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Dave
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Jews in la Paz?
Today someone told me of a "sizeable" Jewish community in la Paz. He said it was a result of a boatload of refugees fleeing the Holocaust which for
lack of other available ports, disembarked there.
Anyone have any knowledge of this?
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JESSE
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http://www.tribuna.org.mx/presencia/english/english.html
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aldosalato
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Jews in La Paz
Yes there are a few families like Abif and Scholnick. You can notice a few David Stars on shops of XVI Septiembre just before Madero. La Paz was a
very active trading port till 1980.
Anyway La Paz has always attracted foreigners from any part of the world.
It has a much higher percentage of European, Americans and Asian families that moved in the area during last 150 years than most of mainland Mexico.
Probably nowadays the only big communities that are not present are Indians (from India) and Africans.
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Stephanie Jackter
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Correct, Aldo.
I think the spelling is Habiff. And I believe the majority of the members of both of those families have married in and converted to Catholocism.
The observant Jewish community, at least outside of Mexico City, is quite small. And there's a good deal of racism against Jews in Mexico - good
incentive to take on the dominant religion and leave Jewish ritual behind in order to thrive in Mexican society.
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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David K
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"... Jewish ritual..."? Gee Steph, you make it sound like a cult. Jews are members of the oldest religion and are God's chosen people. I doubt if they
easily dump 3,000 years of faith and become Catholics that easily. Dave, please provide some thoughts on this... tonight you are Rabbi Dave!
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Stephanie Jackter
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Oh, David...
My dad was a Jew who lived in Mexico for the last 30 years of his life. And I know members of the Shcolnik family and know people who know the
Habiffs. I'm not talking out of my ass. Are you? Seen any synagogues in La Paz where all the faithful worship???? - Stephanie
[Edited on 5-16-2004 by Stephanie Jackter]
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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David K
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My father is a Jew, too... My question was to Dave. If converting to another religion is so easy (as you make it sound). Then why didn't all the
European Jews convert before being slaughtered by Hitler? I think Jewish people have too high of principles to just convert... But, that's why I posed
the question to Dave. I am not Jewish... But, I sure like the food at the Nueva York Deli!
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Stephanie Jackter
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Dave was asking a question himself!
Being a Jew doesn't make one an expert on Mexican Jewery. But being a Jew who lived a large part of his life in Mexico City, did give my Dad a pretty
good base of knowledge on the subject.
Although Mexico has historically had constitutional seperation of the church and the State, deference to Catholocism as the dominant religion there
has, until recently, never been in dispute. There are a number of pretty exclusive Jewish enclaves in Mexico City that have survived and thrived, but
by and large, it has been easier for Jews to intermarry and assimilate by adopting the dominant religion, especially those that live in other areas of
the country.
But even in Mexico City, there are many families who have changed their names in a bid not to suffer the stereotyping and racist attitudes that are
prevalent against people of the Jewish faith and many with Jewish ancestory who negate that side of the family tree out of the embarrassment the
racist mentality of many makes them feel. Sad, but no less true.
My Dad fraternized mainly with other Jewish Ex-Pats and as a businessman, knew many upper crust Mexicans, and that kind of thing was often a topic of
conversation when discussing the Mexican Jews he and his friends knew.
Feel free to take it or leave it at that, David, but since you equate the word "ritual" with cult activity ,holding up half of this conversation is
probably much like spittin' in the wind anyway........- Stephanie
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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academicanarchist
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Jewish conversion
There is a long history of religious intolerance directed to Hews in Iberia, and Spanish America. In 1492, Isabel, the Queen who sent Columbus,
ordered the expulsion of all Jews who refused to convert. In the late 14th century, there were progroms, organized violence, against Jews. The Jews
who converted became known as conversos, and royal officials suspected that they continued to practice Jewish rituals covertly. Those who left,
primary to Portugal and later to North Africa following similar persecution in Portugal, became known as the Sephardic Jews. One of the primary tasks
of the Spanish Inquisition was to insure that the converso towed the line. This was also the practice in Spanish America. In the late 16th century
members of the Carbajal family, the colonizers of Nuevo Leon in northern Mexico, were hauled before the inquisition for allegedly continuing to
practice Jewish ritual covertly. So, there is a long history of persecution and conversion and forced conversion. Not too hard to understand.
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JESSE
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Now everybody is part Jewish
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academicanarchist
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Listen to Adam Sandler's Song
Adam Sandler discusses this in one of his songs.
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Mexitron
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My girlfriend, well, kind of ex-girlfriend now, is Jewish.....but she has been doing more Christian worshipping than Jewish in the last few years--the
rituals are still practiced, but more from sentiment I think. Many Jewish people convert to Buddhism because it tends to be logical, like Judaism,
yet more practical....in fact they are referred to lovingly as Jew Boos. So I think conversion is more common now as far as the religion goes, but
the culture stays intact out of respect or sentiment or honor.....that's my dos centavos for this topic
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Stephanie Jackter
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"Bujoos" would sound a little more "Baja".....
And that seems to be the prime directive lately. - Stephanie
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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Mexitron
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That's a good one Stephanie!!!
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Dave
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Jew Boos? I think I'll let that one fly. Besides, you can't p*ss off Buddhists, they are too blissed out.
Thanks to all for responding. I had suspected that if there were Jews in la Paz they would no longer be observant and Stephanie has confirmed that.
I wonder if they have retained any ritual practice? The reports of Stars of David have piqued my interest.
Conversos/crypto-Jews are found throughout Mexico, even in parts of New Mexico. Perhaps they fall into this category? If so I would love to talk with
them. I find crypto-Jews and their rituals fascinating.
[Edited on 5-19-2004 by Dave]
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
If converting to another religion is so easy (as you make it sound). Then why didn't all the European Jews convert before being slaughtered by
Hitler? |
David, the N-zis considered Judaism to be a race. It would have made no difference if the Jewish people converted.
This is why I had a prolonged, and at times, heated argument with Margie. She didn't get it and still doesn't.
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capt. mike
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We love mexican jewery
Maybe i'll shop around for some mexican jewery, there seems to be a lot for sale in those roadside stands!!  
[Edited on 5-21-2004 by capt. mike]
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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David K
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??? Nine is nueve ....
New is nuevo/a ... Did I have a typo?
Capt. Mike am I missing something? 
[Edited on 5-19-2004 by David K]
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JESSE
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Dave,
Do you hang out with any of the Tijuana jewish families?
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capt. mike
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no David.... i am!
my spanish spell ckecker!! ha.
once i thot i was right....but i was wrong......would that make me right??!!  
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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