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oxxo
Super Nomad
Posts: 2137
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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Check out the "Mexican Police Stories" thread for the other side of the story.
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drwnorth
Newbie
Posts: 14
Registered: 5-28-2006
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When posting this thread I knew it would stir up a hornet's nest and it has. And also has "got people thinking" which it was intended to do as well
as stimulate responses with useful information for the sake of everyone's safety and hopefully better Third World experiences.
To those of you who have been able to discern the message and respond positively, I thank.
To those who have had your feelings hurt and responded with innuendo, hence taking the thread away from the point and what that is I say - refer back
to 'fishbucks' first post here on the 4th at 8:18 PM- specifically his last sentence.
To those who wish for more information about MX travel or in any foreign country - good or bad, do your homework and ask questions, in advance. It's
pretty amazing how many people are out there - been there, done that - and are most helpful in providing needed info - including Mexican nationals
once there and traveling about - and don't forget about the international travel forums. Then in particular Baja is truly unique in that due to its
high popularity and travel forums like this, an unusually high degree of up to the minute, mostly accurate info is at your fingertips.
---------------------------------------
Bernie,
Your summary of all posts here, and added insights - quite well done!
And agreed, let's move on........
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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Dangers of the toll road?
Here's a funny story. Coming back north yesterday I pull out onto the highway from La Bocana/Puerto Santo Tomas, and join a long string of cars and
trucks crawling up the grade to the top of the hill and the checkpoint. A guy in a new jacked up Ford 150 crew cab with a couple of ATVs, some kids'
toys and camping equipment in the back coming from farther south is right in front of me, and apparently in a real big hurry. At the base of the
first switchback, he pulls out to pass and takes about three vehicles before downhill traffic around the second switchback forces him back into line.
At the top of the hill, the line from the checkpoint is stretched back about a dozen vehicles, and the guy takes a shot at pulling out of line and
passing the cars waiting in line. This apparently catches the eye of the checkpoint guys, so the Ford driver wisely hangs back, but with the back end
of his truck stuck out into the southbound lane, forcing a few southbound vehicles to negotiate around him. He goes through the inspection about the
same time as us, then roars off. We mosey on down the road, stopping at a store for some sodas and snacks. As we pass through Ensenada, we see the
Ford guy again. He's been pulled over by a motorcycle cop, who is writing him a ticket. The next time we see him is on the grade down to La Salina,
where he blows by me and a semi going at least 100 mph, obviously steamed about the ticket, and now in an even bigger hurry (to do what, wait in line
for three hours?). Just after he passes me, I pull out from behind the semi, and as I'm passing it, a big metal collapsing chair flies out of the
Ford guy's truck and into my lane (I'm doing about 70), forcing me to jam on the brakes and swerve back in behind the semi to avoid hitting the chair.
I assume the half dozen or so cars and trucks behind me had to deal with the same problem.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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drwnorth ----
Thanks, for inspiring me to"think", as you put it.I've never been able to do that without an insightful guide, such as yourself.
Please, drw, in the future, would you just pose your question in a manner unlike a Buddhist monk? You know, the one hand clapping kind of crap, and
see if those of us, less gifted than you can fathom the depths of it?
I usually take offense to anybody who assumes the role of teacher to me without my request but, this time I'll let it go.
Your "thanks" to those whom you assume extrapolated meaning from your meaningless question was a desperate plea for support. I doubt that many, if
any here,understood your post. Had they known they were being led to "think", I'm sure most of the confusion would have been avoided.
Please drw, dont take offense to my tirade. This is a place for opinions, yours as well as mine. At least I think it is. [ there I go, thinking on
my own ]
You have a really b-tchen day ..... Dennis
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Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
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Lencho -
I enjoyed Dennis's reply and found it fitting. You could reread it with toung in cheek.
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rnbrocha
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered: 9-5-2006
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 Now common sense is what lacks in driving today. Whether it be US, Mexico,
wherever! I have driven all over Mexico (thanks to great traveling parents) and the beauty of this country always takes away the bad stuff. If it is
your time to go, so be it.... Be strong in your faith and love your family. As for the Mexican Banditos.... let's not stereo-type here, there are
these type of drive by robbery criminals here in the states... Common sense!
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drwnorth
Newbie
Posts: 14
Registered: 5-28-2006
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Wow !!
Some interesting fabricated untruths posted by a few here.
........hmmmm, I suppose this may be a result of not being able to answer the question........????????
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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Although I smell troll here (see below for a sad one), I don't have anything better to do, so here goes:
I don't understand the question, as it appears to be based on an unproven and likely flawed statistical analysis. Please rephrase. In the interim,
here are a few possible interpretations I've been able to come up with:
1. You think bad things are more likely happen to people who do bad things to other people. I'm hardly in a position to argue with this, as it's
just a restatement of the principle of karma.
2. You think bad things are more likely to happen to people who act like a**holes in foreign countries, disobey the law, flaunt authority, etc. No
argument from me here either -- the best way to get noticed is to draw negative attention to yourself.
3. You think bad things are more likely to happen to people who knowingly put themselves into dangerous situations. I can't argue with this either
-- it's the concept that insurance companies operate on.
4. You think that bad things are more likely to happen to people who get into dangerous situations because they haven't taken the time and effort to
educate themselves about the potential dangers beforehand. Again, I can't argue with this. I think we all have a responsibility to arm ourselves
with as much knowledge as possible and to travel with care for ourselves and with consideration for others.
5. You think that people to whom bad things have happened and who've posted about them on this board must fall into one of the four groups above.
See, this is where I, and apparently others, have a little difficulty with your question and its implications. Maybe you'd like to clear this up for
us.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Hey there dw ----
Did DanO get it right, or what?
You're still doing the ,"sound of one hand clapping chit".
What is the question?
Ask the question.
I honestly dont believe you have one.
Later ..... Dennis
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: |
5. You think that people to whom bad things have happened and who've posted about them on this board must fall into one of the four groups above. See,
this is where I, and apparently others, have a little difficulty with your question and its implications. Maybe you'd like to clear this up for us.
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In my opinion, you nailed it. Thanks DanO
Diane
[Edited on 9-6-2006 by jdtrotter]
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oxxo
Super Nomad
Posts: 2137
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
A guy in a new jacked up Ford 150 crew cab with a couple of ATVs, some kids' toys and camping equipment in the back coming from farther south is
right in front of me, and apparently in a real big hurry. As we pass through Ensenada, we see the Ford guy again. He's been pulled over by a
motorcycle cop, who is writing him a ticket. The next time we see him is on the grade down to La Salina, where he blows by me and a semi going at
least 100 mph, obviously steamed about the ticket, and now in an even bigger hurry. Just after he passes me, I pull out from behind the semi, and as
I'm passing it, a big metal collapsing chair flies out of the Ford guy's truck and into my lane |
I wonder if Mr. Jacked Up Ford is a person who would say that something bad happens to him every time he visits Baja. Bad Karma! 
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2637
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
Member Is Offline
Mood: wait and see
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
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Oxxo -- Exactly. That's why I posted the story. If the theory of karma really works, here's what I imagine might have happened after we saw him
last: He (1) got in the crossing lane that turned out to be the slowest, (2) tried to change lanes and banged into another car that wouldn't give
ground but did call the TJ police, (3) paid mordida to TJPD to get out of it (4) got back into line and waited some more, (5) got sent to secondary,
and (6) got nailed with some contraband in the back of his truck that he claimed was planted by the Mexican cops.
Mind you, it's just a theory.
[Edited on 9-7-2006 by DanO]
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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drwnorth
Newbie
Posts: 14
Registered: 5-28-2006
Member Is Offline
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.... DanO knows it all, how lucky can we be?
Hmmmm? Question this in the big time........
Gosh! If I didn't have all these KIA's in Baja, what would I do ????
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by drwnorth
.... DanO knows it all, how lucky can we be?
Hmmmm? Question this in the big time........
Gosh! If I didn't have all these KIA's in Baja, what would I do ???? |
Uh, not quite the clarification I was hoping for. It seems to be in code, except for the snark about me knowing it all, which is, sadly, untrue.
Wish I did, but I still learn things every day, good and bad. Anyway, I'll speculate that KIA is "killed in action," and that drw is using it to
refer to people who've had the temerity to die violently while in Baja, forcing drw to explain to all of us pollyannas that they had it coming. Am I
close?
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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synch
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 9-14-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: wandering...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
Here's a funny story. Coming back north yesterday I pull out onto the highway from La Bocana/Puerto Santo Tomas, and join a long string of cars and
trucks crawling up the grade to the top of the hill and the checkpoint. A guy in a new jacked up Ford 150 crew cab with a couple of ATVs, some kids'
toys and camping equipment in the back coming from farther south is right in front of me, and apparently in a real big hurry. At the base of the
first switchback, he pulls out to pass and takes about three vehicles before downhill traffic around the second switchback forces him back into line.
At the top of the hill, the line from the checkpoint is stretched back about a dozen vehicles, and the guy takes a shot at pulling out of line and
passing the cars waiting in line. This apparently catches the eye of the checkpoint guys, so the Ford driver wisely hangs back, but with the back end
of his truck stuck out into the southbound lane, forcing a few southbound vehicles to negotiate around him. He goes through the inspection about the
same time as us, then roars off. We mosey on down the road, stopping at a store for some sodas and snacks. As we pass through Ensenada, we see the
Ford guy again. He's been pulled over by a motorcycle cop, who is writing him a ticket. The next time we see him is on the grade down to La Salina,
where he blows by me and a semi going at least 100 mph, obviously steamed about the ticket, and now in an even bigger hurry (to do what, wait in line
for three hours?). Just after he passes me, I pull out from behind the semi, and as I'm passing it, a big metal collapsing chair flies out of the
Ford guy's truck and into my lane (I'm doing about 70), forcing me to jam on the brakes and swerve back in behind the semi to avoid hitting the chair.
I assume the half dozen or so cars and trucks behind me had to deal with the same problem. |
Wow!
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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drwnorth,
I don't agree with the statement that the Toll Road has had a bad reputation for 30 years.
I have lived in San Diego all my life (over 50 years) and have traveled south since age 6. If it was known that it was dangerous it was missed by me
and my friends.
Yes,I have been "held up" for a mordida of $20 on a couple of occasions. But I also have been given a warning also. That is not what I would call
dangerous. Especially in terms of other third world countries.
The incidents along the border are very recent events IMHO. I think most on this board would agree with that.
I also have left for trips typically crossing at 4am so as to time the sunrise south of Ensenada with never an incident.
I am questioning now if I will do that in the future, as others on this board are also doing.
Where are you coming from?
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Let me give it a try (without knowing it all). My intention is to be helpful. I don't want to get into trying to set the newby straight. That is being
handled adeptly and eloquently by others.
It has been posted here, in other threads, that there is a new wave of violence in Baja. Most of this is in Tijuana. Regarding the toll highway
between the TJ border and Ensenada, the recent (August) event that started all this discussion was when a Nomad pulling a trailer was shot. He
survived by taking evasive action and drove like hell to the border. The cardinal rule that he broke, was driving at night; the event happened in the
dark early morning hours, I think around 3:30 AM.
Was he responsible because he was there at the wrong time?
Well, the bad guys were the ones who shot him. They were there waiting for an opportunity and voila, along he came. Bet he won't drive that highway
again at night! I think all of us benefited by the incident being reported on BajaNomad.
Then a woman was shot and killed near Catavina. Who knows if this is cartel related? It is quite a distance south of the border. I tend to think it
was meth related. Let me be clear here: I am not inferring any responsibility on the part of the victim or her husband! Then there was the poor man
who was minding his own business on a secluded beach, murdered, jeep and other personal effects stolen....nobody arrested.
Apparently they haven't caught the perps, nor have they caught anybody that has recently murdered.
I don't think it is valid to say, "more violence happens in the U.S", or "it is safer in Baja than in Los Angeles". By not valid, I mean in this
context. This is a board that exists as a source of information about BAJA. So, Baja is the focus here. When something bad happens in
Baja, the rest of us can benefit by that knowledge so that we can maybe avoid the mistakes that put the victim in the wrong place.
True, bad incidents have occurred to gringos in Baja since before Bernie started his adventures there. What is happening lately is that there is a
cartel turf war happening. They are asserting themselves and demonstrating that they can't be stopped. Targeting gringos is a way to make a huge
statement: "ruin the tourist economy until they leave us alone." There is also a lot more meth in Mexico now. It makes people delusional, desperate
and crazy. Nobody is totally safe. The Police don't have the power to stop it. Indeed, the ones who try get murdered.
This kind of Baja-related news almost always appears here first. Much of it never makes the news in the U.S.
A lot of this is speculation; by others and by me. I don't know it all, but dammit, I know more than I did before reading and joining this board. I am
not an adrenalin junkie and neither do I have a deathwish. I will still spend a lot of time in Baja. Figuratively, I will run a zig-zag pattern rather
than in a straight line, armed with new information from my fellow Nomads.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Thanks toneart a very good summary of the situation as it is. I appreciate the clarity. I appreciate DanO for his clarity also. You both think very
well and I appreciate your posts. We are fortunate to have friends like this.
Iflyfishwhennottryingtountiegordianknots
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Toneart...I take your points well and maybe right on target.
"""What is happening lately is that there is a cartel turf war happening. They are asserting themselves and demonstrating that they can't be stopped.
Targeting gringos is a way to make a huge statement: "ruin the tourist economy until they leave us alone.""
I however think there is another more sinister plot unfolding.
At the root is Meth, and possibly survival.
This part of your assessment is not making sense to me:
""Targeting gringos is a way to make a huge statement: "ruin the tourist economy until they leave us alone.""
If you think about it...it is a huge statement, but do you think the military will not respond if they
""ruin the tourist economy until they leave us alone.""
IF we are speculating, I speculate it is Gang bangers from LA/SD either deported or whatever. Just makes more sense to me. A bunch of gang bangers
moving south fits time frame and the fact they could not speak Hispaniola(?) The poor guy in Mulege may not be part of this senerio, because of no
guns, but may have been same bunch not carrying.
Just another point of view...
I hope that DRWnorth has headed NORTH...
[Edited on 12-12-2006 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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