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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8806
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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if you want it to break...
bring it to baja
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David K
Honored Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaddict
Do you stilll have your "old" shocks? Wanna let them go for some $ ?
Mine are blowin' mud....  |
Hi Chris,
No, I didn't keep them... get the 5100's I mentioned in this thread (model made for Tacomas)... Big difference for little dinero!
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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so, after searching and researching i've come back here for an unbiased answer.
last month Bia and i took the tundra down and managed to find some pretty ruff roads along the coast. we did the circuit from the south and out
through catavina. i had loaded the truck wrong with the second spare and the coolers loaded last .... needless to say we were bottoming out way too much. on the way out i rearranged the load but all the
liquids, ice, and most of the food was gone so the load wasn't the same. so the ? becomes....
will upgrading to the HD Bilsteins be sufficient to stop the pounding or are the bags really a better option?
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TMW
Select Nomad
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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In my opinion shocks are not the answer to bottoming out. Either add a leaf or go with the air bags. Add a leafs are cheaper but the air bags allow
you to adjust your load handling for a smoother hwy ride and to adjust for the off-road ride. I've always went with the add a leaf because I don't
mind a stiffer hwy ride and I'm cheap.
I don't mean to say shocks are not important, they are very important, but not for bottoming unless they are the type with a spring on them.
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Ken Cooke
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
so, after searching and researching i've come back here for an unbiased answer.
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Daystar Shock Absorber Bump Stops. Get the Black ones as they are set up for a more firm bumper for the shock absorbers. Adjustable shocks like the
MX-6 might do the trick. An Add-A-Leaf will give you a more firm ride - is this your daily driver?
For right around $40, I'd do the Daystar bump stops first. 
http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_poly_bumpstops.htm
[Edited on 5-13-2009 by Ken Cooke]
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woody with a view
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not a daily driver. it's the expiditionary machine. will these work on any shocks?
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
not a daily driver. it's the expiditionary machine. will these work on any shocks? |
If its not a daily driver, I'd do the Add A Leafs **AND** the Daystar Shock Bumpstops. These work with any shock I believe. I plan on getting the
black ones for my Rubicon since I tend to overload the Jeep when I do the expedition trips in Baja once a year.
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squintingringo
Newbie
Posts: 17
Registered: 3-12-2009
Location: San Quintin
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For what it is worth, I have been using the air bags (from Airlift) for the past five years. I first had them on my '04 Tacoma and drove thousands of
miles off-road in Baja with various sized loads.
In '06 I traded up to a 4-dr Tundra and one of the first things I did was install air bags. In both cases I bought the kits online for around $175
and installed them myself. It takes about an hour and requires a drill and a couple of wrenches.
They are great. I do a lot of highway driving as well, often with no load, and stiff springs were not an option I was willing to consider. The air
bags let me adjust the stiffness to the load and the terrain and maintain the ride I want. Off road trips often start out with a heavy load and end
up with much of it diminished. Water, ice, fuel, food, complaining passengers, all are left behind or consumed along the way. A couple seconds to
let some air out and the ride is right where I want it again. And a couple of quads in the back, or a heavy trailer on the hitch require a quick
squirt of air from my little 12v compressor.
I have had very good luck with the Airlifts. They seem pretty bulletproof. Just keep at least ten pounds of air in them and they last a long time.
I traded the Tacoma with 79,000 miles on it and the Tundra now has almost 90,000, and probably a third of the miles in both of them were off road.
Only other modifications were bigger tires (BFG Baja's of course) and "leveling kits" which lift the truck a couple of inches so I don't scrape where
all the factory trucks do. They keep all the hazards knocked down for me.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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In case it isn't noticed by newer Nomads, this thread is close to two years old... Let me say that my 2005 4 door Tacoma is still doing great with the
Ride Rite/ Firestone adjustable air springs ('air bags') and Bilstein 5100 rear shocks... The addition worked flawlessly and no more bottoming out
ever since... The bolts that were a concern to some here in 2007 are still there... and we did the road to Gonzaga a few months ago.
15 psi is normal... and I bump it to 30 psi with a camping load. Rides right... or is that Rides Rite!?
Nice to hear that the other brand of air bags worked well for you, too squintingringo. You saved a lot of money, too!
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Gadget
Senior Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
so, after searching and researching i've come back here for an unbiased answer.
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Daystar Shock Absorber Bump Stops. Get the Black ones as they are set up for a more firm bumper for the shock absorbers. Adjustable shocks like the
MX-6 might do the trick. An Add-A-Leaf will give you a more firm ride - is this your daily driver?
For right around $40, I'd do the Daystar bump stops first.
http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/W_poly_bumpstops.htm
[Edited on 5-13-2009 by Ken Cooke] |
YIKES
What on earth are these?
Now I'm no expert, but some of the stuff the after market comes up with is just plain scarry.
As I understand things, springs carry the load and shocks keep the springs from compressing and rebounding violently, slowing their movement for a
smooth ride. Without the shocks, the springs would still do the job they are engineered for, just not in a controlled or comfortable manner, and
would beat the crap out of you and the vehicle.
If a rig is loaded beyond the rated maximum of the spring, it will run into something, i.e. the frame rail. There is a bump stop solidly mounted
there to accept this collision, but the bump stop is not engineered to suffer constant abuse. As it has been explained to me, the rubber or urethane
bump will squish completely after just a few slams and will no longer prevent the collision of the spring and frame rail, hence the "bottom out"
condition. The first few times it happened, you didn't notice it. Once the bump was compositionally altered by the overload collision, it will no
longer do its job.
So with these forces taken into consideration, the idea that the bump can be controlled by the shock shaft and eye mount attachment points with a
urethane doughnut on it is rediculous. IMHO shock failure will be soon in the coming.
Davids fix is the only one of 2 as I see it.
Air bag overload "springs" to increase the carrying capacity of the spring and firmer shocks to slow comp and rebo.
Or an add-a-leaf, which will result in stiffer unloaded ride.
I have a pair of overload bags on my F-250 for when I have a big load in my dump trailer. 5 PSI = smooth ride around town and 100 PSI if I need it for
a load. Love em!
GSB has an engineered 11, yes that's eleven, leaf pre-runner pack by National controlled by 2 - 2.5" Fox reservoir shocks on each side and bumped by
2" hydraulic / gas charged bump stops, which have a 1.25" solid steel shaft in them. The 5900lb pig can land on 1 rear tire and suck it all up. The
springs with travel 16" vertically and go from full droop to completely inverted (straightened out and bent the other direction) at full bump....and
it rides like a Caddy. I am continually amazed with I see the dust on the bump stop shaft has been cleaned off all the way to its 1/2" exposed
stopping point. The forces to bend those springs that way is hard to imagine.
To conclude, I really don't know what my point is, but I used alot of words, huh?
Just do it!
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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landyacht318
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Registered: 7-28-2007
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Another possibility is to add Timbrens instead of airbags. They are oversized bump stops, and a lot of truck camper guys swear by them. A benefit is
that they can never leak, downside they can't be adjusted, but supposedly they make absolutely no difference in ride quality unloaded.
I have the ride rites and love the adjustability.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Hi Gadget!
How is GSB? All fixed?
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Location: San Diego County
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No kidding Glen, I can picture bent shocks and other bad stuff! Control the impact by slowing it down, don't build a 'wall' and stop it at full
potential!
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8921
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gadget
YIKES
What on earth are these?
Now I'm no expert, but some of the stuff the after market comes up with is just plain scarry. |
With a Jeep, your front suspension is held in place by the shocks and a simple coil retainer clip. So, your shock is engineered to do more than it
was originally designed for.
The rear shocks on my Jeep compress more than they should thanks to the absence of extended bump stops at the rear axle. I plan on sliding a pair of
these on the rear shocks and giving it a go. I'll let you know how these work out for me after I do another trip from Puertecitos to Laguna Chapala.
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joel
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Posts: 361
Registered: 2-2-2007
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I have a Suburban with a 6 inch lift that usually lives in Baja. I've been getting a lot of sway and bottoming out when heavily loaded so decided to
go with air bags (shocks, IMO won't do anything for either sway or bottoming out).
I added Firestone F9000 Sleeve Bags. They were great on the paved roads. Eliminated the sway altogether. Really nice ride.
I aired down to about 50 off-road and they popped after 3 hours of medium-hard driving.
I'm interested in those that who say they are using air bags off road, what PSI are you running at and have you popped any?
[Edited on 5-15-2009 by joel]
[Edited on 5-15-2009 by joel]
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Joel, see my post above...
The Ride Rite (Firestone) air springs were installed nearly 2 years ago at Off Road Warehouse, in Escondido... and I have done plenty of off roading
since. Included is the 80+ miles north and south of Gonzaga Bay that so many have blown shocks on... or tore their tires to shreads on. Perhaps the
Ride Rite is a heavier rubber... I would think that an off road prep shop would not sell a product that fails.
Did your 'sleeve bags' get replaced under warantee and have you gone off highway since?
Air pressure in the bags has always been between 15-30 psi. The range is 10-100, I recall.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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i've decided on the following:
http://4wheelonline.com/Products.aspx?CategoryId=28129&P...
joel- it looks like your gas tank holding strap is "shiny" and maybe the rubbing against the bag led to the failure. why did you air DOWN while going
off road? your picture made my decision to go with the column style instead of the double bag style.
price = $197 + free shipping. my mekanic is gonna install for two hours labor. i told him i want a "tee" fitting to allow me to air UP both sides
simultaneously with my high volume portable compressor. his only concern (not the bolts) was the brackets. he has installed these on 2 ford expedition
limo's and said the brackets were the weak link, not the bolts. we shall see.
i'm don't plan on having 10-15 drunk's going to prom in the back, so i think i'm gonna be alright........
edit: my mech rec'd 65 pounds off road. we'll see.
[Edited on 5-15-2009 by woody in ob]
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joel
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Posts: 361
Registered: 2-2-2007
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The photos above were taken during the installation process.
I can see where they popped and it was facing the outside of the car -- there isn't anything they could have come in contact with. The bags on the car
don't have any steel mesh in the rubber, so they couldn't take the pounding.
I would consider taking them back under warranty, but the vehicle is down in Baja and hopefully will stay down there for quite some time, so I'll have
to figure out a new bag to put on it and fly down with it next time I head down.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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just had my air bags installed. $197 + free shipping for the kit. $212 for labor. not too bad. the bags are at 60psi but i'm gonna drop it to 40 and
see how they ride.
first impressions = the back end is a little (1 1/2"?) higher. the ride is just a little stiffer. i asked my mech to run a tee to one filler valve but
he didn't . i have two fill valves  but it isn't really that big a deal, i guess. now to figure out the sweet PSI spot.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
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Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
just had my air bags installed. $197 + free shipping for the kit. $212 for labor. not too bad. the bags are at 60psi but i'm gonna drop it to 40 and
see how they ride.
first impressions = the back end is a little (1 1/2"?) higher. the ride is just a little stiffer. i asked my mech to run a tee to one filler valve but
he didn't. i have two fill valves but it isn't really that big a deal, i guess. now to figure out the sweet PSI spot. |
Woody, ORW also did mine with two fill valves (on each side of the license plate)... One made more sense to me, as well... However, as you will soon
discover... It takes very very little air and changes in a second or two.
60 psi is the most I had, with a heavy load... was too stiff when unloaded... Prefer 20-30 psi....
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