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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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May I call you Longlegs?,
I like what you have to say about the importance of understanding differences. I am struck by how the cultural differences discussed so far mirror the
differences between men and women.
We do seem to be having a productive dialogue about this topic. Maybe the important thing is to acknowledge that as you say “The definition of
“different” certainly doesn’t infer bad, odd, weird, inferior or any other negative connotation; it simply means not the same”. Defining conflict or
clashes in terms of differences allow for at least a neutral stance that is at least not divisive or derisive.
I have found myself hitting a wall, so to speak, in Mexico dealing with these differences. I inevitably become frustrated that something that I wanted
or expected to happen simply did not happen and the cumulative affect of that is that I have a blow out. I then seem to somehow let go and then things
are better. Buffett style, I take another breath and let it go. I am coming to believe that the letting go is one of our most important challenges in
life. Buddhists say that the holding on is what causes the pain and keeps us out of the NOW.
Iflyfish when not pondering these things, though I sometimes even ponder them while flyfishing
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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I think fly fishing is a good outlet. especially if you are alone?
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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DanO
Super Nomad
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Location: Not far from the Pacific
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The problem with fly fishing is that it's really hard to hit the little ******** in the air with a hook. Even if you can, they are damn hard to
filet, and it takes several hundred to make a decent meal.
Or are you supposed to use the flies to catch fish? Ohhhhhh . . . .
[Edited on 11-30-2006 by Hose A]
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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jdt,
I am glad you are engaging your students in this discussion, I can hardly wait to hear the outcome.
What do you thing of jdtrotters post below?
"One student with a Mexican mother and a German- American father used to tell me about family gatherings and how she was torn between the two
cultures. When she was with dad's family, the children all behaved quietly and proper, as did the adults---usually a rather quiet affair. Then with
her mother's family, it was louder, wild, and a lot more fun for children and adults, but for her, sometimes embarassing when her German-American side
kicked in."
I wonder if my friend Dewey, who I mentioned in an earlier post, was fighting with a part of him that was Native Mexican Indian and wanted to disown
that part so insisted that he was Spanish like the German/Mexican kid mentioned above?
I am both German and Icelandic by heritage. As a kid I felt proud of my German heritage and felt embarrased about my Icelandic side. My Icelandic
relative seemed very backward to me. For example they resisted rural electrification because they feared that something would jump out of the wire if
it was put in their house. They were convinced to put indoor power in by the Rural Electrification people. They brought with them the biggest auger
that had ever been seen in those parts and were promised the deepest pit toilet they had ever seen if they electrified. That did it, they got juice.
At the other end of the spectrum was my German side of the family that started the local electric company.
I think it is really hard, very, very hard to see the bone in our own nose. If I was in some areas of Borneo I would have a bone in my nose and think
all those other men without them would be weird. I think our own cuture is hardest to see. I think that sometimes someone from outside can more
clearly see and describe us. What do you think?
Thanks for posting on this topic.
Iflyfish when not eating tacos
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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DanO,
"A word to the wise is infuriating." and might I add at times appreciated.
Icatchfliesandfishwiththem
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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Bruce,
You are truly a bad man!
Iflyfish in public
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Bruce,
You are truly a bad man!
Iflyfish in public |
why  
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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Bruce,
"I think fly fishing is a good outlet. especially if you are alone?"
Is it only me that read it that way?
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
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Lencho wrote:
"With due respect, language is a great part of culture and to "only to speak it [Spanish] in the most rudimentary form" makes it hard to see the world
through others' eyes. If you have the opportunity, I'd highly recommend delving deeper..."
--Larry
Your point is very well taken. So much of culture is encased in language and use of it. I have tried when ever possible to keep my rudimantary Spanish
alive in the Pacific Northwest. I doubt there is enough time left this time around to become much more proficient than I am. I look forward to
immersing myself in the language again in a couple of weeks when I return to Mexico. I love hearing Spanish. In Puebla the Spanish sounds like they
are singing. Must be like the southern "twang" one hears in the southern UsofA.
I have been fortunate enough in my career to have had enough Spanish to be able to help some Spanish speakers in various situations here i.e.
assisting with bank transactions, directions and even some situations in schools where I consulted. I am glad that I have had enough to develop
rapport and to facilitate some difficult situations. However I have always been conscious of and somewhat embarrased about my lack of mastery of the
language. I am pleased to have been able to at least in some minimal way repay the kindness shown me in Mexico.
I have never taken a formal Spanish language class and have learned instead through interacting and travel. I have been fortunate enough to have had
lots of help from people more fluent than myself. For this I am grateful. After a couple of weeks in Mexico I find myself starting to "think" in
Spanish. Most Mexicans say I speak well, though I believe they are being kind and I only string words together in contexts that I am familiar with. My
grammer and spelling is nill. I get something out of most interactions I hear. I think I am still at the receptive level and know that it proceeds the
productive level. I hope to learn more as I am now retired.
I think you are right about learning the language. Language is the portal to learning the culture. When I ask for the meaning of a word, I learn a lot
about the context of that word and thereby more about the culture.
Thanks for the observation on the significance of language in understanding culture.
Iflyfish when not searching for polabras
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
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Hose A,
Bruce,
"I think fly fishing is a good outlet. especially if you are alone?"
Hose A
"Beats me is there more than one way to read it?
I have tried left to right and right to left."
This is getting better and better and funnier and funnier.
Ever fished for your fly in public?, dressed right or left?
Iflyfish when alone and in public and am sometimes successful in catching my fly both ways
Now stop it!
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Bruce,
"I think fly fishing is a good outlet. especially if you are alone?"
Is it only me that read it that way?
Iflyfish |
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......Nope, not just you!  (((and Hose A's response suspiciously follows suit, especially with that innocent little icon he used!)))
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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I guess I am stupid but I don't get the joke. I am not seeing whatever you folks
are seeing in my post. did I misspell something
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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pacificobob
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Posts: 2241
Registered: 4-23-2006
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there is a
book titled THERE'S A WORD FOR IT IN MEXICO ( a complete guide to mexican thought and culture) by boye' lafayette de mente . i cant say enough good
about it.....it can save one years of figuring things out for yourself the hard way.
as for the "sure ill be at your party, or ill be there to start work first thing in the morning"...most cultures , some more than others have a really
hard time delivering a bad news message. ive been flying internationally for over 20 years...ill always brief a new co-pilot on how to interpret what
a mechanic is "really" saying....it can and has been a very big issue.....some cultures have a really tough time delivering news tha they think you
may not want to hear.
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Hose A,
Bruce,
"I think fly fishing is a good outlet. especially if you are alone?"
Hose A
"Beats me is there more than one way to read it?
I have tried left to right and right to left."
This is getting better and better and funnier and funnier.
Ever fished for your fly in public?, dressed right or left?
Iflyfish when alone and in public and am sometimes successful in catching my fly both ways
Now stop it! |
This the thread about cultural differences? This seems to be MULTICULTURAL
understanding-
OKAY now serious
Being from another culture myself on this board, and lived in some other cultures for years.
I have experienced lots of FUN, Frustration, Education, mostly because I tried to SPEAK not only their language - also living their Livestyle (to some
limit). And that brought me respect and lifelong friends. I was faster accepted and involved in the community when displaying honest interest and
respect to their way of living.
My 2 cents
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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Dear Mr. Fish (now that your name has been permanently corrupted in my mind..........!!)
Yes, you may call me that portion of my online name...online! Thank you for your positive comments! I too can relate to occasional frustration even
after 7 years! All the more reason for tolerance of cultural differences; ours are just as much an inherent part of us as any nationality's is. It's
harder to divert from our inbred cultural tendencies after 50-60-70 years of living with them than it would be for a 10-year-old! It's like we don't
have to consciously think to breath or blink...they're so ingrained in us, that we rarely question the whys or wherefores....it JUST IS! It's hard to
walk away from 50-60-70 years of thought processes. It's programmed into us! It's like our skin, it kinda just tags along with us where ever we
go...those little memory chips!! Those Buddhists were right! And our
frustrations can only mirror any other different nationality's frustrations in trying to understand & accept our cultural differences from theirs!
Diversity....ain't it great?!
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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Not undestanding is part of the cultural difference
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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Longleg - you are correct about the " old habits hard dying" problem within the human beings.
But I have to disagre with the skin analogy to some degree, although it can be perfectly used for what I believe in.
As the skin is renewed on an daily basis - and within 2 weeks we have a complete NEW skin - and still ol' habits!!
Maybe we (humans) should do the same? Changing by adjusting every so often, just keeping the important features (likes the wrinkles in a faces or
moles) that make us distinctive, a personality. And sheding the flaws??
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Lee
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Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by pacificobob
book titled THERE'S A WORD FOR IT IN MEXICO ( a complete guide to mexican thought and culture) by boye' lafayette de mente . i cant say enough good
about it.....it can save one years of figuring things out for yourself the hard way.
as for the "sure ill be at your party, or ill be there to start work first thing in the morning"...most cultures , some more than others have a really
hard time delivering a bad news message. ive been flying internationally for over 20 years...ill always brief a new co-pilot on how to interpret what
a mechanic is "really" saying....it can and has been a very big issue.....some cultures have a really tough time delivering news tha they think you
may not want to hear. |
Yes great book. And here's another one: Mexicans & Americans -- Cracking the Cultural Code. Ned Crouch. Nicholas Brealey Pub.
People everywhere have difficulty delivering bad news.
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
Not undestanding is part of the cultural difference |
Not necessarily, how often I do not understand my own culture. Every person is different, and has different experiences, devlops his own kind of
culture.
I don't think we have to UNDERSTAND evreything, just respect it and not disqualify it automatically as WRONG if it dosn't match up with what we are
used to.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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FARASHA, skin renewal; sloughing off of old cells; is something that Mother Nature performs, it takes NO conscious effort on our part. It DOES
require conscious effort to shed our ingrained cultural differences. It is possible, but to me not quite as painless & effortless as your skin
analogy. For me personally, it's been easier to accept the cultural differences with an occasional frustration flare-up, than it has for me to become
fluent in Espanol.
Change comes very easily for some of us & not so easily for others. Just like different people have an inherently easy time learning a second
(third/fourth/fifth!!! ) language, while others find it very hard. I'm
learning at my own pace & it's not something that comes easily for me personally! To me it's like some people have an aptitude for math or sports
while others don't. I find that something that escaped me yesterday suddenly makes sense to me today , and I can't figure out what took me so long! Most of the people I deal with appreciate my feeble attempts,
while for others I provide comic relief!
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