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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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U.S. troops on the border....
President is talking about putting soldiers on the border to shut down illegal crossings....(he finally may do something I like)....I am wondering
what this will do to the BAJA side when arriving people can't cross and will still be flooding into the border cities....what will that situation be
like?
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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there are probably 20 or 30 tunnels in T.J alone. anyone can get a free ticket as long as they agree to Carry a package through with them. so if they
cant cross in the desert it is only going to increase the amount of people to Carry drugs through the tunnels.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Airport Bum
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 If Bush puts the National Guard or any other military on the border it will
only be temporary. He'll get approval from all the folks who have wanted him to secure the borders for six years and then congress will pass amnesty
while we're all happily looking the other way.
The Guard can't stay there permanently and the required 15-20,000 border partrol agents won't get hired before the Guard has to go home so the effect
will be to make the American electorate Dumb and Happy while Amnesty gets put into place. After that there will be another flood of illegals and the
situation will get worse and worse.
What's obviously needed is: 1.)Permanent enforecement of the border; 2.)A real guest worker program with ID cards that can't be counterfieted and,
3.) Enforecement of the existing laws.....putting some employers in jail for violating them.
If Bush and the preening, pandering liars in congress do the above along with a permanent securing of the borders we will have something but I don't
think either he, the congress or the rest of us have the brains and the political will to get that done.
Bush also has to worry about getting the Mexican "street" up in arms mad about all us Gringos enforceing our laws...there's an election down there and
if the Socialist ex Mayor of Mexico City wins we will have a Castro/Chavez buddy running our neighbor to the south. That could get dicey. The last
time we had that situation the Mexicans did their periodic "agrarrian reform" and took over all the private land not held by somebody both poor and
Mexican. That, of course, produced more desperately poor people who had to sneak into the good ole USA to eat.
Sorry to be so pessimistic but we Americans lost all of our cajones on the last day of WWII. We desperately need some leaders with both cajones and
brains and we ain't got any.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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Unfortunately bucko I think your right.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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? Quien Sabe ?
We can all speculate, but we'll know for sure Monday Evening. I have no idea what GWB will propose. I do know he is under great pressure from his
advisors and the Base to propose a strong enforcement policy. The GOP is well aware that the numbers are on their side if they can assume a position
of strength and then make immigration the number one national issue in November and demagogue every DEM that takes the other position.
Like others, I am concerned over how a more forceful approach will affect those of us who cross the border on a regular basis and live in Baja. The
Mexs' have been known to shoot themselves in the foot before and I wouldn't be surprised if they exercised their pique by cracking down on the Gringo
border traffic.
To be intellectually consistent, I promise not to complain when the policy affects me adversely.
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Airport Bum
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 Upon some sober further consideration I think that it won't take long for the
voting public to figure out that we are being scammed if Bush puts +/-5000 troops on the border as has been advertised while the pandering poltroons
in congress pass amnesty.
A little math might not be too complicated for us all to understand: 2000 miles of border; 1 trooper every 300 yards or 1000 feet; three 8 hour
shifts per day equals 2000 miles of border X five troopers per mile X three shifts = 30,000 troopers PERMANENTLY!....or at least until we hire and
train 30,000 high school drop outs to replace them.
It shouldn't take long to figure out either that Bush can fix the whole mess Monday morning before the speech by putting about 200 CEOs in jail for
hiring illegals....all he'd have to do is send the INS to every Home Depot in the country and haul the boss to the hoosegow.
He could also call up Vicente Fox and tell him to deploy 30,000 of his troops on the border looking south....or we'll call in all our notes which are
past due.
If don't do something creative and fast the good ole USA will become a new version of Tijuana......all the people who are now paying the bills for
free everything for the illegals will leave Califonia first and the country second. Take a trip to the emergency room anywhere in Southern Calfornia
to see the evidence....and to pay the bill.
The current situation could only have been allowed to happen by someone insane, asleep or traiterous. I think it's probably number two...but there is
some doubt.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Catch 22
The much-disparaged "Minuteman" project showed that better coverage along the border would discourage crossings. Data showed a decrease in crossings
wherever they deployed. I suppose the U.S. can claim that the decrease was a result of their notifying the Mexican Government regarding the specific
locations the Minutemen were patrolling, but, Clearly that is somewhere the Government doesn't want to go.
We'll have to see how Sheriff Joe's Posse Patrol works out. At least he is putting forth a concerted effort to get the situation under control in his
jurisdiction.
As far as the Drumbeat for arresting and jailing employers, Bucko should be encouraged by the fact that more and more Conservative officials are
falling into step. It's ironic that the unintended consequence of the Liberals constant droning about a crackdown on employers may actually
accomplish that. The Libbies never really wanted that crackdown, but simply used it as a retort to the clamor for increased enforcement.
Be careful what you wish for.
[Edited on 5-13-2006 by MrBillM]
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viabaja
Nomad
Posts: 277
Registered: 10-6-2003
Location: Georgia
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Be prepared to pay for $10 a head lettuce, $5 tomatotes, triple landscaping costs, etc.... Bush needs a realty check. However, the house of Bush/Saud
have trippled my energy stocks!!!!!!
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Expensive Veggies ?? No problem.
The oft-repeated canard regarding immigration enforcement and skyrocketing produce prices is a Red-Herring.
The latest FACTS regarding Vegetable and other crops shows that the labor involved in picking that vegetable constitutes ONLY Fifteen percent of the
retail price of that product. A doubling or Tripling of that labor cost would only raise that price an insignificant amount. Much of that increase
would be offset by the increase in Taxes collected from LEGAL workers and it would benefit the domestic workforce.
I say let's give it a try. IF it turns out that this labor force is needed and benefits the U.S. economy, then let's pass a comprehensive Bracero
program to bring in the labor, tax it and make sure we know who and where they are. We do know for a fact that an Amnesty program will NOT work.
It's already been tried once during the Reagan Administration. That should be an eye opener to anyone proposing it. At that time, we were "solving"
the problem of one and one-half million illegals. We now have a NEW 11 million bunch to deal with.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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How do they get away with not paying taxes? How do they do payroll taxes. Sorry, I was never taught how to screw the IRS SSA Medicare FICA and State
out of employee taxes.
My accountant wouldn't let me anyway, even if I wanted to..
Do they pay em under the table? Cook the books? Inquiring minds would like to know.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by viabaja
Be prepared to pay for $10 a head lettuce, $5 tomatotes, triple landscaping costs, etc.... Bush needs a realty check. However, the house of Bush/Saud
have trippled my energy stocks!!!!!! |
yes but look at what you are going to save on medical and welfare costs.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by viabaja
Be prepared to pay for $10 a head lettuce, $5 tomatotes, triple landscaping costs, etc.... Bush needs a realty check. However, the house of Bush/Saud
have trippled my energy stocks!!!!!! |
Why should we subsidize US agriculture? We're obviously not paying the market rate for labor. If the market were to dictate, real wages would
probably have increased over the past 10 years instead of decreased for most industries. We cry when other countries subsidize certain industries
claiming they are not "free-traders," etc. Maybe it's time for us (the United States) to march to its own tune.
Zac
Zac
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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30,000 National Guard troops?
I'm assuming some of these are the same guys who had to leave their jobs and families to go to Iraq, and are not being allowed home after their tours
are up. Once they finally get back here we're going to say "hey, sorry, no job, no family for you, go sit in a shack out in the desert? Oh, if you
live in the Southwest, you can have weekends off to drive home to see your family, but with gas at $3.50 a gallon and no job, you won't be able to
afford it. And if you don't live in the Southwest, you're just SOOL."
That, I have to say, is totally screwed up. Schwarzenneger said pretty much the same thing today, and although I don't see eye to eye with him on a
lot of things, I think he's right on this one. The only thing dumber than this is spending billions of dollars on a border fence. Every time I hear
about that I think of the "Whack-A-Mole" game. It'd be a total waste of money. I'd rather have them spend it on food and bulletproof vests for our
troops and armor plating for their Humvees. Illegal immigration isn't killing and maiming dozens of Americans every week.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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bajarich
Nomad
Posts: 463
Registered: 1-13-2005
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It's only an election year stunt. He can't be too serious, it would fly in the face of all those companies that support him. They are the ones who
hire the illegals. Unfortunately, globalization has forced this upon us, it's all about cheap labor. If the U.S. were suddenly forced to go back to
paying real wages, it would be more than the price of lettuce that will go up.
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TMW
Select Nomad
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I doubt the fruit and veggies will rise much. Some smart guy will import them. A lot of the workers are paid cash as day labor. Many are worked thru a
third party. Every gardener I see here is Hispanic. Some legal some not, I don't know. All are paid cash. Do they pay taxes??????? Same goes for maid
service and tree trimmers. The toyota dealer has mostly Hispanics so I assume he takes out taxes.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Monday's Speech
The word on the news is that staffers are leaking the fact that the upcoming speech will set well with HOUSE Republicans.
The House, of course, passed the most restrictive of the Immigration bills under consideration, leading to the street protests.
If the leaks are correct, it will be as I said earlier. GWB would be reaching out to his base in anticipation of the upcoming election.
We'll see.
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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I can comment to the agricultural end on this. I am moving to a new place here in Salome. Across the street are 24 illegal living in two 31' travel
trailers. They are not working yet as the melons aren?t ready. They are hungry and the people try to help, but several people have been broken into
already. Within the month there will be 3000 of them here (we are a town of about 2400, they get here early so they can get a hot bunk for 5 bucks a
day instead of living in the desert). A guest worker program is necessary. I hear people say all the time that Americans will do these jobs, I call
bullshi#.... These guys spend 10 to 12 hours a day out in the 100+ weather, bent at the back. Most of these guys work for labor contractors and not
the farms. They get paid, by check (I stand in line with them while they cash them); they get taxes taken out of their 7.50 an hour. I worked in PHX
as a packaging/shipping manager at an auto accessories manufacturer, we paid 9 bucks an hour and the only legal help we could get were illiterate
Mexicans that had good fake papers or somehow got legal. We always had an add out. If you can?t get legal help at 9buck to work inside how do you
get ag. Labor?
BTW. don't believe for second that China is not ready to provide our vegetables.
I have less invested in Mexico than most of you, but it has become my lifestyle to travel into Mexico 15 to 20 times a year. I hope that will
continue but have my doubts.
I don't advertise my politics on the internet, just that you could use my prospective on this
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
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the "great wall" of USA..........
ok....when did the USA decide to put in the interstate high way system? and how long did it take to be substantially complete and useable, for the
most part? And it's a given that it was expensive, so what?
well, if China could build a wall to keep out mongol hordes, what - 2000 miles long? - and do it in medievel times - and i mean a substantial wall,
why CAN"T the USA build a great wall? We have people that would be willing to do the work for fair pay, much more than they'd make "at home".......and
we buy their oil anyway that can be used to pave along side it. The quaries in the southwest can yield the goods for the aggregate and stone and
blocks....
build the wall. whatever it costs and man it.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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jimgrms
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
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Sharks people get away with not paying taxes by claiming 10 dependents on thier w 2 form and as they use phony ss numbers they get away with it
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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It's not the ag jobs people are talking about that Americans will do but the construction jobs. Also meat packing and manufacturing jobs. Construction
normally pay $20+ an hr. Union more. But they are hiring illegals (non-union) for $10-12 an hr. That's the rub. Right now there is a mother and two
daughters waiting to be sent back to Mexcico from Merced. They've been here for like 15 years before being caught. The mother has been working for the
county. The oldest daughter works for Bank of America while attending college and the youngest daughter is/was a senior in high school and an honor
student. This is the kind of case that tears you up. They're good people with good jobs, paying taxes and getting an education. But they are here
illegally. What do you do. Certainly the mother and oldest daughter are doing work Americans will do.
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