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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
CBP Press officers
Send copies of the above post to:
Vincent Bond, Press Officer
Jurisdiction: Southern California/Mexico Ports of Entry
610 Ash Street
Suite 1200
San Diego, CA 92101Phone: (619) 744-5224
Fax: (619) 645-6641
Email: vincent.e.bond@customs.treas.gov
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
I know Vince Bond ... I made a copy of this thread and will drop it off to him today...
[Edited on 11-20-2007 by David K]
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Hello. As I'm fresh on this topic- I'll chime in.
I'm very sorry to hear about this carjacking and what the family went through. Every time someone like me posts just how dangerous the toll road and
border area is these days someone disrespectes the messenger. I'm tired of hearing "they only bother and kidnap businessmen- so just keep a low
profile." That's bull. They rob/kidnap anyone these days that has more than they do- which is EVERY American, the day toursits are like a free gift
to them.
The method used in this carjacking of the family is EXACTLY what we in Rosarito have been warning Americans about for months. I'm peeed off that these
have been happening REGULARLY at night on the toll road for the last six months and NO USA AUTHORITIES OR MEDIA WILL WARN AMERICANS ABOUT IT! The MO:
They pull you over at night with flashing police lights, another car pulls in front of you to block your escape and then they rob you, carjack you or
worse. (At least these Americans didn't get shot like some others have). The bandits know that us law-abiding Americans will always pull over for the
police. This happens at night mostly- so don't travel at night. If it does happen, don't stop- just keep driving until you get to a grocery store or
other busy location and stop at the front door. The real police won't mind you doing this, but then again the real police arent out on the toll road
at night protecting Americans'these days. They are just trying to stay alive themselves.
There is a security consultant guy who posts regular safety and driving escape tactics for americans on www.gringogazettenorth.com
Were these police who did it? Probably not. There are three levels of uniformed "police" here and none of them communicatre or work together, in
fact they are fighting each other. They all have allies with different waring political parties (PRI/PAN) and the drug cartel. Even they don't know
who to trust any more. They don't even know each other's uniforms well enough to tell a real one from an impersonator. The only thing they agree on
are that Americans are fair game- they pull you over, terroize you, rob you, and then warn you NEVER to talk about it. Most of these incidents (and
especially the express kidnappings) go unreported. I think people try to report these incidents at the border like this family did- but what you hear
from the US Border Patrol is "you basically asked for it by going down there in the first place". They blame the victim and do nothing to help (the
"go to macdonalds for help" attitude has to stop!).
I tried calling the news stations in San Diego a few weeks ago when the shootings of the American toursit family (and kidnapping of two spaniards with
them) in Puerto Nuevo in broad daylight took place (there is a post on this site of mine somewhere about it). All three stattions told me that TJ and
Rosarito was "not their market" and they don't cover it. When I stated that 10,000 americans live here, watch their news and ARE their market- they
just said they would watch the wires for the story- which of course didn't happen because the Mexican government never releases the truth.
I don't know what the included insurance on the toll road covers, but there is some level of coverage that exists with a paid toll. Your USA
insurance covers most incidents within 70 miles of the border or so- but that;s for passenger vehicles only. I would guess that trailers and ATV's are
a different story. Whatever insurance there is- it will never repair the permanenet damange done to their family.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Thanks David
The part that I am most concerned about is:
"The customs and immigration folks were less than helpful and even less sympathetic to our situation. While they did let us walk into the US they
would not let us use their phone, bathroom nor have a drink of water. They directed us to the McDonald’s for assistance."
Maybe you could get Vince to be a regular on this board, or at least look at it once in a while.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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All the talk about boycotts from folks like the ones on Baja Nomad and letters to Vincent Bond, etc will amount to nothing. There is no political will
to do anything about this in Mexico - if we haven't figured that out by now, we never will.
HERE is the kind of thing that MIGHT, truly, have an effect:
http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36312
When race teams like the McMillins start talking about not racing in Mexico any longer, I imagine folks like Sal Fish might start to pay attention. If
the threat of the Baja races coming to a close or not attracting the high-end teams they do today doesn't do it, nothing will.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Who has the horsepower to contact the new Governor, the mayors, the police chiefs, tourism directors and police/military officials of TJ, Rosarito and
Ensenada, and BCN state/federal officials and make them aware of these incidents???? Maybe set up a meeting of concerned residents/travelers.
It seems that there is a lot of complaining but nobody is talking to those who can effect/affect change
Maybe FDT can have these officials on his radio show????
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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bajaguy, I U2U'd you
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
All the talk about boycotts from folks like the ones on Baja Nomad and letters to Vincent Bond, etc will amount to nothing. There is no political will
to do anything about this in Mexico - if we haven't figured that out by now, we never will.
HERE is the kind of thing that MIGHT, truly, have an effect:
http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36312
When race teams like the McMillins start talking about not racing in Mexico any longer, I imagine folks like Sal Fish might start to pay attention. If
the threat of the Baja races coming to a close or not attracting the high-end teams they do today doesn't do it, nothing will.
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Never underestimate the power of a grass-roots level boycott, Roberto. All it takes is victims and the friends of victims to get media coverage, to
talk to their travel agents, to post on boards with a combined readership of literally millions and pretty soon the numbers start dropping all over
Mexico.
As the saying goes, "bad news travels fast".
Even without anything resembling an organized boycott, Mexico experienced a drop in tourism in 2006. Many had already made the choice to spend dollars
elsewhere, as the cartel and police violence became more visible.
Tourism is/was the second largest industry in Mexico. Not the ancillary proceeds of a 4 day race.
The well-publicized boycott from ALL interested parties is the way to go.
[Edited on 11-20-2007 by Hook]
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Never underestimate the power of a grass-roots level boycott, Roberto. |
I agree, generally, with your point. However, here are two points of my own.
The chances of a true "grass-roots level" boycott happening are slim and none. Just look at the reactions on this board to these types of reports for
illustration.
Even if this happened, I really don't think the Mexican government gives a flip about this kind of tourism. The folks who fly to Cancun and go on the
cruises - maybe, but that's a whole different ball of wax. Add to that the fact that the Mexican government is up to their ears with the drug cartels
and the picture does not look good.
I hope, I'm wrong, frankly, because I'm pretty close to doing my own personal boycott - travelling alone in Baja or, worse yet, with my family is
looking less and less worthwhile.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Tourism is/was the second largest industry in Mexico. Not the ancillary proceeds of a 4 day race. |
The reason I believe that a boycott by high-end teams could make a huge difference is more related to the level of publicity this would get than the
impact of the loss of the revenue in Mexico. And I would like to have some numbers regarding the size of the revenue generated, directly and
indirectly by all the SCORE races in the course of a year compared to you and me, and all the folks on this board, not going to Baja any longer -
aside from the fact that that loss would be completely under the radar.
[Edited on 11-20-2007 by Roberto]
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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Just separate out the anti-boycott responses from people who have already invested in Baja or have businesses in Baja. They have a conflict of
interest. But they are the only ones who can apply any local pressure. We have no rights.....except to choose to spend or not.
I have begun one, too. In my mind, I've avoided it for over a year, except the one albie trip. Now, it's official.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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I believe Tecate Beer is the sponsor of the Baja 1000 If someone contacted them, they could possibly put on some pressure in the right places.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
The chances of a true "grass-roots level" boycott happening are slim and none. |
Probably true. At least as a movement by grass-roots individuals. Americans in cases such as this have three lethal faults. We don't learn from
other's misfortune, we have no solidarity and we quickly forget. It will take group effort to get this ball rolling and at this point, the surfers
are as close to that as we have. Perhaps we should start supporting them.
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Denaca
Junior Nomad
Posts: 47
Registered: 7-10-2006
Location: Berkeley
Member Is Offline
Mood: Indigo
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Point on the buffalo: the same could be said of nosotros los del norte and our migration to Baja.
Regarding los ladrones, maybe a massive letter/email/phone barrage to point out that visitors do spend a lot bucks in Baja and, who knows, word gets
around and maybe there's a boycott to send another message. That message should include the harassment on the part of those Tijuana chotas (cops) as
well.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Mexican officials are totally aware of the problems, they experience them too. And I can attest are painfully aware in a way that foreigners are not,
here people have even less faith that change for Mexico is possible, that trait is an American concept not shared by many outside the USA.
Mexicans are looking toward outsiders to demonstrate the courage and know how to challenge the corruption. To Mexicans resolving a crime promptly, the
right way is something so miraculous its almost frightening. The tools include, internet, photography, video and detailed stories which can be printed
in places anonymously and demonstrate the corruption in detail in order to allow prosecution of corruption.
Prosecution requires jail time. We all know what a big expense that is as we have more jails in the US than anywhere in the world. Mexico doesn't have
those resources either.
Basically, Mexico is totally corrupt, there is little but corruption. That is the system. There are almost no people willing to stand up for whats
right because they would be killed by the bad guys. They say for every 100 pesos earned, 40% goes to pay off corruption and theft while 20-30% goes to
the government for taxes so, that leaves 30% to pay for food, housing and miscellaneous.
Mexico can't change itself and most likely never will.
The truth is everything we love about Mexico is still here. Boating is nice, climbing and hiking is nice, playing in the ocean is nice and the
majority of people are warm and pleasant. Its just the bad guys get in the way sometimes.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Mexican officials are totally aware of the problems, they experience them too. And I can attest are painfully aware in a way that foreigners are not,
here people have even less faith that change for Mexico is possible, that trait is an American concept not shared by many outside the USA.
Mexicans are looking toward outsiders to demonstrate the courage and know how to challenge the corruption. To Mexicans resolving a crime promptly, the
right way is something so miraculous its almost frightening. The tools include, internet, photography, video and detailed stories which can be printed
in places anonymously and demonstrate the corruption in detail in order to allow prosecution of corruption.
Prosecution requires jail time. We all know what a big expense that is as we have more jails in the US than anywhere in the world. Mexico doesn't have
those resources either.
Basically, Mexico is totally corrupt, there is little but corruption. That is the system. There are almost no people willing to stand up for whats
right because they would be killed by the bad guys. They say for every 100 pesos earned, 40% goes to pay off corruption and theft while 20-30% goes to
the government for taxes so, that leaves 30% to pay for food, housing and miscellaneous.
Mexico can't change itself and most likely never will.
The truth is everything we love about Mexico is still here. Boating is nice, climbing and hiking is nice, playing in the ocean is nice and the
majority of people are warm and pleasant. Its just the bad guys get in the way sometimes. |
And I, for one, think you can take that to the bank.
Thanks for that down to earth deduction Gnukid.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Its just the bad guys get in the way sometimes. |
Once is too often but, it's becoming epidemic.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Mexican officials are totally aware of the problems, they experience them too. And I can attest are painfully aware in a way that foreigners are not,
here people have even less faith that change for Mexico is possible, that trait is an American concept not shared by many outside the USA.
Mexicans are looking toward outsiders to demonstrate the courage and know how to challenge the corruption. To Mexicans resolving a crime promptly, the
right way is something so miraculous its almost frightening. The tools include, internet, photography, video and detailed stories which can be printed
in places anonymously and demonstrate the corruption in detail in order to allow prosecution of corruption.
Prosecution requires jail time. We all know what a big expense that is as we have more jails in the US than anywhere in the world. Mexico doesn't have
those resources either.
Basically, Mexico is totally corrupt, there is little but corruption. That is the system. There are almost no people willing to stand up for whats
right because they would be killed by the bad guys. They say for every 100 pesos earned, 40% goes to pay off corruption and theft while 20-30% goes to
the government for taxes so, that leaves 30% to pay for food, housing and miscellaneous.
Mexico can't change itself and most likely never will.
The truth is everything we love about Mexico is still here. Boating is nice, climbing and hiking is nice, playing in the ocean is nice and the
majority of people are warm and pleasant. Its just the bad guys get in the way sometimes. |
As painful as it is to write. DITTO. 
I think we all realize what the Kid is saying, but I just love the place so much. The people are so kind and genuine. The bad is just so hard to
overlook.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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Thanks bajaguy--I sent a copy of the post to both addresses.
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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I know exactly how you feel Minnow.......
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Anxious to get south
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
Just what will they do with Mcmillin's Race car, it has to be very very recognizable even if painted? |
The story read that it was a Weekend Warrior Toyhauler. I don't think they had a race car in there.
But the article did say they were forced to disconnect the trailer.
They did set out on foot though, wonder what happened to the trailer?
And what do the McMillans say about all of this when their own trailer is involved?
Nothing mentioned in Andy McMillans post on razedesert.com.
[Edited on 11-20-2007 by BajaWarrior]
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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MrsFDT
Junior Nomad
Posts: 86
Registered: 5-1-2006
Location: State of Confusion
Member Is Offline
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So lets do something...
I read this incident with the family from the original message board it was posted on and I really dont know how to react.
Im angry, scared and saddened by all that has been going on.
I believe that a slow boycott has already begun. People are too afraid to cross the gauntlet and it has taken it's toll. The blatent way in which
these crimes are escalating is whats so scary about it all.
I think the idea of getting the Secratary of tourism on the show is a good one and I truly believe that we can get him to respond, but there is a
catch. We have had other people from the office on the show over the last year, but the big fish doesnt want to come unless there is big bait or at
least thats how the office has responded in the past.
FDT does have an Avenue to get to the Sectratary's ear, as he has friends in certain positions, but tourism being a politacal type office, what they
want is to see numbers. The larger the number the bigger the issue.
If you guys send Fernando all your emails, complaints and horror stories, Im absolutely sure he can poke a needle in there and make someone look this
way.
There was a meeting today and many of the incidents were discussed. This I know, because a friend of Fernando's who was in attendnce, called during
the meeting this morning for some info about another topic he had forgotten to take. This same friend had the printed email conversations with
fernando about this robbery and a couple other reports to show the gravity of the situation. (yes, I do easdrop sometimes, sorry honey)
Calling in favors is the way it works around here. These certain people/friends arent that small of fish in the tourism arena, So an ear with the new
Secratary of tourism isnt totally impossable.
With a folder or two full of letters directed at the Secratary, he may have no choice but to respond and it would give Fer just the leverage he needs
to get him to respond on the air or otherwise.
When I say letters directed at: I mean addressed to him directly!
"Dear Mr. Secratary of Tourism......"
If anything I know Fernando CAN get them on his desk, one way or another.
Just a small note while im on the subject. This has been a large topic discussion with Fer his amigos (ive read the emails, heard the phone
conversations) and they are all very aware of whats happenning and have said, in one fashion or another, the big wigs are running scared about the
losing more tourist dollars. If there is ever a time to slam them with this, it's now, while the new guy is fresh and eager to create an impression.
In all honesty I get the impression they really arent too sure of how or what to do, but know something has to be done.
Send as many emails as you can to fernado@ultimatebaja.com
There are never any guarantees as this is a whole new office, but if they are scared I think that, in itself, is a huge motivator.
(Just wanted to add something someone brought to my attention. Any email or corespondance will be completely anonamous. He would need volume of.. not
names or email addresses. All would be presented with complete anoninimity and not accociated with this board or any other.
The point would be to get the person to go on air and respond live to any questions you all have and nothing more.)
[Edited on 11-21-2007 by MrsFDT]
Following FDT wherever the Baja wind takes him.... That is, if its going in the same direction I am.
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