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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13034
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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poaching protest in Abreojos
Last week some lobster and abalone poachers from San Carlos were caught in this area and held in jail in Abreojos but subsequently released. In
response to this enormous problem there was a large protest where thousands of fishermen from the area turned out to show their dissaproval of the way
authorities deal with this growing problem. To make a statement, they burned the 2 large pangas complete with new 200 hsp engines. The issue is very
hot right now and vigilancia (patrols) have been stepped up...so...visitors please be aware of the laws and don't sneak any lobsters or abalone or you
will be severely punished and may lose your vehicle.
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bigzaggin
Nomad
Posts: 441
Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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Curious...
These protestors, what kind of punishments were they pushing for? I know poaching is a serious issue in those parts but most civilized nations opt to
fine - rather than jail - someone for stealing a fish. Also, did it seem that the wanton destruction of two boats got their point accross? Just
curious as I'm considering torching a few cop cars today.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bigzaggin
These protestors, what kind of punishments were they pushing for? I know poaching is a serious issue in those parts but most civilized nations opt to
fine - rather than jail - someone for stealing a fish. Also, did it seem that the wanton destruction of two boats got their point accross? Just
curious as I'm considering torching a few cop cars today. |
Yeah, they fine rather than jail poachers in "civilized nations" because their jails are so full of murderers, muggers, rapists, child molesters and
other civilized types that there's no more room for the poachers.
These were commercial poachers, out for a profit. Fines are only a cost of doing business, to be deducted from the profitable trips where they don't
caught. And giving them back their boat and gear? Sure, and we can give robbers back their guns.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Cheers Don.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
And giving them back their boat and gear? Sure, and we can give robbers back their guns. |
Unfortunately, that may be more common sense than Mexican law enforcement can handle !
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bigzaggin
Nomad
Posts: 441
Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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Well, a gun in the hands of someone else is still a lethal weapon...a boat however can do someone a lot of good. Especially in Baja. But I see your
point.
I am a little miffed by the recent, militant, "don't poach in Baja" movement on this board which seems to assume posters here are hellbent on
poaching (I mean, I didn't notice a "PLEASE DON'T SHOOT DOGS" thread). But maybe we are? Maybe I missed the "Best Places to Poach in Baja" thread?
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Bajamatic
Senior Nomad
Posts: 571
Registered: 8-31-2006
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poachers is just a mean way to label the right wing conservatives who oppose lobster fishing regulations and favor a free market.
[Edited on 11-6-2006 by Bajamatic]
yuletide
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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The commercial Poachers were taking food off the the table of the rightful fisherman, you can be sure it won't happen again.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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The commercial poachers are the ones who no longer want to work for THE MAN They want to keep the profits they work so hard for. The COOP. is nothing
more than a "feudal organization". 
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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I had always heard pretty positive stuff about the coop in Abreojos--most were happy with it and the folks there got a pretty good living from it. I
haven't been there for a few years though.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bancoduo
The commercial poachers are the ones who no longer want to work for THE MAN They want to keep the profits they work so hard for. The COOP. is nothing
more than a "feudal organization". |
Maintaining a commercial fishery for pacific lobster and abalone is very difficult. California's commercial fisheries for them failed. It will take
discipline, with strict enforcement of regulations based on a good understanding of population dynamics. And perhaps some good luck as well.
Otherwise, everyone loses.
There's nothing romantic or heroic about outsiders coming in to steal from a managed fishery.
I suspect you were trolling, bd, but with you one never knows.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Baja's fishery's are dieing and I think this is just the beginning of Coop feuds. Gringo poachers will be on the "reasons" to hate gringos list before
long and deserve to get their things burned and jailed too.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Bajamatic
Senior Nomad
Posts: 571
Registered: 8-31-2006
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are these poachers gringos?
[Edited on 11-6-2006 by Bajamatic]
yuletide
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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If they were gringos they would still be in jail.
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bigzaggin
Nomad
Posts: 441
Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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GOOD ONE! 
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Bajamatic
Senior Nomad
Posts: 571
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Shari - I am just curious, in your opinion, who does the poaching, Gringo's or local mexicans?
yuletide
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bigzaggin
Nomad
Posts: 441
Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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Duh...
I think it's pretty obvious that gringos are the ones doing all the poaching, otherwise why would Shari waste her breath warning US against it?
Unless this site is populated with tons of poach-happy Mexican fisherman only she knows about.
Regardless, one recent study indicates that 73.6% of all dumb, mean and thoughtless acts perpetrated in Baja are the work of evil greedy rich white
people from The United States. Get it through your brain Bajamatic: What happens down there is your (our) fault.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Enforcing laws protecting fish and their ecosystem are the only way that these fisheries will survive. It ain't no joke that Abalone fishing on the
north coast of California nearly wiped out the species. It is only with serious effort at protection that this species has survived. It ain't no joke
that salmon fishing off the Oregon Coast was banned this summer because of devistating runs on the Klamath River. We are living in a time when the
results of unbridled exploitation of these resources is going to hit our dinner table.
I think Shari was warning us not to purchase or carry illegal shellfish. I for one appreciate the heads up about increased police oversight of this. I
would not want to be caught unknowingly with an illegal lobster. I hope they are successful in their efforts. Theirs will be a long and hard faught
battle. I appreciate this sort of information the same way that I appreciate road and enhanced police patrols, road blocks etc.
I have fished Barra and Melaque for many years and have run into nets stretching for miles, killing everything in their path. The locals seemed to
feel powerless or the attitude of "live and let live" prevailed. Local Gringo fishermen banded together to put pressure on local government to
intervene to stop this practice. I don't know the outcome of this as I have not been back for a number of years.
I just read this week of the predictions that ocean sea food will be extinct by 2048. I saw little effort to stop the illegal fishing off of Barre
and I hope that they are more successful in Abreojos.
Human beings do not have a good track record of protecting precious resources. The remoteness of Baja has till now provided some protection for the
species that dwell there. I doubt this will last much longer.
I think it is human nature to exploit resources till they are gone. I doubt that race or ethnicity is the issue here. Some societies are better able
to actually enforce their laws than other societies. The Bald Eagle through conservation efforts has made a comeback. Eat your lobsters while you may,
the day may well come when they are a thing of the past.
Ilfyfish
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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In their book "The Baja Catch" Neil Kelly and Gene Kira have this to say about this area that they call the Pacific Transition Zone:
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Note that the people of this and most other areas of the Pacific Transition Zone are super sensitive to poaching of abalone, lobster, sea urchins or
any other valuable sea life. From Punta Abrjos to Estero de Coyote, they don't want you to dive at all. |
Fact: It is illegal for non-Mexicans to take marine life other than finfish.
Fact: It is common for non-Mexicans to take certain prohibited animals, such as squid and clams, in many places in Baja. And local people, including
enforcement, may not object.
I see no problem with a poster that lives in a certain area informing us that in her area, stick to the letter of the law or you will be sorry.
However, maybe all these warnings are bogus, and Abrejos folk don't mind gringos taking a few abalones and lobsters. Just to make sure I think
Bigzaggin should head there and test the waters.
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bigzaggin
Nomad
Posts: 441
Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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THAT'S A SOLID IDEA.
I'll be heading that way in a few days. Look for the guy cruising through town with a bag full of bugs in one hand, a stick of butter in the other.
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