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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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The barges come from NY&NJ on there way to Haiti. they are not covered and crap blows off it and ends up on some beach where it mixes with
mexican beach crap. The highest mountain in FL is south of Miami, its a mountain made of trash. You can see it miles away. looks like a Disney version
of Mt hood.
The new national bird of Mexico should be all the plastic bags flying around. GO WALMART!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Any trash from the southern states of the USA is more than likely the backwash from hurricane Katrina.
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JZ
Sounds f'd up. But don't assume all dev will be that incompetent. |
Call back when you are feeling
better.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Personally I believe that all these problems result from population explosion, and migration to the "promise land" that these resort areas represent
to some, and the kind of folks that are attracted to them.
7 years ago we spent 3 weeks driving around the Yucatan and we sure did not see all these problems detailed-----we stayed in old Cancun, Tulum,
Vallidolid, and many of the small villages thruout Quintana Roo, Campeche, and the Merida area. We thought the whole place was delightful, and pretty
darn prosperous, especially as compared to Belize. Belize was a disaster in the making. Spent a month in Belize, but will never go back. We did not
see/go to any of the touristy places, tho. Belize City was the worse place I ever stayed, ANYWHERE!! I gave a huge sigh of relief when we bussed
into Mexico from Belize-----one of our favorite places was Chetumal----a delightful city. I would revisit the Yucatan in a heartbeat. Cancun
peninsula was pretty tacky to us, and we simply drove thru, and then on into Old Cancun which we loved. Merida and Campeche were wonderful. All
appeared prosperous to us.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
I had plenty of opportunity to see the beach trash. It is bottles of suntan lotion, about 1,000,000 plastic water, soda and juice bottles, hundreds
of plastic sandals and other shoes, beer and liquor bottles, plastic oil containers, plastic beach chairs, blue tarps, probably a ton of polyurethane
rope, fishing line, all kinds of wood debris, plastic bags of all kinds, travel sized shampoo, etc. In my opinion, it is the trash of the tourists
and local Mexicans - a direct result of development. And there is no plan to clean it up. An ecological disaster. |
Sounds like what you find at Malarimo beach on the Viscaino Peninsula.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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HotSchott
Nomad
Posts: 156
Registered: 9-4-2003
Location: Sandy Eggo
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I refuse to get caught up in a political debate about whose fault garbage is, but blaming development is like getting angry at the tide coming in.
Why is it that some people are so passionate in their descriptions of the societal ills like pollution and poverty? If you feel so passionate about
how screwed up it is, take a roll of garbage bags on your next road trip and spend some time cleaning your least favorite stretch of beach.
Contribute your money to programs that teach people to recycle. Pollution is what happens when people don't have values that include clean public
spaces. Why not volunteer your time to engage locals to clean their beaches? Blaming development for pollution will not stop development and won't
remove pollution. If the only industry supporting an economy is tourism which results in irresponsible development, uncontrolled pollution and abject
poverty, you can be sure the attraction will fade and the tourism will go elsewhere - so it is not sustainable. The only constant is change. The
evolution of paradise in the modern world is to become something else. If this bothers you, let your actions be as obvious as your words and be the
difference instead of simply reporting the scope and magnitude of the problem. Global whining is making people deaf. Post some pictures of the beach
or creek that you just cleaned, the house you just built for an impoverished family, the medical clinic where you volunteer your time. Sitting there
at your keyboard bashing development in Mexico and describing the places you won't go back to just tells me that you aren't capable of understanding
what is really wrong or aren't willing to involve yourself in the solution.
On a final note, making ends meet on a restaurant salary probably doesn't appeal to a lot of people including my Mother-in-law who raised five kids
waiting tables. If your perspective includes making ends meet by being a prostitute then the restaurant job might start to look a little better. Of
course, maybe we should all support growth which only allows Mexicans to earn a $2.80 a day making pinatas and subsistence farming to feed their
families.
$$
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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Contribute my money to fix the problem. I never heard of that before. Where do I send my tax deductible check.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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I don't think you guys understand the scope of garbage flotsom on the beaches south of Tulum. I've seen it about 6 years ago while stopping on the way
to Punta Allen. There was enough garbage such as plastic quart Penzoil bottles to fill a bunch of dump trucks all on just one small stretch of beach
(less than 100 yards) that would have otherwise been pristine. I should have taken pictures of it. It was simply breathtaking. There are no tourists
or tourist facilities there, and camping is not allowed. Probably the only ones really being hurt by this are the sea turtles. There are not enough
garbage bags at a dozen home depot stores that would take care of what I saw. But I have joined in on what HotSchott suggests at several beaches and
rivers. If you guys want to see some real amounts of garbage, just look at a couple abandoned homeless camps at my grampa's old property and along the
Sacramento and American rivers. Dump trucks upon dump trucks.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
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Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Some good posts here. Once again, the anti development crowd is trying to duck the question.
"The gulf stream runs south to north. It is impossible for trash from New Jersy to end up in the yucatan inless it traveled to africa first.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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Not New Jersey - from Florida. Well that's what I heard anyway. But I have heard that the beaches around the New Jersey/New York area were really nice
at one time, but the garbage barges from New York fouled them with a black sludge. It is supposed to be getting better since they eased up on the
practice.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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mexicans are the worst at blatent littering. the americans generally clean up as i've witnessed. they seem to care more, its been ingrained into us
since the ad campaigns started in the 60s when we were growing up.
woodsy owl....give a hoot, don't pollute etc.
hey you environmental wackjobs out there, quit blaming gringos for all the litter.
glad to hear from the anti development crowd as now and then i enjoy a good whine with my cheeze crisps!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
mexicans are the worst at blatent littering. the americans generally clean up as i've witnessed. they seem to care more, its been ingrained into us
since the ad campaigns started in the 60s when we were growing up.
woodsy owl....give a hoot, don't pollute etc.
hey you environmental wackjobs out there, quit blaming gringos for all the litter.
glad to hear from the anti development crowd as now and then i enjoy a good whine with my cheeze crisps! |
Hey Mike, chill out and have a beer with some chips instead! And a chaser of Patron of course!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bancoduo
Contribute my money to fix the problem. I never heard of that before. Where do I send my tax deductible check. |
Banco, just make that check out to The Loreto Bay Company and you can help make Loreto a better place with a higher standard of living for EVERYONE
through the magic of Sustainable Development! But sorry, no tax deduction unless the whole project goes belly up.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3779
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"spend some time cleaning your least favorite stretch of beach. Contribute your money to programs that teach people to recycle. Pollution is what
happens when people don't have values that include clean public spaces. Why not volunteer your time to engage locals to clean their beaches? Blaming
development for pollution will not stop development and won't remove pollution. "
I DO ALL OF THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS AND HAVE FOR YEARS AND THEN SOME - YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. WHY DON'T THEY CLEAN THEIR BEACHES? WHY DON'T THEY
SEE THE BIG PICTURE? WHERE IS THEIR GOVERNMENT? WHERE IS THEIR MUNICIPAL PLANNING? IF "DEVELOPMENT" HAD A CLEAN-UP OR POLLUTION REMOVAL COMPONENT TO
IT, IT WOULD REMOVE POLLUTION. PACKODERM HAS TRIED TO EXLAIN - IT WOULD TAKE AN ENTIRE ARMY - NO KIDDING - A YEAR AT LEAST - TO REMOVE ALL THAT
TRASH. I DON'T CARE WHERE IT COMES FROM - THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT - NOT ME - MUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT IS ON THEIR SHORES ON THEIR BEACHES.
MY LAME ATTEMPT TO GATHER 10 FOOT CIRCUMFERENCE OF TRASH IN A PILE SO I COULD SIT AND NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT IT WHILE I WAS THERE, MADE NO IMPACT
WHATSOVER. I'M TALKING ABOUT 50 MILES OF TRASH.
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Minnow
Some good posts here. Once again, the anti development crowd is trying to duck the question.
"The gulf stream runs south to north. It is impossible for trash from New Jersy to end up in the yucatan inless it traveled to africa first.
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Read what I said. The barges are going to HAITI, which is below the gulfstream and due east of Yucatan.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3779
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"Post some pictures of the beach or creek that you just cleaned, the house you just built for an impoverished family, the medical clinic where you
volunteer your time."
IF I KNEW HOW TO POST PICTURES I WOULD. IF I WASN'T AT WORK USING THEIR COMPUTER I WOULD. I HAVE THE PHOTOS OF THE RIVER THAT I DUG A TON OF TAMARASK;
I HAVE THE PHOTOS OF THE ALPINE LAKE WHERE I PLANTED 100'S OF NEW PLANTS; I HAVE THE PHOTOS OF THE TRAILS THAT I BUILT, ROCKED, BERMED; HAVE THE
PHOTOS OF THE CLASSROOM I HELPED BUILD FOR THE ZAPATISTAS; DON'T HAVE THE PHOTOS OF THE BOOKS I'VE DONATED TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT THE NATURAL WORLD
THEY SHOULD PROTECT; DON'T HAVE PHOTOS OF THE MONEY I HAVE DONATED TO THE TARAHUMARA CLINIC, THE SCHOOL BUILDING PROJECT IN CHIAPAS; DON'T HAVE PHOTOS
OF THE 200 PACKETS OF VEGETABLE SEEDS, CRAYONS, PAPER, SEWING KITS I'VE DISTRIBUTED IN INDIGENOUS AREAS.
I DO MY PART. AND BRINGING THE PROBLEM TO THE ATTENTION OF OTHERS IS SOMETHING - IT IS NOT WHINING. IF I COULD UNDERLINE AND BOLD SOME OF THESE WORDS
I WOULD - IT WOULD EXPRESS MY FRUSTRATION WITH YOUR ATTITUDE. WHY ARE YOU STICKING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND AND CRITICIZING WHEN YOU SHOULD BE LISTENING
AND LEARNING AND MAYBE YOU COULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?
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Bob H
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5867
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
7 years ago we spent 3 weeks driving around the Yucatan and we sure did not see all these problems detailed-----we stayed in old Cancun, Tulum,
Vallidolid, and many of the small villages thruout Quintana Roo, Campeche, and the Merida area. We thought the whole place was delightful, and pretty
darn prosperous. I would revisit the Yucatan in a heartbeat. Cancun peninsula was pretty tacky to us, and we simply drove thru, and then on into Old
Cancun which we loved. Merida and Campeche were wonderful. All appeared prosperous to us. |
Barry, my wife and I did the same trip to the Yucatan last year and it is exactly as you describe it. We really enjoyed that trip and seeing all the
Myan ruins, etc. Beautiful people and wonderful little villages.
Bob H
The SAME boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you are made of NOT the circumstance.
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HotSchott
Nomad
Posts: 156
Registered: 9-4-2003
Location: Sandy Eggo
Member Is Offline
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Wilderone,
You sound like a real saint. You have obviously performed a lifetimes worth of community service. I don't know what the problem is with Mexicans.
They don't seem to possess the same values as many other countries when it comes to pollution. I suppose poverty has a lot to do with it, but it
truly is about their values being different. It is what it is.
I still say that responsible development is plausible and necessary for so many reasons in Mexico. Without it Mexico will NEVER feed and house its
growing population. Rather than identify what I know to be problems and places that have been screwed up by pollution, I will continue to seek out
places that I enjoy and immerse myself in what beauty I can find. It must be very frustrating for you to feel so disillusioned with development and
be so helpless to alter its course. I suggest two or three Pacifico's in the solitude of the remote desert somewhere. Go at night so you don't see
the trash.
$$
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baja829
Nomad
Posts: 167
Registered: 2-24-2006
Location: South Campos, San Felipe, BN
Member Is Offline
Mood: BAJA HAPPY
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I leased a "little" place in Choya Bay, (Rocky Point) in 1963. Incredible fishing village - shrimp $1.80 kilo, etc. etc., sold it all in 1985 -- as
it began to balloon-- went back 2 yrs ago and could not recognize it. Will not be going back anytime soon, but know that someday, here in San Felipe,
the same can and will happen. Fortunately it's being "well-done" which is a consolation. We still don't have electricity in the South Campos, and
it's a ways off, but it will happen. Rocky Point lost it's identity due to Americans. Now they have built what they wanted - a place to party. Baja
has so much more to offer as so many are discovering.
Economically, jobs create opportunity and growth for local populations. It allows nationals to stay home - the salaries will never meet what they can
receive in the U.S., but it's still an opportunity. If you don't want growth in Mexico, Mexicans will continue to go North. If there's growth here
and continued opportunity, due to the Tourist and Rentista dollar, they'll seek those opportunities here. We can't have our cake and eat it too! To
us Mexico will always be more than a wonderful place to live. Can't ask for more.
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9259
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Every Mexican I know would rather stay in Mexico. It is lack of opportunity that makes them go North. I know dozens of people in their early 20's in
San Carlos. All have university degrees. The opportunities are limited.
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