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JZ
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
How does Mexico really benefit when the tourists and ex-pats come and spend their dollars to have them sent back to corporate America? And why leave
your hometown to eat at Appleby's or Carl Jr"s? |
They aren't building those for gringos. I can assure you of that. All those are being built in Hermosillo. There aren't many gringos there.
Mexicans benefit from generally better selection and prices at Home Depot and Costco.
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Paula
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My point is that if Mexico must emulate the worst of America business and culture, perhaps they would be better off doing it through Soriana or
Gigante, and whatever else they could develop to fill their own needs. Why should Mexicans contribute to US corporate profits?
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JZ
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No, you have modified your point, because you realized it was flawed. Your new point is equally flawed.
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Mango
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Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JZ
| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja Bucko
hmmmmmm.....
Let's see...why have I been going to Mexico for over 35 yrs? To go to Walmart and eat at Applebees???? Was all over Sonora in 1980 and Hermosillo
sounds like it just ain't the same. Just what we all need- wall-to-wall high-rises from Rocky Point to Kino Bay..... |
Hmmmmm... I guess you would like the Mexicans to remain in poverty so you can travel to another country absent of commerce. Seems to me you are a
very selfish person based on those statements.
[Edited on 12-18-2006 by JZ] |
I'm sure it's been posted here before.. but here is a nice little story about "improvements"
-=-=-=-=-=-
An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small
boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.
The Mexican replied, "only a little while."
The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish?
The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.
The American then asked, "but what do you do with the rest of your time?"
The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each
evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life."
The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the
proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a
middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution.
You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your
expanding enterprise."
The Mexican fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all take?"
To which the American replied, "15 - 20 years."
"But what then?" Asked the Mexican.
The American laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and
become very rich, you would make millions!"
"Millions - then what?"
The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids,
take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."
-=-=-=-=-
I'm all for Mexicans improving their lives and communities. I have allways have a mixed reaction about "progress". Mexico has had plenty of commerce
for eons. The markets of Teotihuacan were vast and famous. However; I'd rather travel to a foreign country to do business with foreign businesses.
If I wanted to eat at McDonalds and stay in an overpirced Hilton.. I'd just go down the street. We even have tacos here too, at Taco Bell, and I hear
people get sick there just like in Mexico! However; I'll be the first one to admit I often eat at a modern Vips or Sanborns when in Mexico City. (I
love Vips)
The reality is. The world is dynamic and changes. Mexico has never been the same since the first fish crawled out of the water. Later the Toltecs,
Aztecs, and later Cortez and then the French imposed their changes. International businesses are the modern day "Cortez" in Mexico. They bring
change, new ways, new ideas and often spell death to the old ways.
Modernification is not inherently bad. I just love Mexican culture and history; and, would rather see them keep an identity of their own and support
their own businesses.
I don't see why you would be confused why people would be upset about changes and development. It is just natural. The older someone is, the more
they want the world to stay the same. The younger someone is, the more they are open to new ideas. It's just a hunch; but, I'd suspect we have many
older people on this board.
I'd also suspect one of the main reasons most people goto Baja to enjoy the natural beauty and solitude. I have few old secret campgrounds here in
Alta California under foundations of new "modern" hotels, etc.. I can't afford to stay there now, nor would I want to.
I thank you for your posts. They are very informative and well worded. I know progress often has good intentions and results; however, for me and
others it is sad to see the old days and old ways slowly disapear forever. It's like losing an old friend.
Cheers, have a great tomorrow, and maybe I'll see you at Vips someday. 
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capt. mike
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the one thing no one except a few business minded folks understand here is.............
Ta Da!!...........drumroll please.........ONE WORLD, ONE ECONOMY!!
Get used to it. It's here to stay. This ain't the 1800s anymore. The revolution in communications and travel has manefested itself in the power of
convenient trade. Mexico and USA will forever be strong trading partners and our common likes will merge, We like beach front...........they like
Applebees and Walmart. good for us both.
And if you like solace.....it's easy to find places undeveloped. go and enjoy those too.
Interesting factoid:
everyone living on the planet right now, if the were on a 4000 SF lot and small tract home, 4 to a home, all would fit in the geographical area of
Texas.
there's a lot of extra space in the mundo!
Minnow - tell me more of your plans to be in Kino. I'd like to come down.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Minnow
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The liberal perspective. Anti business, anti government, anti development. Yet at the same time, the government is supposed to provide all the
entitlements the underprivledged demand. Give me a flippin break. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Wise up.
Mike, leaving friday, returning the 3rd.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Cypress
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Investors are already lining-up to pour $$$ into Cuba with the hopes that, after Castro, Cuba will be open for development.  Might draw some of the high dollar investors away from other potential resort-type
areas.
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HotSchott
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JZ
No, you have modified your point, because you realized it was flawed. Your new point is equally flawed. |
Wow, I thought I was the only one who is always right...kinda like "when I want your opinion I will give you one"...truly beautiful dude!
Anyway, I can't wait until there is enough development in Mexico to allow Mexicans to see the value in staying home. Nothing would make me happier
than to see the Mexican people develop and sustain a first world economy that could feed, employ and house its population inside its own borders. It
will be a great thing for the future of Mexico and it will start with economic growth and development. Maybe someday hoards of illiterate and
unskilled Americans will be looking for work on the corners of every Home Depot in Mexico. It would be amazing to see Middle class Mexicans driving
nice cars and living in beautiful homes in well kept neighborhoods on both coasts of the Sea of Cortez.
Given the difficulties involved with land ownership, immigration, employment and importation of goods into Mexico for Non-Mexicans, I would find it
very difficult to believe that large American Corporations will be ripping off the Mexican Government and sending ALL their profits back home. You
have to be pretty naive to think any of the millions of dollars needed to set up shop and make these ventures work will not be a huge long-term
benefit to the infrastructure of Mexico. There will be lots of Mexicans benefitting from this stuff before any of it gets off the ground. It aint
small town, but what is? They can't all be bamboo farmers and fisherman and the Peace Corps and Missionaries can't be our only legacy.
$$
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Minnow
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Jorge, We went last year and had a great time. The game went 14 innings and the final score was like 17 to 18.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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MrBillM
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Ever Changing
There is a significant irony in hearing from people who are late-comers themselves complain about change albeit those changes are coming a quicker
pace. Most of us hope that the moment we arrived would be frozen in time, but those who arrived twenty years earlier hoped for the same thing.
I once had an old friend and fanatic fisherman who had been going to his spot in San Carlos for six months out of every year. When he finally sold
out in the late 80s (early 90s ?) after some 20 years and bought an isolated place in British Columbia, I asked him why he was leaving. His reply was
"That there are so damned many Gringos, I think you need a Visa to get in if you're Mexican".
I'll bet today that some or most of those late-arriving Gringos that drove him away are bemoaning the current changes.
[Edited on 12-18-2006 by MrBillM]
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Barry A.
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Hotshott------and MrBill------
----both excellent posts, and right on target, I believe, as are others here.
Bravo!!
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wilderone
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"Nothing would make me happier than to see the Mexican people develop and sustain a first world economy that could feed, employ and house its
population inside its own borders."
Might be difficult on that restaurant or sales job salary. Minimum wage in Mexico? Don't think so.
A case in point is the Yucatan Peninsula. No need to speculate on what-ifs - you can see the result. The hard fact is that the genuineness of the
Yucatan peninsula is gone and in its place, 65 mph 4-lane highway, an appalling, shocking, very disturbing amount of plastic, glass and wood debris
on the beaches for miles and miles and miles, Sams Club, Office Depot. The development projects bring in more people (not necessarily the ones who
live there) who must find an affordable place to live, which are not being built - only megaresorts are being built. The traditional thatched roof
huts are STILL what they build and live in. 40 years later, and the people who lived in pre-Cancun still build thatched roof huts for themselves.
Some of the shanty neighborhoods on the outskirts of Playa del Carmen is testament to the post-Cancun development success or lack thereof. It doesn't
necessarily follow that development brings prosperity to those living there. And in the process, the irony of it all, is that what was the draw is
being destroyed - the beaches are filthy with litter, the coral reef bays are 95% destroyed, beach access is extremely limited due to the private
property. This is not progress - it is doom rushing headlong into the future and you cannot go back. Yet, new development in Mexico is emulated by
the short-sighted and ignorant who are impressed with the norteamericano way - itself disasterous (WalMart employees on welfare, Enron-sized
businesses going belly-up, etc.) - while they could handle development in a way that would sustain itself and preserve the very qualities that create
the attraction in the first place. But they do not.
I had a great time camping in the Yucatan peninsula because I drove 200 miles away from the development and mingled with the local people on their own
properties - thatched roof huts with turkeys and baby pigs roaming around; sharing a $1.50 pineapple and warming by a wood fire in the jungle. It was
difficult to sit on a littered beach or snorkle in a pool that should have had fish, but have long gone and not feel some despair. This is the
consequence of development for development's sake. Same thing happening in Loreto now. And it's sad.
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Packoderm
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The plastic garbage on the beaches of the Quintana Roo coast did not come from Mexico. If you pick some of it up and look, you'll see it is just about
all U.S. products. The rumor is that huge garbage barges dump garbage from Florida and other Southern states into the Atlantic, and some of it washes
to the beaches south.
As far as the need for every coastal community, U.S. as well as Mexico, to emulate the development as experienced by Los Angeles, it seems that we
humans are alike to salmon swimming upstream to spawn and face an inevitable death. We might not want to do it, but we just can't help ourselves.
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JZ
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Reading between the lines what I'm hearing from you two is that Americans and the American way of life is horrible. Wow. Maybe it's time for you to
move to Europe, Canada, or the Far East. Have at it.
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wilderone
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"Reading between the lines what I'm hearing from you two is that Americans and the American way of life is horrible. Wow. Maybe it's time for you to
move to Europe, Canada, or the Far East. Have at it."
You have a reading comprehension problem.
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Cypress
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Garbage barges from southern states?? Those dumb southern rednecks just don't
care where they dump their garbage. Come on! Jeez! They probably eat grits also, can't spell polenta.  
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Packoderm
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When my grandmother lived in Los Angeles in the 1940s to 1950s, the American lifestyle there was just fine for her. However, it changed; she couldn't
take it anymore, so she had to move out. Now the same thing is happening to us here in No. Calif. It has become unsafe for our children to attend
public High Schools here. I love America and the American lifestyle. I just hate to see it go to crap. I like what Portland Or. has been doing better.
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JZ
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"Reading between the lines what I'm hearing from you two is that Americans and the American way of life is horrible. Wow. Maybe it's time for you to
move to Europe, Canada, or the Far East. Have at it."
You have a reading comprehension problem. |
Don't think so... especially from the the PacMan.
[Edited on 12-18-2006 by JZ]
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wilderone
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I had plenty of opportunity to see the beach trash. It is bottles of suntan lotion, about 1,000,000 plastic water, soda and juice bottles, hundreds
of plastic sandals and other shoes, beer and liquor bottles, plastic oil containers, plastic beach chairs, blue tarps, probably a ton of polyurethane
rope, fishing line, all kinds of wood debris, plastic bags of all kinds, travel sized shampoo, etc. In my opinion, it is the trash of the tourists
and local Mexicans - a direct result of development. And there is no plan to clean it up. An ecological disaster.
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JZ
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Sounds f'd up. But don't assume all dev will be that incompetent.
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