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capn.sharky
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Immigration Problems
I am curious, what effect, if any, do you guys think the immigration situation in the U.S. will have with relationships in Mexico. What do you say
when your Mexican friends ask you about it. Obviously, most of us are probably neutral on the subject or have mixed feelings. We all know what we go
through when we get to Mexico. Lastly, in light of the terrorist situation, do you feel that we have a need to protect our borders. Again, my
question does not ask how you feel about the U.S. policy---only about the effect it has on are friendships with the Mexicans where we live.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Pescador
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I have had that discussion with several friends in Mexico and invariably they almost all agree that we are being ridiculous that we have not opened up
the borders and freely admitted everyone that wanted to come. The jobs are waiting for them and how could we possibly stand in the way of their
opportunities.
Now I need to preface this with an understanding of their socio-economic standard, which I think has some bearing. Most of the people that I had
those discussions with were of working class, which obviously has some impact on their understanding of the issues. I do believe they were looking at
things in a pretty simplistic and basic level of the issue. I think that it will be interesting during this coming year to have the same discussion
with people of a higher socioeconomic level to see if that changes the perspective.
They also seem to be confused that there could be any correlation between how they are treated when they cross the US border and how I am treated
when I visit Mexico. Like why would I want to work in Mexico, own property, or do healthcare. They also found it amazing that people in the US would
go out of their way to make signs in their stores in both languages, or attempt to communicate in another language in terms of customer satisfaction.
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bonanza bucko
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This whole flap over immigration is not about Mexicans. We all love them. They are part of our family. But so are Norwegians in our case and we
surely don't want 12,000,000 Norwegians coming here to use up our schools and hospitals and to set up Norwegian communities where only that language
is spoken and where American culture and laws don't get respected.
We must have control of our borders for security and economic reasons. That surely doesn't say that we don't like Mexico or Mexicans. But I'm very
sure some Mexicans will see it that way. That is too bad....and that is their problem.
A big threat is the upcoming Mexican election where the communist mayor of Mexico City is running against the candidate from V. Fox's party. Should
that guy win we would have three leftist dictators on our southern borders: Castro, Hugo Chavez and the new guy in Mexico. I'm sure this calculation
is going through G.W. Bush's mind right now.
But the bottom line is that immigrants must be assimilated into our society as Americans or they must be forced over time to return to where they came
from. We cannot stand a massive infusion of people who want to export their culture here and to replace ours with it. That is exactly what has been
happening in parts of LA and Orange county. That is what all the Mexican flags in the demonstrations two weeks ago were about. Anybody who doesn't
understand that American citizens simply can't put up with that is badly mistaken.
The Mexicans who are members of our family are American citizens who got here the legal way. They know English and they know our laws and history.
They belong here. Those who don't want to assimilate don't belong here permanently. I think most Mexican citizens can understand that.
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leadmoto
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It's not about the people, it's about the govenment. These are the wrong protest in the wrong country. If Mexico's government did their job better
and was not so corrupt, than the people would not be flocking to the U.S.A.
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Skeet/Loreto
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There is only one way to sove this Problem,
Build the Wall{Electronic }
Treat the remaining people with Dignity;
Deport the Criminals.
Keep the Workers and bring them to a Legal Status.
This wall is not like the Berlin Wall which kept people "IN'
this wall would be to keep the "Bad People" out!!
I have many friends who went to the States and returned after several years,never to want to go Back to the States!
Read "Mexifornia" for a good look at the Picture.
Skeet/Loreto
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Pescador
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OK, here is an e-mail I received this week.
iM GoIn tO MExicO
Dear Presydent Bush,
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border
from the US into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.
So would you mind telling your buddy Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for the entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all the serviced I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English Speaking Teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and History.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag glying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfst and lunch.
8 I will need a local Mexican dirver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak
English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on JUly 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and I do not want to follow any labor or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the
economy.
I know that this is an easy request becuase you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres.
Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with Mr Cheney.
Thank you so much for your kind help.
Tourist Joe and Family
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bajajudy
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I got that email too.
I asked my friend not to send me anymore emails like that.
Those kinds of emails do nothing to help and everything to hurt by reenforcing stereotypical misguided opinions.
I find it offensive.
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jack
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajajudy
I got that email too.
I asked my friend not to send me anymore emails like that.
Those kinds of emails do nothing to help and everything to hurt by reenforcing stereotypical misguided opinions.
I find it offensive. |
It might be a little offensive but there is a few grains of truth in that e-mail. Even I can see that and I'm from Canada where we take in every
immigrant through our revolving door.
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Juan del Rio
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Teddy Roosevelt Speaks on Immigration...
Thought this was an interesting spin on the current thread:
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall
be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or
origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided
allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American
flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to
the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Like I've always said, "Irish I was Mexican".
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Ken Cooke
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
I am curious, what effect, if any, do you guys think the immigration situation in the U.S. will have with relationships in Mexico. What do you say
when your Mexican friends ask you about it. |
Suzanne and I have friends in Tijuana that we visit fairly regularly. The topic hasn't come up with the wife's side of the family (all Mexican), but
the husband (native of Minnesota) talks about it regularly.
The guys on the www.4x4survivors.org forum haven't brought it up with me at all. Nor has Aldo Santini of Santini Gallery in Rosarito Beach. He's a great guy,
very humble, but has not brought up this topic - probably because it is a very negative one that everyone wants to sidestep.
When in Mexico, I do my best to speak Spanish as does my wife, and that gesture alone shows our Mexican friends that we're friendly people and not
hostile towards los Latinos al otro lado.
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Nor has Aldo Santini of Santini Gallery in Rosarito Beach. |
Don't want to hijack this thread but:
The forum might be interested to know that Aldo's father Livio was a very celebrated chef. Anyone care to guess why?
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capn.sharky
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When asked about it......
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Paula
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I think this thread needs hijacking! As it stands now, it should be off-topic. A specific question was asked, and only one post (Ken's) addressed
the question.
So.... did Livio cook for a well-known person? Or develop a well-known dish? This, to me, is quite interesting...
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capn.sharky
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oops sorry! When asked by my friends in Mexico, I calmly explain that after 9-11 we, in the U.S., do have the right to control the flow accross our
borders--just as they do in Mexico. That most who cross are good people just looking to better the lives of their families. But, some are mules
carrying drugs and some might have criminal records or could be terrorists. That the population in Southern California is about 50% Mexican (latino)
and that the legal Mexicans can do very well for themselves here. I also tell them it is a shame that they do not have more opportunity in Mexico as
it is a very rich country (petroleum, silver, gold and much more). Finally, that we are neighbord and that we should be able to help one another more
than we do now....but, we need to control all who come into the two countries. I think they understand that very well. They do not want terrorism in
their country any more than we do. I am hoping that the friction between the US and Mexico will subside and that we will become good neighbors to
each other in the future. I posed the original question to see if there were others that were being asked by their Mexican friends and what their
answers were. Hopefully, we can do much as individuals to foster good relations with our southern neighbors on a one to one basis. On this side of
the border (the U.S. side) we can also do much to change the image the average American has of the Mexican people. I can't ever remember seeing a
Mexican in Baja with a sombrero, laying up against a cactus with an empty bottle of tequila in his hand. I do not find them to be lazy, uneducated,
backward people. They are a friendly, helpful, family minded people (on the whole) and are hard workers. They are different from us in the way they
think. Don't like stress and are not aggressive like us. For this, I love it down there. Also, I do not believe the stories that Pres. Fox is
sending up his unwanted criminal people and unemployable. As the middle class grows in Mexico, so will the country itself. I don't think of Mexico
as a third world country anymore. I have many Mexican friends here in So. Ca. (both legal and not legal) and they live as we do and enjoy being
American. They still have some customs from the old country just as the Italians, Germans, Chinese, Irish and other groups do. For the most part,
they just fit in very nicely.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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MSZULCK
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As a non-American I can only be very amazed by the responses the discussion Captain Sharky initiated. Nobody seems to realize that the majority of
persons from Mexico and countries further South who cross the border into the USA without the proper procedure, do find work. Recently I was in the
USA and on several occasions I saw something I couldn't believe. In certain streets of towns Latino men are waiting to be picked up to work for the
day. While ten miles away the Border Patrol checks cars on the Highway for smuggling people into the country... As long as persons without proper
papers can find work, and this completely in the open, obviously they will come. The truth is that the laws for hiring persons without proper
documents for little money in the USA are not seriously enforced. That is the core of the problem. If those laws were enforced no wall needed to be
build. In Europe they apply the strategy that anyone caught having non-documented laborers working has to pay a fine of 40.000 Euros = almost 50.000
USD. In European restaurants for example the dishwashing was done by non-documented workers but no restaurant-owner risks this anymore. Result ? The
price of the food in the restaurants has increased slightly and so what ? The discussion should not be about the Mexicans coming, but about the
question why the laws within the USA vis a vis American citizens wanting to make more money are not enforced.
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Fatboy
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| Quote: |
They also found it amazing that people in the US would go out of their way to make signs in their stores in both languages, or attempt to communicate
in another language in terms of customer satisfaction.
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Can you expand on that?
| Quote: |
I think this thread needs hijacking! As it stands now, it should be off-topic. A specific question was asked, and only one post (Ken's) addressed the
question.
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To be fair Pescador also answered the question...Also it should not be in the Off-Topic section either. It is a valid question that can have real
world consquences for travelers.
Problem is we seem to have some loud, vocal racist folks out there that want an 'All White' america, which is a bunch of BS and I for one am really
sick of hearing about it.
Americans are not loosing jobs that american workers want to illegal immigrants. I do agree that people coming into this should do so legally though.
Whether they are Mexicans, English, Chinese and so on.
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Ken Cooke
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I spent several days with an undocumented immigrant from Iran who came into this country via Mexicali in search of Political asylum. This gentleman
told me everything involved in immigrating from Iran to Mexico and how he worked in Mexicali, learned to speak Spanish, hired his coyote, and crossed
the border. Now, to your average American, this information would scare them greatly. Since, news outlets like Fox News report on this sort of thing
happening perhaps hourly.
Did I have horrible things to say to "Aamil" about immigrating illegally into the United States when I met him in 2003?
No. I personally do not feel it is my duty to "Judge" others as if I am the Dept. of Homeland Security.
I got to know "Aamil" on a 1:1 personal basis, and did not let his pending asylum status cloud my perception of who this individual was on a deeper
level. Nor did I question why he chose to come to the U.S.A. - to possibly terrorize my country???
Now, being African-American, I learned all about domestic terrorism from my parents who moved to Riverside from the Deep South in the 1940s and 50s.
Terrorism was something that gripped the Black community in parlyzing fear throughout the day, but in particular from dusk until dawn during the Civil
rights era and beyond. See the movies, "Mississippi Burning" or "Far From Heaven" for a good example. Sadly, Fear and terrorism are on brilliant
display in both of these films.
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Pescador
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It is interesting that if you are perceived to disagree with someone's opinion, then you are usually "one of those". Actually, I used to spend a lot
of time in Denver with programs that assisted immigrants with issues that they ran into every day. So I have a lot of friends who are in this country
on an illegal basis and I have mixed feelings about that issue. On one hand, I really wish that they would change the immigration system to properly
fit the market economy that is reality based. As long as there is money to be made, people will find ways to overcome a small inconveniece such as a
political border. Either we can not or choose not to enforce the rules so let's take a look at the rules. Seems the only thing we can change in the
"illegal status" is the "illegal".
But, I (which I think the e-mail letter speaks directly to) take great exception to the fact that the system presently enforced is that we have
11,000,000 illegal immigrants in the system and we are going around having debates about things like whether or not we should honor scholarships,
whether or not we should be providing welfare and medical care for people who have not paid into the system, whether we have to be so "politically
correct" that we post and display flags of another country when there is a well accepted code of ethics and behavior for that is generally accepted,
and whether or not we provide all kinds of services that have been funded by those people who have paid into the system by taxes. So I love the
Mexican people who are victims of the sytem that is broken in the same way that I love the people who are carrying an extra burden that they did not
ask for and that, to me, is what the e-mail letter tends to address.
So, I do not accept that the issue is one of prejudice, at least from my perspective, but one that goes deeper into our need to feel good about
ourselves on some level and politicians who play into that and have no qualms about spending tax dollars for those who have not paid into the system.
So, in deeper discussions with my mexican friends, they sometimes ask the question about why do we hand out so many things to those who come to our
country and then tell them it is illegal. At the same time they freely admit that until they get some hand on the corruption and graft in their own
country that the situation can only get worse. If you can't find a job and take care of your family you are forced to risk life and limb for that
opportunity.
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bajabound2005
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has ANYONE see the movie "A Day Without a Mexican" -- that's another thread in its own!
Friends don't let friends drink white zinfandel.
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Ken Cooke
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabound2005
has ANYONE see the movie "A Day Without a Mexican" -- that's another thread in its own! |
I thought about renting the DVD...can you give us a summary???
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