BajaNomad
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2    4  ..  6
Author: Subject: From Choral Pepper: The Lost Diaz Grave
Ken Cooke
Select Nomad
*******


Avatar


Posts: 8187
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: I.E. '951'
Member Is Offline

Mood: Got Baja?

[*] posted on 9-12-2010 at 02:49 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
But, what else does one do in the desert but look for a 'pile of rocks'?


based on this forum, it appears that most frequent thing done in desert is drugs (alcohol) :lol:


You should take your Toyota on the Pole Line Road 4wd road sometime w/my group. It is plenty of fun.:bounce:





Follow Baja Pole Line Group on FACEBOOK
View user's profile
BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
*******




Posts: 9850
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 9-12-2010 at 03:08 PM


very interesting stuff .... does make the adrenaline flow a little faster thinking that one might find the grave and make history !!!

in general - where did the native Indians make their graves ? did they not bury thier dead with artifacts ? I have asked several amigos and no one seems to know anything .....

the locals here find arrowheads all over the place - due to the fishing, I guess this was quite a populated location. not only that but there is ONE, and only one, mountain about 40 minutes away from us that has sharks teeth and embedded shells all over it !! just incredible cause it is quite far form any water.




Blanca and Les
Come visit us

http://www.labocanahotel.com
View user's profile Visit user's homepage
DesertGhost
Newbie





Posts: 6
Registered: 11-9-2010
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 11-9-2010 at 06:34 AM


Hello David K and the entire Baja Gang,

It has been some time since I have been on this forum. After retiring from LAPD I went to Iraq for 3 1/2 years to train the Iraqi Police. I returned from Iraq last year and contacted Jaime, my old exploring partner, in hopes of continuing the search in Baja for the Diaz Grave. Both of us want to get back down to Baja and finish the search.

During our last couple trips in 2003-2005 we really believed that we were getting close. I have posted a couple pictures. One is of a trail marker that was commonly used by the Spanish. The other is of a "Face" that we located in what was prob an old Indian camp hidden away on a remote ridge and adjoining small valley. We also found a spring and large amount of pottery shards in the same area. For best viewing results copy the pictures into a photo viewer and zoom in on the mentuoned areas.

Even though we are both excited and anxious about returning to Baja, we are delaying the continuation of our adventure till the 2011-2012 winter season. I look forward to discussing the Diaz grave with all and have no problem with anyone going with us when we do make the trips.

Best Wishes,
Tad

[Edited on 11-9-2010 by DesertGhost]
View user's profile
DesertGhost
Newbie





Posts: 6
Registered: 11-9-2010
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 11-9-2010 at 06:44 AM


OK the pictures did not post...any advise?

T
View user's profile
BajaRat
Super Nomad
****




Posts: 1167
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate

[*] posted on 11-9-2010 at 02:48 PM


Thanks David, very cool.
View user's profile
David K
Honored Nomad
*********


Avatar


Posts: 51214
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline

Mood: Have Baja Fever

[*] posted on 11-9-2010 at 09:29 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by DesertGhost
Hello David K and the entire Baja Gang,

It has been some time since I have been on this forum. After retiring from LAPD I went to Iraq for 3 1/2 years to train the Iraqi Police. I returned from Iraq last year and contacted Jaime, my old exploring partner, in hopes of continuing the search in Baja for the Diaz Grave. Both of us want to get back down to Baja and finish the search.

During our last couple trips in 2003-2005 we really believed that we were getting close. I have posted a couple pictures. One is of a trail marker that was commonly used by the Spanish. The other is of a "Face" that we located in what was prob an old Indian camp hidden away on a remote ridge and adjoining small valley. We also found a spring and large amount of pottery shards in the same area. For best viewing results copy the pictures into a photo viewer and zoom in on the mentuoned areas.

Even though we are both excited and anxious about returning to Baja, we are delaying the continuation of our adventure till the 2011-2012 winter season. I look forward to discussing the Diaz grave with all and have no problem with anyone going with us when we do make the trips.

Best Wishes,
Tad

[Edited on 11-9-2010 by DesertGhost]


Here are the two photos from Tad:







"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

A NEW Baja Missions History book in 2016: http://oldmissions.com

My (over 40) Baja Bound Travel Adventure articles: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/

My Baja web site, to help you plan your adventure: http://VivaBaja.com

View user's profile Visit user's homepage
David K
Honored Nomad
*********


Avatar


Posts: 51214
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline

Mood: Have Baja Fever

[*] posted on 7-15-2011 at 08:24 AM


8 months since I posted Tad's photos and after our Lost Santa Isabel Mission Expedition (April, 2011), there is renewed interests in another Baja expedition...

Best done in the winter, it would be good to do some planning ahead.

As mentioned before, I do have the 1967 letter and directions to the 'rockpile' (Diaz Grave?) from Walter Henderson to Choral Pepper, from his 1930's discovery. The area we need to look at is not far from Hwy. 3... and I think I have narrowed it down to 3 arroyoys that meet the description... after scouting the area on Google Earth.

A trip up Arroyo Grande (from the Pole Line Road/ La Ventana) may pinpoint the one arroyo where Henderson found the 'rockpile', because of what he described seeing when they reached Arroyo Grande.

It is a large, pile of rocks we seek... it could be the lost grave of the first European explorer to set foot in California (1541)... it could be something else. It is a quest to find something that was seen 80 years ago and has lead to many stories and questions.

Viva Baja Mysteries!




"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

A NEW Baja Missions History book in 2016: http://oldmissions.com

My (over 40) Baja Bound Travel Adventure articles: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/

My Baja web site, to help you plan your adventure: http://VivaBaja.com

View user's profile Visit user's homepage
DesertGhost
Newbie





Posts: 6
Registered: 11-9-2010
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-15-2011 at 03:01 PM


Well Hi David,

So how weird is this, I dug out all my research material on the Diaz search just last week and started reviewing the maps and notes I had from my previous trips. Then out of nowhere I get notification of your post to the old thread today...we must be thinking along the same lines. lol

I completely agree with you about doing the search during the winter months. There is only so far a ATV or 4x4 will get you in the search area where the most interesting discoveries are in the most rugged and hard to get to locations. It is my plan to return to the search area around mid-January and spend about a month camping in the area I am interested in.

I am including a jpg from Goggle Earth to give you a rough idea of the area I am speaking of. And as for explanation for some of the pushpins on the map I am providing you these notes:

Old Spanish Mine
31°35'16.99"N 115° 7'16.90"W
I have a report on hand from a geologist that visited this location in the 1950's. In the report he sampled vein material at the bottom of the main shaft and found it had over 1/2ounce of gold per ton. He went on to explain that the mine was very old at the time of his visit but had been worked off and on until the 1930's. My notes:
NNW of this now active mine (2001) and at about 2-4 miles there are more portals and works also dating back to the 1930's to 1970's or 80's as evident by the trash still on site. Will be doing Placer sampling in the future in areas away from the active mine and outside their concessions.

"The Narrows"
One of the first places I entered the search area back in the 90's. Had to get out and dig a path through some of the canyon. I have a couple pics of this area I will also send.

Finger Rock #1
Right after getting up through the Narrows I came across "Finger" Rock #1. It stands about 20 feet tall and is quite impressive. There is a series of strong thick quartz veins near here running NNW.

Finger Rock #2
In close proximity and North and West of Finger Rock #2, on the ridge lines, small canyons and trails just below the ridge line we found extensive evidence of past human habitation. It was surprising to us the thickness of the plant life in some of them. We also found a large amount of old pottery shards along many of the trails or just below them.

North and NNE of Finger Rock #2, at a fair distance(LOL), is the area where we located the rock "Face" and the Spanish Trail Marker Rock. Those pictures I sent before and I see you have them posted now.

So there you have a bit more information and stuff to look over. In the above post I see you mention the original letter from Henderson that Choral had. As you might recall about 10 years ago we were at her place for dinner one night. I remember her saying something about not being able to find the letter after searching for years, she promised to contact me if she did find it, but sadly she left us before she had a chance to locate it.

David it is a very nice thing for you to offer me the letter...it kinda continues on her thoughts and ideals of how she would of liked the project to continue. Your a good man.

One last thing for this email. During one of my visits to Choral she mentioned that she had been contacted by a couple guys/explorers who had returned from Baja with a small Spanish bell, supposedly located in the Laguna Hansen area. Did you find any info about that in her papers?

Let me know if you have any questions.
View user's profile
David K
Honored Nomad
*********


Avatar


Posts: 51214
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline

Mood: Have Baja Fever

[*] posted on 7-15-2011 at 05:35 PM


Hi Tad,

I did not see any letter about a bell... but I have to admit, I have a very big box of her Baja stuff... It is mostly photos from the Erle Stanley Gardner expeditions... which I made a web site to show everyone: http://choralpepper.com

You have other interests in the Sierra Las Pintas besides the Henderson 'rockpile'? A little gold would sure be nice to cover expenses of our expeditions!:light::cool:

I did email you the original letter and directions from Henderson (and to Bruce Barber as well) a few years ago... Afterall, you both spent a lot of time and energy searching for the Diaz Grave based on Choral Pepper's articles in Desert Magazine and in her Baja book! I think it would be what Choral would want, to share them with you... so I did.

Sadly for Bruce, he never got to talk with Choral, before she died... I would have facilitated the connection and she would have loved to share what she knew. If you don't have that email, let me know...

In her writings, she left out some details of what Walter's letter contained and that caused Bruce to do his extensive search from the wrong starting point (La Ventana), when it was many miles to the southwest. Bruce is now too far along in years to continue, I think... I am not sure if you also were looking in the same area... ?

January is a possibilty for us to go into the area... Mi esposa has vacation time already set aside... Now, if I can interst her into allowing for maybe two days of searching?

1) Pinpoint which of the arroyo canyons that the 'rockpile' was located in by driving in Arroyo Grande, using clues provided by Henderson.

2) Hike (or drive/ ATV) up that arroyo from Arroyo Grande or from the opposite side near Hwy. 3.

3) Photograph the rockpile. Mystery Solved!:bounce:




"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

A NEW Baja Missions History book in 2016: http://oldmissions.com

My (over 40) Baja Bound Travel Adventure articles: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/

My Baja web site, to help you plan your adventure: http://VivaBaja.com

View user's profile Visit user's homepage
DesertGhost
Newbie





Posts: 6
Registered: 11-9-2010
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-15-2011 at 06:16 PM


I like the choralpepper website , it is very nice thanks for the link.

I just searched all my old emails and I can not find the one with the letter. I dont remember getting it but I am getting old also so maybe I am just having a "senior" moment. There is also a chance I lost the email when I lost a computer during my travels a couple years ago. If you can find it David would you mind sending it to me again?

Tad
View user's profile
David K
Honored Nomad
*********


Avatar


Posts: 51214
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline

Mood: Have Baja Fever

[*] posted on 7-16-2011 at 03:29 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by DesertGhost
I like the choralpepper website , it is very nice thanks for the link.

I just searched all my old emails and I can not find the one with the letter. I dont remember getting it but I am getting old also so maybe I am just having a "senior" moment. There is also a chance I lost the email when I lost a computer during my travels a couple years ago. If you can find it David would you mind sending it to me again?

Tad


DONE!

I sent it out with some old maps of the area that contains points mentioned in the letter.

One of the greatest moments I had in Baja was finding the site of Choral Pepper's 'Lost Mission' (Santa Maria Magdalena) on New Year's, 2009... 42 years after she and Bruce Barron (with the Erle Stanley Gradner Expedition) first discovered it: http://vivabaja.com/109

Choral, Bruce, Ricardo Castillo, JW Black, all on the expedition could not recall the location (I spoke with them all)... Thanks to a Nomad who spotted what looked like walls in the general area, south of L.A. Bay... we went to see if it was them... IT WAS!




"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

A NEW Baja Missions History book in 2016: http://oldmissions.com

My (over 40) Baja Bound Travel Adventure articles: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/

My Baja web site, to help you plan your adventure: http://VivaBaja.com

View user's profile Visit user's homepage
DesertGhost
Newbie





Posts: 6
Registered: 11-9-2010
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-16-2011 at 05:04 PM


Thanks David, Just got the email with the letters and maps attached. Give me some time to look them over and compare with my field notes.

Also, belated congrats on locating Santa Maria Magdalena.

Tad
View user's profile
TMW
Select Nomad
*******




Posts: 8736
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-17-2011 at 10:30 AM


In the second picture from John at Dezert Magazine the mark for Diaz 1 would be fairly easy to get to since it is very close to the CODE race course which is just over a mile to the SSW. Diaz 2 is a little more complicated as Google Earth is not so clear but there is a couple of washes to the NNW that connect to the CODE race course and they connect to what appears to be roads that come within a half mile of the site. The roads are probably from the mining operation.
View user's profile
dtbushpilot
Elite Nomad
******




Posts: 3208
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
Member Is Offline

Mood: Tranquilo

[*] posted on 7-17-2011 at 11:34 AM


Count me in, I've already spent most of the money that I got for my share of the Padre gold from our lost mission adventure....wait a minute, was I supposed to tell that part of the story or not? I forget now what our agreement was that we made around the camp fire:?::?:....it sucks getting old......dt



"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
View user's profile
TMW
Select Nomad
*******




Posts: 8736
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-17-2011 at 12:41 PM


DT you should do the Pole Line Rd run with Motoged and Ken and the group. It is a fun ride. If you guys go I'll go and be glad to haul your extra stuff in my Toyota.
View user's profile
David K
Honored Nomad
*********


Avatar


Posts: 51214
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline

Mood: Have Baja Fever

[*] posted on 7-17-2011 at 05:09 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by TW
In the second picture from John at Dezert Magazine the mark for Diaz 1 would be fairly easy to get to since it is very close to the CODE race course which is just over a mile to the SSW. Diaz 2 is a little more complicated as Google Earth is not so clear but there is a couple of washes to the NNW that connect to the CODE race course and they connect to what appears to be roads that come within a half mile of the site. The roads are probably from the mining operation.


John (dezert-mag) did not have the information from Henderson when he made those points... He is many miles from the correct area.




"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

A NEW Baja Missions History book in 2016: http://oldmissions.com

My (over 40) Baja Bound Travel Adventure articles: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/

My Baja web site, to help you plan your adventure: http://VivaBaja.com

View user's profile Visit user's homepage
dtbushpilot
Elite Nomad
******




Posts: 3208
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
Member Is Offline

Mood: Tranquilo

[*] posted on 7-18-2011 at 12:30 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by TW
DT you should do the Pole Line Rd run with Motoged and Ken and the group. It is a fun ride. If you guys go I'll go and be glad to haul your extra stuff in my Toyota.



Well, that's just great, sounds like motoged is planning a baja trip and didn't tell me about it.....I can't believe he would let a broken leg and my pointing and laughing at him get in the way of us having another Baja adventure together.....when and where is this taking place, I want to go:bounce::bounce::bounce:.....dt




"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
View user's profile
DesertGhost
Newbie





Posts: 6
Registered: 11-9-2010
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-18-2011 at 04:57 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by TW
In the second picture from John at Dezert Magazine the mark for Diaz 1 would be fairly easy to get to since it is very close to the CODE race course which is just over a mile to the SSW. Diaz 2 is a little more complicated as Google Earth is not so clear but there is a couple of washes to the NNW that connect to the CODE race course and they connect to what appears to be roads that come within a half mile of the site. The roads are probably from the mining operation.


Hi TW, you are right the Diaz 1 and 2 sites are easy to get to. I have been in both areas and you are right there are many small tracks/roads that close to the mining operation. Concerning the old CODE course, I tend to stay away from the course as it is usually is much rougher to travel over (either by design or past uses).

I am still in the mindset that the grave is actually further south west. Now that I have the additional info that David provided I am even more convinced of the general location is SSW of Diaz 2.
View user's profile
TMW
Select Nomad
*******




Posts: 8736
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-18-2011 at 12:39 PM


From Hendersons description of going west from El Chinero to the base of the hills puts him due north of the Borrego race course crossing about 5 miles from Hwy 3. That area is easy to access. From the north side in Arroyo Grande I've been down it in my full size truck past the dam by about 3 miles until I was blocked by a rock field. Looking for a side wash with huge verticle walls souldn't be too difficult. DK had marked one as AC and from Google Earth it appears to be the best bet as far as I can tell and it is SW of Diaz 2. I wonder how far could someone walk in half a day in that terrain which is what Henderson did before he found the rock pile. I must admit I'm always leary of descriptions based on someones memory.
View user's profile
David K
Honored Nomad
*********


Avatar


Posts: 51214
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline

Mood: Have Baja Fever

[*] posted on 7-19-2011 at 02:04 PM


Henderson (and friend) walked 2 days (limited water)...

From the parked Model A (north of today's Borrego Wash checkpoint), they walked over the saddle (divide) in the hills using the most logical route to get to the other side (Arroyo Grande)... They found the 'rockpile' as they descended towards Arroyo Grande from the divide... about 1/4 to1/3 down.

There are 3-4 westward flowing arroyos that drop into Arroyo Grande from the Sierra Las Pintas divide... Henderson gives details as to what Arroyo Grande looks like where the (correct) arroyo joins it, as well as details of the terrain at the site... (I am not posting until one of us Nomads can give it another try this winter).

They spent the night in Arroyo Grande then returned to their Model A. They wanted to get further northwest to the Tinajas mountains or La Palmita oasis... and realized they hiked from a point too far south, after the walk.

Choral Pepper (perhaps intentionally) left out some details or changed some from this letter to write her chapter... If any of you get Bruce Barber's book ('... Of Sand and Sea'), you know he would have could found the rockpile with the intense energy and science he put into the search... but only IF he had the correct starting point!

Tad (DesertGhost) is the other explorer who has made several trips into the Sierra Las Pintas seeking the 'rockpile'... When I discovered the original Henderson letter and directions in Choral Pepper's collection, I thought it only fair to send them to both men because of their passion and desire to share their adventures with us Baja history fans.

I too have a desire to find (or at least see) the 'rockpile', and it matters not if it is the 1541 grave of Melchior Diaz. Choral Pepper was dear, sweet lady whose love for Baja and the desert inspired so many of us to just get out there and enjoy what so many keep away from... the desert!




"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

A NEW Baja Missions History book in 2016: http://oldmissions.com

My (over 40) Baja Bound Travel Adventure articles: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/

My Baja web site, to help you plan your adventure: http://VivaBaja.com

View user's profile Visit user's homepage
 Pages:  1  2    4  ..  6

  Go To Top


For high speed satellite internet in Baja call +1.6197170810 - or click here to email sistemassatelitales@hotmail.com



Tijuana Walking Tours - on Meetup.com


 






All Content Copyright © 1997- Q87 International; All Rights Reserved.
Powered by XMB; XMB Forum Software © 2001-2014 The XMB Group 






"If it were lush and rich, one could understand the pull, but it is fierce and hostile and sullen. The stone mountains pile up to the sky and there is little fresh water. But we know we must go back if we live, and we don't know why." - Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez

 

"People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care." - Ivan R. Misner, Ph.D

 

"You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them or to them." - Malcolm Forbes

 

"Let others lead small lives, but not you. Let others argue over small things, but not you. Let others cry over small hurts, but not you. Let others leave their future in someone else's hands, but not you." - Jim Rohn







Thank you to Baja Bound Mexico Insurance Services for your long-term support of the BajaNomad.com Forums site.







Emergency Baja Contacts Include:

Desert Hawks; El Rosario-based ambulance transport; Emergency #: (616) 103-0262