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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
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Location: Sunset Beach
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Legalizing Addictive drugs--THE ANSWER
This is a response to the add ons that appeared on the post by BajaNomad--"Bad, bad news from amigo BajaCactus" (a very old post so don't get excited
as I did when it was revived)
Please see the below links for the final answers to this burning question.
http://www.break.com/index/effect_of_drugs_and_alcohol_on_sp...
P.S. Did you know that up until about WWI anyone could walk into any drug store in the US and purchase all of the known narcotic drugs of the
time.............Heron, Opium, and others without a prescription...........Oh! yeah. Coke had the real thing in those days..............Wonder what
behaviors caused the government to make all of these substances illegal.
Could it have anything to do with the behavior of some-----including Sigmund Freud who just knew that his snorting cocaine made him a better
scientist and researcher----see the "Rise and Fall of Sigmund Freud" before you buy into any of his ideas-----------oh! is this information about
Freud to late for some?
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Baja Bernie
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grover
After affects sounds like a good round of sex to me. Hope the wife would think the same or similarly at least.  
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Dave
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Free lunch questions
| Quote: | Originally posted by grover
a Much stronger argument is made for legalization by illustrating the benefits to the rest of society of removing the profit motive of the
traffickers.
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If traffickers were no longer making a profit would drugs then be free to all?
Would addicts be able to walk in to a pharmacy and get as much as they want, when ever they wanted?
And if they had to pay would they all get jobs to support their habit?
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Don Alley
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As far as I am concerned they can legalize drugs. The "war on drugs" has been a failure; we've gone from hippies smuggling a couple of keys to
murderous para-military narco armies. Meanwhile we wait in line for hours at the border as if it really makes any difference. The best enforcement can
do is to keep prices high, so the addicts have to steal more of our stuff to pay for their habits.
However, legalizing drugs could have other consequences. For example, consider those who profit from the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs. Take
away their profits by legalizing, what will they do next? Get jobs?
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abreojos
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Great point. These people will continue being a problem. They are as bad as terrorist and the only way to deal with them is the way we deal with
terrorist. Seal the border as tight as a gnat's ars and those who dare be on this side beware. It's going to get ugly.
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Capt. George
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they'd probably go to work for our "legal" thieving drug manufacturers. More money in it!
Make it legal, remember prohibition.. those that can't get off it, give em more and more and more till they overdose...It would be a blessing to our
society to get rid of crack heads and their like.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Capt. George
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you know you can count me in...personnaly I'd rather cremate them, alive.
unfortuneately as long as the market is there, the product will follow. Supply and demand.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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oldhippie
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If an old hippie can chime in here by quoting someone else on the Prohibition law:
"The prestige of government has undoubtably been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of the respect for the
government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this
country is closely connected with this." Albert Einstein, 1921
I often liken what's happening in Tijuana and other Mexican cities to what happened in Chicago and other US cities during Prohibition, which is what
Einstein was addressing.
But, I don't know about legalization of drugs. I've been told some are much more addictive and dangerous than alcohol.
If only the war on drugs would stop. That's what I want. War means violence and it's the violence that's the real problem. Neither drugs nor their
market will ever go away. Both the police and the dealers need to tone it way down and take violence out of the equation.
Peace and tranquilizers, oops, I mean tranquility.
Old hippie.
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Capt. George
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war on drugs is nothing more then a boondoggle of taxpayers money. Laughable if it were not so pathetic. Would not mind the violence if it just
affected the users and pushers, unfortuneately it affects all of us.
it would cost less, in (decent) lives & money to give away drugs to users....give them ALL they want and then some. take away the need to rob and
pillage.....leave that to the pirates...(man I wish I had been a pirate!)
White Beard
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Baja Bernie
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Summanus
A real 'hot' fix would be most appropiate for anyone who makes a profit from illegal drugs. The death from a hot load is not pleasant to view.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Sharksbaja
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Moderation, the key?
As the casual (adult)alcoholic enjoys the fruits of his labor, a bottle of blackberry brandy he just made, so does the ol' pothead who just rolled his
homegrown joint. Both will succomb to a buzz which they can enjoy in the comfort, privacy and security of their home.
If they plan on being intoxicated in public they should plan on problems.
I have no problem with the first scenario. But people have different threshholds. A 90 lb gal certainly could not imbibe like a 300 lb Englishman.
I am certain though that many drugs could not be managed through moderation. Like crack, crank, coke or...... alcohol.
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Baja Bernie
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This may sound a bit nuts, or like I just hit on a bong, but I think that the drug war was/are exactly that and that it was/is aimed at the Western
Nations much like the British used it against the Court of China. Most of these Opium Barons became respected members of the upper class of England
(a tad like the Kennedy clan as it relates to prohibition of alcohol in the United States) http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
Many of us seem to forget that beer and wine were considered a food and additionally got a great start because the water in many areas was of such
purity that it could/did kill the folks who were crazy enough to drink it. (Interesting the number of times China attempted to prohibit it, to no
avail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_alcohol
I believe that as long as the precursors to the manufacturing of most all drugs is controlled by the leading families of the world and they make
tremendous profits from same then drugs will never be legalized nor taxed.
My bottom line is I do not wish to see America turned into a China of the Boxer/Opium Wars where they were defeated, in large measure, because of the
addiction involving so many of it’s citizens.
Think about it………….You can find a whole bunch of ‘old’ alcoholics who continue to drink.
But you find very few old dopers that continue to use hard drugs.
Just look to Hollywood and see the number of deaths involving most talented folks who were taken away in their prime. Look at heart attacks in folks
in their late 30’s and 40’s and then start looking for drug abuse and you might be amazed………………….and we only find out about a few of these cases.
Okay! I just blew up my soap box!
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
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Hot Load, I've had my share of those, boy they're great!
Am I on a different wavelength??? Been told I was froma different planet by some confused folk..Oh well
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
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whoever the incumbant is, vote his useless ass out!
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
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wait a minute I didn't realize all our politicos got thier ideas and views from thier burros...
never seen any large stables in and taround the famed halls of Congress.
Am I missing something here? Oh yeah, forgot, can't say heinie...
what a demented society we live in...hot loads, drugs, stuffing people in ovens, shooting them etc., etc. but don't say heimie????????
I need a St. Paulie Girl!
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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BajaBruno
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The best book I've read in favor of legalization is "Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do," McWilliams, Peter. Prelude Press, 1993. I'd like it better
if it had footnotes. I've not read a very convincing one opposed to legalization.
A chief deputy district attorney friend of mine once noted that after all the years and billions of dollars and dead cops spent on our alleged "war on
drugs," damn near any drug imaginable was available for the asking in almost any bar all across the country. He advocated legalizing all drugs
without limit. My immediate reaction was horror, but after a few days, and then a few year's reflection I came to agree with him. This was the same
guy who each Friday night played poker (which is illegal in California, of course) with the county sheriff, a couple of defense attorneys, and a
deputy chief of police. We will never be successful trying to legislate vice, no matter the penalties.
I suppose most of you know (just as Baja Bernie pointed out about the US early last century) that nearly any drug is available from any Mexican
pharmacy on demand. Just say you want it and they will provide it. That's the case in every Latin American country I have visited and probably many
more countries all over the world. I've never heard of a prescription "drug problem" in any of those countries. Well, maybe a "problem" of cancer
victims trying to bring reasonably priced foreign drugs back home to the US, but not many problems with the people in the country of origin. Is that
because US citizens have a lower resistance to drugs? Are we more dissolute?
I don't think so. I think it stems from the basic quality of independence that is ingrained in Americans. We simply don't like the government
telling us how to run our lives. It is the same quality that made alcohol use go from its lowest historic levels prior to Prohibition to its highest
historic use DURING Prohibition. Alcohol use in the US actually FELL after Prohibition, but has never fallen to pre-Prohibition levels. We'll play
poker in our homes if we please and we'll smoke dope if we please, laws or no laws.
Someone always replies, "Well, it's OK if you can handle it, or if you do it in your own home, but what about people who can't handle it, or people
who drive on opium?" It's been my experience that heroin and cocaine users are perfectly normal people when they have their drug---they can function
perfectly well in society. It is when they don't have their drug that they can become violent and shoot at my friends. I find the same situation
with people who are mentally ill simply because of a twist of fate and genes. When they take their drugs, they are fine; when they don't, they can be
violent.
I think drug users should be dealt with just like alcohol users: if you commit an offense against another person or their property under the influence
of your drug, society will punish that offense, not the drug use. The drug use is your personal business, not society's.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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fishbuck
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I've been watching this post with some interest.
I am a former pothead and beerhound.
I started smoking pot at about 13 and drinking beer at about 14. I'm now 47 and been completely clean for about 2.5 years. That's a long time to use
chemical substances even if they are fairly mild ones.
I came to the end of my 30 year fratboy existance shortly after I returned from a extended trip to Baja. On that trip I drank and smoked as much as I
wanted.
One day after I got home I decided that I just didn't want to live like that anymore. Fortunantely, I have never had any real problems with either
substance. I mean healthwise or legal. But I did see a lot of expat americans in Baja who were slowly drinking themselves to death and that's a bit
disturbing.And it's ugly. Also, where I live in Newport Beach, Ca. I see the same thing.
I decided that it's stupid to put poison in your body. I wish I would have made that decision sooner.
What's my point? Well, I think that freewill is my point. If you want to poison yourself go ahead. But don't break the law (not drug laws), infringe
on others rights or expect society to bear the cost of your decision. That includes tobbaco also. I hate cigarette smokers.
Both my uncle and my father died from a combination of lung cancer and alcoholism. That was stupid and unnecessary. Oh ya my grandfather also. My most
important male role models thought it was ok to poison themselves with these chemicals.
It took me a while to undo that influence and realise it's not ok to poison yourself with chemicals. I made a freewill decision to not use chemical
substances.
Why would anyone want to do that to themselves?
I've never been happier or healther. I recommend that peeple don't use these things and don't be influenced buy the marketing or friends and family
members.
If you love yourself then take care of yourself by eating and drinking the purist healtiest things you can get. Alcohol, tobbaco, other chemical
sustances (drugs) aren't necessary to sustane you and can only harm you.
It's your choice!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
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I'm not sure that I disagree with Soulpatch
BUT!
The thing about taxes caused me to think about a book on FDR that I was reading last night......................."The Anti Saloon League was bitter.
It carped that liquor was being brought back merely to tax and that before we were done we would REVIVE narcotics, lotteries and the fast houses to
solve the deficit."......................Funny, how the world moves we tax liquor and have made the lotteries a vehicle to tax those least able to
pay. Now many are calling for narcotics to be legalized so that it can be taxed.................Only thing left is the hoar houses.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
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They (cathouses) pay taxes HERE Bernie! Just a matter of time!
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Barry A.
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As a cop for over 30 years (now 11 years retired), and very involved in the "war on drugs", I find myself surprisingly being drawn to the camp of
Bajabruno and fishbuck.
Our existing policies are only marginally working. Lets try something else, and legalizing may be the answer.
Barry
(part of the reason that many in the law enforcement community oppose legalization is that we REALLY enjoyed the "war", and the inherent excitement
and overtime it provided, I am thinking-----blasphemy)
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