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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
Oh. OK, I misunderstood. My bad. I thought you meant deciding how big Loreto and vicinity will get. Sorry 'bout that.
You do get to decide.
Baja BIG Fish
[Edited on 7-18-2006 by Don Alley] |
Actually I like staying small.
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Ricardo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
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Whew, thanks Dave, just took my Meds, I must admit we were on site during construction to ensure the rules were followed. (as best we could)We did run
into a few problems that had to be solved with pesos, and without being there I think many many things would have been omitted or hidden. I did say
corruption may be a problem just didn't say how much of a problem. HA HA.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Building inspectors? Do they have building inspectors in Loreto?
Here's a house wall under construction:
Pillars and beams of rebar reinforced concrete, with cemented block between.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Ricardo
I don't think you have any worries of shoddy construction in La Paz, To get your bldg permit the architect draws what you want then an engineer has to
approve it, I am of the belief that here in La Paz their reputations are at stake. Since I have done a lot of construction I take notice of all that
I see, and I have only seen good construction in this area.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Don
That construction is typical and good if they have rebar in the cadena, and have enough cement in the concrete.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Wakemall is right. They have hidden the bad construction. I guarantee that the first earthquake or hurricane will put the place on the ground. As
for building inspectors---where the hell did that come from. We got no stinkin building inspectors. The Mexicans that I have talked to that work
down in Loreto Bay tell me they would not put their own families in these places. Also, this is susposed to be a copy of an original Mexican
pueblo---HA!!!! Yes---it looks good after it was stucco'ed over. Also, where is the desalination plant and the grey water plant they promised. What
happened to the rain forrest plan Pam talked about a couple of months ago. Nope---can't convince me of the quality of the Loreto Bay company. I have
watched this project go up from day one and they couldn't give me one free.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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capitolkat
Senior Nomad
Posts: 510
Registered: 3-9-2006
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Baja Life magazine
There is an extensive article on this project in the current issue of Baja Life. Pages of questions about this project were posed to Mr. Butterfield
and some dealt with construction. The adobe style was discussed and a rebuttal was offered that indicated that adobe was not suitable in areas of high
humidity. While it waas attractive and resisted bugs and bullets it was subject to crumbling and settling in areas- like Loreto- where the humidity
was high for extended periods of time.
there were other inquiries like the water, infrastructure, golf course, services, density and why don't they build less homes on larger parcels to
support the concept of less density but higher quality and consequential higher prices - which will in turn produce the same profit and less impact.
the lack of a long term plan for desalinization when the aquifer is depleted were also part of the inquiries. Worth a serious look for those
interested. I fear this project is similar to the doofy project being proposed on El Magote in Bahia de La Paz. The first storm surge will take the
whole ball game away- and they have sold millions of dollars of promises to investors and not a stick has been built- the last news was in March and
it's been quiet since then.
Just like anywhere in the world - investors and property buyers should keep their brains turned on when they fall in love with a view.
Life is too short to drink bad wine
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Thanks for the link
printed it out and will read tonight.
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Ricardo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
Member Is Offline
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Lencho, I agree, we used redi mix and a pumper for the roof and mixed it on the floor for block work, all OK as far as I can see.
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Just read the Baja Life article and find it most informative. This is a must read for those on this board. Baja Life is to be commended for the job
it did on this report. I think the Loreto Bay Project is doomed to failure---leaving behind a mess on the beach and a trail of broken dreams. As for
adobe as a building material---one only has to look at the mission chain to see that the missions that are still standing are made from stone and
rock. Those made from adobe are non-existant or in very poor repair. Hopefully, the new President of Mexico will put a stop to any further building
in Nopolo as he has expressed a concern for the people of Mexico.
Please note that I have never (NEVER) waivered from my dislike of the Loreto Bay project. I am certain that in time I will be proven right about this
blight on the Baja desert.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
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you know the consistancy or the block?? salt sand gravel out of the arroyo will fall apart
you can see it all over mexico even at the block plant you can crumble them or the walls are falling apart have them tested or play the piper looking
at cement is like looking a dye in a bucket of water noone can tell unless your artateic is on the job or has someone that
is its a crap shoot most ppl in baja will never tell you what really happens unless thier there for the whole period so they know.
then they will brag because they survivedinspections my borro better be there
jerry and judi
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Worldtraveller
Junior Nomad
Posts: 65
Registered: 11-26-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capitolkat
I fear this project is similar to the doofy project being proposed on El Magote in Bahia de La Paz.
I know folks who are familiar with a large development completed some years ago in the Caribbean (Providenciales) by one of the El Mogote developers.
Many of the issues were the similar. Not enough water, electricity, sewage capacity, and workers. Road and trash disposal issues, hurricanes,
sensitive reefs, lobster beds & aquifiers, etc. In the end, it worked out very well for both the developers and the local populace. That was
about 20 or 25 years ago.
A lot of good questions are being raised. My concerns are less given the good past performances of both the Loreto Bay and the El Mogote developers.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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The Baja Life article on Loreto Bay reinforces my thinking on the project over the past few years.
While construction moves on, the infrastructure questions remain answered only in theory. Why have the desalination plants not been started? Will
the wind generated power ever really happen? Will the non-local construction workers who live temporarily in Loreto ever have decent living
conditions? Fonatur and the construction companies who do the actual building of the project remain as scapegoats, and solutions are continually
evaded. New sections of units are started before the previous ones are finished or inhabited.
Perhaps the developers are sincere in their stated goals, perhaps not. When push comes to shove, results matter, not motivation.
I really don't care if a bunch of northerners trying to find inner peace and shelter from the snow want to sit on rooftops in a lotus position feeling
good about their connection to the earth. I do care if the economic and environmental consequences cause hardship for the people who were there
first.
There seem to be some short term benefits for some people, and quick money is seductive. Can the Loreto area continue to attract tourists with windy
cold winters and long seasons of poor fishing? Only time will tell.
If things don't go well, we'll be looking at the ruins for a long time, and the beaches will be even longer in recovering from the scars of abandoned
construction, as in Puerto Escondido.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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I also read the Bajalife article. A couple of observations:
The article says the most important and limited resource is water. I'm not sure I agree. I suspect that the most limited resource, especially in terms
of "sustainability," is people. There are far too few people here to support the LB development. Especially for a development for foreigners who do no
local work. Fonatur estimates 10 Mexican immigrants to the area for each unit built, the "Harvard study" people say that may be understated.
So whatever arguments are made for the sustainability and/or eco friendliness of the development would be overwhelmed by the tens of thousands of new
area residents who will not be driving electric cars to eco-friendly homes with water-saving appliances using eco-soap and grey water toilets.
Another comment. The article mentions the Danzante resort at Ensenada Blanca as a favorable alternative to Loreto Bay type development. Well, the
Danzante Resort is going to be overwhelmed by a high density, 2000 unit Villas Group development. I've heard a rumor that Danzante's owners have
decided to pull out.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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End of development?
I get the idea some think this doomed development is the end of the line for Loretos' exspansion. Let's think about this. I have mentioned before about collateral damage. Understand the word "damage" here reflects
a meaning comprised of hi-density urban-type sprawl and development(s). Notwithstanding the current emphasis on LB, the floodgates are already open
with scores of well-heeled developers biting at the bit.
Don't be naive, tha LB project will continue on while building permits are issued daily to others. As long as water flows to the officinas of
relevent and pertinent others the progress will continue. After all, as some say; "coastal communities are ineveitable". But then, so is the flu.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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rob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 509
Registered: 10-19-2004
Location: Pacific Coast, BCS
Member Is Offline
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Hi Comitan!
Could that be "Every day is a winding road - get a little bit closer . . " Sheryl Crow?
Rob
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Rob
Thanks went to her site read lyrics not the same, as I remember its eather a man or group.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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