONOTUR installed years ago. What's next?
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