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pacificobob
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alpa
airline pilots 25 years. anybody out there enjoy or think weekends are good. thank labor unions! also...any of you who ever enjoyed a safe airline
ride...have alpa to thank for a good deal of the safty you were exposed to. without alpa, they would all be aero california!
[Edited on 10-16-2006 by pacificobob]
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Barry A.
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Like most organizations, much good came from them-----
-------but on balance, more harm than good has resulted from Union bosses run amuck-----
It has even happened with AARP (American Ass. Of Retired People)-----which has now gone way too far and is now harming senior interests with their
increasingly radical agenda.
-----like the ALCU (Am. Civil Liberties Union) which started out as a remarkable organization, and is now totally out of control and hurting our
country with their radical agenda.
-----like the Sierra Club------and on and on and on-----
I have belonged to all of them "back when"----but now I no longer am a member of any of them.
Every organization has a time and a place where they do good, and also a point where they become counter productive, or even destructive, and need to
just fade away.
"Power" corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The stronger Unions (etc.) get, the more corrupt they seem to get.
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Bruce R Leech
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
-------but on balance, more harm than good has resulted from Union bosses run amuck-----
It has even happened with AARP (American burro. Of Retired People)-----which has now gone way too far and is now harming senior interests with their
increasingly radical agenda.
-----like the ALCU (Am. Civil Liberties Union) which started out as a remarkable organization, and is now totally out of control and hurting our
country with their radical agenda.
-----like the Sierra Club------and on and on and on-----
I have belonged to all of them "back when"----but now I no longer am a member of any of them.
Every organization has a time and a place where they do good, and also a point where they become counter productive, or even destructive, and need to
just fade away.
"Power" corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The stronger Unions (etc.) get, the more corrupt they seem to get. |
it is the kill the golden goose syndrome.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Al G
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I reported this thread and ask for it to be deleted. I don't feel it is appropriate for this forum.
It has not been removed so I assume Doug disagrees.
I would delete my own, but feel there should be representation.
Soulpatch...I did not direct to you or your union personal feelings I have. I know you took it personal, as all union members do. I have a personal
history with different unions and this experience is from both sides of the fence, as a member/officer and employer. I can not prove it as I will not
name names or detail the corruption within, and stealing from their members. I know there are good unions and most People are Good. I think Jim's
union may be a great union and has a management team that works with Business. Remember you can only demand so much. I think most unions realize they
are going down hill fast and are becoming more sensitive to competition pressures. Unions who work within reality will survive and are needed to
ensure workers health and working conditions. A union that supports pay, for work or not, or promotes incompetency will be history.
I do wish this stupid thread had never happened, because being friends is far more important then discussing things none of us can do anything about
anyway.
Albert
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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capt. mike
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i have hired non union subs on all my resid projects for 26 years and all paid overtime at time and a half past 40 hours, all subs paid benefits and
vaca pay. only had union for heavy street work due to op engineers all union for the most part. used union on heavy comm'l like steel workers too.
AZ is right to work state - workers choice, works for me.
i can say from classical economic theory that unions are a market interferance mechanism tho that drive costs up and limit resources.
in the old days companies abused workers bringing about unions, a good thing but it got out of hand.
let the free market decide. i am in a peeing match fight right now with da wife who supports a min wage and raising it. i say its not supposed to ne a
"living" wage - and that forcing min wage actually drives some out of biz and then kills jobs but she doesn't get it - just like a lot of libs and
bleeding hearts. the hispanic workers here which i respect all make more than the min wage anyway in construction.
well, back to work, break over!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Bruce R Leech
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
i have hired non union subs on all my resid projects for 26 years and all paid overtime at time and a half past 40 hours, all subs paid benefits and
vaca pay. only had union for heavy street work due to op engineers all union for the most part. used union on heavy comm'l like steel workers too.
AZ is right to work state - workers choice, works for me.
i can say from classical economic theory that unions are a market interferance mechanism tho that drive costs up and limit resources.
in the old days companies abused workers bringing about unions, a good thing but it got out of hand.
let the free market decide. i am in a peeing match fight right now with da wife who supports a min wage and raising it. i say its not supposed to ne a
"living" wage - and that forcing min wage actually drives some out of biz and then kills jobs but she doesn't get it - just like a lot of libs and
bleeding hearts. the hispanic workers here which i respect all make more than the min wage anyway in construction.
well, back to work, break over!! |
good luck with the better half Mike
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Cypress
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The only thing worse than unions is bad management. Bad management is the reason
for unions. Have paid union dues in the past. Unions are going the way of the dinosaur. 
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Halboo
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I worked in Hollywood for years building sets and working shoots and the whole time it was non union work.
On several jobs we worked there were some union guys and it always amazed me at how little work they could get done in a day.
Q: How can you tell when a teamster dies?
A: He drops his doughnut and coffee .
Q: How can you tell the teamsters kid at the playground?
A: He's the watching the other kids play.
I do however believe in the power of the union and they have done good in many cases; power corrupts.
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Packoderm
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I sometimes wonder how much of the union excesses are due to infiltration from entities unfriendly to unionization. Maybe reform in the electing of
union leaders and placing checks and balances of their leadership by members is more urgent than the dismantling of unions altogether.
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capt. mike
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............shiiiiiiiteeeeee
mi esposa is now going on frickin strike!!!!!can you believe that crap!!
i hate election time, divorce may be the right force!
frickin union hotel rest and bar workers..........her deal for years, about 30 of 'em!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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jimgrms
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I agree with al g this forum is about baja , where we work or if we snowboard has no buisness we all have opinions about unions and they are like
a--holes they should be kept to onesself lest we offend others jim
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Skeet/Loreto
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SoulPatch: Did you plant your Palm Trees on a Handful of Coarse Salt??
Skeet
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Skeet/Loreto
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Here in the Great State of Texas- I have a 3 Ft. Blue Palm-Grown from Seeds taken from the Giant Blue Palm on the Left side of the Hwy,about 2 Miles
before you get to Santa Innes{Catavina}.
Good Luck Patch!
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Bruce R Leech
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Here in the Great State of Texas- I have a 3 Ft. Blue Palm-Grown from Seeds taken from the Giant Blue Palm on the Left side of the Hwy,about 2 Miles
before you get to Santa Innes{Catavina}.
Good Luck Patch! |
Skeet please delete this post. think My Friend
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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soulpatch
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Since this has gone so far off topic....
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
On the whole exchange rate thing, you guys need to join a credit union.
My ATM works just fine down there and I get the exchange rate at the days close. Sure, I gotta pay the Bank fee (what is it about 1.50?) but I aint
being nickel and dimed to death by one of the big boys (Citibandit, B of A, Wellls Fargo, Chase, etc.).
Credit union......working WITH your money instead of FOR it!.
Union, join a union??!!! Oh, I already did.
And further off topic:
Skeet, I have not planted my palms yet. I am acclimating them to sunlight after being greenhouse raised. The palm guy says 1 part Kellogg soil
amendment, 1 part #12 sand and 2 parts native soil. |
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Bruce R Leech
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Author: Subject: union
bancoduo
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 05:12 PM
union
How many union members out there?
soulpatch
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 06:19 PM
Right here brother.
CPF and IAFF.
My wife is CEA and NEA.
The older I get it seems the less I know.
Bruce R Leech
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 07:02 PM
I have belonged to 2 unions in my life. and I am not proud of it both times the Union caused the company to go out of business and cost me a good job.
now they are driving the auto industry out of the USA. and the teachers unions are destroying education.what next
Bruce R Leech
Mulege Baja
Visit our webpage in Mulege.....
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soulpatch
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 07:04 PM
My experience has been that Union members spend money in thier communities.
I am guessing Bruce had a non-union education based soley on his ability to write.
The auto industry is hurting because of a lack of innovation in design. Cars are still selling/
The older I get it seems the less I know.
Bruce R Leech
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
My experience has been that Union members spend money in thier communities.
I am guessing Bruce had a non-union education based soley on his ability to write.
The auto industry is hurting because of a lack of innovation in design. Cars are still selling/
all my teachers were Union through the 12 grade it doesn't mater if you can read or write they just pass you on so you are not there problem any more.
Bruce R Leech
Mulege Baja
Visit our webpage in Mulege.....
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Packoderm
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 07:35 PM
I've never been a union member in my life. I've worked countless thousands hours of overtime, and I've never been paid anthing but straight time. I've
never had a paid vacation. Heck, I've never really been allowed to take time to go on vacation. I could go only when I was between jobs. Some kind of
union would have worked for me.
Bruce R Leech
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 07:48 PM
Wow Packoderm where did you work? sounds like you have a good case for the labor board.
Bruce R Leech
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Visit our webpage in Mulege.....
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soulpatch
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 07:54 PM
All I can say is that I get a very fair wage and benefit package based on the tax base in the area I live in. I then spend those monies in my
community, first w/local businesses if I can and then w/larger corporations that pay wages to people in my community.
And Bruce, not all teachers just pass students on. Usually blanket generalizations are inherently incorrect.
The older I get it seems the less I know.
Al G
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
I've never been a union member in my life. I've worked countless thousands hours of overtime, and I've never been paid anthing but straight time. I've
never had a paid vacation. Heck, I've never really been allowed to take time to go on vacation. I could go only when I was between jobs. Some kind of
union would have worked for me.
WoW... I guess I am reading between the lines, but haven't heard of to many people out of touch with reality this bad. Sound like ammunition for the
Unions. I can heard them now...."Oh dear lord you need the union to protect you"
The truth is Federal Law has been protecting you for many,many years. Dates and time is all you need to recover all the back wages. No Union needed.
Albert G
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.
Packoderm
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 08:01 PM
Hell Bruce, virtually every person who works non-union construction is expected to put in 10 hours a day and Saturdays and sometimes part of Sunday.
Nobody gets extra pay for overtime. One employer listed our hours as piece work when we were hourly. They seemed to want to make construction akin to
agricultural work - which they have succeeded in many ways. This was especially true when there was no bubble.
Packoderm
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 08:03 PM
"The truth is Federal Law has been protecting you for many,many years. Dates and time is all you need to recover all the back wages. No Union needed."
You'd be fired or life will be hell. Also, you'd have to move to a different town if you want to work again.
This is getting Off Topic. Well, that is unless you want to compare the U.S.'s future with that of Baja Mexico's present.
[Edited on 07/17/2004 by Packoderm]
Al G
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
All I can say is that I get a very fair wage and benefit package based on the tax base in the area I live in. I then spend those monies in my
community, first w/local businesses if I can and then w/larger corporations that pay wages to people in my community.
And Bruce, not all teachers just pass students on. Usually blanket generalizations are inherently incorrect.
Highly commendable..of course you have to support local, unions insist, because the rest of the world (China for one) is kicking your union butt. Of
coarse not everyone does the same good, or bad thing. Most of your brethren buy cheap whatever China crap same as they did in the sixties with Japan.
There are good and bad teachers, just as any other profession. The problem is as you know the union make sure the cannot be fired for being
incompetent.
The very worst thing the unions do, and will be their major downfall, is forcing business to pay people weather they work or not. Tell me how long you
company would last in a down turn..the ones that do are so far in debt the owners make nothing for years. The unions don't care it was your fault
anyway.
My last post on the subject, because I know it does no good.
Funny thing is you know I am speaking the truth with experience, but you will never admit it. The unions are coming down and I don't mean someday.
Albert G
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.
Bruce R Leech
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 08:59 PM
all I know is I have only had bad experiences with them and lots of good jobs without them. I always mad more a had better benefits than the union
guys . but I liked to work. I think union jobs are good for lazy non skilled workers
Bruce R Leech
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soulpatch
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 09:23 PM
Well, when your righting comes off as if you were in the classes for the learning disabled I understand Bruce.
And Al G, you know nothing about me and I don't post what I don't firmly believe in.
The older I get it seems the less I know.
soulpatch
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 09:25 PM
I will state this, as well. This is too finite of a forum for this to be discussed logically and w/o subjective feeling.
The older I get it seems the less I know.
elgatoloco
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 10:51 PM
soulpatch
Did you ever get some palm trees?
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and the government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain
Support our troops!!
http://www.usacares.us/
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Bruce R Leech
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 07:05 AM
soulpatch I am sorry that you took my point of view so personally . that was not my intent. I only wanted to post that I have been a union member in
the past and did not have a good experience.
you are a union member and it has worked well for you as it has for many. I am sure you will get as many deferent responses as there are people. but
when you make a post about something as controversial as Unions you are asking for responses and opinions. after all these is the INTERNET and the
Baja Nomad Forum. what I don't like is when someone makes a post and then personally attacks anyone that posts a point of view that is deferent than
yours. I am sory that you are the kind of person that sets this kind of trap. maybe I cant write with your expertise but I do have manners enough that
I will never personally attack another Nomad about personal deficiencies
[Edited on 10-16-2006 by Bruce R Leech]
Bruce R Leech
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jimgrms
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 08:29 AM
Iserved 25 years in the Navy and then joined the IBEW lu 477, in san bernardino ca we had a great comp package and at one time even took a pay cut in
the 80's ,to help our contracters compete , we did not get paid vacations , and if a wireman scred up something on the job he was required to fix on
his time (no pay), . I buy american and locally whenever i can . which is harder every day , automakers and other sources outsource to make more
profit not to give the buyer a better deal ex. a car that cost 10,000 in 1989 now cost 36 40,000,and labor material or cost of doing buisness has not
gone up that fast jmho jim g
soulpatch
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 08:33 AM
El Gato,
I got the palms and Jungle music was great... of course I spent too much. and bought only small ones (9) but I will have the pleasure of watching them
grow.
Bruce, I wasn't the only one here slinging some mud. I remember a few of your posts that an objective person might take personally. I did not start
this post and, like a fool, allowed myself to be drawn into it. Stupid me, again.
The older I get it seems the less I know.
Bruce R Leech
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
El Gato,
I got the palms and Jungle music was great... of course I spent too much. and bought only small ones (9) but I will have the pleasure of watching them
grow.
Bruce, I wasn't the only one here slinging some mud. I remember a few of your posts that an objective person might take personally. I did not start
this post and, like a fool, allowed myself to be drawn into it. Stupid me, again.
no problem .
Bruce R Leech
Mulege Baja
Visit our webpage in Mulege.....
http://www.mulegebaja.com
pacificobob
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 09:22 AM
alpa
airline pilots 25 years. anybody out there enjoy or think weekends are good. thank labor unions! also...any of you who ever enjoyed a safe airline
ride...have alpa to thank for a good deal of the safty you were exposed to. without alpa, they would all be aero california!
[Edited on 10-16-2006 by pacificobob]
Barry A.
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 09:55 AM
Like most organizations, much good came from them-----
-------but on balance, more harm than good has resulted from Union bosses run amuck-----
It has even happened with AARP (American burro. Of Retired People)-----which has now gone way too far and is now harming senior interests with their
increasingly radical agenda.
-----like the ALCU (Am. Civil Liberties Union) which started out as a remarkable organization, and is now totally out of control and hurting our
country with their radical agenda.
-----like the Sierra Club------and on and on and on-----
I have belonged to all of them "back when"----but now I no longer am a member of any of them.
Every organization has a time and a place where they do good, and also a point where they become counter productive, or even destructive, and need to
just fade away.
"Power" corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The stronger Unions (etc.) get, the more corrupt they seem to get.
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
-------but on balance, more harm than good has resulted from Union bosses run amuck-----
It has even happened with AARP (American burro. Of Retired People)-----which has now gone way too far and is now harming senior interests with their
increasingly radical agenda.
-----like the ALCU (Am. Civil Liberties Union) which started out as a remarkable organization, and is now totally out of control and hurting our
country with their radical agenda.
-----like the Sierra Club------and on and on and on-----
I have belonged to all of them "back when"----but now I no longer am a member of any of them.
Every organization has a time and a place where they do good, and also a point where they become counter productive, or even destructive, and need to
just fade away.
"Power" corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The stronger Unions (etc.) get, the more corrupt they seem to get.
it is the kill the golden goose syndrome.
Bruce R Leech
Mulege Baja
Visit our webpage in Mulege.....
http://www.mulegebaja.com
Al G
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 10:57 AM
I reported this thread and ask for it to be deleted. I don't feel it is appropriate for this forum.
It has not been removed so I assume Doug disagrees.
I would delete my own, but feel there should be representation.
Soulpatch...I did not direct to you or your union personal feelings I have. I know you took it personal, as all union members do. I have a personal
history with different unions and this experience is from both sides of the fence, as a member/officer and employer. I can not prove it as I will not
name names or detail the corruption within, and stealing from their members. I know there are good unions and most People are Good. I think Jim's
union may be a great union and has a management team that works with Business. Remember you can only demand so much. I think most unions realize they
are going down hill fast and are becoming more sensitive to competition pressures. Unions who work within reality will survive and are needed to
ensure workers health and working conditions. A union that supports pay, for work or not, or promotes incompetency will be history.
I do wish this stupid thread had never happened, because being friends is far more important then discussing things none of us can do anything about
anyway.
Albert
Albert G
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.
capt. mike
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 11:06 AM
i have hired non union subs on all my resid projects for 26 years and all paid overtime at time and a half past 40 hours, all subs paid benefits and
vaca pay. only had union for heavy street work due to op engineers all union for the most part. used union on heavy comm'l like steel workers too.
AZ is right to work state - workers choice, works for me.
i can say from classical economic theory that unions are a market interferance mechanism tho that drive costs up and limit resources.
in the old days companies abused workers bringing about unions, a good thing but it got out of hand.
let the free market decide. i am in a peeing match fight right now with da wife who supports a min wage and raising it. i say its not supposed to ne a
"living" wage - and that forcing min wage actually drives some out of biz and then kills jobs but she doesn't get it - just like a lot of libs and
bleeding hearts. the hispanic workers here which i respect all make more than the min wage anyway in construction.
well, back to work, break over!!
http://www.flybaja.com
http://www.flyingsamaritans.com
Time to spare?? Then go by air!!
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
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Posts: 4926
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Mulege
Member Is Online
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
i have hired non union subs on all my resid projects for 26 years and all paid overtime at time and a half past 40 hours, all subs paid benefits and
vaca pay. only had union for heavy street work due to op engineers all union for the most part. used union on heavy comm'l like steel workers too.
AZ is right to work state - workers choice, works for me.
i can say from classical economic theory that unions are a market interferance mechanism tho that drive costs up and limit resources.
in the old days companies abused workers bringing about unions, a good thing but it got out of hand.
let the free market decide. i am in a peeing match fight right now with da wife who supports a min wage and raising it. i say its not supposed to ne a
"living" wage - and that forcing min wage actually drives some out of biz and then kills jobs but she doesn't get it - just like a lot of libs and
bleeding hearts. the hispanic workers here which i respect all make more than the min wage anyway in construction.
well, back to work, break over!!
good luck with the better half Mike
Bruce R Leech
Mulege Baja
Visit our webpage in Mulege.....
http://www.mulegebaja.com
Cypress
Nomad
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Posts: 440
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: North Idaho
Member Is Offline
posted on 10-16-2006 at 11:16 AM
The only thing worse than unions is bad management. Bad management is the reason for unions. Have paid union dues in the past. Unions are going the
way of the dinosaur.
Halboo
Newbie
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Registered: 2-19-2006
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 12:45 PM
I worked in Hollywood for years building sets and working shoots and the whole time it was non union work.
On several jobs we worked there were some union guys and it always amazed me at how little work they could get done in a day.
Q: How can you tell when a teamster dies?
A: He drops his doughnut and coffee .
Q: How can you tell the teamsters kid at the playground?
A: He's the watching the other kids play.
I do however believe in the power of the union and they have done good in many cases; power corrupts.
Packoderm
Senior Nomad
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Posts: 657
Registered: 11-7-2002
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 01:11 PM
I sometimes wonder how much of the union excesses are due to infiltration from entities unfriendly to unionization. Maybe reform in the electing of
union leaders and placing checks and balances of their leadership by members is more urgent than the dismantling of unions altogether.
capt. mike
Ultra Nomad
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Mood: baja time!
posted on 10-16-2006 at 04:33 PM
............shiiiiiiiteeeeee
mi esposa is now going on frickin strike!!!!!can you believe that crap!!
i hate election time, divorce may be the right force!
frickin union hotel rest and bar workers..........her deal for years, about 30 of 'em!!
http://www.flybaja.com
http://www.flyingsamaritans.com
Time to spare?? Then go by air!!
jimgrms
Nomad
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Registered: 9-30-2005
Location: denver co
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Mood: its always good
posted on 10-16-2006 at 04:34 PM
I agree with al g this forum is about baja , where we work or if we snowboard has no buisness we all have opinions about unions and they are like
a--holes they should be kept to onesself lest we offend others jim
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
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Posts: 1585
Registered: 9-2-2003
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 04:37 PM
SoulPatch: Did you plant your Palm Trees on a Handful of Coarse Salt??
Skeet
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
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posted on 10-16-2006 at 04:39 PM
Here in the Great State of Texas- I have a 3 Ft. Blue Palm-Grown from Seeds taken from the Giant Blue Palm on the Left side of the Hwy,about 2 Miles
before you get to Santa Innes{Catavina}.
Good Luck Patch!
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
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Posts: 4926
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Mulege
Member Is Online
Mood: good
posted on 10-16-2006 at 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Here in the Great State of Texas- I have a 3 Ft. Blue Palm-Grown from Seeds taken from the Giant Blue Palm on the Left side of the Hwy,about 2 Miles
before you get to Santa Innes{Catavina}.
Good Luck Patch!
Skeet please delete this post. think My Friend
Bruce R Leech
Mulege Baja
Visit our webpage in Mulege.....
http://www.mulegebaja.com
soulpatch I agree 100 % on this one
I have known some really good Credit unions. and I think most of them are a good deal. Banks are a total rip off anymore. and this is a good example
of a union that works although I really think they are more of a coop
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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