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danaeb
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Posts: 991
Registered: 11-13-2006
Location: San Diego; El Centenario
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Mood: groovy
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Getting back to the original point of this thread - civilized discourse on immigration - maybe the ancient Roman's have something to teach us:
"There's a widespread view that the Roman Empire was swept away mainly by a relentless tide of hostile outsiders; we've all heard ugly references to
the "barbarian hordes" in today's immigration debates. But the truth is that Rome was the world's most successful multiethnic state until our own —
and history's longest lasting one, bar none.
So it's natural to wonder if the Romans might have anything to teach Americans. I'd argue that they do. One lesson is that the notion of "taking
control of the borders" is overrated; borders were pliable then, and are even harder to define (or police) now. A second lesson is the importance of
nurturing a national culture. It was the source of Rome's power, just as it is the source of ours. "
cont'd:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-murphy16jun16,0,70...
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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I wonder how Rome would have conducted themselves with a US style constitution and an ACLU. "Togas for everybody."
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gibson
Banned
Posts: 250
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ilk
whenever I meet ilk the likes of Dennis, MrB south of the border I just cringe. it's embarrasing. period
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Lee
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Name calling/personal attacks, again, Bill? Turtle get's to speak her mind too!
| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Remember those T-Shirts that said "I'm With Stupid" ?
Turtle's says "I AM Stupid".
Her analogy of Gringos in Baja with ILLEGAL Immigrants in the U.S. lacks any intellectual thought at all.
The U.S. Citizens going South bring with them Positive Financial results.
Besides, I am a LEGAL resident. |
So, as usual, Bill feels compelled to take pot shots at latortugaguera.
In his opinion, if she were to wear a t-shirt, it should read ''I AM STUPID."
Additionally, he believes her ''analogy'' lacks ''intellectual" thought. Well, I guess I needed Bill to point that out.
There was a thread earlier today on the right to expression here, and opinions. I'm guessing, but am not sure, that Bill believes that that attitude
applies to everyone here except latortugaguera.
Bill? Don't you really just have some ''baggage'' with latortugaguera from the Off Topic forum? Why don't you consider taking future attacks and
name calling there?
As far as US Citizens taking ''positive'' financial results South, I'm not sure where you're referring to? Loreto? The new marina in SJC? TJ?
Who get's the positive results? Gringoes? Are you speaking for the Mexicans?
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MrBillM
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Geez
Now I know how a "Special-Ed" Teacher feels.
ANYONE, especially Lee, is free to show ANY Mexican Economic Numbers they wish that will refute my contention that Foreign visitors and residents
bring a net economic plus to Mexico. PERIOD. Where the money goes, who benefits and who loses is not the question. If there is a responsibility
that the economic benefit is not fairly distributed, that is the fault of the Mexican Government.
Societal gains or losses are a separate question.
In the case of Tortuga's viewpoints, IF ANYONE here has EVER found ANY wisdom shown in her posts, please REPRINT that wisdom for our education.
As far as anyone not wanting to meet me in Baja, Who Cares ? I don't go there to meet other Gringos. We are mutually appreciative of not having met.
ADDENDUM
Having just noticed daneab's post regarding the ROMANS, I have to say that I doubt there is anything useful to be learned from their treatment of
"other" peoples.
I am second to no one in my admiration of the technological achievements of the ancient Romans. However, that great society was also built upon
conquest and enslavement to a degree never known before or after the long reign of their empire. They can, in no way, be looked upon as a shining
example of multi-ethnic harmony.
[Edited on 7-27-2007 by MrBillM]
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latortugaguera
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A Way Out of the Immigration Mess. Open the border.
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MrBillM
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SEE ?
This is WISDOM worth debate ?
I rest my case.
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latortugaguera
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I refuse to responde to your negativity.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latortugaguera
A Way Out of the Immigration Mess. Open the border. |
I guess you've already done that since I recall you saying you live in Baja with nothing more than an Ensenada [ your word ] drivers license.
Illegals are illegals and get like respect from me regardless of where they are.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latortugaguera
A Way Out of the Immigration Mess. Open the border. |
So you do not misunderstands...an open border should be everyone's goal and I have stated that before.
Excuse me , but dealing with people without a concept of the issues is very funny sorta like a 6 years old(age) jokes.
If you don't like people judging you harsh...consider changing you signature. Adults do not find it necessary to declare their closed mind attitude.
Seems like someone beat the crap out of you politically and you could not defend yourself.
I am sure I will regret this latter...cannot help myself.
Maybe I am short on the adult issue too...
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gibson
whenever I meet ilk the likes of Dennis, MrB south of the border I just cringe. it's embarrasing. period |
Are you disfigured or simply lack basic social skills?
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bajamigo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1218
Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
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Mood: hubimos llegado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latortugaguera
A Way Out of the Immigration Mess. Open the border. |
Gee, somebody proposes a fresh idea and gets dumped on. It's an idea worth discussion, as our friends in the European Union have found out. Nobody's
going to convince anyone that their position is wrong by personal attack. LaT, thanks for bringing it up.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by gibson
whenever I meet ilk the likes of Dennis, MrB south of the border I just cringe. it's embarrasing. period |
Are you disfigured or simply lack basic social skills? |
I also want state...I may disagree with your view, or the way you write about the issue that concern you. I would still meet you on a social level,
because almost every soul is good when not faced with issues and concepts that are as complicated as most we discuss here. No one should leave any
discussion with hurt or anger in their hearts...if you cannot maybe you should consider not participating.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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Too often, form gets in the way of substance. However, I try not to be the Decorum Police here,
Everyone's opinion if valid. As Dennis points out (and I paraphrase), "our opinions are formed by our dissimilar experiences and background." This
explains a lot and requires the willingness to understand. We can let go some of our hostility though, by continually reading, putting oneself in
another's shoes, learning, keeping an open mind, practicing random (and not-so-random) acts of kindness and endeavoring to become a more highly
evolved human being. Levity really helps too. Don't lose your sense of humor.
Eli, You are right, Welcome Center eerily connotes some kind of holding pen for a mass execution. Unfortunately, we have witnessed that reality
all too often in hatred between culltures, or in despotic government leaders. I do think the author of the WSJ article hastily named it with
benevolent intentions and he later realized its faults. An interesting safeguard was to suggest that it be located inside Mexico rather than in the
United States.
I liked the idea of (sorry, don't remember who the poster was) the right for us to be able to work legally in Mexico. I do understand though, Mexico
protecting jobs for its citizens. This is one thing that retains at least some of them at home.
Two very interesting quotations appeared in Mel Gibson's film, Apocalypto:
"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."--W. Durant
"Fear is a sickness. Fear will crawl into the soul of anyone who engages in it."
--One of the tribal leaders
These quotes reflect wisdom of the ages. They are lessons not learned and are not unique to our lifetime, but we are in those times now.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajamigo
| Quote: | Originally posted by latortugaguera
A Way Out of the Immigration Mess. Open the border. |
Gee, somebody proposes a fresh idea and gets dumped on. It's an idea worth discussion, as our friends in the European Union
have found out. Nobody's going to convince anyone that their position is wrong by personal attack. LaT, thanks for bringing it up.
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Do you believe the Mexican is ready to hand over their government for their people That is
the only way, MAYBE people of the USA would agree...at least at this time. That is not addressing the real issues like indoctrinating the Mexican
military into the US military so Borders could be protected.
Oooooh...I get it, you think there should be no borders...
Not in your life time amigo....but it is a noble idea....
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Working the room
| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by gibson
whenever I meet ilk the likes of Dennis, MrB south of the border I just cringe. it's embarrasing. period |
Are you disfigured or simply lack basic social skills? |
I also want state...I may disagree with your view, or the way you write about the issue that concern you. I would still meet you on a social level,
because almost every soul is good when not faced with issues and concepts that are as complicated as most we discuss here. No one should leave any
discussion with hurt or anger in their hearts...if you cannot maybe you should consider not participating. |
Guess I'll have to refine the humor a bit. 
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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Wow....what a fascinating thread.....are those bacon wrapped hot dogs, which admittedly I have never tried or even seen, better than a Nathan's Famous
or a Thuman's?
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by gibson
whenever I meet ilk the likes of Dennis, MrB south of the border I just cringe. it's embarrasing. period |
Are you disfigured or simply lack basic social skills? |
I also want state...I may disagree with your view, or the way you write about the issue that concern you. I would still meet you on a social level,
because almost every soul is good when not faced with issues and concepts that are as complicated as most we discuss here. No one should leave any
discussion with hurt or anger in their hearts...if you cannot maybe you should consider not participating. |
Guess I'll have to refine the humor a bit. |
Sorry Dave...I should have deleted your post...my post was not about your post...sorry
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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oldlady...........
Don't know the answer to that one but, the Bacon Wrapped Dog is one of the class acts of the area. I think these delicacies should be free of
comparison. They should just be enjoyed.
By the way...........they're almost exclusively an outside treat, sold at rolling restaurants about town. If you look for one, you'll find it.
Bon Apetíte.
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oldlady
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Posts: 1714
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Dennis, clever retort....I shall seek...and, if my gastronomic resume is worth respect, let you know.
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