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bajabird
Nomad
Posts: 205
Registered: 12-22-2004
Location: LA & BCS
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Grand Cherokees for baja
anyone with Grand Cherokee upgrades, coments, problems, solutions..... especially to the death wobble problem
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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Do you have it? Trying to avoid it? PM me and I will try to help. Need a lot more info.
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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Gadget
Senior Nomad
Posts: 851
Registered: 9-10-2006
Location: Point Loma CA
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Mood: Blessed with another day
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Own a 2000 GC w/ V8 and Quadra drive. Wife would like suspension upgrade. Friends had same year with lift. No idea what brand. Had death wobble.
Tried everything to fix, no bueno. Sold it to someone who didn't know better I guess. Worked good in dirt but over 70mph on paverment, watch out!!!
I would be very interested to read input on this issue.
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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I have worked on lots of CJ's, YJ's, ZJ's and XJ's, never had one win yet. There are so many issues that cause the DW (death wobble) that is hard to
diagnose on the internet. This is not a Jeep thing it can happen to any suspension it is just more prevalent in solid axle vehicles.
1. I always start with the tires, rotate them and test. Broken cords, balance, bent wheels, uneven tread wear, they all can do it.
2. Get under the car, in the front and have someone saw back and forth on the steering wheel (engine running if PS equipped). Lay hands on the tie
rods, ball joints, control arm mounts, steering box mount, and the pan hard/track bar. You can feel a bad part lift in you hand. Listen for popping
noise, if you hear it, pin point it. Look for tears in the unit body around the steering box and track bar mount.
3. Look for leaks at the axle seals, shocks, and steering stabilizer. This could be a sign that the Dana 30 axle is bent and your alignments are
off. It is easier than you think to bend that thing.
4. If car has been modified look at the pinion angle.
These steps will usually find the culprit, If you find a problem, fix it. It may or may not fix the DW, but then it needs doing anyway. It is a
process to figure it out, I have seen people throw a lot of money at it and not fix the problem.
Some of the problems I have found personally
1. Tires 80% of the time
2. Track bar issues, bad joints or a bent bar
3. steering box tearing lose from mounts (lots of kits to fix this)
4. steering stabilizers
Gadget, use a good KIT, keep the tires rotated and the problems will be kept to a minimum.
Questions, ask away.
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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bajabird
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Posts: 205
Registered: 12-22-2004
Location: LA & BCS
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I had problems after putting the jks kit and terra lift kit on (which is all that is available for the gc). damm, going even 30mph and hitting a rut
only on pavement the wobble hits hard and only thing you can do is come to a stop to regain control.... ive searched all the jeep websites and its not
uncommon for jeeps and other vehicles that have obtained aftermarket lifts. some basic geometry changes in the steering system couple with the anti
lock brake system that causes the chatter.... it is dangerous and can be very fatal on the baja highways as nothing can stop the wobble accept a
complete stop.....
try to stop when passing anything.
high tire pressure has been my cure along with alignment. it still wants (the wobble) to happen but it hasnt yet. it has though with low tire
pressure... i dont get it, but i also get it
anyways, thats just a fault. i love my jeep grand cherokee and the power it has. but i am cautious about driving it, or loaning it to anyone who
will be on highway with it. never a problem off road.
i would love to know of other upgrades to do to it.
and, my doors are ready to vibrate off when running the washboard roads, any suggestions?
i thought about putting rubber dampners along the door sealing area to make it tighter.
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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You have put a little band aid on it with the tire presure, lower your tires and find the problem.
I need to know more, Tire size? how much lift? are your control arms adjustable? Is your front drive shaft looking straight at your T-case? What
shocks are you running?
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
Posts: 1035
Registered: 9-6-2006
Location: Back in CA
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I have a '97 GC (street use only, with 75k miles) that had a howling/grinding noise in the rear end. I just got it back from the rear end specialist
who replaced the carrier bearings and the pinon bearing(s). This is now the second time (different repairman this time) for this repair. He
mentioned the Dana rear end is "much less than rugged). I don't think this is news to GC people.
My dearly beloved who drives the car loves it---I'm much less impressed with it.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Geronimo
I have worked on lots of CJ's, YJ's, ZJ's and XJ's, never had one win yet. There are so many issues that cause the DW (death wobble) that is hard to
diagnose on the internet. This is not a Jeep thing it can happen to any suspension it is just more prevalent in solid axle vehicles.
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Man I'm glad you did not say MB/GPW.... Have had jeeps for many years... Don't know why but most folks always overlook the steering
dampner/stabilizer. Like most shocks, they wear out and are an easy fix.
the only wobble mine has is the heart wobble when the throttle is pushed too hard
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rts551
Elite Nomad
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And you ask why a heart wobble on a 1943 GPW? but no steering wobble
[Edited on 5-27-2007 by rts551]
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Ken Cooke
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Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
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I too had a worn stock steering stabilizer that contributed greatly to my DW problems after lifting my Jeep.
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bajabird
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Posts: 205
Registered: 12-22-2004
Location: LA & BCS
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I have 33" goodrich at's, american racing wheels (centered). JKS lift, bilsein 5500 shocks, Rancho stabilzer, and completely went through the front
end. There hasnt been any wobble since the front end work and alignment, though on some ruts.... the front end kinda feels like it wants to wobble.
One thing that was found was that the steering box was not impacted totally tight as well. Its been a year since the last wobble though, and that
one was on the way to the alignment shop in constitution city. From there it went to the race shop for total front end makeover.
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bajabird
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Nice rig RTS!
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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Could be bump steer. Look at the angle of the steering in relation to the angle of the track bar. In the pic you will see that they are nearly
parallel during articulation. This is good, if yours is not you will need to modify the steering and/or track bar to fix this. Did your kit include
a modified track bar or a dropped pitman arm?
Kenneth
Photo credit: www.tntcustoms.com
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
I have a '97 GC (street use only, with 75k miles) that had a howling/grinding noise in the rear end. I just got it back from the rear end specialist
who replaced the carrier bearings and the pinon bearing(s). This is now the second time (different repairman this time) for this repair. He
mentioned the Dana rear end is "much less than rugged). I don't think this is news to GC people.
My dearly beloved who drives the car loves it---I'm much less impressed with it. |
The ruggedness of the rear axle has nothing to do with the fact that the bearings went out. They went out from being installed wrong or lack of
lubrication. The Dana 35 and 44(with an aluminum center section) are both found in ZJ's. With less than 33's and a limited slip or open dif you can
go 300,000 miles no problem. The lube needs to be replaced every 30g or so, I use synthetic in mine (limited slips need extra friction lube, with syn
or Dino oil). In a street/non towing application there is zero wear on the bearings. Change the fluid and you will never have to think about it
again (if you specialist shimmed everything right)
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
And you ask why a heart wobble on a 1943 GPW? but no steering wobble
[Edited on 5-27-2007 by rts551] |
Nice flatty, I have a 41 Ford GPW that needs some work, It has also been upgraded with with modern 4 banger out of a 47'.
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Geronimo
These people are talking about wobble at speed. While a bump can cause the wobble to start... and continue due to poor suspension or tires.. this is
not true bump steer is it? I have found that what really happens is an oscillation . Most of the time it happens at lower speeds (30 mph) and can
only be stopped by a good steering stabilizer and/or repairing parts that allow looseness in the front end allowing the oscillation to start to begin
with. This can happen regardless of the lift. Most of my experience has been with older CJ's and Ford 4x4's.
Comment?
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
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The Dana's are not problem.. Dana 44 posi (3.73) in the rear of the 47' pushed by 327ci 350 hp, th350 trans. never a problem with the rear.
Geronimo
Always had flat fendered jeeps.. the 47 is a hotrod I need to sell . I also have a 52 cj3a with a 225 v6 that is much more practical (and has
sentimental value since I have owned it for 35 years).
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Baja_Girl
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Location: Pasadena, CA
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bird, you there?
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bajabird
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Posts: 205
Registered: 12-22-2004
Location: LA & BCS
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Geronimo,
Yes, the JIK did come with a bent and adjustable track bar.
I am not currently experiencing any wobbles; just the once bitten.... damn it's something nasty. (the wobble). On the wobble issue: I did every
bit of research I could. Agree, it is not just for jeeps. It has to be caused by the geometric change that happens from varied lift kits and the
uncorrected changes to the factory engineered system.
I would love to get some lift and suspension for my US based 2003 land cruiser. Theres nothing available for it and it is a piece of #@#( on the
offroad, and worse when it comes to power. Oh well, thats another topic.
I love my grand cherokee, it has power to pull the big boat, off road excellence (accept for the currently rattling doors) 4wd. Great vehicle. I
wonder what else I can to to make it better? JKS good stuff, and the terra lift were the main add ons. KN filter, throttle body spacer, race radio,
boat radio, cooler usually full of coronas, jeeps are just baja nice.
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Geronimo
These people are talking about wobble at speed. While a bump can cause the wobble to start... and continue due to poor suspension or tires.. this is
not true bump steer is it? I have found that what really happens is an oscillation . Most of the time it happens at lower speeds (30 mph) and can
only be stopped by a good steering stabilizer and/or repairing parts that allow looseness in the front end allowing the oscillation to start to begin
with. This can happen regardless of the lift. Most of my experience has been with older CJ's and Ford 4x4's.
Comment? |
He was talking about feeling it come on while in articulation at unknown speed, and it not actually happening. That is where the Bump theory came
from. Once at 75mph on the 202 near the 101 I hit an expansion joint and started the DW. A friend was behind and said he thought my rear tires were
going to come off the ground. I was so used to it that I simplely headed into the dirt median and back onto the freeway, he about soiled himself.
I have chased it several times with my XJ, once it took 7.5 hours to do the 4.5 hour trip from San Felipe to Salome. I agree DW is very common on
stock vehicles. I have seen it on several makes of solid axle trucks (Ford, Toy, Chevy, Jeep) and on TTB and I beam Fords. I have seen one A arm
chevy truck do it but the ball joint broke in mid DW, an easy diagnoses.
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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