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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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news forwarded - not from me, Punta Arena
I have sad news to share. XXX ZZZ were informed this afternoon (Aug. 13) that every structure on their beach at Punta Arena just south of Mulege, was
burned to the ground, evidently intentionally, yesterday. A group of about 15 part time residents had build a winter-time community on beach over the
last ten years, on rented plots of land. A friend of Davis' had gone over yesterday to water their plants, and had noticed that the beach seemed
deserted, even the full time guard that the little community employed looked like his house had been cleared out. When the same friend went past
today, every structure, every vehicle, boat, shed, everything had been burned to the ground. The structures are far enough apart that there is no
possibility that it was an accident. The friend sent about 20 digital pictures showing nothing left but an occasional charred propane tank or boat
trailer.
Motive at this point is not clear. The owner of the land had informed the residents that this would be their last season that their leases would be
renewed, as she would be putting the land up for sale at some point soon.
I'm not sure to what extent actions like this should influence my visits to Baja. But it certainly is disturbing!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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CaboRon
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Location: The Valley of the Moon
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OMG !!!!!!!!!
My condolances to those who lost their homes.
CaboRon
[Edited on 8-14-2008 by CaboRon]
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
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according to a safe source the renters were told some time ago that the site was sold and they needed to move off. they didn't and well i guess mexico
has it's own brand of pragmatism that may not be as PC as we in America expect in polite company!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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CaboRon
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Location: The Valley of the Moon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
according to a safe source the renters were told some time ago that the site was sold and they needed to move off. they didn't and well i guess mexico
has it's own brand of pragmatism that may not be as PC as we in America expect in polite company!! |
I guess no condolances are needed then ....
Just a big DUH ... what were you thinking 
Oh, I see, they weren't 
CaboRon
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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Is/was that the first small community that you can walk to by following the shoreline "north" from Santispac?
google map link
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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SI ! i theeeeeeenk so. would ju like a free breakfast and listen to a great opportunity to have your own special casita en baja?!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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tsgarcia69
Banned
Posts: 45
Registered: 8-11-2008
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It's because of the Mexican law which gives squatters rights. Even though those people had no leases, they could make trouble for the landowner as
they had possession of the land.
It is not unusual for developers to hire vigilantes to clear out land they intend to develop.
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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I can see it now. Tit for tat. If this was not a consensual burning of homes then any new structure being built by the people who had these old
timer's homes burnt down they too will have their new structures burned down. It is going to be war.
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Santiago
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Registered: 8-27-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tsgarcia69
It's because of the Mexican law which gives squatters rights. Even though those people had no leases, they could make trouble for the landowner as
they had possession of the land.
It is not unusual for developers to hire vigilantes to clear out land they intend to develop. |
Almost all countries have some sort of squatter-rights. If someone occupies a property they do not own with full knowledge of the owner, make
improvements (I guess T1-11 ply counts), and do so for a certain length of time, then some kind of claim can be made. My understanding of the
original post makes this case different: the people had a 'lease', or more likely a rental agreement, and the owner informed them that it would not
be renewed when the time was up. Time is up and the folks did not move. Doesn't mexican law allow the land owner, after proper notices are given, to
remove the improvements in any way they see fit? Can't they forcebly remove them? Does the land owner have an obligation to first remove personal
property such as boats, vehicles, etc. or does everything, the improvements and all personal property belong to the landowner when the time is up.
I have raised these questions before to thundering silence - maybe people don't care or don't know - but this issue will become more and more
important as more people make a little home of some kind in baja on leased land and over the next 10 years it turns into a nice little casa and then
the landowner sells/dies/changes their mind. You would think somewhere on the World Wide Web you could find a simple explaination of the issues but I
can't find it.
And please, no "don't invest more than you can walk away from". This is obvious and is what leads to unpainted T1-11 plywood with tar-paper roofs.
Real nice too look at when it's your neighbor.
And before anyone posts a picture, I do have some tar paper and unpainted ply on mine but it's on the to-do list. Really.
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Mexicali_Kid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 45
Registered: 7-15-2008
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tsgarcia69
It's because of the Mexican law which gives squatters rights. Even though those people had no leases, they could make trouble for the landowner as
they had possession of the land.
It is not unusual for developers to hire vigilantes to clear out land they intend to develop. |
Hire someone to remove squatters? We do it ourselves!
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3499
Registered: 8-27-2003
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Mexicali_Kid: What are squatter's rights in Mexico? What do they have to do and for how long in order to 'earn' those rights? What do you, the
landowner, have to do, and when, to negate those rights? Are you required to inform anyone (squatters or authorities) that you intend to remove them.
What if it's 'ok' with you that someone lives on your property for free while you are letting the land sit fallow. In the USA we have to rent the
land to them for $1 per year - same for you?
Thanks
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Sad news.
Try to put yourself in the land owners position or future buyers. The people were told they had to move this year before this next winter but perhaps
it was confusing and the dates where unclear. They apparently had no ability to do so, since they are not all wealthy nor are their items all
portable-where could they go? I met some of these people heading south looking for other beaches to squat with permanent palapas but there are none?
I suggested they buy land but ocean front land is now way too expensive for most people, of course nothing would be as nice as what they had so they
failed to move on, were unable to, didn't believe they should or felt it would slowly work out. Its very sad but also I think its time to accept that
you can not maintain beach camps forever especially if you are not there on other peoples land regardless of your lease, too many forces come and go
and its an insecure position.
It's quite understandable on both sides of the circumstances and this should be seen as sign of things to come. BCS is no longer cheap, free and easy
living unless you are mobile with limited stuff. Its unfortunate but it seems camper squatters have fewer and fewer places to go where they can stay
for long periods, but if you are mobile and self-sufficient there are options. I am unsure but I think one can argue that beach front arroyos are fair
game in the winter for periods of time. Though I know that they can ask you to move on after a few weeks and then you can return.
Whats so strange is when you fly you see endless beaches on the pacific and sea of cortez so imagining there is no place to go to make permanent camps
for limited budgets seems hard to believe.
Head to the hills!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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That's one way to jack-up the rent! We'll burn you out if you've got any
questions.
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tsgarcia69
Banned
Posts: 45
Registered: 8-11-2008
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In Mexico, if a person occupies a property for 5 years without a legal protest from the owner, he can get legal title to the property. The legal
process to evict a squatter can take years.
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howat
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 7-18-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Retire Feb 2010
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I believe this is the sold property in question
http://www.tierrasdebaja.com/Dev_All_Props.html
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17332
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Try to put yourself in the land owners position or future buyers.
It's quite understandable on both sides of the circumstances and this should be seen as sign of things to come. |
newkid,
hardly justifies arson. civilized people follow civilized eviction procedures. uncivilized people resort to arson. who bought the place? their
first act on taking possession may have been arson of the previous tenants. given the story, i would avoid dealing with either new or old owners, too
much risk in dealing with people that may solve their problems through arson
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tsgarcia69
In Mexico, if a person occupies a property for 5 years without a legal protest from the owner, he can get legal title to the property. The legal
process to evict a squatter can take years. |
where in the world did you here thatthat is the biggest bunch of BS I think I have
ever seen
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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loki
Banned
Posts: 54
Registered: 8-9-2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
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Mood: really happy
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The property at Punta Areana had been for sale and there was a canadian company that had been dealing with the owners back in 2005. I have a good
friend there and this is very sad news indeed.
I guess they did not get the same courtesy as the folks at Santispac Beach got with the notice there.
Mexico is changing and this is another example of how little in the way of rights you have if there is any dispute in regards to lease property. Just
burn it down and the americans will pack up and not fight it.
I want the truth. Do not give me B$
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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allot of it has to do with who you deal with. If you try to save some money and deal with the Devil you WILL get burned.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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I hope that any action taken, if any, by those burned out is some type of legal action. I would hate to see one of them arrange for the burning of
whatever new gets built there.
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