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26thAve
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END THE FREAKIN BUILDING!
People -
Baja is now in a state of capitalistic take over. There are about 6 major planned resorts accoss the Pacific side as we speak. You'd think that this
was influenced by the Mexican government... IT'S NOT! You can thank the influx U.S. tourism and our commercial builders. I'm tellinig you all that
we will really lose something special if we let this happen. Unless you like golf carts buzzing around and like to view the beach from a cyclone
fence, GET INVOLVED IN THE FIGHT! Please check out http://www.surfrider.org/capitol/baja.htm#What%20You%20Can%2... Thanks.
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Anonymous
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I'm getting out my pen now. I believe the tac to take on this issue is that there are quite enough tourist resorts all over the world. What will be
the valuable commodity in this century, is virgin beach. Just as we are now paying a buck a bottle for the drinkable water we took for granted in our
childhoods, I believe that virgin beach will become the ultimate commodity as this century goes on and people will be willing to pay a big premium for
that peace and quiet. - Stephanie
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Anonymous
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Its a lost cause,
Baja has more and more americans, and more americans=development, i dont like it one bit that my land is turning into Florida because of some people
that only see $$$$ in her beauty.
But its simply impossible to stop american capitalism at its glory.
Its so sad.
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Dave
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Grover I was waiting for someone to chime in with some balance. The idea that you or I could dictate to a property owner what he/she could or couldn't
do with their property is elitist. With the exception of the Mexican government all the "freakin" building down here is because that's what the
tourist wants.
The people of Baja (especially BCS)depend on tourism to put food on the table. If Baja were restricted to surfers and ecotourism folks down here would
starve.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Grover I was waiting for someone to chime in with some balance. The idea that you or I could dictate to a property owner what he/she could or couldn't
do with their property is elitist. With the exception of the Mexican government all the "freakin" building down here is because that's what the
tourist wants.
The people of Baja (especially BCS)depend on tourism to put food on the table. If Baja were restricted to surfers and ecotourism folks down here would
starve.
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Oh please!!!!!!!!! here we go again, another american that thinks we would all die if it wasnt for your
tourist dollars, give me a break.
20 yrs ago Baja had virtually no tourism, and people got along fine, i should know, my entire family is from southern Baja and they have been here
since the 1920s.
The reality is that native Baja Californians in general dont live off tourism, they live from fishing, farming, and other things. Tourist came in with
their dollars, and that brought more and more people from mainland Mexico and the US, most of the people living and working at tourist resorts are in
fact NON natives, so dont start with that dream that you are feeding us and stuff, non natives are making money off our land, and they dont care what
happens as long as they make a profit.
The big corporations are in fact the only ones that are making money off our natural resources.
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Dave
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OK...maybe I should have said the people of MEXICO. All that you have said is true.(The exception being that most Mexicans here DO live off the
tourist dollar.) Yes, most of the people who depend on tourist dollars came from the mainland. (Does that make them less deserving?)However the ones
that did don't make a dime from surfers who chase the perfect wave. And what of the large corporations? Where did they get the land to build these
resorts? Could it be that they bought it from the natives?
Jesse I've lived here for six years. I have seen the economic impact of 9/11 firsthand. I live near Rosarito where EVERONE..from the hotel owner on
down is hurting.
P.S. I live here legally. On land purchased from a native.
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Dave
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Well..no question that the big corporation's real concern is profit and not it's employee but how is that different in Baja? Greed is the same
everywhere.
What irks me is the tourist from the States,basking in all that capitalism can render wants to escape to a idealistic land devoid of it's benefits.
Momma in the dirt floor kitchen cooking supper. Dad lazing in the sun sipping tequila with not a care in the world.
The only thing seperating Alta California from Baja is a border, time and a few trillion in development. Maybe all those tourists should pass the pot
and buy the whole place and wall it off. Tear down all the hotels and ship all the cheap labor north...but keep a few of the really poor around for
decoration.
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FrankO
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First off, the Mexican govt. courts tourists religously. Just listen to the radio. Second, w/out power and water this will never happen. We have all
driven by the FONOTUR failures. I really get tired of the "exploitative American" bullchit. By definition I am a tourist. I travel south, fish a
little, spend money locally, chill and just generally have a good time. To avoid offending any locals should I just bring everything w/me so I am not
being condescending? It'd be easy. Someday I hope to purchase a piece of sand so I visit more often. I will do this in eager compliance w/Mexican law.
What are all the farmers going to do when all the aquifers are brine? Just look at the sea water intrusion in San Quintin. I comply w/the nation's
laws I live in . I will do the same in Mex. When I scrape immigrants off the freeway that some P-nche coyote just spread out over a quarter mile I
don't ask whose tax dollars are going to pay for thier care. Mine are. I don't give a chit. I work hard for my money and I don't want some socialist
flock to tell me how I'm going to spend it. Get angry at the Mexican govt. for flocking it's citizens over, not the corporations who will take
advantage of it. I know this is a wide ranging response but there were many issues addressed in this thread. Tear it up! Frank
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by FrankO
First off, the Mexican govt. courts tourists religously. Just listen to the radio. Second, w/out power and water this will never happen. We have all
driven by the FONOTUR failures. I really get tired of the "exploitative American" bullchit. By definition I am a tourist. I travel south, fish a
little, spend money locally, chill and just generally have a good time. To avoid offending any locals should I just bring everything w/me so I am not
being condescending? It'd be easy. Someday I hope to purchase a piece of sand so I visit more often. I will do this in eager compliance w/Mexican law.
What are all the farmers going to do when all the aquifers are brine? Just look at the sea water intrusion in San Quintin. I comply w/the nation's
laws I live in . I will do the same in Mex. When I scrape immigrants off the freeway that some P-nche coyote just spread out over a quarter mile I
don't ask whose tax dollars are going to pay for thier care. Mine are. I don't give a chit. I work hard for my money and I don't want some socialist
flock to tell me how I'm going to spend it. Get angry at the Mexican govt. for flocking it's citizens over, not the corporations who will take
advantage of it. I know this is a wide ranging response but there were many issues addressed in this thread. Tear it up! Frank
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This isnt about Americans, theres Mexican, Spanish, Italian, etc etc companies doing business in Mexico,
and you are right, the Mexican goverment is to blame but so are the corporations, why? because the Pueblo Bonito, the Villas del palmar, the Camino
Reals, the Marina Cabo plaza, and on and on ARE the Mexican goverment.
Just because the Mexican goverment permits it, it doesn mean the corporations cant just run amock and not whats right, even do they are not breaking
any laws, they are guilty of doing absolutely nothing to develop the land in a way where thsi place would still be Baja in 50yrs and not Florida II.
By the way, you have all the right as an individual to do what you want, i have no problem with the people that want to come to retire or live down
here, they are all welcomed, my problem is with the KFCs the Mcdonals, the Sams Clubs and the Melias in our land, i am sure that as individual
investor and future resident of Baja, you wouldnt want Mcdonals to raise a huge billboard right next to your property would you?
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FrankO
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Point taken.
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Dave
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"my problem is with the KFCs the Mcdonals, the Sams Clubs and the Melias in our land,"
I don't want them here either but they are here for a reason. Their customers(the vast majority Mexicans) WANT them here. You think McDonalds would
build a store if nobody came? If we live long enough we will get to see a Starbucks on every corner.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
"my problem is with the KFCs the Mcdonals, the Sams Clubs and the Melias in our land,"
I don't want them here either but they are here for a reason. Their customers(the vast majority Mexicans) WANT them here. You think McDonalds would
build a store if nobody came? If we live long enough we will get to see a Starbucks on every corner. |
I dont think Mcdonald received a single letter from a Baja resident asking
for a restaurant, they came and people bought. But why not built a Mcdonald with an alternative desing? with a more Baja-Mexico related look? after
all they have done the same thing in other places, why not here? why use a desing that you find in the middel of Kansas?
Thats what makes me a bit angry, they have the choice to the same business and at the same time be protective of the look and atmosphere of Baja, but
they dont really care.
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Dave
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"Thats what makes me a bit angry, they have the choice to the same business and at the same time be protective of the look and atmosphere of Baja, but
they dont really care."
They don't care because their customer doesn't care. You would be amazed at what great lengths companies will go to please the consumer. Bottom line
is that the average Mexican, and it is Mexicans by far who patronize these places, don't care enough about protecting their culture/heritage to make
their patronage dependent on the changes that you support. They like the food and they buy it.
Same goes for the tourist. If they didn't want the amenities that the big resorts provided they wouldn't stay there. You or I wouldn't stay there and
we may not like it but unless there are more of us than them(a LOT more) there's nothing we can do about it.
Peace
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FirstFederal
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It's been my observation that things start to get built, then interest and money wans.
Maybe something will be built, but it's not going to be the big development that you may think. It's Mexico, and nothing in Mexico
works as it should.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by FirstFederal
It's been my observation that things start to get built, then interest and money wans.
Maybe something will be built, but it's not going to be the big development that you may think. It's Mexico, and nothing in Mexico
works as it should.
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What exactly do you mean?
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FirstFederal
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I mean exactly that. It will start to get built, some may go into operation then change hands, service will suffer, quality will be intermittent,
prices will be out of line. It (or they) will go in and out of business, over and over.
There is nothing in Mexico that operates as it should. This is not an insult, just an observation of everyday ordinary things there.
You were born to suffer, so suffer and endure.
-- Aztec admonition to the newborn
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Stephanie Jackter
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Jeez, Your Aztec quote is about as fatalistic as they come. Guess that does describe the Mexican reality, though. Nobody seems willing to rise up and
challenge the status quo. Too much of a chance of getting their heads chopped off, I guess.
-Stephanie
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FirstFederal
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Stephanie,
I worked in San Diego at one time where I used it as my .sig at my job. I had a lot of people comment, in basically the same vein. And I agree that
this does sound negative on it surface. I have not looked at it this way. I don't think that things are predetermined by fate and are therefore
unalterable, although they might be. Who knows...
Rather, it gives the basis of life, that it is not easy, hence the reason that we suffer. However we can and do endure. I look at as a message of hope
and an admonition that even though things can look black at times, do not to give up.
That was my view of it.
But in Mexico, it is difficult to challenge the status quo with out suffering.
R/
FirstFederal
[Edited on 2-15-2003 by FirstFederal]
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by FirstFederal
I mean exactly that. It will start to get built, some may go into operation then change hands, service will suffer, quality will be intermittent,
prices will be out of line. It (or they) will go in and out of business, over and over.
There is nothing in Mexico that operates as it should. This is not an insult, just an observation of everyday ordinary things there.
You were born to suffer, so suffer and endure.
-- Aztec admonition to the newborn |
As it should? i guess then you are trying to say it should operate
as it does in the US? but guess what? This is Mexico not the US.
If you dont like it why come down here, stay home and go to Vegas.
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JESSE
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| Quote: |
I mean exactly that. It will start to get built, some may go into operation then change hands, service will suffer, quality will be intermittent,
prices will be out of line. It (or they) will go in and out of business, over and over.
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Lets use for example cabo san lucas, out of all the Hotels there how many would you say are in that situation? feel free to name names because last
time i checked, only 1 was in that position out of dozens.
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