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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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Your letter is well worded, so couldn't see any reason for not using cut and paste---Thanks---e-mails have been sent.
However, I can't seem to find an e-mail for the American Consulate in TJ????---just a phone number and snail mail address----I am sure it is somewhere
on the website, but I just can't find it???
Thanks
Diane
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kingpin
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Posts: 43
Registered: 8-17-2006
Location: Chapultipec BN
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I realize people have a need to respond to events like these, but telling officials how to do their jobs is not the way to do it. Have any of you
actually been to Mexico. This letter is the equivalent of holding a sign up to a cop who has pulled you over that says SINDICATURA. This is a MACHO
culture who does not like Americans attitudes to begin with. They think of us as arrogent and stupid. It will only negatively effect those of us who
live here. PLEASE, someone chime in who actually knows something.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kingpin
I realize people have a need to respond to events like these, but telling officials how to do their jobs is not the way to do it. Have any of you
actually been to Mexico. This letter is the equivalent of holding a sign up to a cop who has pulled you over that says SINDICATURA. This is a MACHO
culture who does not like Americans attitudes to begin with. They think of us as arrogent and stupid. It will only negatively effect those of us who
live here. PLEASE, someone chime in who actually knows something. |
Not sure how you think this will affect you, and it sure sounds like YOU think many of us are stupid. Yes, you may live there. However, we have not
only traveled Baja and the mainland of Mexico for years, we lived in Guatemala and Honduras and are NOT experts about any of these countries, except I
do know that many Guatemalans and Hondurans resent Mexico, the colossus to the north.
You have a right to your opinion, but because others disagree does not mean they know nothing. In other areas of Mexico when the tourist industry
was harmed, the authorities have stepped in----first example I can think of is Highway 200---once again, a safer place to travel.
Have a nice day
Diane
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kingpin
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I certainly do not think the people here are STUPID. If I did, I would say so.
For the most part I would say the people here are of above average intelligence.
I do know that there are very competent people in Mexico working on these crimes at this very moment. Not to diminish what has happened with the
recent shootings, but this is NOT a crime wave. There are bad people everywhere. Be careful, abre tus ojos, and carry plenty of pizza insurance.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kingpin
I realize people have a need to respond to events like these, but telling officials how to do their jobs is not the way to do it. Have any of you
actually been to Mexico. This letter is the equivalent of holding a sign up to a cop who has pulled you over that says SINDICATURA. This is a MACHO
culture who does not like Americans attitudes to begin with. They think of us as arrogent and stupid. It will only negatively effect those of us who
live here. PLEASE, someone chime in who actually knows something. |
While you have the right idea about the cultural difference, if people do nothing, then nothing will get done. As I see it, the officials didn't even
know about Tom's attack because he (wisely) headed straight back to the border.
This thread is to inform them...
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BajaGeoff
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Location: San Diego and Campo Lopez
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Mood: Heading To Baja!!!
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Well Kingpin....what would you suggest doing? If tourism in Baja is going to suffer from this then shouldn't the governmental agencies in Mexico know
about it? Regardless of what is actually accomplished by our emails at least we know that an effort was made to bring awareness to the situation. If
they choose to ignore what is going on then they are only hurting themselves in the long run.
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DanO
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Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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Pizza insurance?
OK, I'll bite. What is it?
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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kingpin
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I read it here a while back. I forget who first posted it.
He was suggesting something like. If you drive a piece of sh###t. Criminals tend to look for a better target.
I feel that this philosophy can be applied over a much broader spectrum. From ones attitudes to material things.
Beware the evil eye in Islamic culture.
Out of sight, out of mind.
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kingpin
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This is a response to Geoff.
Be careful, abre tus ojos, and carry plenty of pizza insurance.
I am not trying to bruse any ego's here.
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Hook
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Posts: 9006
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Location: Sonora
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kingpin
I realize people have a need to respond to events like these, but telling officials how to do their jobs is not the way to do it. Have any of you
actually been to Mexico. This letter is the equivalent of holding a sign up to a cop who has pulled you over that says SINDICATURA. This is a MACHO
culture who does not like Americans attitudes to begin with. They think of us as arrogent and stupid. It will only negatively effect those of us who
live here. PLEASE, someone chime in who actually knows something. |
So, you would have us do nothing to preserve your safety in a country you chose to live in while travelers (which you probably once were) are getting
shot at?
Sorry, but if there was some other solution out there that would work, it would have been tried and none of these events would be escalating.
Ultimately, this letter contained little more than a plea for all levels of the Mexican government to work together to remedy this situation. But it
did contain the veiled threat of economic retribution by the tourist if things arent solved quickly.
From the drug cartels to the tourism industry to the "justice" system in Mexico, only one thing really matters.......the dollar. Human life and safety
certainly seems to be somewhere below that.
What better means of getting action could there be?
If you've got a better solution than hand-wringing, Kingpin, out with it. Dont make me trot out the Edmund Burke quote.
But I cant see Mexican officials, especially in elected or appointed offices, getting foreigners emails and deciding to do NOTHING, just to spite us.
Or, doing something aggressive towards foreigners, as you seem to suggest.
Really, what are their choices? They could do SOMETHING constructive about it or they could do NOTHING about it. If these incidents go on without
anyone complaining, they may decide that they can easily ignore the emails and do NOTHING. In fact, some might argue that doing NOTHING involving
tourist safety is their stock in trade.
But if the outcry is pronounced, there is a chance they may decide to do SOMETHING constructive about it.
WE have to do SOMETHING......WE appear to be the targets.
If you are worried that this might cause some kind of gringo witchhunt in your neighborhood, I'd say keep a low profile until this blows over.
Besides, the dollars you are spending down there while living, probably means there are more than a few mexicans that have a vested interest in your
well-being.
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kingpin
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My point is, I am sure they are doing everything they can. They know the possible ramifications of having random violence on their main artery. Does
anyone know they closed all the check points a month or so back? Possibly that would make criminals feel safer carring weapons? You think? PLease,
lets not ruffle any feathers here. This is supposed to be a discussion. Mine is just one opinion.
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Bajaboy
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I also think that we should get the US news to investigate as well. I emailed The San Diego Reader (www.sdreader.com) about the recent reports. I thought it might be appropriate since one of their stories this week relates to the "Gold Coast"
real estate boom. I'm sure contacting the developers would be effective as well. In my opinion, talking to the wallets is far more effective than
talking to the politicians.
Zac
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BajaGeoff
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Posts: 1727
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Location: San Diego and Campo Lopez
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Mood: Heading To Baja!!!
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No pizza insurance (or bruised egos) here kingpin. Although....if you think there is a market for insuring pizza in Mexico I can see about launching a
new line of products!
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kingpin
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Contacting the US media would be the most effective. As it relates to this one case. Anyone remember the two guys from Reno 10 or so years back? This
case is taking on the same characteristics.
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kingpin
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by kingpin
I realize people have a need to respond to events like these, but telling officials how to do their jobs is not the way to do it. Have any of you
actually been to Mexico. This letter is the equivalent of holding a sign up to a cop who has pulled you over that says SINDICATURA. This is a MACHO
culture who does not like Americans attitudes to begin with. They think of us as arrogent and stupid. It will only negatively effect those of us who
live here. PLEASE, someone chime in who actually knows something. |
While you have the right idea about the cultural difference, if people do nothing, then nothing will get done. As I see it, the officials didn't even
know about Tom's attack because he (wisely) headed straight back to the border.
This thread is to inform them... |
You are right mr. K
If 'Tom would have stopped, the police would have detained him as a material witness to a crime. Of course he would hav eventually made it to the
hospital. Now carry that logic out and you will see my point to this thread.
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bajalera
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Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
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We're all upset about this tragedy, but I think it can be assumed that Mexican officials are also disturbed. When some American tourists were killed
in the '70s, Gringos stopped visiting--and began to return in sizable numbers only after several caravans were organized on our side of the border. As
a result, the Baja economy temporarily tanked, big-time.
But Kingpin certainly has a point. I don't think a long, scolding letter is going to do much except tick off Mexican officials who are already
concerned. A short personal note expressing grief at the attack on friends of long standing, expressing the hope that the perpetrators will soon be
brought to justice, might be more effective.
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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AmoPescar
Senior Nomad
Posts: 835
Registered: 7-15-2006
Location: North San Diego County
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Mood: Need a Fish Taco and a Pacifico!
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TIME TO STEP BACK INTO THE FIRE...
Well, first of all, I want to thank the Nomads who took the time to send e-mails to Baja officials. I applaud you for taking the time and having the
courage to do this...I am certain they will NOT be offended by your letters and will certainly not consider you to be ARROGANT or STUPID...Nor do I
believe they think we're telling them how to do their jobs.
Will they take it as a SCOLDING that will TICK them off? I don't think so...
Will they perceive it as a veiled threat? Very possibly...and that's part of the point of the letter. Tourism dollars are a HUGE part of Baja's
economy. If they feel those dollars might stop coming in or that the flow of them will slow...then we have really gotten their attention. They don't
want to see that happen!
The Baja government officials may be disturbed about what's going on, I certainly hope they are VERY disturbed and worried. So, if by writing these
letters, we can cause them to be even more disturbed, then we will have succeeded. Hopefully, we'll have succeeded to the point that these crimes may
be treated with a higher priority. Maybe if that happens, more pressure might be applied on the criminals. And maybe, the violence and crimes will be
stopped or at least slowed down.
You know...Some Americans are very happy with the many social changes which have taken place in our country. Others are upset and dismayed at things
going on in this country which they feel are eroding their values and beliefs.
Well...whether you feel it's positive or negative, it has happened because some one or some group took the time to write, e-mail or call those in
power. They called, wrote, protested and even brought law suits, to declare that they were upset with the way they were being treated, or upset and
angry with how their group, their class, or their race was being treated.
Well...it usually has worked, not always, but most of the time. But, the POINT IS...they DID it! If they had done nothing, then NOTHING would have
been accomplished!!!
So...we can sit on our plush computer chairs and read the Nomad board and other boards and be upset by what we see and hear is going on...OR...we can
try to do something to stop what we feel is wrong.
Personally, I agree with Zac and some others, that we should be doing MORE. We should be writing and contacting ANY and EVERYONE that we feel is
appropriate.
This could include newspapers in our home towns, and not just general news reporters, but TRAVEL section editors, TV stations, travel magazines, other
travel Internet web sites, and even our state and federal elected officials - they can pressure the U.S. State Department to issue Travel Safety
Warnings.
Will any of this work??? Yes, maybe, no, not sure, no way?? Well....none of us know the answer to that. But at least, we will have made the effort
to make the Baja we love a safer place for us, our children, and all our amigos.
AS FOR ME, Well...I'm not...ROTFLMAO...I'm taking this VERY SERIOUSLY!!
TU AMIGO, AMO (Michael) 
[Edited on 8-25-2006 by AmoPescar]
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Barry A.
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As a Govt. Law Enforcement official (BLM) that worked----
------in the California southern desert for 13 years in a very controversial program, I can assure you that we DO pay attention to letters----at least
those that make good points. If they were just angry diatribes, then no we did not take them seriously, but serious letters with positive points were
always taken very seriously, and did produce some good results.
I agree with AMO-------they (the Mex. officials) will NOT be upset at our letters, and they may even do something pro-active about the problem. We
should try, anyway.
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Cypress
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Well said AmoPescar!!!
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JESSE
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The sad truth is that if Governor Elorduy doesn't even listen to the voices of 5 or so million Baja Californians, much less the small american
community. I have been saying for years that if both developers and the goverment, keep selling realestate to foreigners without improving the quality
of life and the economy of the regular population, you will have problems. Whats happening up north and in many areas of Baja, is the contact betwen
wealthy america and poor southern mexico. American dollars atract a lot of very poor people from southern Mexico who are very diferent from the
typical caracter of Baja Californians, add to that a rising drug problem, and you see why many years back i predicted a Tijuanization of Baja in many
towns that traditionally have been very friendly and relaxed.
The sad truth, is that its all our fault, if i was an american and truly wanted to fix this problem, i would push for the goverment to create laws
that benefit the local communities a lot more from the current land grab happening tru out the peninsula.
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