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Author: Subject: HOW TO (DRIP or SPRINKLER) IRRIGATE your Baja garden
bobw
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[*] posted on 6-20-2008 at 06:32 AM


The MP Rotators have stood up very well in the real world. They were extremely well designed by a company that specialized in agricultural irrigation where efficiency = $$$.

I work in the business and have had very few problems with them. I'll be putting 1100 of them in the ground in the next month, so that gives you an idea of how much faith I have in them.
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[*] posted on 6-20-2008 at 07:02 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
these "new generation" sprinklers seem to have ALOT of moving parts
with our REALLY hard water how would these hold up?

i kinda of disagree with davidk about the sprinkler valves...

i've used the "cheap" $12 anti-siphon valves from home depot for years and they hold up...

the only thing i've had go out would be the selonoid (on a VERY few) years later and that's just a screw in "easy fix"

david is a professional and MUST guarentee his work so he uses the BEST and most expensive

for us "simpletons" we can easily use the cheaper "off the shelf" items to grow our plants

you really don't need to spend a fortune on sprinklers to water...


Thanks for your input Bob & Susan... I pay $14.50 for the better Rainbird ASV-100 valve... and I think that even a walk in home owner wouldn't pay much more if they go into a sprinkler supply store. It's just that Home Depot type places really mark that one up ($25 ish) to make it seem that much better than the $10-12 'cheap' valves. It is that much better, but for $5 or less additional, isn't that worth it?

Now the cheaper valves when used under low pressure will last a long time and I have seen them even under high pressure working for years... However, I have also seen them fall apart when the better valves will keep on trucking.

Nothing is perfect, mind you... and even the 'good' valves can fail. I have repaced cracked anti-siphon caps on both types of 'good' valves (Rainbird ASV-100 and Hardie/Irritrol #311)... but I have seen many more failures on the cheap valves.

About the MP Rotator "moving parts"... you would be surprised... it uses a viscous fluid instead of gears to slow the rotation. from the web site:

PROVEN DURABILITY & RELIABILITY
Rotator® Technology proven in demanding agricultural conditions since 1987
One moving part
Patented "double-pop" flushes on start-up and shut-down without increasing spray head flow-by

Yup, ONE moving part!




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[*] posted on 6-20-2008 at 07:23 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by bobw
The MP Rotators have stood up very well in the real world. They were extremely well designed by a company that specialized in agricultural irrigation where efficiency = $$$.

I work in the business and have had very few problems with them. I'll be putting 1100 of them in the ground in the next month, so that gives you an idea of how much faith I have in them.


That is great to hear! Yes, the MP Rotator was developed for agriculture over 20 years ago. It was about 6 years ago when Nelson Irrigation's Walla Walla Sprinkler Company started to market and develop more models for the landscape irrigation industry.

Last year, Hunter Irrigation purchased that part of the company and now makes them right here in my area (San Marcos) and you can find MP Rotators everywhere Hunter sprinklers are sold. Hunter also developed a new pop up and shrub body with both a anti-drain check valve and a 40 PSI regulator built in just for the MP Rotator... The MPR-40.

While an MP Rotator will work at 25 PSI- 55 PSI, 40 PSI is ideal for the maximum radius and 30 PSI will permit the shortest adjustment of radius.

At 40 PSI, the MP1000 will go 14', the MP2000 will go 20', and the MP3000 will go 30'.

Use the Hunter Institutional pop up with a 30 PSI regulator built in if you need to reduce to 8' on the MP1000, 13' on the MP2000 or 22' on the MP3000... the shortest each can be adjuted to throw.

The MP stands for 'matched precipitation' and that means that all MP Rotator models can operate on the same zone and each will have matched output of water no matter if adjusted to minimum distance, set from 90º-360º or otherwise.

Do see the web site for more details... feel free to ask me how to use them for your lawn, slope or planter area.

I am installing 42 of them today in Vista... replacing sprays that don't cover the areas they were originally installed by the homeowner to cover.

[Edited on 6-20-2008 by David K]




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[*] posted on 6-20-2008 at 09:05 AM


how much do the roto heads cost???

i JUST paid and imported about
100 regular sprinkler (cheap plastic) heads
for $.57 usa each

i feel these may last longer because of the harder water here in mulege

they will not last forever though but...
i thing 10 years is a satisfactory time for the $.57 investment

oh yea david
that is a GREAT price for the valves BUT...what do you charge the customer???:o:o

[Edited on 6-20-2008 by Bob and Susan]




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[*] posted on 6-20-2008 at 10:47 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
how much do the roto heads cost???

i JUST paid and imported about
100 regular sprinkler (cheap plastic) heads
for $.57 usa each

i feel these may last longer because of the harder water here in mulege

they will not last forever though but...
i thing 10 years is a satisfactory time for the $.57 investment

oh yea david
that is a GREAT price for the valves BUT...what do you charge the customer???:o:o

[Edited on 6-20-2008 by Bob and Susan]


The MP Rotator is priced a lot less than traditional rotors, a bit more than spray nozzles? Contact your Hunter dealer for your costs. They fit right into the inexpensive spray pop ups (like Rainbird 1800, Toro 570-P, Hunter Pro or SRS) or shrub adapters (like Rainbird PA-8, Toro 570-S). Other sprinklers that throw 20'-30' have complex gear drives, adjustments, nozzle trees, internal or external moving parts...

The cheap impact or spray sprinklers do not save water... and that is the emphasis of this post. The less water that flows through drip or sprinklers, the more a Baja home can cover (with limited water supply)... also they will be failing rather soon.

Let me put it this way, your plants are the main investment in a landscape or orchard... So, why would you use the cheapest sprinklers or products... when it is the irrigation that keeps your plants alive!??

As far as what is the charge for installation... this is supposed to be a 'how to' advice, and 'help' post, not a classified ad for a business service.... You are not in San Diego County, anyway.

Remember when getting an estimate for the cost of a new valve installed, it includes the labor, one or more trips to your property and the supply store, time to and from said locations, buying the valve, two sch. 80 risers, connecting to the water supply line, PVC parts and cement, teflon tape, dri splice (weather-proof) wire connectors, testing through the controller, and a one year workmanship guarantee... if the installer knows his stuff and does it right! Oh, and remember, the installer has expenses to do business like a vehicle, extra labor sometimes, insurance, taxes, etc.


[Edited on 6-21-2008 by David K]




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[*] posted on 6-21-2008 at 07:13 AM


yea...and what about digging the trenches:lol::lol:



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[*] posted on 6-21-2008 at 07:21 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
yea...and what about digging the trenches:lol::lol:


Maybe that's one reason I like drip systems... no need to bury the lines (can be hidden by mulch, bark, plant growth) unless you have coyote issues (mentioned above).

Heck if it wasn't for trenching sprinkler pipes, it wouldn't seem like work, at all!!:lol:




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[*] posted on 6-22-2008 at 09:04 AM
SPRAYS?


We have covered drip systems, that can be used for shrubs, trees, planter beds and vegetable gardens.

We talked a bit about MP Rotators, the super efficient low gallon sprinkler for areas or spacings 8' to 30' wide and for 4'-5' wide strips over 10' long.

That leaves the areas less than 8' wide that are not long strips... or places that you can use the standard spray sprinklers:

Sprays come in several models based on distance and pattern (shape of the area it covers, or arc). Always use the model closest to what is needed for the area.

Sprays from Rainbird, Hunter, Toro, etc. are available in 5', 8', 10', 12', 15', 18' radius/ throws (or near those numbers).

Do not buy a 15' nozzle for an 8' wide area thinking all you need to do is screw down the adjustment... the droplet size for a 15' area is bigger than a 8' nozzle droplet and you will only be disappointed in the coverage.

Patterns come in 90º (Quarter Circle), 120º (Third), 180º (Half), 240º (Two Thirds), 270º (Three Quarters), and 360º (Full Circle)... and for odd shaped lawns there are the VAN or Variable Arc Nozzles in the various radius models... Rainbird has them in 4', 6', 8', 10', 12', 15', and 18' throws... You simply twist the adjustment ring to set the pattern you needs from 1º to 360º. Toro, Hunter and other sprinkler companies also offer adjustable arc nozzles.

Remember to never mix a spray sprinkler with a rotor type sprinkler on the same zone! Spray use a lot more water per square foot than does a moving sprinkler... About 3 times more! Sprays run for 10 minutes and are applying the same volume of water as a rotor running 30 minutes.

The MP Rotator is perfect when you have a small piece of lawn that is attached to an otherwise wide area with rotors... since the MP Rotator has the 1000 series (8-14'), Corner (45-105º), and 4-5' strip models that have the percipitation rate of big rotating sprinklers (Hunter G type, Rainbird rotors, Toro rotors, impacts, etc.).

Always insert the filter under a spray nozzle (a filter comes with it)... to reduce the chance of clogging and to allow distance reduction... since the distance screw mates with the filter to reduce of shut off the spray nozzle. MP Rotator filters come attached, so no forgetting to use a filter!

After any sprinkler or drip line installation, flush the system to clear out any dirt or other stuff in the pipe or tubes. For sprinklers, flush before inserting the filters and nozzles. For drip lines, flush after inserting emitters.

Use personal observation to adjust run times and frequencies for your area and plant needs.

Here is usually where we start:

Grass uses more water than other plants, so your lawn zones typically will be set for 10-15 min. for sprays and 30-45 min. for rotors. Planters (shrubs, trees, etc.) set 5-10 min. for spray and 15-30 min. for rotors....

Drip system: 30 min. minimum (raised planter beds) to 2 hours, typical max. Your plants will indicate if they are getting enough... start high and work down.

In cooler (but dry) months, watering 1-2 times a week may be enough and in extreme heat watering every day may be necessary to replace the water plants transpire.

2-3 times a week works well most of the year around here (Southern California coastal). Baja California has almost every climate in the world... so learn your area for the right amount of water to apply! 'Smart' controllers are available now that have a weather station that constantly monitors the climate. Plant, soil, slope, irrigation type, and latitude details are programmed into it so the controller can automatically adjust all year long... a rain switch is included that stops watering in wet weather. :light::light::light:

Pretty cool huh?

I hope this was interesting for some of you... please ask questions if I can help you with your Baja home irrigation needs!




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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 04:21 PM


Maybe a good time to bump this up for review... being near summertime and all!

Have a beautiful landscape or healthy garden and grove of trees with water saving drip irrigation or MP Rotator sprinklers!

A 'smart' controller (one that automatically adjust irrigation to the weather conditions and sun's location) can also save you money, time and water! See http://smartline.com




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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 04:27 PM


David K. What's the best sprinlker for small plots of grass, less than 30' in diameter?:?: Thanks.:D
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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 04:35 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
David K. What's the best sprinlker for small plots of grass, less than 30' in diameter?:?: Thanks.:D


What are the dimensions (length, width)? MP Rotators in most cases... I will design it for you!




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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 04:43 PM


David K. 50'x50'? Thanks,:D Got a couple sprinklers, but they don't really rotate etc. as advertised.:D
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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 04:59 PM


Well, since this thread came back to life I will share my "baja style" drip irrigation system I just installed yesterday at the Beach House. In Sta.Rosalia in a tiny hardware store, they sell really cool emitters that just pop into 1/2" black mangera for really cheap...they have these neat little dials you can adjust the flow. So we just hacksawed the tubing where we needed an emitter and hooked that baby up to the water tap outside...quick, cheap and simple. i wonder how long till the coyotes find out....I'm gonna use your idea and put a bowel under one so it's always full for the critters. JDtrotter said she saw 2 big coyotes in the yard a few days ago....hmmm....It will be interesting to see if they clog up.
Thanks for inspiring me David....hope it works.




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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 05:06 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by BigWooo
Now that you bring it up...

Do you have any experience with this system:

http://www.rewater.com

If so, your opinions?


Thanks for the link...

I looked over the web site, and it seems to be an installation company based in Chula Vista that uses various products. It is not a product in itself, sold to other installers or home owners.

I could not tell from the photos what the underground emitters were, but they are way big and bulky to have to install... and upon reading, they have a high flow rate (not drip, at all). The trenching for true drip emitterline systems is minimal. The photos of their system show major trenching (at high cost).

I called one of the numbers (there are more than one?) and left a message... asking what the product was.

The controller shown (with their name photo-shopped over the brand logo) appears to be an Irritrol Systems 'Total Control' (good clock, but lacks the latest 'smart' features).

Because the product flow rate is so high, many valves and larger controllers would be needed and that is where the big expense is... over true drip or low volume irrigation.

Using grey water is an iffy thing to do because of local restrictions because of biological hazzards caused... It just isn't alowed in many places.

Would you want your next door neighbor pouring his dirtly laundry or shower water outside for you to become exposed to? Sure, putting it ito the ground, below the surface may reduce the water vapor emissions... But, if a pipe or hose were cut, that polluted water would be flowing all over the surface.

I would be more confident in using a proven product, such as the Netafim Techline CV emitterline with a disk filter for grey water or screen filter for normal water to remove larger particles. I would recommend the emitterline for planters and (although can work) suggest not use drip for lawns... Use sprinklers around the perimeter only (MP Rotators best)... If any problem occurs, then no need to dig up your beasutiful grass to find the problem and repair it.




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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 05:21 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
David K. 50'x50'? Thanks,:D Got a couple sprinklers, but they don't really rotate etc. as advertised.:D


A square area 50 feet wide by 50 feet long would need 9 sprinklers with a 25 foot radius, for ideal head to head coverage.

The MP 3000 adjusted down to 25'... 4 @ 90º in each corner, 4 @ 180º on each of the four sides, and 1 360º in the center.

Total flow at 25' radius is 11.7 GPM. With good water pressure (over 50 PSI) they all could operate on one 3/4" valve. If pressure is low, use 2 valves.

Grass is very fussy... if it doesn't get even water, you will see the color fade from where it gets adequit water to the lean area.




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[*] posted on 5-29-2009 at 05:32 PM


David K. Thanks.:)
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[*] posted on 5-30-2009 at 07:35 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
David K. Thanks.:)


You're welcome... if you need a parts list or where to buy the products, let me know! Also, please measure the lawn dimensions accurately... as that may change the design... and give you a better looking lawn with little or no wasted water!




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[*] posted on 5-30-2009 at 07:59 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by BigWooo
Now that you bring it up...

Do you have any experience with this system:

http://www.rewater.com

If so, your opinions?


Thanks for the link...

I looked over the web site, and it seems to be an installation company based in Chula Vista that uses various products. It is not a product in itself, sold to other installers or home owners.

I could not tell from the photos what the underground emitters were, but they are way big and bulky to have to install... and upon reading, they have a high flow rate (not drip, at all). The trenching for true drip emitterline systems is minimal. The photos of their system show major trenching (at high cost).

I called one of the numbers (there are more than one?) and left a message... asking what the product was.

The controller shown (with their name photo-shopped over the brand logo) appears to be an Irritrol Systems 'Total Control' (good clock, but lacks the latest 'smart' features).

Because the product flow rate is so high, many valves and larger controllers would be needed and that is where the big expense is... over true drip or low volume irrigation.

Using grey water is an iffy thing to do because of local restrictions because of biological hazzards caused... It just isn't alowed in many places.

Would you want your next door neighbor pouring his dirtly laundry or shower water outside for you to become exposed to? Sure, putting it ito the ground, below the surface may reduce the water vapor emissions... But, if a pipe or hose were cut, that polluted water would be flowing all over the surface.

I would be more confident in using a proven product, such as the Netafim Techline CV emitterline with a disk filter for grey water or screen filter for normal water to remove larger particles. I would recommend the emitterline for planters and (although can work) suggest not use drip for lawns... Use sprinklers around the perimeter only (MP Rotators best)... If any problem occurs, then no need to dig up your beasutiful grass to find the problem and repair it.



The owner of the company called me back last night and provided some more detail... Their system is nearly 100% intended for new home construction since the trenching involved is so intensive along with the re-plumbing for the grey water routing to the storage tank. The in line emitters flow 12 GPH each and run for only 2 minutes per zone and is repeated over and over until the volume needed is applied. This surging of water is required to reduce clogging. He said human hair buildup was a big problem with typical filters and suggest media type filters instead (ie. sand).

Anyway, this is not at all of interest or practical use to me or the majority of my clients. Perhaps on trees, but not under lawns...




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[*] posted on 5-30-2009 at 08:33 AM


WoW David,

Thank you for spending time to check that out. I removed my post because I figured it was so obscure you wouldn't have had contact with them. I didn't expect such a thorough response.

Your evaluation is very helpful. Muchas Gracias! :bounce:

It would be installed into new construction. Our water has to be trucked in so we won't have much opportunity to plant trees, or anything else for that matter due to frequency and cost of water delivery that would be required. It would be nice to have a couple of shade trees and some other tropical landscaping that would be too difficult to water otherwise. I'll definitely look into the Netafirm suggestion also.

[Edited on 5-30-2009 by BigWooo]




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[*] posted on 5-30-2009 at 10:23 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by shari
....I'm gonna use your idea and put a bowel under one so it's always full for the critters.


I think that would be considered black water ;)
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