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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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yes i know all about it........sadly that was one of our Flying Sams members and a load of medicos from last weekend's trip. The pilot had a problem
with her landing......but it could have been a lot worse based on what transpired - and no one was hurt.
the plane has to be disassembled and trucked out now. too bad, another friend of mine used to fly that plane a lot, he is a friend of the owner, a gal
based at my home port, KDVT.
i'll limit my discussion with this on an open forum..........but when next we quaff at la jungle............i'll regale you with the inside dope!! 
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8807
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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i'm glad you didn't do THAT when you flew me on thanksgiving
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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haha!! her 206 has gear that is always down and WELDED!
what you have to worry about with my bird is that the gear comes DOWN when you want it to!
oh, and it has to be trucked out because the prop strike requires an engine tear down and inspection.....can't do that at Oscar's shop!
glad i don't have to deal with the insurance claim....
i can hear them now...."Lucy, juve got some splainin' to do!!"
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Is that a 206? Looks like a 182.
Anyway it looks like your standard big Cessna nose gear collapse on landing.
The big Cessnas won't tolerate much improper landing technique when it comes to the nose gear.
I know this because I've been training in a 182 and the insurance company requires a minimum of 10 hours of Pilot in Command prior to allowing rental
of the aircraft. I have about 4 hours of dual(with instructor) time now
I think we can all see why.
It's super important to keep the weight on the main landing gear on landing. This is true of most aircraft but especially so of a fully loaded big
Cessna.
Perhaps there was a bounce and then a porpoising action that allowed the nose gear to touch first. Add a little power and keep the nose up with a
little back pressure on the control yoke on the bounce. Touch down mains first and hold the nose gear off as long as is practical.
It's possible that there was no flare on landing which could collapes the nose gear also.
Flare is raising the nose just prior to touchdown. It's required.
If it's a fixed gear Cessna the gear will not collapse without reason.
Why not just pull the engine and truck it to the states for inspection and overhaul? A lot easier than pulling the wings and tail off. The nose gear
repair could be done in the field with simple sheetmetal tools.
Is the firewall damaged ?
Okay I googled. The three-bladed prop is a dead giveawy that it's a 206. Ofcourse Capt Mike is right again.
[Edited on 12-13-2007 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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hi fishbuck - you got it pretty right.
too fast, to much RW eaten, porpoised, dove hard , nose and prop dart into the dirt.........ouch!!
the problem with pulling the engine is then you have a plane not in the USA and basically not in one piece - no hangars at serenidad. Radios,
instruments....all will disappear = no insurance co. will accept the liability - pulling the wings and trucking it out is covered with some
limitations and the normal routine with these types of "incidents" 
it all needs to be repaired in USA under AI supervision.
that's my 5 accident to see at Serenidad. My neighbor has seen 7.
i wasn't there this one. but seen plenty. couple a gear ups too.
She's just lucky it stopped before they all went into the drink!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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That's a shame! Glad they are okay. Sounds like a wild ride.
I bought and disassembled a c-150 a couple years back. I pulled the wings and tail and rolled it into the back of a big U-haul truck.
My dad was an IA and had a shop so we repaired some corrosion it had and rebuilt it. Sold it and made a couple of bucks.
Oh yeah, they should have made a go around. Which I'm sure they know by now.
[Edited on 12-14-2007 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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for sure - the go around was the ticket when after using up 1/2 the RW they were not touched down!! and going fast fast fast!!!!!!!!
rule one on landing: set up a stabilized approach and on the correct speed for conditions present after turning final and well before crossing the
threshold.
Rule 2: refer to rule one.
rule 3: if rules one and two cannot be met....GO the EFF around!!!!!!!!!!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3779
Registered: 2-9-2004
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fishbuck - are you back?
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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ha!! only if yur a blue angels or T bird piloto!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Vince
Nomad
Posts: 445
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Coronado
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Serenedad is usually pretty safe to fly in/out of. In my 33 years of flights in and out, I've only seen one fatality and that was a theif who stole a
twin (belonged to Richard Long) during the night and flew right into the mountain immediatly above town, killing two. Pilot error. There probably
have been more. There have been many minor mishaps, though.
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Mexray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1016
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: California Delta
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baja Time
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Years ago...
...I flew as crew on the old SP2E (had 2 turning [props]and 2 burning [jets] on the same aircraft), sub chasing birds in the Naval Air Reserve...
I was the lead Mech in our crew, and got to play with the throttles when we were on long patrols...fun stuff, when someone else was paying for the
fuel!
Anyway, My regular Pilot told me one time that when landing, those old SP2E's were good for about 2 'bounces' coming in, and on the 3rd, the tire
would usually 'blow' and could ruin your whole day! These planes weighed around 70K lbs as I remember, and a good few bounces really gets to the
undercarriage.
I got 'loaned' out to another crew one day, and it just so happened the 'pilot' was going up for a check ride, as he'd been away from the SP2E's for a
few years...we headed from Alameda NAS down to Moffit Field NAS for some 'touch and goes' to see if the pilot still remembered how to get home!
Sure enough, as we came in for our first landing and go...we made that first fateful 'bounce', and the memory of my pilot's warning flashed in my
brain! As we rose from the strip, the graceful leap of a dolphin came to mind as we performed 'bounce' number two! The dolphin in my mind again rose
for a breath as we also 'leaped' above the strip and quickly came back to earth for a 3rd time!
BLAM!!! Sure enough the nose wheel had had enough abuse and blew right through the sidewall of the tire! We had enough air speed to remain aloft as
the pilot jammed the throttles full head and we lifted away from Moffit Field to collect our thoughts! Moffit was the local base for the regular
Navy's P3 Orion sub chaser's, and they got a big kick out our small bit of excitement that afternoon!
This being a check ride, the instructor flying in the RH seat was not supposed to interfere unless necessary, so it was up to the pilot to figure out
what to do now....He decided that we should fly north to Travis AFB as they have a nice long runway to work with...as we got in the neighborhood, I
was listening in to the 'traffic' with Travis' tower...."Navy xxx, understand no nose wheel...do you wish to have some foam put down...." Our pilot,
"yes, could you foam it all"....Tower "(silence)...Ah, Navy xxx, do you know how long the runway is here at Travis?"... Pilot "yes sir, is that a
problem?"....Tower "Navy xxx, we suggest you go back to Alameda and have them foam all of their runway!!!"
We then turned south to head back to our 'barn' at Alameda NAS...by then our pilot had been educated to the point he realized the error in his ways
regarding the image of five miles of foamed runway at Travis! The sun was disappearing behind the hills of San Francisco as we twiddled our thumbs
over the bay waiting for the ramp gang at Alameda to foam a couple hundred yards of the strip for us to touch down into...as it happened, we made a
perfect landing, keeping the nose high until we reached the foam, and gently lowered our 'flat' into the whipped cream without incedent...however,
I've never seen our crew leave that aircraft so fast as that day after we came to a 'full stop'!!!
For those that don't know, the wheel rims used on most aircraft are made out of magnesium, and will burn with intense, self sustaining heat when
ignited by rubbing against the coarse surface of a landing strip...usually resulting in the complete loss of the aircraft!
I don't think our 'pilot' passed his check ride, and was probably back to 'flying' a desk during the balance of his Naval Reserve career, at least I
never saw him again!
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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THX.
A fine tale, Mexray. Thanks for reminiscing with us!
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
fishbuck - are you back? |
Back from Asuncion? I didn't go. My trip was subject to if my broken collarbone was healed enough and it's not.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Fishbuck:
First time Pilots going to Cessna 182's made me a lot of Money when I was in the Aviation Accident Investigation Busines in the 60's and 70's.
Lots of Firewall damage from Hard Landings.
May I suggest something that will help you for the rest of your Flying years.
Go to you Local Bird Shop, get about 20 hours in a couple of Taildraggers!
Land that 182 like a Taildragger and you will not have anymore Problems. Also go over to your nearest Glider Outfit and do about 5-10 Hours.
It will make you a Better Pilot.
Mexray: Your story brought back some Memories as I was a Flight Engineer{Plane Capt.} after coming back from Korea- Flying out of North
Island.FAETUPAK.
One day took a Crew up to Alemeda to pick up a P2V that had just been overhauled. A Mustang Named Sandusky was the Pilot. We took off and that Sucker
Feathered one Engine and did a Slow Roll under the Bay Bridge!
Nobody ever said a Word!
I'll take a 170 B over all others for Baja Travel. Course I was never in a Hurry during the Early years in Baja.
Skeet/Loreto
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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ahhh............. that's the life man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Pomp:
When we had the 950,000 Acre Fire in the Panhandle two years ago, I got to see him in Action. I went out to see if I could help and was near a Large
Feedlot when Fresh Smoke came up nearby. All of a Sudden I swas the 180 come over and spot the Fire, in 2 minutes the Tankers rolled in and the
Feedlot was saved! His Talent did the Job.
If my recollection is right he flew some of the same Area with Jimmy Smith.
There is one other thing that I would recommend to all new Pilots.
Go to Minden, get a good Instructor in Mountain Flying, get a chance to Soar in the SierraWave out of Bishop.
I have been surprised in a couple of trips in Baja Sur with Like Conditions. from Bay of Los Angeles to Sta. Rosalilla when the West Winds are over 24
Knots.
Hey Mike, Maybe we should start a Flying Stories Thread. Some of the old Stories may help a New pilot going to Baja.
I don't want to Hijack a Thread, might get Banned!
Skeet/Loreto
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Mountain flying
Contact your local Civil Air Patrol Squadron and ask when the next "Mountain Fury" training program will be presented.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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O.K. Pomp! I have been doing research on all of the Fatals I investigated. This one was not a Fatal!!
One Day a Lowtime Pilot took a V-Tail Beechcraft out of Portland or Troutdale with his Girlfreind for a Sightseeing trip around Mt. Hood Oregon.
Entered a Cloudbank, lost control, next thing he remembered he looked back and observed the Ruddervators seperate from the Fuselage, went into an
inverted Spin toward the Ground. Shortly fegore Impact the Engine dislodged completely out of the Nacelle. Aircraft went on down, light as a ?Feather
into the Top of a Tree next to a Logging Road.
The only Injury was when the Pilot loosened the Female"s Seatbelt and she Skinned her Head on the Panel when she fell!!!
Engine coming out saved their Lives.
If no one beleives this I will supply the NTSB Report Number.
Next Story:
Japan Airlines Crash Landing in the Water on Approach to San Francisco.
November 22 , 1968
Skeet/Loreto
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Cap
Nomad
Posts: 202
Registered: 4-20-2007
Member Is Offline
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i can't get the pics, and want more stories Skeet.
[Edited on 12-19-2007 by Cap]
Fly low, land on roads.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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hey Cap! = where yer bean?
what's happenin wit the vid??
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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