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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Fedaral building & federal zone permits
Punta Chivato area is being swarmed my federal empoyees with forms that are very intimidating. The officials are very nice and patient. They have said
that all of Baja Sur is not in compliance with federal laws and it is just now processing this area. They, and the form letters, say that we needed to
apply for federal permits to clear (change) the land and also apply for federal contruction permits. and since we did not we are in violation of
federal laws and subject to fines, and worse The inspectors clamed that if we did not sign their inspection forms they would have to inform the police
that we refused to sign. Signing the forms aknowledges that we are the responsible party. I pointed out that the land was cleared prior to my
purchasing it and that when I buildt I went through an architect, contractor, Bank ( for the bank trust), permits and social security. No one said
anything about the federial permits. this is FYI but sure would like to hear some, serious, feed back. http://forums.bajanomad.com/images/smilies/wow.gif
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
The inspectors clamed that if we did not sign their inspection forms they would have to inform the police that we refused to sign.
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The police have no jurisdiction.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Thanks Dave. I understand that but the threat was amplied like that. I think because I don't speak Spanish that well they tried to use terms that I'd
understand.
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bajamigo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1218
Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
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Mood: hubimos llegado
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Get an abogado. Give yourself a good night's rest.
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JG
Junior Nomad
Posts: 49
Registered: 1-29-2005
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why no interest?
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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The federal government's interest is limited to the area within 20 meters of the mean high tide line. The property owner must obtain a concession
from the government to maintain a structure that intrudes into the zone. See the link. I don't know how this applies in Chivato, but I can say that
the definition of a meter appears to be somewhat, uh, flexible, depending on the circumstances.
http://www.mexicolaw.com/LawInfo30.htm
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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Bajalero
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Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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I heard once that the Federal Zone comprises any area within a 20 ft tidal height. If that info is correct there's a big purse waiting to be collected
by the Gov.
I 'd be willing to bet that this affects just about every gringo that owns beachfront property in Baja
Buyer Beware
Lero
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Bajalero
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Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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Thanks for the link Dan O . That helps clarify the matter somewhat.
The method of enforcement will be the real story
Lero
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Thank you for the above replies. I'm still hoping to hear from some one that has gone through this. There are about 150 or more of us here that this
will effect to some extent. Even those that are on leases with improvements. We thought we understood the regs concerning the Fed. Zone.
These guys are saying all that info was State and Muiciple and they're the Feds. I guess we'll have to take a wait and see attitude.
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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Dave, your response from another thread?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
The law against fireworks cannot be enforced on the beach, it is federal land. |
The Congress recently passed a law that allows state and local agencies to enforce the law in the federal zone. Of course this means that now they
will enforce them to their own advantage, not their constituents. |
Which one is it?
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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aldosalato
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Posts: 183
Registered: 10-20-2002
Location: La Paz
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Also construccion in private properties bordering the ZFMT (Zona Federal Maritimo Terrestre) must have an environmental study previous the starting of
building.
Problem is that 99.9% of existing buildings in Mexico bordering ZFMT do not have such permit.............
Probably the PROFEPA agency is going after this kind of problem more than checking the ZFMT only.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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aldosalato, You have hit on what it is I'm concerned about. And Dano, at some point it would be nice to have th concession too.
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Osprey
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Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Dave, the more authoritative your words the more likely somebody on this forum will make you eat them if and when you are wrong.
Russ, PROFEPA made a wide path down here in East Cape (where there are countless waterside homes and 7 fishing resorts). They used the old laws and
the new laws to take almost $450,000 U.S. out of this bay in fines for not having environmental impact papers and from encroachments onto the Zona
Maritima. This all just happened over the last 10 months -- big money people with lots of clout were made to pony up. The first look-see was 6
agents, a week later 60 more showed up when they saw the opportunities. A dozen or more million dollar homes atop a big shoreside cliff were also
made to pay/conform with the elevation clouding the encroachment. No need to find an expensive notario for this one --- dozens of competent Mexican
legal aid people emerged down here to deal directly with PROFEPA and they were able to get relief, make sense of what is happening along the shore
between honest homeowners and a goverment whose laws are still evolving.
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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It used to be people moved to Mexico so they would'nt have to deal with this chit. Enviromental issues in Mexico is a oxymarooon. Time to move on.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
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Location: Punta Chivato
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Osprey, That is the kind of info I'm looking for. Any idea where to contact these legal aid folks? This is just starting here now. There are only a
few of us (five) here right now so hopefully they'll hold this up for a few months while we get some advise. Thanks!
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bancoduo
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
Punta Chivato area is being swarmed my federal empoyees with forms that are very intimidating. The officials are very nice and patient. They have said
that all of Baja Sur is not in compliance with federal laws and it is just now processing this area. They, and the form letters, say that we needed to
apply for federal permits to clear (change) the land and also apply for federal contruction permits. and since we did not we are in violation of
federal laws and subject to fines, and worse The inspectors clamed that if we did not sign their inspection forms they would have to inform the police
that we refused to sign. Signing the forms aknowledges that we are the responsible party. I pointed out that the land was cleared prior to my
purchasing it and that when I buildt I went through an architect, contractor, Bank ( for the bank trust), permits and social security. No one said
anything about the federial permits. this is FYI but sure would like to hear some, serious, feed back. http://forums.bajanomad.com/images/smilies/wow.gif
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Do you own MEDIVAC
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Russ, The closer to the problem your help is, the better the problem can be handled. I defer to Bruce. Bruce, please let us know who in Mulege has
been handling PROFEPA claims. Russ, I'll u2u to let you know our local people but they may not be up on what's what that far north.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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bancoduo
on my way to alaska...
adios. The Ostrich mentality of the Baja Gringos is gonna bite them in the ass...
I'll be long gone as a "ha, ha, property owner"..
Capt George
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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burro
how pathetic is that?
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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Russ-
I hope the "boat" is big enough for all of us. We buy TUMS in bulk nowadays.
Don't you find yourself asking frequently "how in the heck were we supposed to know all of this ???"
We've spent thousands (dollars) in the past couple of months (on our attorney and an "Engineer") trying to figure out what the requirements are.
Without these guys' help, we wouldn't have a clue what to do.
From what we understand, the real biggie is the "Cambio de Uso de Suelo" permit which classifies or changes land from "Forestal" to residential. You
apply for it in La Paz but I still don't understand if this is a Federal or a State permit. We were told it carries the heaviest penalty/fine $$$$ so
it's what we focused on first. We were also told that there is a local Cambio de Uso permit to do at the Municipio level (ours is Comond?, in Cd
Constituci?n) but we haven't gotten to that point yet.
It sounds like one of the permits the Feds were asking you for was this "Cambio". Are your properties former ejido land that was privatized, or were
they just rural land before people built ?
The only reason any of you would need to get a Federal Zone concession is if your buildings, landscaping, boat launch etc actually encroaches upon the
ZFM of 20 meters from the water.
We don't plan to build on the Fed Zone in front of us, so we applied for a concession in the category of "ornato" or "protecci?n". Our application was
filed in November of last year and SEMARNAT in Mexico City gives themselves until this August to complete it (10 months) so this would not be a quick
fix if any of you have built in the Zone.
An Environmental Impact study is required before building if your property abuts the Federal Zone. Luckily we knew about this and ours study has been
in the works.
I don't understand enough myself to impart much valuable information, but wanted you to know that you're not alone.
U2u if you'd like to know some of the resouces we've used.
sigh...
[Edited on 7-19-2006 by oladulce]
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