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Author: Subject: San Francisquito Crash/ story and photos
David K
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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 10:01 AM
San Francisquito Crash/ story and photos


Baja Nomad 'soulpatch' emailed me the story and 15 photos taken at the scene... Ken Cooke posted some of his photos in his trip report of last week, as well.
====================================================

A crazy story I thought I would share:

Following are pictures from last Sunday resulting from a fuel starved 1975 King Air 200 Air Ambulance which was originally destined for Los Cabos International to pickup a stroke patient.

Steve and myself were traveling north from Cabo San Lucas on an IFR flight plan at 26,000 feet talking to Mazatlan Center. About 15-20 miles south of my home at Rancho El Barril, I heard this King Air requesting a lower altitude as it had lost its right engine. As panic set in unable to restart the engine, he began asking for vectors to the nearest airport... Mazatlan Center originally suggested Hermosillo then... Guerrero Negro.. As I could clearly see the weather at Guerrero Negro which was overcast, I got on frequency and suggested it was not a good idea.

I then asked Center where he was in relation to my position. Learning that he was only about 10 miles behind me, and that I know the area, I suggested either Rancho El Barril or Punta San Franscisquito. I proceeded to give him coordinates for El Barril and suggested he head straight for it...

Panic then set in for the King Air pilot! His second engine quit leaving him with little options. He noted he was headed for the coastline as he saw no other options. He was losing 2000 feet/minute. Speaking with both him and Center I was able to determine his altitude and position and noted he would make either runway.

After descending out of 26,000 feet and circling back, I finally had him in site and vectored him for the old paved runway at San Franscisquito. He came in a bit hot (140kts) w/ 20 knots on the tail and touched down halfway down the runway... With no reverse thrust... and little runway left... he ended up running off the end and up a good slope hill where at the top he met large ruts which ripped of his landing gear followed by damaged props, flaps and belly.
The two EMT nurses on board were not injured. The pilots suffered bruised egos. We loaded up the occupants and their equipment and delivered them to their base at Long Beach airport.

The result of this crash was much better than one week earlier where a friends King Air 200 departing from an airstrip 100 miles south lost an engine on take off resulting in a fatal crash for the pilot, the sole occupant.

























Photos (3) showing the flight crew have been removed after communicating with Capt. Mike. Thanks for the explaining!

[Edited on 12-7-2008 by David K]




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woody with a view
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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 10:53 AM


what becomes of the plane. does the insurance company have to rush down and claim it before it is scavenged? or is it just totaled as far as recovering it?

those guys were lucky!!!




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 11:09 AM


That plane is waaaaaay to valuable to total, or to scavenge.

Best case, have someone reliable (ahem) stay with it,
hire a trucker to get in there, pull the wings and truck it back,

Two blown (if they are indeed blown) engines will lessen that value, but it is still well worth the effort.

I think several on this board (Beercan comes to mind) have had similar situations, perhaps they can share how they handled the whole deal.
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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 11:12 AM


I'm certainly no expert, and would not want to be in the seat, but if this account is true:

1. Why did the crew seem to be without an adequate plan for this contingency?

2. Why did they land hot (I'm assuming hotter than could have been done) with a tail wind? Was landing other direction more hazardous?

I saw the crash site with the Baja Grande 08 crew. All 9 lives of these cats have been used up in this incident.




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 11:39 AM


"A crazy story I thought I would share: " huh??
:?:
i must say that unless you had the permission of the writer of that once private email and his pictures, posting it here is inappropriate as it is not in the public domain as a function of actions of the initiator.
if i was that ambulance crew or the El Barril resident and owner of the Pilatus i would be incensed over your availing it , story and pictures of people involved, to the general public, especially as an investigation is in process regards the very unfortunate but serious incident including consequences of employment and contracts.

i too have all this data as do a handful of others with whom it was shared in confidence - but no one until now ever thought of placing it here or on the BBP for instance.
you should consider removing this from a public forum or seek permission from the originators.




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 11:47 AM
not sure I agree with you Mike


Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
"A crazy story I thought I would share: " huh??
:?:
i must say that unless you had the permission of the writer of that once private email and his pictures, posting it here is inappropriate as it is not in the public domain as a function of actions of the initiator.
if i was that ambulance crew or the El Barril resident and owner of the Pilatus i would be incensed over your availing it , story and pictures of people involved, to the general public, especially as an investigation is in process regards the very unfortunate but serious incident including consequences of employment and contracts.

i too have all this data as do a handful of others with whom it was shared in confidence - but no one until now ever thought of placing it here or on the BBP for instance.
you should consider removing this from a public forum or seek permission from the originators.


You know that I am a pilot, and you know that my partner was killed crashing our plane near my home.

No one asked permission for the local t.v. channels to run live video of our plane in the orchard, and the coroner carrying my partner out to the hearse.

That plane lays out there, uncovered for God and gringos to see and lament over.

If "soulpatch" has a problem, well, then that is a different story.

Personally, I was very interested, and saddened, by the report, but did not find it inappropriate.
That is about as "public" as it gets..... IMHO
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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 02:09 PM
Mixed feelings ....


A bunch of regret and relief at the same time.

The aircraft now belongs to the Insurance company. They have specialists who handle and deal with this type of problem all the time.
Many people say "the big Insurance boys can stand the loss" , but several articles over the years show that the Aircraft Insurance market is a rather small piece of the total Insurance pie. Most years, it barely breaks even.
Lucky for this time, all survived !




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 04:38 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
"A crazy story I thought I would share: " huh??
:?:
i must say that unless you had the permission of the writer of that once private email and his pictures, posting it here is inappropriate as it is not in the public domain as a function of actions of the initiator.
if i was that ambulance crew or the El Barril resident and owner of the Pilatus i would be incensed over your availing it , story and pictures of people involved, to the general public, especially as an investigation is in process regards the very unfortunate but serious incident including consequences of employment and contracts.

i too have all this data as do a handful of others with whom it was shared in confidence - but no one until now ever thought of placing it here or on the BBP for instance.
you should consider removing this from a public forum or seek permission from the originators.


Mike, read carefully... you quoted the writer of the email, not me... "A crazy story I thought I would share: "...

Obviously this email went out to all his buddies and Frank (soulpatch) was one... Here is what Frank wrote to me:

"Hey David, here is the whole story....... sheesh, if I could only afford to fly in like that I would be there every week!
Only post them if you think they are interesting..... it's up to you since it is a lot of work.
Frank"

Well Mike, I thought they WERE interesting... and on topic and thought you of all people would like to see them (didn't know you already had). There was no confidential notice in the email that was sent around and shared with Frank or me that I am aware of.

What is secret, anyway? This happens, we heard about it and Ken showed some photos of it... At least now the person who guided these boys into PSFO and maybe saved their lives has been able to get HIS story out to everyone (I think that's what he wanted to do from the wording)... As a pilot who did all this photo and report) he would have been the first to be asked to not go public, wouldn't he?

If that man contacts me or Frank and wants this removed, I will... no problem... I was just doing a favor for another Nomad.... okay boss?




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 05:13 PM


DK - i am not your boss. Or anyone else's here.

my point only had to do with issues of privacy and propriety.

if Frank suggested that you post this then it's been cleared i guess. Or he can absorb any fallback from the originators. He knows them so it's his call of course. I would never have published any of it myself without permission, that's all. so i chose not to. my apology to you.

i can only say that if it were me pictured either in the King Air or the Pilatus, or were i the writer of the private email quoted, i would be livid that someone would put any of it up on a public forum without my express ok.
but hey.... we live in the world of the internet now so all becomes fair game.
i choose to operate in the realm of decorum however.
others may simply have a take that all events, private or not, are ok to forward to the world.

as this doesn't harm me, i cry no foul against you. i still don't agree with it though. The guy will be lucky to keep his certificate regardless of what happens to his job. I think he deserves privacy. At least until all the facts are out. No one intentionally takes off with insufficient gas to make their destination, especially on a part 135 charter of this class. there might have been 4 fatalities here.




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 05:19 PM


Quote:
No one intentionally takes off with insufficient gas to make their destination, especially on a part 135 charter of this class.


and if this is found to be the case, the guys should lose their "cert." i say it is a public event and therefore not subject to any privacy expectations.....those pilots sure better be thankful for the other crew getting them to a alternate strip that they should have known was there anyway.....lucky day!




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 05:36 PM


Getting away from that liability/privacy issue, and not being a pilot, I have trouble believing that a pilot in a charter, a medical emergency one yet, will leave for a destination without proper take off procedures, which, I would imagine, will include the fuel situation. Somewhere, it seems to me, something else would have caused those engine failures. And if not, this guy/girl doesn't have any business flying an airplane with anyone else in it but himself/herself.
And, like Bloomberg said, "the book should be thrown at him".




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 05:37 PM


Mike, the "okay boss?" was meant to be respectful, as a friend...

I would be happy to remove this if either Frank or the writer/ photographer requests it...

Unlike others would do, from my experience... see your u2u.




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 05:44 PM
Mike, the guy that sent it to me said no problem...


That is why I didn't send it out right away until I was told it was OK. I would not have even sent it to you awhile ago if it were problematic.....no worries there.
Cheers

Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob
Quote:
No one intentionally takes off with insufficient gas to make their destination, especially on a part 135 charter of this class.


and if this is found to be the case, the guys should lose their "cert." i say it is a public event and therefore not subject to any privacy expectations.....those pilots sure better be thankful for the other crew getting them to a alternate strip that they should have known was there anyway.....lucky day!




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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 05:56 PM


Interesting article, all were very lucky. I think the pilot did a fine job. Who was the pilot of the other plane that guided the the stricken aircraft? He really performed a service.



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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 06:09 PM


hmm.. I didn't see a bike anywhere!

I bet the aircraft mechanic rides a bike to work. :lol:
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[*] posted on 12-6-2008 at 06:10 PM


BTW - I'm glad the pilot was able to get her down safely.
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[*] posted on 12-7-2008 at 08:27 AM


thx DK.
it is assumed a fuel starvation incident, well it was in all actuality but the Q is how and why??
ultimately what happens on any flight lies at the foot of the PIC (FAA speak for pilot in command). It is he who is responsible, as Harry S. used to say, the buck stops there.
so why? and how? and what were the contributing circumstances?
that catagory and class of AC has the range to get to its destination in baja nonstop from socal if properly fueled. it would seem that either there was an error in the fueling process or a mechanical issue kept fuel from the ignitors at some point during the flight causing the in flight emergency.
as a glider he probably had little option for a pattern entry based on wind. and landing to the south means clearing that hill on the north end. if he ended up short on final it would have been carnage as all familiar with the local geography knows.
Going straight in was the right call. the wind sock there is hard enough to see when you are low and slow like i am planning a landing there. Wind direction was his last concern at the time - finding any piece of level real estate was the goal.

there is a true event a few years ago where a large jet liner ran out of gas once because the 1st officer who was charged with checking the fuel loaded on an international stop confused liters with imperial gallons...you guessed it - they used up all their liters when they thought they had plenty of gallons left!! ouch!:(




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[*] posted on 12-7-2008 at 02:39 PM


I feel Baja pilots need to know this info as soon as it occurs. This forum and the Baja Bush Pilots are good ways to get the word out to fellow aficionados who may be planning a similar trip and in doing so may prevent an accident. Regardless of the cause, the pilot did a masterful job making a deadstick landing in the wilds of Baja in a large heavy aircraft with no injuries. He probably knew he would overrun the short runway so he landed downwind so he wouldn't end up in the water. That would have had a different outcome. There seemed to be alot of spectators in the photos, if David hadn't of posted the info, someone else in the area would have. Thanks, David.
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[*] posted on 12-7-2008 at 08:37 PM


Vince-----You are dead-on correct!!! :yes:

What a scary senario--------no power, desending like a rock, airport in sight (thank GOD), but you sure don't want to undershoot the runway, keep speed up so you don't stall, better to over-shoot than under-shoot and end up pancaking into the water, so you land HOT and further down the runway than you would have liked, but you survive and skid off into the sand-----------wow, I would say that he did fantastic, considering the situation.

Well done, I say. And yes, everybody needs to know what happened so that they can 'think about it', and hopefully learn something.

Barry
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David K
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[*] posted on 12-7-2008 at 09:05 PM


De nada Vince, Barry, and others...

I did remove 3 photos after Capt. Mike and I communicated via u2u... as I explained at the bottom of the last photo...




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